Date   
Re: Track & Wire Resistance

Earl Hackett <hacketet@...>
 

Here's my view:

Use the biggest, baddest hunk of copper wire you can afford (or dig up) for power wiring. Cost wise, stranded 14 ga is about it for me, except for the stuff I dug up at the scrap yard. Use solid Romex home wiring cable where possible as it's cheaper. I use heavily damped, dedicated 8 ga for my signal level ground.

The silver color on copper is a tin plating. When I was in the industry it was refered to as 'bright acid tin' plating and was often used as a solder aid in printed circuit boards by a variety of high end vendors. It helps maintain the soldering characteristics of very old wire and minimizes corrosion of stranded wire when used in a marine environment. It is of no importance in a model railroad application.

I know crimp connections are supposed to be permanent, air tight good things, but I solder everything anyway, including crimped terminals. IDC connections are fine for a few years inside a computer, but I'm looking for 20+ years of service.

Copper wire is copper, not an alloy. Typical purity is over 99.9%. Nickle silver rail has crap conductivity by comparison, but at least you can easily get good solder joints for the drops to the power bus. I don't know what the garden railroad modelers do with their 18-8 stainless rail.

Skin effect? The rise and fall times of the signal are pretty fast, but the basic signal frequency is slow, slower than a sleepy slug. The data is in the pulse widths and the error bands are a mile wide so who cares what the leading and trailing edges look like - as long as they don't blow a decoder with big honking voltage spikes. Read about unterminated tranmission lines. I don't know of anyone who has done a time domain study of their DCC wiring. Anyone who knew what that means would either know that it wouldn't much matter or would be afraid of knowing the result ;-)

I just spent a year rewiring my whole darn layout. The previous wiring was, by my assessment, a disaster, but trains (usually) ran just fine. At least when I didn't mess up and create a short. The new wiring is short (power bus lengths less than 20'), twisted pair, color coded, isolated, etc., etc. I don't see any difference in most train operations (I didn't expect to), but trouble shooting the thing is a whole lot easier.

Wiring for DCC is not all that complicated, but there are a few bear traps you should avoid. Short circuits are a BIG no no. They make life miserable. Avoid them. Then, avoid voltage drop. One thing I did correct with the new wiring was that some locos stalled (actually quit moving because they couldn't get the power to move the load) on a grade at the far end of my previous wiring. Keep wiring organized and blocked for easy troubleshooting. It really isn't all that more difficult than for plain old DC - in fact, IMHO, it is in many respects a whole lot easier. Don't get hung up on technical details that don't impact parformance and enjoy the new freedom of operation DCC provides.

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Fleming
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 8:03 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Track & Wire Resistance


.

Re: Occupancy Detection

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Sorry, I did not mean to imply use of a single detector inside the tunnel, but the use of a single signal head at each end guarding the entrance. Since there would be no one inside the tunnel to actually see the signals there is no point of putting a signal heads there. But you do need multiple detectors along the length of the tunnel (or a laser beam shooting down the track) in order to detect lost cars without current sensing type wheel sets. It is your choice as to whether or not there are multiple signal blocks or one long block (recommended) inside the tunnel. One interesting twist of using multiple detectors would be to provide an 'occupied' LED indicator for each detector along the path on the fascia panel. Operators could then view train progress (or lost cars) inside the tunnel. The signal head indications at tunnel entrances could still display the logical occupied/clear summation status of the whole tunnel for that direction.

INSIDE a tunnel, it might be more appropriate to provide a less costly array of Cds cells along the track combined with a matching overhead array of IR (or visible) LEDs. One could also use a horizontal break-the-lightbeam detector with the emitter and detector on opposite sides of the track rather than in the vertical detection. Slant the light path across the track to avoid false no-detect between cars. Rob Paisley has some very effective low cost circuits using '555 or LM339 or LM324 ICs. My choice would be to use a simple detector, one per Cds or phototransistor cell to light up along-the-path fascia panel indicator LEDs and combine the outputs of all the detectors with diode-OR logic for whole tunnel occupied/clear status.

