Date   
Re: psx power

cmitcham1
 

thanks mark for sticking with me.

i am running o scale.

i am playing with psx boards. the early psx boards had blue screw terminals. current psx boards have green screw terminals. the one i looked at tonight says rev a on the back. on the front it shows a manufacture date of week 44, 2009.

i went down to play with it tonight to have good current data, and of course i could not make it misbehave. i toggled the track power on and off repeatedly while i ran a loco.

i left the loco idling on the rails for several hours and went back down; still no problems.

i am positive that on at least two other days, i had problems as i described before. i guess i am all set now. if it happens again, i will try to gather more details.

Re: psx power

Mark Gurries
 

On Feb 10, 2016, at 12:43 PM, calvin@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
I should have asked more information before …sorry.

What scale are you running? O scale?

10 amp nce with wired procab throttles.
The 10Amp booster cab deal with a lot of locomotives including any high inrush currents.

powershields not real new,
PowerShields or PSX? They are two different products. PSX replaced the original Power Shields. They have the high inrush current control for consistent recovery from a short. The old PowerShields do not. PSX have 4 screw terminal at one end and two terminals on the other end the screw terminals are very big heavy duty.

but green terminal connectors, not blue.
That does not mean anything to me. May mean something that only DCC specialties can explain but at face value is just a color change to me. PowerShields never had connectors. They have solder terminals.

DCC specialties also sells the On-Guard product line which do have connectors and cost less than the premium PSX. They to do not have the high inrush current capabilities that the PSX do. On-Gaurd products that I have seen only have two terminal screw connectors that are black.

So what do you have?

Correct Terminology is very important as you can see.

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Re: psx power

cmitcham1
 

10 amp nce with wired procab throttles. powershields not real new, but green terminal connectors, not blue.


thanks for the help!


Re: psx power

Mark Gurries
 

What DCC system are you using?

On Feb 10, 2016, at 4:56 AM, calvin@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

i was excited to find the psx feature to turn off track power with the dcc throttle. i like to put locos on un-powered track, so i can't short out while getting all the wheels on the rails.


but i find the feature to not  be very robust. when i first poer up the nce system, it will work. but after driving a loco around a few minutes, it will not work. if i cycle power to the dcc system, it will work again.


anybody have better success??


thanks,

calvin.



Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



psx power

cmitcham1
 

i was excited to find the psx feature to turn off track power with the dcc throttle. i like to put locos on un-powered track, so i can't short out while getting all the wheels on the rails.


but i find the feature to not  be very robust. when i first poer up the nce system, it will work. but after driving a loco around a few minutes, it will not work. if i cycle power to the dcc system, it will work again.


anybody have better success??


thanks,

calvin.


Re: Peco Turnouts

Terry <terryintexas7@...>
 

Well Bill as i stated the short wheelbase switchers i have stall on the dead frog of
the insulfrog turnouts

I've corrected this by installing Keep Alives in them

The longer wheel base locos and diesels are no problem

I'm glad you layout runs so good




-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill Aulicino' bill@... [WiringForDCC]
To: WiringForDCC
Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2016 9:13 pm
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: Peco Turnouts

 
Forgive me but I have no idea why you would have problems with insulfrogs. I have over one hundred insulfrog
turnouts on my layout and none have been modified in any way and they all work perfectly. I don’t understand
why anyone would have any problems with them. By the way my layout is completely NCE DCC.
Bill
 
 
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: Peco Turnouts
 
 
In my case  i had 6 insulfrog turnouts left over from a previous layout
after going DCC  the short wheelbase locos would stall on the dead frogs  so i started using all Electro frogs to prevent stalls
Now all my short Wheelbase locos use keep alives to get over the dead frogs

If i had it to do over I'd use all Electrofrogs

At the time 6 turnouts were a big cost to replace But Live and learn


I have 3 insulfrogs in a ladder track arrangement crossing over the mains on both sides of the layout
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Oberst bill@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...>
To: WiringForDCC <WiringForDCC@...>
Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2016 5:23 pm
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: Peco Turnouts

 
OK I stand corrected, but tell me the advantage of mixing Electrofrog's with Insulfrog's. Why mix them? I've read the articles recommending using insulated spacers or and a Polarity switch but that seems like a lot more trouble than just using all Insulfrog's especially in my case when I'm starting to build a new layout from scratch and have the option of ordering either. Thanks for the responses. Bill  . At 08:19 AM 2/9/2016, you wrote:


Bill:

Not sure that is true.  I have electrofrog and insulfrogs running on same layout no problem.  I have the frogs insulated with insulated rail joiners on the electrofrogs per the instructions (this is mandatory or you will get a short) and I am using insulfrog double slips in between the electrofrogs.  No problems what so ever.

