Date   
Re: Wiring

Allan <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

I can't answer all your questions. Regarding the IDC's (suitcase)
connectors, you can purchase them from Mouser. See my website at:
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/parts.htm#a34

Without knowing more about the LS150 and your #541 turnout/remote, I
can't think of any reason why a butt splice cannot be used. I am
inferring that that the turnout and remote come with some wire. If I
am right, I suggest you replace that wire with heavier wire - 18 AWG
ought to do.

Allan

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "micksport" <msranske@...> wrote:

I apologize if this is too much related to the previous topic on
wire sizes, but with all the replies I still have a few questions.

I'm using Atlas code 83 track and have a few turn outs I need to
wire because they are hard to reach. I am using the NCE Power Cab
and also have the LS 150. With the #541 turnout/remote obviously
the wire only goes so far. My questions:

What gauge wire is used with this remote/turnout?

What gauge wire should I connect this with (from turn out wire to
the LS150)?

How exactly should these wires be connected to each other?

Will a butt splice work?

I've had a difficult time locating the "suitcase" or "tap"
connectors, even at Home Depot. Unfortunately, it seems not many
people at the hardware stores I have been to have heard of these.

As always thanks for the help, it is greatly appreciated.

Re: Wiring

Allan <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

I forgot to mention several important things.

1. Make sure you use the 3-M IDCs as sold by Mouser. Apparently the
quality of IDCs varies and modelers have had good success with 3-M
IDCs.

2. IDCs are designed for specific wire sizes. They only work right
when the right wire size is used.

3. Modelers report higher reliability from IDCs that are crimped
with the tool specifically designed to crimp them. Modelers advise
against using pliers. I just looked up that tool. It is not cheap.
It is Mouser number 517-E9BM. It's $61. I am also adding this tool
to my website's parts listing.

Note: I do not use IDCs myself. The above information has been
given by modelers on this Forum over the past several years.

Allan


--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Allan" <wire4dcc_admin@...>
wrote:

I can't answer all your questions. Regarding the IDC's (suitcase)
connectors, you can purchase them from Mouser. See my website at:
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/parts.htm#a34

Without knowing more about the LS150 and your #541 turnout/remote,
I
can't think of any reason why a butt splice cannot be used. I am
inferring that that the turnout and remote come with some wire. If
I
am right, I suggest you replace that wire with heavier wire - 18
AWG
ought to do.

Allan

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "micksport" <msranske@> wrote:

I apologize if this is too much related to the previous topic on
wire sizes, but with all the replies I still have a few questions.

I'm using Atlas code 83 track and have a few turn outs I need to
wire because they are hard to reach. I am using the NCE Power
Cab
and also have the LS 150. With the #541 turnout/remote obviously
the wire only goes so far. My questions:

What gauge wire is used with this remote/turnout?

What gauge wire should I connect this with (from turn out wire to
the LS150)?

How exactly should these wires be connected to each other?

Will a butt splice work?

I've had a difficult time locating the "suitcase" or "tap"
connectors, even at Home Depot. Unfortunately, it seems not many
people at the hardware stores I have been to have heard of these.

As always thanks for the help, it is greatly appreciated.

Re: Wiring

Stuart Bouchey <sbouchey@...>
 

Allan
The IDC's are also designed for specific types of wire insulation with maximum outside dimensions.
As an example [From Scotchlok 567 Data Sheet]:
"For use with common thermoplastic insulated wires such as:
T, TF, TFF, TFN, TFFN, AWM, TEW, SAE-GPT with a
maximum insulation diameter of (tap) .145 inches (3.5 mm)
run .190 inches (4.8 mm)."

HTH Stuart

----- Original Message -----
From: Allan
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Saturday 14 April 2007 1721
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Wiring


I forgot to mention several important things.

1. Make sure you use the 3-M IDCs as sold by Mouser. Apparently the
quality of IDCs varies and modelers have had good success with 3-M
IDCs.

2. IDCs are designed for specific wire sizes. They only work right
when the right wire size is used.

3. Modelers report higher reliability from IDCs that are crimped
with the tool specifically designed to crimp them. Modelers advise
against using pliers. I just looked up that tool. It is not cheap.
It is Mouser number 517-E9BM. It's $61. I am also adding this tool
to my website's parts listing.

Note: I do not use IDCs myself. The above information has been
given by modelers on this Forum over the past several years.