My reflective IR train detectors are self contained. You provide operating power, regulated 5-15Vdc, and whatever it is the detector is supposed to be controlling. I supply emitter, detector, all circuitry to work in the dark, reject room light interference, provide on/off decision with hysteresis and sink up to 45 ma when an object is sensed in front of the sensor head. It all fits hidden in a 1/4 inch diameter hole in the track and is ~1.5 inches long. Sensing range is 5-60 mm, 1/4 ~ 2 1/4 inches.

I don't take any CC or PayPal. But contact me direct about accepting your personal check.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of steve kibort
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 9:09 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Occupancy Detection


Hello Don,

Still think that multiple detectors are needed in the tunnel. As I read
this you are suggesting one detector at each end of the tunnel but this
would not detect any runaway cars in the tunnel that might result from
and uncoupling in the tunnel. Getting the tunnel onto one electrical
zone/block, isolated from the others so if a short occurs anywhere else
on the layout it would not affect the tunnel would improve things a lot.
Not there yet but might do this as part of the signaling effort. What is
the maximum output load on your detector and does the price include the
LED and Phototransistor? Based on the length of the tunnel (30 feet
approx 3 train lengths) if would facilitate operations if two trains of
the same direction could be in the tunnel at the same time. A yellow
board at the tunnel entrance would facilitate this and it would seem to
me that an intermediate detector 10 feet into the tunnel would provide
for a yellow board at the entrance and 10 feet of separation. (there is
still the risk that a short could stop both trains in the tunnel and the
lead train might uncouple cars that could then be rear ended by the
following train when power is restored. Not sure of any solution to this
other than limiting one train in the tunnel at a time or provide for
intermediate signals on the panel facia board (but not all operators
can see this board) If the tunnel is separated onto its own isolated
electrical block the risk of stoppage would be minimized thus permitting
safer operation of multiple trains in the tunnel.

Do you take Master Card or Visa. I think I want to order a board so I
can see how it is assembled, the connections, etc and maybe set up a
block on a shorter tunnel (that is also more accessible) to get some
hands on experience with it.

Steve

Re: Track & Wire Resistance

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Robert, your observations are indeed correct. Most of that suff is just not that relevant. The bane of model railroading and DCC is poor electrical connections, short circuits and loss of signal strength due to impedance (resistance AND inductance) of unusually long or poorly designed wire runs.
Slip joint rail joiners are (or soon will be) poor electrical connections. Nickel-Silver rail is only a fair conductor of electricity. Solder many rail joiners and/or use multiple track feeder drops down to an under-the-table power distribution system of appropriate gauge copper wires to avoid those issues. What size wire? 14 AWG is more than adequate for HO scale (even #18 if you are running only a few trains at a time), 12 AWG for O scale. Use twisted pair or tightly coupled (like romex) to keep inductance to a minimum. Put an R-C terminator at the far end of any run longer than ~30ft from the booster. A good test of wiring integrity is the simple 'quarter' test...Put a quarter anywhere on the track to cause a short circuit, and the booster or other electronic circuit breaker device, should trip. If it doesn't trip, find and repair the poor electrical connection that is preventing enough current to flow so that it will do so.

The other half of wiring for DCC is to fix turnouts so that they continue to provide good electrical connections to the loco and don't cause accidental short circuits.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Robert Fleming
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 7:03 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Track & Wire Resistance


As a new member I am trying to understand wiring for DCC and have
read most of the relevant articles on the subject. The one
titled "Track & Wire Resistance" seems overly complicated and yet
leaves some of my questions unanswered. My background is as an
aerospace electronics engineer for some 20 years, but that was a
while back.

First, making your own measurements of wire resistance is reinventing
the wheel; this information can be obtained in MANY reference books.
For all practical purposes, solid and stranded wire have identical
resistance per foot. For short lengths of wire, the connections are
the lossy point, but soldering should solve that.

Any silver color on the wire would be a thin plating on small gauge
wire to improve solderability. I'm not sure what metal is used for
the plating. Power wire used in homes and commercial work would not
be plated. It is possible that an alloy of copper is used; never
heard much talk about it, and I doubt that it is important.

Measuring the resistance of the rails is another matter, particularly
in using nickel-silver. It might take a wheatstone bridge to do that.
I think a serious investigation of that would be important.