I think you got some bad advice from Walthers.  If no, please give their explanation why you can't mix and match.

THX!

Curtris

Re: Peco Turnouts

Bill Aulicino
 

Forgive me but I have no idea why you would have problems with insulfrogs. I have over one hundred insulfrog
turnouts on my layout and none have been modified in any way and they all work perfectly. I don’t understand
why anyone would have any problems with them. By the way my layout is completely NCE DCC.
Bill
 
 

Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: Peco Turnouts
 
 

In my case  i had 6 insulfrog turnouts left over from a previous layout
after going DCC  the short wheelbase locos would stall on the dead frogs  so i started using all Electro frogs to prevent stalls
Now all my short Wheelbase locos use keep alives to get over the dead frogs

If i had it to do over I'd use all Electrofrogs

At the time 6 turnouts were a big cost to replace But Live and learn


I have 3 insulfrogs in a ladder track arrangement crossing over the mains on both sides of the layout

 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Oberst bill@... [WiringForDCC]
To: WiringForDCC
Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2016 5:23 pm
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: Peco Turnouts

 
OK I stand corrected, but tell me the advantage of mixing Electrofrog's with Insulfrog's. Why mix them? I've read the articles recommending using insulated spacers or and a Polarity switch but that seems like a lot more trouble than just using all Insulfrog's especially in my case when I'm starting to build a new layout from scratch and have the option of ordering either. Thanks for the responses. Bill  . At 08:19 AM 2/9/2016, you wrote:


Bill:

Not sure that is true.  I have electrofrog and insulfrogs running on same layout no problem.  I have the frogs insulated with insulated rail joiners on the electrofrogs per the instructions (this is mandatory or you will get a short) and I am using insulfrog double slips in between the electrofrogs.  No problems what so ever.

I think you got some bad advice from Walthers.  If no, please give their explanation why you can't mix and match.

THX!

Curtris

Re: Peco Turnouts

wirefordcc
 

Don,

 

Thanks for sending this out.  I can read my emails on my iPhone, but sending much of a response from one is difficult.  They don’t allow personal email on computers at work and have all the personal email servers blocked.  So the best I can do is either wait until I get home, or hope you or someone else beats me to it.

 

Now we just need to have a chat with the person at Walthers handing out bad info!

 

Allan

 

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 10:54 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Peco Turnouts

 

 

Bill. See Peco turnouts at http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_peco.htm
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 11:01 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Peco Turnouts

Not quite true. You simply need to isolate the frog rails of the Electro frog turnouts with an insulating joined and power the frog with switch. Do not rely on the points to do that.
DonV


> On Feb 8, 2016, at 10:46 PM, Bill Oberst bill@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
>
> I just was informed by the Tech at Walthers Dist that you can't mix
> Peco Insulfrog & Electrofrog turnouts on the same layout. I was
> getting a dead short on some of my yard branches as soon as I laid
> the track using both. I removed the Electrofrog's and installed all
> Insulfrog turnouts and my short problem was solved. Maybe I'm the last
> person to find this out but it caused me to spend a lot of time
> troubleshooting and doing research on the Internet before calling
> the tech at Walthers so I thought I would pass this info along. Thanks Bill .
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Bill Oberst <bill@...>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://www.WiringForDCC.com
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>

------------------------------------
Posted by: "Vollrath, Don" <DVollrath@...>
------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.com
------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

Re: Peco Turnouts

Curtis Hustace
 

Bill:

If you have long locomotives it may not be an issue, However, "IF" you have some really short switchers, a non powered frog may cause that short wheelbase locomotive to stall and then you have to give it a shove to get it going again.  If you have electrofrogs, It can be more troublesome to have  as you then have to power the frog and the not only power the frog, but be able to switch polarity depending on which way the switch is thrown.  Peco switches by their nature are power routing switches.  And in a perfect world they will power the frog by themselves, but after a while if it gets dirty or something gets stuck in the rail and doesn't make a good connection when the switch is thrown, the frog will be dead.   So the safest way is to power the frog when you put it in.  This can be done many different ways, I own Cobalt switch machines and they have a frog polarity switch built into them so I have to run a wire from the switch machine to the frog and it will switch polarity automatically, Tortoise switch machines do this as well.  You can also get a device called a Frog Juicer from a company called Tam Valley Depot.  This will monitor the frog and switch the polarity as soon as it detects a short.  These are nice too!