Allan

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Allan" <wire4dcc_admin@...>
wrote:
>
> I can't answer all your questions. Regarding the IDC's (suitcase)
> connectors, you can purchase them from Mouser. See my website at:
> http://www.wiringfordcc.com/parts.htm#a34
>
> Without knowing more about the LS150 and your #541 turnout/remote,
I
> can't think of any reason why a butt splice cannot be used. I am
> inferring that that the turnout and remote come with some wire. If
I
> am right, I suggest you replace that wire with heavier wire - 18
AWG
> ought to do.
>
> Allan
>
> --- In WiringForDCC@..., "micksport" <msranske@> wrote:
> >
> > I apologize if this is too much related to the previous topic on
> > wire sizes, but with all the replies I still have a few questions.
> >
> > I'm using Atlas code 83 track and have a few turn outs I need to
> > wire because they are hard to reach. I am using the NCE Power
Cab
> > and also have the LS 150. With the #541 turnout/remote obviously
> > the wire only goes so far. My questions:
> >
> > What gauge wire is used with this remote/turnout?
> >
> > What gauge wire should I connect this with (from turn out wire to
> > the LS150)?
> >
> > How exactly should these wires be connected to each other?
> >
> > Will a butt splice work?
> >
> > I've had a difficult time locating the "suitcase" or "tap"
> > connectors, even at Home Depot. Unfortunately, it seems not many
> > people at the hardware stores I have been to have heard of these.
> >
> > As always thanks for the help, it is greatly appreciated.
> >
>

Track gaps - is there a better way?

David Emery <demery@...>
 

Well, I thought I had done everything right. I got the feeders soldered in, and then used my dremel to cut gaps in the track. Then I cut little pieces of styrene and epoxied them in place.

But (a) the epoxy seems to have not held and (b) many spots are out of alignment, i.e. rail on one side of the gap is lower than the other.

Anyone have any better ways to fill the insulation gaps? If there was a better way to cut them, it's too late now :-(

Thanks in advance

dave

p.s. I hate trackwork. There are times when I'm tempted to ignore the whole concept of -running- the trains. I think I'll work on something else for the rest of this weekend.

Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

Jerry <dataxpert@...>
 

Why put a piece of styrene, I just put epoxy between the gap, cut with a
dremel. I found than the epoxy shrink a little bit and more than often no
need for file it ., I can understand a problem with side alignment in a
curve but a problem with vertical alignment ???? what kind of track are you
using ??? Make sure you don't cut the rail where the roadbed joint too.

-----Message d'origine-----
De : WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] De
la part de David Emery
Envoyé : 15 avril 2007 15:06
À : WiringForDCC@...
Objet : [WiringForDCC] Track gaps - is there a better way?

Well, I thought I had done everything right. I got the feeders soldered
in, and then used my dremel to cut gaps in the track. Then I cut little
pieces of styrene and epoxied them in place.

But (a) the epoxy seems to have not held and (b) many spots are out of
alignment, i.e. rail on one side of the gap is lower than the other.

Anyone have any better ways to fill the insulation gaps? If there was a
better way to cut them, it's too late now :-(

Thanks in advance

dave

p.s. I hate trackwork. There are times when I'm tempted to ignore the
whole concept of -running- the trains. I think I'll work on something
else for the rest of this weekend.




http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

Allan <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Dave,

I'm with you. Trackwork is not my favorite thing. And if someone has
a better way, I'd like to hear it.

I learned the fill-the-gap-with-styrene approach from someone who
handlaid his track on homasote. Not only did I not use homasote, but I
used the Woodland Scenics foam roadbed. The foam roadbed lays faster
and easier than cork, but I ended up with the same problem you did.
Joints that didn't hold and ends that no longer align.

You, hopefully, will hear of a better way. But what you need is a way
to fix what you have. Here is what I did to fix my misaligned ends.

1. Buy a pair of end nippers. These are hard to find, but Radio Shack
sells a set of electrical cutters and such for about $25 which includes
end nippers. Go to www.RadioShack.com and search for end nippers or
look up catalog # 64-030.

2. Cut a piece of styrene to go under the misaligned rails. Make it
about 3/4" long. You will have to cut the ties in the vicinity so that
you can use this long piece.

3. Epoxy the styrene to the bottom of the rails. Fill the gap between
the rails with epoxy.

4. Put some vaseline on the end of the nippers. The vaseline keeps
the nippers from being epoxied to the track. Clamp the rails into
alignment using the end nippers. These things are hard to describe,
but when you see them, you will see how they make great rail clamps and
hold the rail in alignment. Rubberband the handle of the rail nippers
closed. Leave for 24 hours.