Skin effect is a university student exercise and a significant
subject matter that leads to microwave waveguides. Yes, microwave.
I'm not sure what the chopped DC frequency of DCC is, or what
harmonics result; I don't recall seeing that in my reading. But my
guess is that most of the harmonics are damped out by all the things
connected to the power source. So one would not see any skin effect
in model layouts, and seeing evidence of it with an LCR meter would
be impossible.

In aerospace wiring, a gas tight connection is usually a crimped
connection to a terminal lug. A star washer on a wire connection is
far from gas tight but is probably just as good in model layouts. I
would prefer a crimped lug. In industrial control equipment the
plating of the terminal lugs and terminal blocks is relied upon to
assure a non-corroding connection, even with low current circuits
("dry" contact). Sometimes compression connections are used where a
set screw bears down on the wire in a through hole.

Feel free to set me straight on these observations.




http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Yahoo Groups

Robert Fleming <robertfleming1@...>
 

Ok, deleted email address and will see what that does.

Another question: How do I see the complete thread without a lot of
clicking individual responses?

I frequent at least three very active handyman-type websites where I
answer questions for people; a couple of the forums are on HGTV. On
those forums, I can see the complete text of each response in linear
fashion on my monitor without all the email forwarding carets, etc.
Makes for very easy reading, in context. They also have an easily
accessible index of each forum so I can see the activity and pick a
question I want to respond to.

The best of the lot is www.handymanwire.com where I am a moderator on
a couple of the forums.

I have yet to find here an index page of the questions. How can I
access that directly from my Favorites list?

Bob

Re: Track & Wire Resistance

Robert Fleming <robertfleming1@...>
 

Earl:

I like your attitude!

I started out as an electrical engineer and when aerospace dried up,
became a general contractor. Power wiring is old hat to me, at least
up to 240V!

One can use busses of 14ga stranded THHN or the like, run in pairs or
more. This is the wire used in conduit. Insulation is TOUGH and the
wire is flexible. It is available at a home center in several colors.
Actually, in industrial work, 12ga is the smallest size commonly used
in conduit, but 14ga is easier to terminate. Using several colors
would give you color coding for identification. It is relatively
compact and could be snaked through small holes, when used for low
voltage.
Easiest termination would be crimp lugs, and they could be used on a
screw-type terminal strip. Soldering the lugs is even better. But I
guess that depends some on the humidity in your layout room. If it is
dry and you use insulated lugs, they will last "forever".
Of course, tin plate is the silver coloring on smaller gauge wire!
Should have remembered that.

Question: Is it common practice to run a power bus to the track every
4' or 8' or something like that?

Bob

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Earl Hackett" <hacketet@...>
wrote:

Here's my view:

Use the biggest, baddest hunk of copper wire you can afford (or dig
up) for power wiring. Cost wise, stranded 14 ga is about it for me,
except for the stuff I dug up at the scrap yard. Use solid Romex
home wiring cable where possible as it's cheaper. I use heavily
damped, dedicated 8 ga for my signal level ground.

The silver color on copper is a tin plating. When I was in the
industry it was refered to as 'bright acid tin' plating and was often
used as a solder aid in printed circuit boards by a variety of high
end vendors. It helps maintain the soldering characteristics of very
old wire and minimizes corrosion of stranded wire when used in a
marine environment. It is of no importance in a model railroad
application.

I know crimp connections are supposed to be permanent, air tight
good things, but I solder everything anyway, including crimped
terminals. IDC connections are fine for a few years inside a
computer, but I'm looking for 20+ years of service.

Copper wire is copper, not an alloy. Typical purity is over
99.9%. Nickle silver rail has crap conductivity by comparison, but
at least you can easily get good solder joints for the drops to the
power bus. I don't know what the garden railroad modelers do with
their 18-8 stainless rail.