But as I said, if you have long diesels/locomotives, this may be a moot point and the insulfrogs will suit you just fine.  It is a personal choice on what you may or may not need.

I am not the definitive expert, others I am sure will have good info as well! :)  Good Luck!

Curtis

On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Bill Oberst bill@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

OK I stand corrected, but tell me the advantage of mixing Electrofrog's with Insulfrog's. Why mix them? I've read the articles recommending using insulated spacers or and a Polarity switch but that seems like a lot more trouble than just using all Insulfrog's especially in my case when I'm starting to build a new layout from scratch and have the option of ordering either. Thanks for the responses. Bill  . At 08:19 AM 2/9/2016, you wrote:

 

Bill:

Not sure that is true.  I have electrofrog and insulfrogs running on same layout no problem.  I have the frogs insulated with insulated rail joiners on the electrofrogs per the instructions (this is mandatory or you will get a short) and I am using insulfrog double slips in between the electrofrogs.  No problems what so ever.

I think you got some bad advice from Walthers.  If no, please give their explanation why you can't mix and match.

THX!

Curtris




--
Curtis Hustace
Evansville, IN

Re: Peco Turnouts

Terry <terryintexas7@...>
 

In my case  i had 6 insulfrog turnouts left over from a previous layout
after going DCC  the short wheelbase locos would stall on the dead frogs  so i started using all Electro frogs to prevent stalls
Now all my short Wheelbase locos use keep alives to get over the dead frogs

If i had it to do over I'd use all Electrofrogs

At the time 6 turnouts were a big cost to replace But Live and learn


I have 3 insulfrogs in a ladder track arrangement crossing over the mains on both sides of the layout



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Oberst bill@... [WiringForDCC]
To: WiringForDCC
Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2016 5:23 pm
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: Peco Turnouts

 
OK I stand corrected, but tell me the advantage of mixing Electrofrog's with Insulfrog's. Why mix them? I've read the articles recommending using insulated spacers or and a Polarity switch but that seems like a lot more trouble than just using all Insulfrog's especially in my case when I'm starting to build a new layout from scratch and have the option of ordering either. Thanks for the responses. Bill  . At 08:19 AM 2/9/2016, you wrote:
 

Bill:

Not sure that is true.  I have electrofrog and insulfrogs running on same layout no problem.  I have the frogs insulated with insulated rail joiners on the electrofrogs per the instructions (this is mandatory or you will get a short) and I am using insulfrog double slips in between the electrofrogs.  No problems what so ever.

I think you got some bad advice from Walthers.  If no, please give their explanation why you can't mix and match.

THX!

Curtris

Re: Peco Turnouts

Bill Oberst <bill@...>
 

OK I stand corrected, but tell me the advantage of mixing Electrofrog's with Insulfrog's. Why mix them? I've read the articles recommending using insulated spacers or and a Polarity switch but that seems like a lot more trouble than just using all Insulfrog's especially in my case when I'm starting to build a new layout from scratch and have the option of ordering either. Thanks for the responses. Bill  . At 08:19 AM 2/9/2016, you wrote:

 

Bill:

Not sure that is true.  I have electrofrog and insulfrogs running on same layout no problem.  I have the frogs insulated with insulated rail joiners on the electrofrogs per the instructions (this is mandatory or you will get a short) and I am using insulfrog double slips in between the electrofrogs.  No problems what so ever.

I think you got some bad advice from Walthers.  If no, please give their explanation why you can't mix and match.

THX!

