Date   
Re: Powering Points

PennsyNut
 

With Kerosene, there's the smell. I've used acetone now for over a year. Yes, it's not good on plastic. But I carefully wipe the rails, top and inside edge. And turnout points. CAREFULLY! There's noting inherently wrong with this. It's like anything else in the hobby. Use your common sense and don't do something stupid. And I'm sorry, this is not snake oil. It is what I do and it works for me. The graphite is what keeps the trains running for quite a while before re-coating with graphite. The actual cleaning is not required very often. Assuming you operate fairly often. If you leave a layout unused for weeks, you definitely need to clean. I'm not stepping anyone's toes and am not trying to sell anything. As for the snap: I only mentioned that it does help to keep electrical continuity. If you don't like it because of "slow motion", then remove it. That's your choice. I apologize and respectfully ask you to stop stomping on me. And I also apologize to Allan Gartner if I am being inappropriate. This forum is to help and that's all I'm trying to do.
Morgan Bilbo, new to DCC

Re: Powering Points and graphite

PennsyNut
 

Brass track and DCC don't mix too well. And I know many have disagreed with me about acetone. But it cleans better than alcohol. Just be super careful you don't get it on the ties. Wipe the rail tops and inside edges carefully. Dries almost immediately. Then wipe the graphite about 3", leave a 6" space and repeat. Then, take a car or two and roll them to spread the graphite. That should get you "up and running". After that, the graphite can be applied again after a few operations. Not more than once a week. That is what I do with nickel silver. Yes, acetone can melt plastic. But used sparingly on brass rail will be OK. So, for the rest of you, please don't keep jumping on me about acetone. It's what I use with PECO track and have no problem - because I keep it off the ties. It's called "careful". And with DCC is my way of keeping the trains running.
Morgan Bilbo, new to DCC

Re: Powering Points and graphite

crosswire144@...
 

My track is brass and for years the car wheels have collected a "brassy" crud on the running surface that has to be scraped off periodically. The crud can get thick enough to increase derailing. Does the graphite you use build up?
John Gross, newbe also

Re: Powering Points

Donald Scharenbroch
 

I have heard so many different recommendations on track cleaning & track maintenance that it is mind boggling. I think the only recommendation I have not heard is SNAKE OIL.

 

Here is an article that everyone should read at least twice before you tell me that I am an idiot: https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/mrhpub.com/2019-05-may/online/index.html?page=9   Clean your track with KEROSENE. When done cleaning, make sure that there is a VERY VERY light film of kerosene left on the rails. Same with your rolling stock.

 

I have heard of layouts running 2 years before a light cleaning is required. Kerosene is available at Home Depot, Lowes and some small hardware stores.

 

Don

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of wirefordcc
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:04 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Powering Points

 

Acetone will melt plastic.  If you use Acetone, you need to be sure you keep it off the plastic or wash it off.

Allan
Wiring for DCC

Re: Powering Points

Robert W. Childress
 

Add jumpers between the points and the rails.

Re: Powering Points

Carl
 

Hi Gang:

Why would you spend the money for a Tortoise, then leave the toggle spring in place resulting in "Snap" action. I thought the whole point was to have the points move slowly like the prototype??

Carl.

On 12/9/2019 9:13 AM, Blair & Rasa wrote:
Perry,
Just as an observation, I've never had to remove the springs.  I just up-size the wire, and the Tortoise is plenty capable of overcoming the spring.  Mind you, the turnout does have a bit of that characteristic "snap" sound, like a bang-bang solenoid machine.  This worked for several years in a pair of large staging yards totaling about 50 machines, so it's not a one-of experience.   Continuity was always good; however, in my current layout in progress, I am adding two small gauge wires from stock rails to point rails, to guard against the problem you're experiencing.  These are well-documented on  the W4DCC website; best installed before putting the turnout in place, however.
YMMV
Blair

On 2019-12-09 8:46, Perry A Pollino wrote:
John Thanks,
I did not specify which turnout I am using. I am using electrofrog.  I did imply it by saying I am using the new PSX Frog AR boards. My  bad, PSX are the same as a frog juicer.
I will try your sandpaper and Graphite trick. The problem does seem to be the  electric contact with stock rails and point rails. While checking with my meter if I push a bit on point rail I get continuity. I took out the springs in my turnouts since I am using Tortoise switch machines. I also upgraded a larger wire and brass tube to improve the movement.
Perry

On Monday, December 9, 2019, 5:17:39 AM CST, John Heaps <hpod@...> wrote:


Hi Perry,

You did not say if they are electrofrog or insulfrog.

If electrofrog you can solder a wire to the frog and wire so that you get power to the frog from the appropriate rail. This also depends on how you change the points.

To improve the contact with the point blades you can sandpaper with very fine sandpaper, then use a graphite pencil or a soft pencil ( 6B ) on the point blades. This works for me.

Cheers,

John Heaps,
Vic, Australia.