Skin effect? The rise and fall times of the signal are pretty
fast, but the basic signal frequency is slow, slower than a sleepy
slug. The data is in the pulse widths and the error bands are a mile
wide so who cares what the leading and trailing edges look like - as
long as they don't blow a decoder with big honking voltage spikes.
Read about unterminated tranmission lines. I don't know of anyone
who has done a time domain study of their DCC wiring. Anyone who
knew what that means would either know that it wouldn't much matter
or would be afraid of knowing the result ;-)

I just spent a year rewiring my whole darn layout. The previous
wiring was, by my assessment, a disaster, but trains (usually) ran
just fine. At least when I didn't mess up and create a short. The
new wiring is short (power bus lengths less than 20'), twisted pair,
color coded, isolated, etc., etc. I don't see any difference in most
train operations (I didn't expect to), but trouble shooting the thing
is a whole lot easier.

Wiring for DCC is not all that complicated, but there are a few
bear traps you should avoid. Short circuits are a BIG no no. They
make life miserable. Avoid them. Then, avoid voltage drop. One
thing I did correct with the new wiring was that some locos stalled
(actually quit moving because they couldn't get the power to move the
load) on a grade at the far end of my previous wiring. Keep wiring
organized and blocked for easy troubleshooting. It really isn't all
that more difficult than for plain old DC - in fact, IMHO, it is in
many respects a whole lot easier. Don't get hung up on technical
details that don't impact parformance and enjoy the new freedom of
operation DCC provides.


----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Fleming
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 8:03 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Track & Wire Resistance


.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Track & Wire Resistance

Robert Fleming <robertfleming1@...>
 

Don:
Thanks for the comments. 14ga Romex, or better, single THHN would be
very easy to come by. You can get the THHN in a variety of colors at
a home center so you can bundle it and still trace the wiring. In the
layout I am building in my mind - so far - the THHN would be very
easy to conceal.

Bob

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Vollrath, Don" <dvollrath@...>
wrote:

Robert, your observations are indeed correct. Most of that suff is
just not that relevant. The bane of model railroading and DCC is
poor electrical connections, short circuits and loss of signal
strength due to impedance (resistance AND inductance) of unusually
long or poorly designed wire runs.
Slip joint rail joiners are (or soon will be) poor electrical
connections. Nickel-Silver rail is only a fair conductor of
electricity. Solder many rail joiners and/or use multiple track
feeder drops down to an under-the-table power distribution system of
appropriate gauge copper wires to avoid those issues. What size
wire? 14 AWG is more than adequate for HO scale (even #18 if you are
running only a few trains at a time), 12 AWG for O scale. Use
twisted pair or tightly coupled (like romex) to keep inductance to a
minimum. Put an R-C terminator at the far end of any run longer than
~30ft from the booster. A good test of wiring integrity is the
simple 'quarter' test...Put a quarter anywhere on the track to cause
a short circuit, and the booster or other electronic circuit breaker
device, should trip. If it doesn't trip, find and repair the poor
electrical connection that is preventing enough current to flow so
that it will do so.

The other half of wiring for DCC is to fix turnouts so that they
continue to provide good electrical connections to the loco and don't
cause accidental short circuits.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Robert Fleming
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 7:03 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Track & Wire Resistance


As a new member I am trying to understand wiring for DCC and have
read most of the relevant articles on the subject. The one
titled "Track & Wire Resistance" seems overly complicated and yet
leaves some of my questions unanswered. My background is as an
aerospace electronics engineer for some 20 years, but that was a
while back.

First, making your own measurements of wire resistance is
reinventing
the wheel; this information can be obtained in MANY reference
books.
For all practical purposes, solid and stranded wire have identical
resistance per foot. For short lengths of wire, the connections are
the lossy point, but soldering should solve that.

Any silver color on the wire would be a thin plating on small gauge
wire to improve solderability. I'm not sure what metal is used for
the plating. Power wire used in homes and commercial work would not
be plated. It is possible that an alloy of copper is used; never
heard much talk about it, and I doubt that it is important.

Measuring the resistance of the rails is another matter,
particularly
in using nickel-silver. It might take a wheatstone bridge to do
that.
I think a serious investigation of that would be important.

Skin effect is a university student exercise and a significant
subject matter that leads to microwave waveguides. Yes, microwave.
I'm not sure what the chopped DC frequency of DCC is, or what
harmonics result; I don't recall seeing that in my reading. But my
guess is that most of the harmonics are damped out by all the
things
connected to the power source. So one would not see any skin effect
in model layouts, and seeing evidence of it with an LCR meter would
be impossible.