Curtris

Re: Peco Turnouts

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Bill. See Peco turnouts at http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_peco.htm
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 11:01 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Peco Turnouts

Not quite true. You simply need to isolate the frog rails of the Electro frog turnouts with an insulating joined and power the frog with switch. Do not rely on the points to do that.
DonV
On Feb 8, 2016, at 10:46 PM, Bill Oberst bill@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

I just was informed by the Tech at Walthers Dist that you can't mix
Peco Insulfrog & Electrofrog turnouts on the same layout. I was
getting a dead short on some of my yard branches as soon as I laid
the track using both. I removed the Electrofrog's and installed all
Insulfrog turnouts and my short problem was solved. Maybe I'm the last
person to find this out but it caused me to spend a lot of time
troubleshooting and doing research on the Internet before calling
the tech at Walthers so I thought I would pass this info along. Thanks Bill .



------------------------------------
Posted by: Bill Oberst <bill@...>
------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.com
------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



------------------------------------
Posted by: "Vollrath, Don" <DVollrath@...>
------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.com
------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

Re: Peco Turnouts

Craig Zeni
 

On Feb 9, 2016, at 8:19 AM, curtishustace@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:



Bill:

Not sure that is true. I have electrofrog and insulfrogs running on same layout no problem. I have the frogs insulated with insulated rail joiners on the electrofrogs per the instructions (this is mandatory or you will get a short) and I am using insulfrog double slips in between the electrofrogs. No problems what so ever.

I think you got some bad advice from Walthers. If no, please give their explanation why you can't mix and match.
Actually the Walthers explanation is utterly bogus...the person Bill spoke with simply doesn't know what he/she is talking about. It's true you can't treat the turnouts the same but they can certainly happily coexist on one layout. Isolate the frog (with insulating joiners or by cutting the rail) as others have noted...or don't feed power into the turnout from the 'two track' end of the turnout. And, as other have noted, power the frog with a polarity switching device of some kind otherwise one is relying on the point rails to power the frog which can be sketchy.


Craig Zeni
Cary NC

Re: Peco Turnouts

Terry <terryintexas7@...>
 

Yea i agree Curtis  I also use both on my layout




-----Original Message-----
From: curtishustace@... [WiringForDCC]
To: WiringForDCC
Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2016 8:56 am
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Peco Turnouts

 
Bill:

Not sure that is true.  I have electrofrog and insulfrogs running on same layout no problem.  I have the frogs insulated with insulated rail joiners on the electrofrogs per the instructions (this is mandatory or you will get a short) and I am using insulfrog double slips in between the electrofrogs.  No problems what so ever.

I think you got some bad advice from Walthers.  If no, please give their explanation why you can't mix and match.

THX!

Curtris

Re: Peco Turnouts

Curtis Hustace
 

Bill:

Not sure that is true.  I have electrofrog and insulfrogs running on same layout no problem.  I have the frogs insulated with insulated rail joiners on the electrofrogs per the instructions (this is mandatory or you will get a short) and I am using insulfrog double slips in between the electrofrogs.  No problems what so ever.

I think you got some bad advice from Walthers.  If no, please give their explanation why you can't mix and match.

THX!

Curtris

Re: Peco Turnouts

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Not quite true. You simply need to isolate the frog rails of the
Electro frog turnouts with an insulating joined and power the frog with switch. Do not rely on the points to do that.
DonV

On Feb 8, 2016, at 10:46 PM, Bill Oberst bill@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

I just was informed by the Tech at Walthers Dist that you can't mix
Peco Insulfrog & Electrofrog turnouts on the same layout. I was
getting a dead short on some of my yard branches as soon as I laid
the track using both. I removed the Electrofrog's and installed all
Insulfrog turnouts and my short problem was solved. Maybe I'm the
last person to find this out but it caused me to spend a lot of time
troubleshooting and doing research on the Internet before calling
the tech at Walthers so I thought I would pass this info along. Thanks Bill .



------------------------------------
Posted by: Bill Oberst <bill@...>
------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.com
------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Peco Turnouts

Bill Oberst <bill@...>
 

I just was informed by the Tech at Walthers Dist that you can't mix Peco Insulfrog & Electrofrog turnouts on the same layout. I was getting a dead short on some of my yard branches as soon as I laid the track using both. I removed the Electrofrog's and installed all Insulfrog turnouts and my short problem was solved. Maybe I'm the last person to find this out but it caused me to spend a lot of time troubleshooting and doing research on the Internet before calling the tech at Walthers so I thought I would pass this info along. Thanks Bill .