I admit this fix is not pretty, but paint hides them fairly well. I
have also stopped using the Woodland Scenics foam roadbed. Woodland
Scenics makes some great products, and this one is useful for many
applications, but use with cut joints does not appear to be one of them.

Allan

Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

Jerry <dataxpert@...>
 

For flex track the best to avoid the vertical misalignment is to use cork
and glue the track on it , especially under the cut joint , foam roadbed
are too compressible

-----Message d'origine-----
De : WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] De
la part de Allan
Envoyé : 15 avril 2007 15:34
À : WiringForDCC@...
Objet : [WiringForDCC] Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

Dave,

I'm with you. Trackwork is not my favorite thing. And if someone has
a better way, I'd like to hear it.

I learned the fill-the-gap-with-styrene approach from someone who
handlaid his track on homasote. Not only did I not use homasote, but I
used the Woodland Scenics foam roadbed. The foam roadbed lays faster
and easier than cork, but I ended up with the same problem you did.
Joints that didn't hold and ends that no longer align.

You, hopefully, will hear of a better way. But what you need is a way
to fix what you have. Here is what I did to fix my misaligned ends.

1. Buy a pair of end nippers. These are hard to find, but Radio Shack
sells a set of electrical cutters and such for about $25 which includes
end nippers. Go to www.RadioShack.com and search for end nippers or
look up catalog # 64-030.

2. Cut a piece of styrene to go under the misaligned rails. Make it
about 3/4" long. You will have to cut the ties in the vicinity so that
you can use this long piece.

3. Epoxy the styrene to the bottom of the rails. Fill the gap between
the rails with epoxy.

4. Put some vaseline on the end of the nippers. The vaseline keeps
the nippers from being epoxied to the track. Clamp the rails into
alignment using the end nippers. These things are hard to describe,
but when you see them, you will see how they make great rail clamps and
hold the rail in alignment. Rubberband the handle of the rail nippers
closed. Leave for 24 hours.

I admit this fix is not pretty, but paint hides them fairly well. I
have also stopped using the Woodland Scenics foam roadbed. Woodland
Scenics makes some great products, and this one is useful for many
applications, but use with cut joints does not appear to be one of them.

Allan






http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

joe.daddyo <mrr@...>
 

Styrene and epoxy make a nice joiner, but like all things there are
some gotchas.


There are Many kinds of epoxy. The five minute kind is not what I
would recommend. Yes it dries quickly but it does not bond nearly as
well as the 45 minute or 2 hour epoxy which actually takes 24 hours to
cure. (I have never seen 45 minute or 2 hour in the single two column
tube and plunger. All that I have ever seen of that kind is 5
minute.) Also, the 45 minute is very 'thin' and can run easily. In my
RC boating days, we used backing soda to thicken the epoxy when we
needed more 'body.' A product called micro-balloons was available to
thicken epoxy as well.

Using the 45 minute or 2 hour is the kind I use and I get really good
results if I mix it correctly, meaning that I use equal amounts of
both kinds. You can tell if you mixed it wrong if it does not dry
completely in 24 hours. If you have the problem with this, clean it
out and start over. I use my Dremel again with a #11 and scrape it as
clean as I can get. Alcohol is a great cleaner for wet epoxy so use
it to help with the clean up and start over.

About track work that loses its dimensional stability when you cut the
rail, well, I use carefully applied 45 minute epoxy, cardboard shims
and I have some track gauges that have notches where you can glue
through the notch.

Joe Daddy





--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Jerry " <dataxpert@...> wrote:

For flex track the best to avoid the vertical misalignment is to
use cork
and glue the track on it , especially under the cut joint , foam
roadbed
are too compressible


-----Message d'origine-----
De : WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...] De
la part de Allan
Envoyé : 15 avril 2007 15:34
À : WiringForDCC@...
Objet : [WiringForDCC] Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

Dave,

I'm with you. Trackwork is not my favorite thing. And if someone has
a better way, I'd like to hear it.

I learned the fill-the-gap-with-styrene approach from someone who
handlaid his track on homasote. Not only did I not use homasote, but I
used the Woodland Scenics foam roadbed. The foam roadbed lays faster
and easier than cork, but I ended up with the same problem you did.
Joints that didn't hold and ends that no longer align.

You, hopefully, will hear of a better way. But what you need is a way
to fix what you have. Here is what I did to fix my misaligned ends.