In aerospace wiring, a gas tight connection is usually a crimped
connection to a terminal lug. A star washer on a wire connection is
far from gas tight but is probably just as good in model layouts. I
would prefer a crimped lug. In industrial control equipment the
plating of the terminal lugs and terminal blocks is relied upon to
assure a non-corroding connection, even with low current circuits
("dry" contact). Sometimes compression connections are used where a
set screw bears down on the wire in a through hole.

Feel free to set me straight on these observations.




http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Track & Wire Resistance

Earl Hackett <hacketet@...>
 

I don't trust rail joiners at all. I found several during my rewiring project that were not electrically conductive. I didn't notice before the rewiring project because I run a drop to every piece of rail. With normal 3' rail sections, I gang the drops at every other joint so it comes to a drop (I guess it is officially a pair of drops) every 6'. I avoid soldering rail joiners so they serve as expansion joints. If they are joining a little 3" section of filler rail I solder those - don't want to - well, you know.....

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Fleming
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 3:08 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Track & Wire Resistance


Earl:

I like your attitude!

I
Question: Is it common practice to run a power bus to the track every
4' or 8' or something like that?

Bob
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Re: Yahoo Groups

steve kibort <kibort@...>
 

Hello Bob,

I think that may be an operational weakness of Yahoo. If I find something that I am interested in I have to go back and read all the individual responses. Maybe there is a better way that I am not aware of.

Steve

Robert Fleming wrote:

Ok, deleted email address and will see what that does.

Another question: How do I see the complete thread without a lot of clicking individual responses?

I frequent at least three very active handyman-type websites where I answer questions for people; a couple of the forums are on HGTV. On those forums, I can see the complete text of each response in linear fashion on my monitor without all the email forwarding carets, etc. Makes for very easy reading, in context. They also have an easily accessible index of each forum so I can see the activity and pick a question I want to respond to.

The best of the lot is www.handymanwire.com where I am a moderator on a couple of the forums.

I have yet to find here an index page of the questions. How can I access that directly from my Favorites list?

Bob





http://www.WiringForDCC.com Yahoo! Groups Links





Re: Track & Wire Resistance

Earl Hackett <hacketet@...>
 

I use 14 ga. THHN wiring in a multitude of colors for everything except DC and AC power supply wiring, for which I use Romex solid 12 or 14 ga.

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Fleming
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 3:19 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Track & Wire Resistance


Don:
Thanks for the comments. 14ga Romex, or better, single THHN would be
very easy to come by. You can get the THHN in a variety of colors at
a home center so you can bundle it and still trace the wiring. In the
layout I am building in my mind - so far - the THHN would be very
easy to conceal.