On 9/12/2019 10:45 am, Perry A Pollino wrote:
I have N scale Peco code 55 turnouts. Just started testing y track and it is not going well. I am using DCC NCE powe cab fr testing. I have PSX curcuit breakers and PSX Frog AR's. One of my scale trians 6 axle locos would stutter through and indicate a short. $ axle Atlas Loco only stuttered. I took  meter set for continuity. It seem my points are not being powered well. if I pus point into the rail I get continuity.
How can I improve the contact between the points and the rails?
Perry



Re: Powering Points

wirefordcc
 

Acetone will melt plastic.  If you use Acetone, you need to be sure you keep it off the plastic or wash it off.

Allan
Wiring for DCC

Re: Powering Points

PennsyNut
 

To start: I use Insulfrogs, and no machines. However, the springs are a great advantage to PECO turnouts. You should have left them in. As for the "snap", that may be more important to you than me. I like a snap. I also like the way the spring helps the point rail keep contact. I do on occasion, when cleaning track=clean the points very carefully. And there is controversy in what I do. I use acetone on a very small brush, keeping it off the ties. Only the rails and the adjoining points. And then, graphite. I also use graphite on all rails. Helps with both continuity/current and seems to make the rolling cars sound better. Seems to smooth the rails some. Be very sparing with the graphite. I rub it on with a brush about 3" and 6" without, and repeat. And running a car or two helps to smooth it over the rails. Similar to what I do with the turnout. move it back and forth a few times, and run a car through it on both sides to smooth the graphite.
Morgan Bilbo, new to DCC

Re: Powering Points

Blair & Rasa
 

Perry,
Just as an observation, I've never had to remove the springs.  I just up-size the wire, and the Tortoise is plenty capable of overcoming the spring.  Mind you, the turnout does have a bit of that characteristic "snap" sound, like a bang-bang solenoid machine.  This worked for several years in a pair of large staging yards totaling about 50 machines, so it's not a one-of experience.   Continuity was always good; however, in my current layout in progress, I am adding two small gauge wires from stock rails to point rails, to guard against the problem you're experiencing.  These are well-documented on  the W4DCC website; best installed before putting the turnout in place, however.
YMMV
Blair

On 2019-12-09 8:46, Perry A Pollino wrote:
John Thanks,
I did not specify which turnout I am using. I am using electrofrog.  I did imply it by saying I am using the new PSX Frog AR boards. My  bad, PSX are the same as a frog juicer.
I will try your sandpaper and Graphite trick. The problem does seem to be the  electric contact with stock rails and point rails. While checking with my meter if I push a bit on point rail I get continuity. I took out the springs in my turnouts since I am using Tortoise switch machines. I also upgraded a larger wire and brass tube to improve the movement.
Perry

On Monday, December 9, 2019, 5:17:39 AM CST, John Heaps <hpod@...> wrote:


Hi Perry,

You did not say if they are electrofrog or insulfrog.

If electrofrog you can solder a wire to the frog and wire so that you get power to the frog from the appropriate rail. This also depends on how you change the points.

To improve the contact with the point blades you can sandpaper with very fine sandpaper, then use a graphite pencil or a soft pencil ( 6B ) on the point blades. This works for me.

Cheers,

John Heaps,
Vic, Australia.



On 9/12/2019 10:45 am, Perry A Pollino wrote:
I have N scale Peco code 55 turnouts. Just started testing y track and it is not going well. I am using DCC NCE powe cab fr testing. I have PSX curcuit breakers and PSX Frog AR's. One of my scale trians 6 axle locos would stutter through and indicate a short. $ axle Atlas Loco only stuttered. I took  meter set for continuity. It seem my points are not being powered well. if I pus point into the rail I get continuity.
How can I improve the contact between the points and the rails?
Perry



Re: Powering Points

Perry A Pollino
 

John Thanks,
I did not specify which turnout I am using. I am using electrofrog.  I did imply it by saying I am using the new PSX Frog AR boards. My  bad, PSX are the same as a frog juicer.
I will try your sandpaper and Graphite trick. The problem does seem to be the  electric contact with stock rails and point rails. While checking with my meter if I push a bit on point rail I get continuity. I took out the springs in my turnouts since I am using Tortoise switch machines. I also upgraded a larger wire and brass tube to improve the movement.
Perry

On Monday, December 9, 2019, 5:17:39 AM CST, John Heaps <hpod@...> wrote:


Hi Perry,

You did not say if they are electrofrog or insulfrog.

If electrofrog you can solder a wire to the frog and wire so that you get power to the frog from the appropriate rail. This also depends on how you change the points.

To improve the contact with the point blades you can sandpaper with very fine sandpaper, then use a graphite pencil or a soft pencil ( 6B ) on the point blades. This works for me.

Cheers,

John Heaps,
Vic, Australia.



On 9/12/2019 10:45 am, Perry A Pollino wrote:
I have N scale Peco code 55 turnouts. Just started testing y track and it is not going well. I am using DCC NCE powe cab fr testing. I have PSX curcuit breakers and PSX Frog AR's. One of my scale trians 6 axle locos would stutter through and indicate a short. $ axle Atlas Loco only stuttered. I took  meter set for continuity. It seem my points are not being powered well. if I pus point into the rail I get continuity.
How can I improve the contact between the points and the rails?
Perry


Re: Powering Points

John Heaps
 

Hi Perry,

You did not say if they are electrofrog or insulfrog.