Re: Is the Ammeter Right?

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

I’m not too surprised about your result. Yes it is entirely possible the two locos draw only 0.3 amps total.

Older ‘blue-box’ Athearns and others with the old style open frame motors will draw nearly 1.0 amps apiece or more.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 6:09 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Is the Ammeter Right?

 




I have followed Alan's advice about how to use full wave bridge rectifier to measure DCC voltage and current with a standard digital multimeter.  Thanks so much for this advice.  Both volt measurements seem about right when you adjust for the lost V's with the larger cap. (I measure no drop form the small cap used in the peak measurement circuit.

 

 I am concerned about the current measurement. It may be too low. I first used 4 of the same diodes I used to rectify the volt signal (N1004i (?))  to rectify the DCC wave to measure amp -- but they got real hot so I realized they were not rated for the # of amps coming out of my Digitrax Zephyr throttle --- up to 3.4 amps.  So I bought a Radio Shack rectifier - actually a Vishnay KBU4D - rated at 4 amps.  When I set it up and put two small engines on a small piece of track wired close to the throttle (no buss) and running flat out (wheels spinning) the meter is showing about 0.3 amps -- or about a tenth of the amps that the throttle can give out. ( One engine is a Bachman GE 70 Ton Diesel and the other is an Atlas HO Alco s-2.  Obviously i am modeling HO)

 

Does 0.3 amps sound about right? 

 

I thought there might be a cap in the rectifier that was dropping -- but the spec sheet does no show any.




Re: Is the Ammeter Right?

Puckdropper
 

It's in the ballpark.  Most of the current draw in that setup will be the motor and quite a few model motors draw ~1/4A.

Puckdropper


---In wiringfordcc@..., <jimcubie@...> wrote :

I have followed Alan's advice about how to use full wave bridge rectifier to measure DCC voltage and current with a standard digital multimeter.  Thanks so much for this advice.  Both volt measurements seem about right when you adjust for the lost V's with the larger cap. (I measure no drop form the small cap used in the peak measurement circuit.


 I am concerned about the current measurement. It may be too low. I first used 4 of the same diodes I used to rectify the volt signal (N1004i (?))  to rectify the DCC wave to measure amp -- but they got real hot so I realized they were not rated for the # of amps coming out of my Digitrax Zephyr throttle --- up to 3.4 amps.  So I bought a Radio Shack rectifier - actually a Vishnay KBU4D - rated at 4 amps.  When I set it up and put two small engines on a small piece of track wired close to the throttle (no buss) and running flat out (wheels spinning) the meter is showing about 0.3 amps -- or about a tenth of the amps that the throttle can give out. ( One engine is a Bachman GE 70 Ton Diesel and the other is an Atlas HO Alco s-2.  Obviously i am modeling HO)


Does 0.3 amps sound about right? 


I thought there might be a cap in the rectifier that was dropping -- but the spec sheet does no show any.

Is the Ammeter Right?

jimcubie@...
 

I have followed Alan's advice about how to use full wave bridge rectifier to measure DCC voltage and current with a standard digital multimeter.  Thanks so much for this advice.  Both volt measurements seem about right when you adjust for the lost V's with the larger cap. (I measure no drop form the small cap used in the peak measurement circuit.


 I am concerned about the current measurement. It may be too low. I first used 4 of the same diodes I used to rectify the volt signal (N1004i (?))  to rectify the DCC wave to measure amp -- but they got real hot so I realized they were not rated for the # of amps coming out of my Digitrax Zephyr throttle --- up to 3.4 amps.  So I bought a Radio Shack rectifier - actually a Vishnay KBU4D - rated at 4 amps.  When I set it up and put two small engines on a small piece of track wired close to the throttle (no buss) and running flat out (wheels spinning) the meter is showing about 0.3 amps -- or about a tenth of the amps that the throttle can give out. ( One engine is a Bachman GE 70 Ton Diesel and the other is an Atlas HO Alco s-2.  Obviously i am modeling HO)


Does 0.3 amps sound about right? 


I thought there might be a cap in the rectifier that was dropping -- but the spec sheet does no show any.