1. Buy a pair of end nippers. These are hard to find, but Radio Shack
sells a set of electrical cutters and such for about $25 which includes
end nippers. Go to www.RadioShack.com and search for end nippers or
look up catalog # 64-030.

2. Cut a piece of styrene to go under the misaligned rails. Make it
about 3/4" long. You will have to cut the ties in the vicinity so that
you can use this long piece.

3. Epoxy the styrene to the bottom of the rails. Fill the gap between
the rails with epoxy.

4. Put some vaseline on the end of the nippers. The vaseline keeps
the nippers from being epoxied to the track. Clamp the rails into
alignment using the end nippers. These things are hard to describe,
but when you see them, you will see how they make great rail clamps and
hold the rail in alignment. Rubberband the handle of the rail nippers
closed. Leave for 24 hours.

I admit this fix is not pretty, but paint hides them fairly well. I
have also stopped using the Woodland Scenics foam roadbed. Woodland
Scenics makes some great products, and this one is useful for many
applications, but use with cut joints does not appear to be one of them.

Allan






http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

Doug Stuard <dstuard@...>
 

Curves are always a problem, but for gaps in straights I like Peco
insulated joiners. They are similar to the orange Atlas joiners, but
are clear and almost invisible. They also include a little piece to
keep the rail ends apart.

Doug

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "joe.daddyo" <mrr@...> wrote:

Styrene and epoxy make a nice joiner, but like all things there are
some gotchas.


There are Many kinds of epoxy. The five minute kind is not what I
would recommend. Yes it dries quickly but it does not bond nearly as
well as the 45 minute or 2 hour epoxy which actually takes 24 hours
to
cure. (I have never seen 45 minute or 2 hour in the single two
column
tube and plunger. All that I have ever seen of that kind is 5
minute.) Also, the 45 minute is very 'thin' and can run easily. In
my
RC boating days, we used backing soda to thicken the epoxy when we
needed more 'body.' A product called micro-balloons was available to
thicken epoxy as well.

Using the 45 minute or 2 hour is the kind I use and I get really
good
results if I mix it correctly, meaning that I use equal amounts of
both kinds. You can tell if you mixed it wrong if it does not dry
completely in 24 hours. If you have the problem with this, clean it
out and start over. I use my Dremel again with a #11 and scrape it
as
clean as I can get. Alcohol is a great cleaner for wet epoxy so use
it to help with the clean up and start over.

About track work that loses its dimensional stability when you cut
the
rail, well, I use carefully applied 45 minute epoxy, cardboard shims
and I have some track gauges that have notches where you can glue
through the notch.

Joe Daddy





--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Jerry " <dataxpert@> wrote:

For flex track the best to avoid the vertical misalignment is to
use cork
and glue the track on it , especially under the cut joint , foam
roadbed
are too compressible


-----Message d'origine-----
De : WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...] De
la part de Allan
Envoyé : 15 avril 2007 15:34
À : WiringForDCC@...
Objet : [WiringForDCC] Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

Dave,

I'm with you. Trackwork is not my favorite thing. And if
someone has
a better way, I'd like to hear it.

I learned the fill-the-gap-with-styrene approach from someone who
handlaid his track on homasote. Not only did I not use homasote,
but I
used the Woodland Scenics foam roadbed. The foam roadbed lays
faster
and easier than cork, but I ended up with the same problem you
did.
Joints that didn't hold and ends that no longer align.

You, hopefully, will hear of a better way. But what you need is
a way
to fix what you have. Here is what I did to fix my misaligned
ends.

1. Buy a pair of end nippers. These are hard to find, but Radio
Shack
sells a set of electrical cutters and such for about $25 which
includes
end nippers. Go to www.RadioShack.com and search for end nippers
or
look up catalog # 64-030.

2. Cut a piece of styrene to go under the misaligned rails.
Make it
about 3/4" long. You will have to cut the ties in the vicinity
so that
you can use this long piece.

3. Epoxy the styrene to the bottom of the rails. Fill the gap
between
the rails with epoxy.

4. Put some vaseline on the end of the nippers. The vaseline
keeps
the nippers from being epoxied to the track. Clamp the rails into
alignment using the end nippers. These things are hard to
describe,
but when you see them, you will see how they make great rail
clamps and
hold the rail in alignment. Rubberband the handle of the rail
nippers
closed. Leave for 24 hours.

I admit this fix is not pretty, but paint hides them fairly well.
I
have also stopped using the Woodland Scenics foam roadbed.
Woodland
Scenics makes some great products, and this one is useful for
many
applications, but use with cut joints does not appear to be one
of them.