Bob

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Vollrath, Don" <dvollrath@...>
wrote:
>
> Robert, your observations are indeed correct. Most of that suff is
just not that relevant. The bane of model railroading and DCC is
poor electrical connections, short circuits and loss of signal
strength due to impedance (resistance AND inductance) of unusually
long or poorly designed wire runs.
> Slip joint rail joiners are (or soon will be) poor electrical
connections. Nickel-Silver rail is only a fair conductor of
electricity. Solder many rail joiners and/or use multiple track
feeder drops down to an under-the-table power distribution system of
appropriate gauge copper wires to avoid those issues. What size
wire? 14 AWG is more than adequate for HO scale (even #18 if you are
running only a few trains at a time), 12 AWG for O scale. Use
twisted pair or tightly coupled (like romex) to keep inductance to a
minimum. Put an R-C terminator at the far end of any run longer than
~30ft from the booster. A good test of wiring integrity is the
simple 'quarter' test...Put a quarter anywhere on the track to cause
a short circuit, and the booster or other electronic circuit breaker
device, should trip. If it doesn't trip, find and repair the poor
electrical connection that is preventing enough current to flow so
that it will do so.
>
> The other half of wiring for DCC is to fix turnouts so that they
continue to provide good electrical connections to the loco and don't
cause accidental short circuits.
>
> DonV
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WiringForDCC@...
> [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Robert Fleming
> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 7:03 PM
> To: WiringForDCC@...
> Subject: [WiringForDCC] Track & Wire Resistance
>
>
> As a new member I am trying to understand wiring for DCC and have
> read most of the relevant articles on the subject. The one
> titled "Track & Wire Resistance" seems overly complicated and yet
> leaves some of my questions unanswered. My background is as an
> aerospace electronics engineer for some 20 years, but that was a
> while back.
>
> First, making your own measurements of wire resistance is
reinventing
> the wheel; this information can be obtained in MANY reference
books.
> For all practical purposes, solid and stranded wire have identical
> resistance per foot. For short lengths of wire, the connections are
> the lossy point, but soldering should solve that.
>
> Any silver color on the wire would be a thin plating on small gauge
> wire to improve solderability. I'm not sure what metal is used for
> the plating. Power wire used in homes and commercial work would not
> be plated. It is possible that an alloy of copper is used; never
> heard much talk about it, and I doubt that it is important.
>
> Measuring the resistance of the rails is another matter,
particularly
> in using nickel-silver. It might take a wheatstone bridge to do
that.
> I think a serious investigation of that would be important.
>
> Skin effect is a university student exercise and a significant
> subject matter that leads to microwave waveguides. Yes, microwave.
> I'm not sure what the chopped DC frequency of DCC is, or what
> harmonics result; I don't recall seeing that in my reading. But my
> guess is that most of the harmonics are damped out by all the
things
> connected to the power source. So one would not see any skin effect
> in model layouts, and seeing evidence of it with an LCR meter would
> be impossible.
>
> In aerospace wiring, a gas tight connection is usually a crimped
> connection to a terminal lug. A star washer on a wire connection is
> far from gas tight but is probably just as good in model layouts. I
> would prefer a crimped lug. In industrial control equipment the
> plating of the terminal lugs and terminal blocks is relied upon to
> assure a non-corroding connection, even with low current circuits
> ("dry" contact). Sometimes compression connections are used where a
> set screw bears down on the wire in a through hole.
>
> Feel free to set me straight on these observations.
>
>
>
>
> http://www.WiringForDCC.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Re: Isolating Yard Tracks

dougday2002
 

Graham,

I think it just plain old makes sense to isolate tracks in a yard or
on a spur. I use a single pole switch so I only "break" one of the
electrical legs to the track. It is nice for a lot of reasons
especially if you have an analog engine you like to run. It is a
great place to shut it off. Troubleshooting can become markedly
easier too.

Doug (OH)

Re: Isolating Yard Tracks

gl_capper
 

Ear and Doug

Thank you for your input. For the little extra work, I can see how
isolating the yard tracks will have advantages - so be it.

Cheers

Graham

Which Decoder?

emrldsky <emrldsky@...>
 

Hi Folks,
I want to install a decoder in each of 4 engines, all steamers. I
really only want forward and backwards (stop, of course). The
ability to turn lights on and off are not that important to me, as I
could hard wire them if necessary. If it does have lights, I do want
directional capability. Any sound would come much later, and
probably by a different decoder.
The engines I want to install into are:
1. IHC 2-8-0
2. Bachman J class, 4-8-4 (streamliner)
3. Bachman Spectrum 2-10-0 Decapod, DCC ready
4. Riv - older 4-8-4
So I am looking for a "basic" decoder, but one that will fit in the
engine, somewhere.
What do you folks suggest for the decoders, based on your experience
with reliability?


Thanks,

Mike G.

Re: Yahoo Groups

Robert Fleming <robertfleming1@...>
 

That is a pity. You would think Yahoo would be more up on the
technology! To see a good forum site, go to www.handymanwire.com and
click on expert forums.

I imagine everything comes with a price, and I know at HMW the
administrator is always fighting for financial survival.

Another good model RR site I just found is The Gauge; don't have the
actual URL in front of me.

Bob

--- In WiringForDCC@..., steve kibort <kibort@...> wrote:

Hello Bob,

I think that may be an operational weakness of Yahoo. If I find
something that I am interested in I have to go back and read all
the
individual responses. Maybe there is a better way that I am not
aware of.

Steve

Robert Fleming wrote:
Ok, deleted email address and will see what that does.

Another question: How do I see the complete thread without a lot
of
clicking individual responses?