If electrofrog you can solder a wire to the frog and wire so that you get power to the frog from the appropriate rail. This also depends on how you change the points.

To improve the contact with the point blades you can sandpaper with very fine sandpaper, then use a graphite pencil or a soft pencil ( 6B ) on the point blades. This works for me.

Cheers,

John Heaps,
Vic, Australia.



On 9/12/2019 10:45 am, Perry A Pollino wrote:
I have N scale Peco code 55 turnouts. Just started testing y track and it is not going well. I am using DCC NCE powe cab fr testing. I have PSX curcuit breakers and PSX Frog AR's. One of my scale trians 6 axle locos would stutter through and indicate a short. $ axle Atlas Loco only stuttered. I took  meter set for continuity. It seem my points are not being powered well. if I pus point into the rail I get continuity.
How can I improve the contact between the points and the rails?
Perry


Powering Points

Perry A Pollino
 

I have N scale Peco code 55 turnouts. Just started testing y track and it is not going well. I am using DCC NCE powe cab fr testing. I have PSX curcuit breakers and PSX Frog AR's. One of my scale trians 6 axle locos would stutter through and indicate a short. $ axle Atlas Loco only stuttered. I took  meter set for continuity. It seem my points are not being powered well. if I pus point into the rail I get continuity.
How can I improve the contact between the points and the rails?
Perry

Re: DCC/DC and Dual Frof Juicer as Auto Reverser.

John Heaps
 

Hi Greg,

Thanks for uploading the files.

Not sure whether it will help in my situation without some adaptation, which is probably beyond me.

I will have either DCC or DC on the bus at a time, not both.


Thanks again &  cheers,

John Heaps,

Vic, Australia.


On 6/12/2019 1:47 am, Greg Harter wrote:
I uploaded the two DC/DCC files after creating a location called DC/DCC.  

BTW, I do think this is involved with wiring for DCC--to accommodate DC, for what it's worth.

Greg Harter

Re: DCC/DC and Dual Frof Juicer as Auto Reverser.

Blair & Rasa
 

if that comment was in response to my "nothing to do with DCC" comment, I was talking about the history of attachments, NOT your discussion of DC/DCC. Just to be clear. That was why I rephrased the subject line.
Blair

On 2019-12-05 9:47, Greg Harter wrote:
///
BTW, I do think this is involved with wiring for DCC--to accommodate DC, for what it's worth.
///

Re: DCC/DC and Dual Frof Juicer as Auto Reverser.

Greg Harter
 

I uploaded the two DC/DCC files after creating a location called DC/DCC.  

BTW, I do think this is involved with wiring for DCC--to accommodate DC, for what it's worth.

Greg Harter

New files uploaded to w4dccqa@groups.io

w4dccqa@groups.io Notification <w4dccqa+notification@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that the following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the w4dccqa@groups.io group.

Uploaded By: Greg Harter <greg1462@...>

Description:
here are the component lists and descriptions of how the DC/DCC detector boards work. We have several of these operating on our club layout.

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team

Frog juicer as auto reverser with staggered pickup locomotives

Tom in Texas
 

Is there an installation trick I could use to get the device to work with brass steam locomotives?

Tom in Texas 

Re: DCC/DC and Dual Frof Juicer as Auto Reverser.

David McBrayer
 

Greg,
Following on your reply and the message posted this morning from Blair & Rasa.

Since your files are not of an image filetype, I suggest you use the procedure I suggested in the ‘Photos’ tab but now in the ‘Files’ tab. Within your named folder under the ‘Files’ tab you may include a mix of image and document filetypes as well as ‘*.zip’ files, should you so choose. Then post to this group a message announcing you have done the above and include a link to the folder that others may benefit.

—Dave

On Dec 4, 2019, at 05:41, Greg Harter <greg1462@...> wrote:
to David McBrayer; Thanks for your detailed instructions. I don't have photos, only wiring schematics, component lists, and diagrams. The process you described will not allow anything but photos.

What can I do to get this information out to the DCC group?

Thanks in advance!

Sincerely,
Greg Harter
--
Dave McBrayer
Castro Valley, CA

Re: DCC/DC and Dual Frof Juicer as Auto Reverser.

Blair & Rasa
 

Greg

If you're logged into groups.io, you should be able to open the files folder at the w4dccqa group.  This link should get you there:

https://groups.io/g/w4dccqa/files

When you're on the group home page, the files portion appears as a link on the left hand side of the page, right below photos.

Blair

Re: DCC/DC and Dual Frof Juicer as Auto Reverser.

Brian Lewis
 

I sigh every time I see this - it happens quite regularly.  This is the only group of which I am a member, that does not allow attachments. Is there any good reason for this?

On 03/12/2019 13:34, Greg Harter wrote:
DC/DCC detectors to permit layouts to run both:

apparently I don't know how to do this.  My note to the group went through, but not the schematics, etc.
Can somebody help me with this?

Greg Harter
--

Regards and thanks

 

Brian Lewis