Allan






http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

joe.daddyo <mrr@...>
 

Doug,
For my HO layout I have used some of the Atlas rail joiners. They are
clear plastic and have a vertical track separator in the middle to
keep the rails from touching. They sound exactly like the Peco ones
you have described.

Joe Daddy

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Doug Stuard" <dstuard@...> wrote:

Curves are always a problem, but for gaps in straights I like Peco
insulated joiners. They are similar to the orange Atlas joiners, but
are clear and almost invisible. They also include a little piece to
keep the rail ends apart.

Doug

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "joe.daddyo" <mrr@> wrote:

Styrene and epoxy make a nice joiner, but like all things there are
some gotchas.


There are Many kinds of epoxy. The five minute kind is not what I
would recommend. Yes it dries quickly but it does not bond nearly as
well as the 45 minute or 2 hour epoxy which actually takes 24 hours
to
cure. (I have never seen 45 minute or 2 hour in the single two
column
tube and plunger. All that I have ever seen of that kind is 5
minute.) Also, the 45 minute is very 'thin' and can run easily. In
my
RC boating days, we used backing soda to thicken the epoxy when we
needed more 'body.' A product called micro-balloons was available to
thicken epoxy as well.

Using the 45 minute or 2 hour is the kind I use and I get really
good
results if I mix it correctly, meaning that I use equal amounts of
both kinds. You can tell if you mixed it wrong if it does not dry
completely in 24 hours. If you have the problem with this, clean it
out and start over. I use my Dremel again with a #11 and scrape it
as
clean as I can get. Alcohol is a great cleaner for wet epoxy so use
it to help with the clean up and start over.

About track work that loses its dimensional stability when you cut
the
rail, well, I use carefully applied 45 minute epoxy, cardboard shims
and I have some track gauges that have notches where you can glue
through the notch.

Joe Daddy





--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Jerry " <dataxpert@> wrote:

For flex track the best to avoid the vertical misalignment is to
use cork
and glue the track on it , especially under the cut joint , foam
roadbed
are too compressible


-----Message d'origine-----
De : WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...] De
la part de Allan
Envoyé : 15 avril 2007 15:34
À : WiringForDCC@...
Objet : [WiringForDCC] Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

Dave,

I'm with you. Trackwork is not my favorite thing. And if
someone has
a better way, I'd like to hear it.

I learned the fill-the-gap-with-styrene approach from someone who
handlaid his track on homasote. Not only did I not use homasote,
but I
used the Woodland Scenics foam roadbed. The foam roadbed lays
faster
and easier than cork, but I ended up with the same problem you
did.
Joints that didn't hold and ends that no longer align.

You, hopefully, will hear of a better way. But what you need is
a way
to fix what you have. Here is what I did to fix my misaligned
ends.

1. Buy a pair of end nippers. These are hard to find, but Radio
Shack
sells a set of electrical cutters and such for about $25 which
includes
end nippers. Go to www.RadioShack.com and search for end nippers
or
look up catalog # 64-030.

2. Cut a piece of styrene to go under the misaligned rails.
Make it
about 3/4" long. You will have to cut the ties in the vicinity
so that
you can use this long piece.

3. Epoxy the styrene to the bottom of the rails. Fill the gap
between
the rails with epoxy.

4. Put some vaseline on the end of the nippers. The vaseline
keeps
the nippers from being epoxied to the track. Clamp the rails into
alignment using the end nippers. These things are hard to
describe,
but when you see them, you will see how they make great rail
clamps and
hold the rail in alignment. Rubberband the handle of the rail
nippers
closed. Leave for 24 hours.

I admit this fix is not pretty, but paint hides them fairly well.
I
have also stopped using the Woodland Scenics foam roadbed.
Woodland
Scenics makes some great products, and this one is useful for
many
applications, but use with cut joints does not appear to be one
of them.

Allan






http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

Earl Hackett <hacketet@...>
 

Since I hand lay all my track these suggestions may not be completely appropriate for your situation, but here goes....

I glue my ties to white pine roadbed glued to a sub roadbed of Homasote. The ties must be perfectly level. So after laying the ties, I sand them to what appears to be level. Then I stain them and sand them again until all the tops are the same color. This insures that the tops are truly level. Stain is then reapplied.