I frequent at least three very active handyman-type websites
where I
answer questions for people; a couple of the forums are on HGTV.
On
those forums, I can see the complete text of each response in
linear
fashion on my monitor without all the email forwarding carets,
etc.
Makes for very easy reading, in context. They also have an easily
accessible index of each forum so I can see the activity and pick
a
question I want to respond to.

The best of the lot is www.handymanwire.com where I am a
moderator on
a couple of the forums.

I have yet to find here an index page of the questions. How can I
access that directly from my Favorites list?

Bob





http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links





Re: Yahoo Groups

steve kibort <kibort@...>
 

Thanks

Robert Fleming wrote:

That is a pity. You would think Yahoo would be more up on the
technology! To see a good forum site, go to www.handymanwire.com and
click on expert forums.

I imagine everything comes with a price, and I know at HMW the
administrator is always fighting for financial survival.

Another good model RR site I just found is The Gauge; don't have the
actual URL in front of me.

Bob

--- In WiringForDCC@..., steve kibort <kibort@...> wrote:

Hello Bob,

I think that may be an operational weakness of Yahoo. If I find
something that I am interested in I have to go back and read all
the

individual responses. Maybe there is a better way that I am not
aware of.

Steve

Robert Fleming wrote:

Ok, deleted email address and will see what that does.

Another question: How do I see the complete thread without a lot
of

clicking individual responses?

I frequent at least three very active handyman-type websites
where I

answer questions for people; a couple of the forums are on HGTV.
On

those forums, I can see the complete text of each response in
linear

fashion on my monitor without all the email forwarding carets,
etc.

Makes for very easy reading, in context. They also have an easily
accessible index of each forum so I can see the activity and pick
a

question I want to respond to.

The best of the lot is www.handymanwire.com where I am a
moderator on

a couple of the forums.

I have yet to find here an index page of the questions. How can I
access that directly from my Favorites list?

Bob





http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links










http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links





Ramp Meter

Bill <billroger@...>
 

Hi:
I have a ramp-meter which measures the voltage and current on my DCC layout. I'm diving the layout into two parts with a booster on one half and command/staion booster on the other. I want to measure the current of both halves. Without purchasing another meter how can I wire it up thru a switch to read both?

Bill

Re: Yahoo Groups

Greyhart
 

Those are forums, this is an email list. There are significant differences.

The forums are more like the BBS systems we used to have before the Internet became popular. Forums absolutely blow Yahoo, or any other email list away with what they can do, but each forum is modified programatically by the owner to look and act the way it does. Most people don't have the time, or the skills to pull off a really good forum.

The advantage that these email lists have over forums is that they are well known. I (or anyone else) can come to Yahoo and search for an email group to join that has topics of interest to me. Finding a specific forum without knowing its name, or that it even exists, is much more difficult.

Ken Biles
Sysop Castle Luna BBS
(1990 - 1997)


Robert Fleming wrote:

That is a pity. You would think Yahoo would be more up on the technology! To see a good forum site, go to www.handymanwire.com and click on expert forums.
I imagine everything comes with a price, and I know at HMW the administrator is always fighting for financial survival.
Another good model RR site I just found is The Gauge; don't have the actual URL in front of me.
Bob


Re: Yahoo Groups

Ross Kudlick <ross.kudlick@...>
 

If you read the messages on the Yahoo Groups site, there is in option to
"Group by Topic" This is a relatively recent update to Yahoo Groups.



Go to: www.groups.yahoo.com <http://www.groups.yahoo.com/>

Sign in

Open desired group

Click on "messages" on left side

Click on "Group by Topic" at top left of message pane



Hope this helps.



Ross



_____

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On
Behalf Of Robert Fleming
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 11:08 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Yahoo Groups



* That is a pity. You would think Yahoo would be
more up on the
technology! To see a good forum site, go to www.handymanwire.com and
click on expert forums.

I imagine everything comes with a price, and I know at HMW the
administrator is always fighting for financial survival.

Another good model RR site I just found is The Gauge; don't have the
actual URL in front of me.