There are two ways I create gaps:

1. Align the two rails with a straight edge and spike them in place. Fill the gap with epoxy.
2. Spike and glue (either epoxy or cyanoacrylate) the rails on both sides of the gap for at least 2 ties. After the adhesuve cures, I cut the rail with a small bit in my Emco dental drill (others use a fine abrasive disk in their Dremel and it works OK), then fill the gap with epoxy.

I prefer to lay a bunch of track and cut the gaps all at once - maybe 20 or 30 gaps at a time. I apply the epoxy with a syringe and small diameter needle. For an epoxy go to

http://jgreer.com/

You can get Epon resins and hardeners in a reasonable volume and at a reasonable price. Use a fumed silica such as Cab-o-sil to thicken the epoxy so it doesn't run. His red system is the old Epon 826/V40 system. For FRP and adhesives use a 1:1 mix. For a stiffer product for castings or in this case an insulating gap filler, use a 2:1 epoxy:hardener ratio.

Initial cure is 24 hours, but it won't develop full strength for at least a week.

For more detailed information join the handlaidtrack group and search the old correspondance. We have had lots of discussion on this.

----- Original Message -----
From: David Emery
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 3:06 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Track gaps - is there a better way?


Well, I thought I had done everything right. I got the feeders soldered
in, and then used my dremel to cut gaps in the track. Then I cut little
pieces of styrene and epoxied them in place.

But (a) the epoxy seems to have not held and (b) many spots are out of
alignment, i.e. rail on one side of the gap is lower than the other.

Anyone have any better ways to fill the insulation gaps? If there was a
better way to cut them, it's too late now :-(

Thanks in advance

dave

p.s. I hate trackwork. There are times when I'm tempted to ignore the
whole concept of -running- the trains. I think I'll work on something
else for the rest of this weekend.

Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

Michael Cartabiano
 

I follow Earl's method somewhat for handlaid and flex track. For gapping rail,I put in 2 pairs of spikes on each side of the gap (2 Dremel discs wide), super glue the rail in place and cut gaps with 2 dremel discs stacked together. I then drill holes with a #55 drill 1/2" into the roadbed in the gap. I trim scrap ties from the flex track to a thin wedge and with a drop of superglue, push them into the gap and holes. After the glue sets I trim the protruding ties ends to match the railhead width. This method lets the track expand and contract as needed due to temperature and humidity.
I also run 12V through the rail and flex track for 10 min. to dimensionally stablize the rail.I saw this a few months ago in a NMRA bulletin.This sounded a bit weird but it stopped some rail going out of gauge for unknown reasons.

Good Luck
Mike Cartabiano
Los Angeles Model Railroad Society

Earl Hackett <hacketet@...> wrote: Since I hand lay all my track these suggestions may not be completely appropriate for your situation, but here goes....

I glue my ties to white pine roadbed glued to a sub roadbed of Homasote. The ties must be perfectly level. So after laying the ties, I sand them to what appears to be level. Then I stain them and sand them again until all the tops are the same color. This insures that the tops are truly level. Stain is then reapplied.

There are two ways I create gaps:

1. Align the two rails with a straight edge and spike them in place. Fill the gap with epoxy.
2. Spike and glue (either epoxy or cyanoacrylate) the rails on both sides of the gap for at least 2 ties. After the adhesuve cures, I cut the rail with a small bit in my Emco dental drill (others use a fine abrasive disk in their Dremel and it works OK), then fill the gap with epoxy.

I prefer to lay a bunch of track and cut the gaps all at once - maybe 20 or 30 gaps at a time. I apply the epoxy with a syringe and small diameter needle. For an epoxy go to

http://jgreer.com/

You can get Epon resins and hardeners in a reasonable volume and at a reasonable price. Use a fumed silica such as Cab-o-sil to thicken the epoxy so it doesn't run. His red system is the old Epon 826/V40 system. For FRP and adhesives use a 1:1 mix. For a stiffer product for castings or in this case an insulating gap filler, use a 2:1 epoxy:hardener ratio.

Initial cure is 24 hours, but it won't develop full strength for at least a week.

For more detailed information join the handlaidtrack group and search the old correspondance. We have had lots of discussion on this.

----- Original Message -----
From: David Emery
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 3:06 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Track gaps - is there a better way?

Well, I thought I had done everything right. I got the feeders soldered
in, and then used my dremel to cut gaps in the track. Then I cut little
pieces of styrene and epoxied them in place.

But (a) the epoxy seems to have not held and (b) many spots are out of
alignment, i.e. rail on one side of the gap is lower than the other.