Bob

--- In WiringForDCC@ <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, steve kibort <kibort@...> wrote:

Hello Bob,

I think that may be an operational weakness of Yahoo. If I find
something that I am interested in I have to go back and read all
the
individual responses. Maybe there is a better way that I am not
aware of.

Steve

Robert Fleming wrote:
Ok, deleted email address and will see what that does.

Another question: How do I see the complete thread without a lot
of
clicking individual responses?

Re: Ramp Meter

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Track connections of booster outputs should not be connected together (except when train wheels roll across the isolating gaps), but you need to cut open the connection between booster and rail in order to insert the ammeter. So...
You need a 4 pole double throw switch... or a 4PDT relay operated from a simple switch.

As written below: Flipped to Left = Read Booster 1, OR Flipped to Right = Read Booster 2.
Pole 1 - Opens Rail 1 connection from Track 1 output of booster 1, OR Closes Rail 1 to Track 1 of booster 1
Pole 2 - Closes Rail 1 to Track 1 of booster 2, OR opens Rail 1 connection from Track 1 output of booster 2
Pole 3 - RRAmpmeter 1 to Rail 1 of booster 1, OR RRAmpmeter 1 to Rail 1 of booster 2
Pole 4 - RRAmpmeter 2 to Track 1 output of booster 1, OR RRAMpmeter 2 to Track 1 output of booster 2

You might want to add a second SPST switch to short the two RRAmpmeter leads together, after the 4PDT switch/Relay. This would allow you to replace the ammeter connection with a jumper (the switch) so you can keep running trains while you use the RRAmpmeter elsewhere.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Bill
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 11:18 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Ramp Meter


Hi:
I have a ramp-meter which measures the voltage and current on my DCC layout. I'm diving the layout into two parts with a booster on one half and command/staion booster on the other. I want to measure the current of both halves. Without purchasing another meter how can I wire it up thru a switch to read both?

Bill






http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Which Decoder?

Earl Hackett <hacketet@...>
 

I've been quite happy with the TCS T-1 decoder. Excellent slow speed operation, automatic directional lighting based on direction of travel, and two functions are all it offers. They are quite small and required minimal adjustment to internal clearances. Cost is usually less than $20.

----- Original Message -----
From: emrldsky
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 7:44 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Which Decoder?


Hi Folks,
I want to install a decoder in each of 4 engines, all steamers. I
really only want forward and backwards (stop, of course). The
ability to turn lights on and off are not that important to me, as I
could hard wire them if necessary. If it does have lights, I do want
directional capability. Any sound would come much later, and
probably by a different decoder.
The engines I want to install into are:
1. IHC 2-8-0
2. Bachman J class, 4-8-4 (streamliner)
3. Bachman Spectrum 2-10-0 Decapod, DCC ready
4. Riv - older 4-8-4
So I am looking for a "basic" decoder, but one that will fit in the
engine, somewhere.
What do you folks suggest for the decoders, based on your experience
with reliability?

Thanks,

Mike G.

Re: Which Decoder?

Brent Barnes <brentbarnes309@...>
 

Earl,

Is the TCS T-1 a plug or plugless decoder? Either way, I assume it comes with a wiring diagram so I can get everything attached correctly. Thanks.

BB

Earl Hackett <hacketet@...> wrote: I've been quite happy with the TCS T-1 decoder. Excellent slow speed operation, automatic directional lighting based on direction of travel, and two functions are all it offers. They are quite small and required minimal adjustment to internal clearances. Cost is usually less than $20.

----- Original Message -----
From: emrldsky
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 7:44 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Which Decoder?

Hi Folks,
I want to install a decoder in each of 4 engines, all steamers. I
really only want forward and backwards (stop, of course). The
ability to turn lights on and off are not that important to me, as I
could hard wire them if necessary. If it does have lights, I do want
directional capability. Any sound would come much later, and
probably by a different decoder.
The engines I want to install into are:
1. IHC 2-8-0
2. Bachman J class, 4-8-4 (streamliner)
3. Bachman Spectrum 2-10-0 Decapod, DCC ready
4. Riv - older 4-8-4
So I am looking for a "basic" decoder, but one that will fit in the
engine, somewhere.
What do you folks suggest for the decoders, based on your experience
with reliability?

Thanks,

Mike G.