Anyone have any better ways to fill the insulation gaps? If there was a
better way to cut them, it's too late now :-(

Thanks in advance

dave

p.s. I hate trackwork. There are times when I'm tempted to ignore the
whole concept of -running- the trains. I think I'll work on something
else for the rest of this weekend.








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Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

chappy <chappy@...>
 

Mike I missed that NMRA bulletin. can you eloborate on the electrical stabilization process?

Thanks,

Chappy

On 4/15/2007 9:14:35 PM, wiringfordcc@... wrote:
I follow Earl's method somewhat for handlaid and flex track. For gapping rail,I put in 2 pairs of spikes on each side of the gap
(2 Dremel discs wide), super glue the rail in place and cut gaps with 2 dremel discs stacked together. I then drill holes with a #55
drill 1/2" into the roadbed in the gap. I trim scrap ties from the flex track to a thin wedge and with a drop of superglue, push
them into the gap and holes. After the glue sets I trim the protruding ties ends to match the railhead width. This method lets the
track expand and contract as needed due to temperature and humidity.
I also run 12V through the rail and flex track for 10 min. to dimensionally stablize the rail.I saw this a few months ago in a
NMRA bulletin.This sounded a bit weird but it stopped some rail going out of gauge for unknown reasons.

Good Luck
Mike Cartabiano
Los Angeles Model Railroad Society

Earl Hackett <hacketet@...> wrote: Since I hand lay all my track these suggestions may
not be completely appropriate for your situation, but here goes....

I glue my ties to white pine roadbed glued to a sub roadbed of Homasote. The ties must be perfectly level. So after laying
--
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Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

Doug Stuard <dstuard@...>
 

To this old EE that makes absolutely no sense at all.

Doug Stuard
NVNTRAK


--- In WiringForDCC@..., "chappy" <chappy@...> wrote:

Mike I missed that NMRA bulletin. can you eloborate on the
electrical stabilization process?

Thanks,

Chappy

On 4/15/2007 9:14:35 PM, wiringfordcc@... wrote:
I follow Earl's method somewhat for handlaid and flex track. For
gapping rail,I put in 2 pairs of spikes on each side of the gap
(2 Dremel discs wide), super glue the rail in place and cut gaps
with 2 dremel discs stacked together. I then drill holes with a #55
drill 1/2" into the roadbed in the gap. I trim scrap ties from the
flex track to a thin wedge and with a drop of superglue, push
them into the gap and holes. After the glue sets I trim the
protruding ties ends to match the railhead width. This method lets the
track expand and contract as needed due to temperature and humidity.
I also run 12V through the rail and flex track for 10 min. to
dimensionally stablize the rail.I saw this a few months ago in a
NMRA bulletin.This sounded a bit weird but it stopped some rail
going out of gauge for unknown reasons.

Good Luck
Mike Cartabiano
Los Angeles Model Railroad Society

Earl Hackett <hacketet@...>
wrote: Since I hand lay all my track
these suggestions may
not be completely appropriate for your situation, but here goes....

I glue my ties to white pine roadbed glued to a sub roadbed of
Homasote. The ties must be perfectly level. So after laying

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.4.0/762 - Release Date:
4/15/2007 4:22 PM

Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

Earl T. Hackett <hacketet@...>
 

I assume it's the part about running current through the rail to
stabilize it that doesn't make much sense. Just to avoid a long OT
discussion, on the handlaidtrack group there were some long discussions
about this. I was pretty much a bystander as I never experienced a
problem with my code 70 rail. When all the ifs, ands, and buts
settled, it appears that when using very small rail (code 55 and
smaller) there is a lot of residual stress from the drawing process.
Over time this stress would distort the rail and cause problems if it
was installed on a layout. Heating the rail relieves some of that
stress and reduces any dimensional change that could occur over time.
The conclusion was that it is probably more appropriate to heat the
bundle or coil of rail in an oven prior to installing it on the layout
rather than pump a bunch of current through it after installation.

This appears to be unnecessary for the heavier gauge rails. Heavier
rail is much easier to draw and the residual stress is much less.

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Doug Stuard" <dstuard@...> wrote:

To this old EE that makes absolutely no sense at all.

Doug Stuard
NVNTRAK
I also run 12V through the rail and flex track for 10 min. to
dimensionally stablize the rail.I saw this a few months ago in a
NMRA bulletin.This sounded a bit weird but it stopped some rail
going out of gauge for unknown reasons.

Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

chappy <chappy@...>
 

Thanks Earl, now I know what we are conversing about.

Appreciate your time and reply.

Chappy

On 4/16/2007 7:39:20 AM, wiringfordcc@... wrote:
I assume
it's the part about running current through the rail to
stabilize it that doesn't
make much sense. Just to avoid a long OT
discussion, on the handlaidtrack group there were some long discussions
about this. I was pretty much a bystander as I never experienced a
problem with my code 70 rail. When all the ifs, ands, and buts
settled, it appears that when using very small rail (code 55 and
smaller) there is a lot of residual stress from the drawing process.
Over time this stress would distort the rail and cause problems if it
was installed on a layout. Heating the rail relieves some of that
stress and reduces any dimensional change that could occur over time.
The conclusion was that it is probably more appropriate to heat the
bundle or coil of rail in an oven prior to installing it on the layout
rather than pump a bunch of current through it after installation.

This appears to be unnecessary for the heavier gauge rails. Heavier
rail is much easier to draw and the residual stress is much less.
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.4.0/762 - Release Date: 4/15/2007 4:22 PM

Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

Doug Stuard <dstuard@...>
 

Good enough Earl. I'm an EE, not a metalurgist! <G>. That still
doesn't square with the statement about gauge however.

I would guess that unless you are running code 40 or less with heavy
power, it would not be a worry.

Or you could pre-bake rail in the oven (explain THAT to the wife!)

Doug

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Earl T. Hackett" <hacketet@...>
wrote:

I assume it's the part about running current through the rail to
stabilize it that doesn't make much sense. Just to avoid a long OT
discussion, on the handlaidtrack group there were some long
discussions
about this. I was pretty much a bystander as I never experienced a
problem with my code 70 rail. When all the ifs, ands, and buts
settled, it appears that when using very small rail (code 55 and
smaller) there is a lot of residual stress from the drawing
process.
Over time this stress would distort the rail and cause problems if
it
was installed on a layout. Heating the rail relieves some of that
stress and reduces any dimensional change that could occur over
time.
The conclusion was that it is probably more appropriate to heat the
bundle or coil of rail in an oven prior to installing it on the
layout
rather than pump a bunch of current through it after installation.

This appears to be unnecessary for the heavier gauge rails.
Heavier
rail is much easier to draw and the residual stress is much less.

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Doug Stuard" <dstuard@> wrote:

To this old EE that makes absolutely no sense at all.

Doug Stuard
NVNTRAK
I also run 12V through the rail and flex track for 10 min. to
dimensionally stablize the rail.I saw this a few months ago in a
NMRA bulletin.This sounded a bit weird but it stopped some rail
going out of gauge for unknown reasons.

Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

Earl Hackett <hacketet@...>
 

When the stress in the rail is relieved it shrinks. The forces involved are quite high and it simply rips itself out of alignment. If the rail section was straight it would simply increase the gaps at the end. On a curve or switch it just makes a mess of the track. The prototype has similar problems with rail growth on hot summer days resulting in additional speed restrictions.

----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Stuard
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 5:15 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?


Good enough Earl. I'm an EE, not a metalurgist! <G>. That still
doesn't square with the statement about gauge however.

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Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

Doug Stuard <dstuard@...>
 

I'm familar with "sun kinks", but those are expansion/contraction vs
temperature and are reversable (up to a point). What you are
describing sounds more like an actual change in the metallic
structure.

A problem in any case, for sure, but not one I've ever seen in MRRing.

Doug Stuard
NVNTRAK

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Earl Hackett" <hacketet@...>
wrote:

When the stress in the rail is relieved it shrinks. The forces
involved are quite high and it simply rips itself out of alignment.
If the rail section was straight it would simply increase the gaps at
the end. On a curve or switch it just makes a mess of the track.
The prototype has similar problems with rail growth on hot summer
days resulting in additional speed restrictions.

----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Stuard
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 5:15 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?


Good enough Earl. I'm an EE, not a metalurgist! <G>. That still
doesn't square with the statement about gauge however.

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Re: Track gaps - is there a better way?

Earl T. Hackett <hacketet@...>
 

I've never seen it either, but enough people using small rail sizes
have insisted that it occurs that I have to believe that something is
going on.

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Doug Stuard" <dstuard@...> wrote:

I'm familar with "sun kinks", but those are expansion/contraction vs
temperature and are reversable (up to a point). What you are
describing sounds more like an actual change in the metallic
structure.

A problem in any case, for sure, but not one I've ever seen in MRRing.

Doug Stuard
NVNTRAK