Date   

Re: new dcc HO layout

vincent marino
 

thanks Nick I appreciate your "2 cents". I'm going to get the layout figured out first then go to the wiring so I have a few weeks if not months before I get there. I appreciate all you guys giving me your opinion. 

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 9:16 AM, nick79ostr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

I'm in a similar situation (rejoining the hobby after 35 years with zero knowledge of DCC) and will give you my two cents based on my last year wrestling with similar questions.


Circuit breakers: if you have them, use them.  They are intended to prevent more serious damage elsewhere (decoders, etc.).  I use PSX (PSX-AR for reversing routes), and they made my wiring much simpler to understand, and saved me from what could have been expensive repairs as I learned my DCC wiring.  Plus they reset themselves.

Blocks: I think less is more.  I originally had about 10 for my 12x15, but after getting help in this forum I cut it to six, plus two reversing blocks (wye and loop).  I split my main yard into two blocks (north and south) with a third for the reverse loop, and then at logical break points along the main (I have three switchbacks so they are each one block).

I have the NCE, but not wireless, and am loving it so far.  I'll let others comment on your power requirements but from what you've said they sound about right from what I've read.



Re: new dcc HO layout

Nick Ostrosky
 

I'm in a similar situation (rejoining the hobby after 35 years with zero knowledge of DCC) and will give you my two cents based on my last year wrestling with similar questions.

Circuit breakers: if you have them, use them.  They are intended to prevent more serious damage elsewhere (decoders, etc.).  I use PSX (PSX-AR for reversing routes), and they made my wiring much simpler to understand, and saved me from what could have been expensive repairs as I learned my DCC wiring.  Plus they reset themselves.

Blocks: I think less is more.  I originally had about 10 for my 12x15, but after getting help in this forum I cut it to six, plus two reversing blocks (wye and loop).  I split my main yard into two blocks (north and south) with a third for the reverse loop, and then at logical break points along the main (I have three switchbacks so they are each one block).

I have the NCE, but not wireless, and am loving it so far.  I'll let others comment on your power requirements but from what you've said they sound about right from what I've read.


Re: new dcc HO layout

 

Hopefully this is not out of line as I am new to this group.  I have created a low cost alternative to active circuit breakers that you might be interested in.

http://voltscooter.com/?page_id=134

Ken Harstine
413-250-8298


Re: new dcc HO layout

vincent marino
 

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out. 

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong.  

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.  

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 2:32 PM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Vincent, I agree w/ Allan. Your layout can be handled easily with a single cab (the NCE ProCab) and a single 5 amp booster. But there must also be an NCE command station. Did you actually purchase an NCE ProwerPro wireless system that contains the command station (DCC brains) in the same box as the booster, and came with the ProCab hand-held throttle and plug-in power supply? The wireless system also comes with a wireless transmitter box and the ProCab should already have its part of the wireless transmitter built-in. Also get at least one  UTP universal plug panel for the NCE control bus for plug-in operation. You will need all those pieces.


For a single operator RR, separating your 8 x 12 layout into 6 circuit breaker power districts is overkill. Test your track and wiring as you build to prevent construction/connection issues. A single operator will easily know when and where derailments occur.

DonV   



Re: new dcc HO layout

dvollrath@...
 

Vincent, I agree w/ Allan. Your layout can be handled easily with a single cab (the NCE ProCab) and a single 5 amp booster. But there must also be an NCE command station. Did you actually purchase an NCE ProwerPro wireless system that contains the command station (DCC brains) in the same box as the booster, and came with the ProCab hand-held throttle and plug-in power supply? The wireless system also comes with a wireless transmitter box and the ProCab should already have its part of the wireless transmitter built-in. Also get at least one  UTP universal plug panel for the NCE control bus for plug-in operation. You will need all those pieces.

For a single operator RR, separating your 8 x 12 layout into 6 circuit breaker power districts is overkill. Test your track and wiring as you build to prevent construction/connection issues. A single operator will easily know when and where derailments occur.

DonV   


Re: new dcc HO layout

vincent marino
 

Allen, thank you for your reply. Yes I'm the sole operator.

I guess I should have joined the group prior to making any purchases.  

Since I already purchased the circuit breakers I guess I'll install them, it sounds like I'm approaching it correctly based upon your toggle suggestion even if it is an overkill.

I have a question concerning the NCE equipment I purchased. I don't know if you can help me with that. I bought Pro Cab R (wireless) and PB5 booster. Everything I read said the Pro Cab will run 2 loco but I'm interested in running up to 8 loco. Nothing I read gave any advice regarding the right booster for the wireless system. I purchased PB5 booster based upon what information I could pull from the NCE website. I hope it's correct I'm trying to find out before any installation takes place.

Hey man thanks again for taking the time to reply.   

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 11:51 AM, bigboy@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Vincent,


Your layout isn't large.  There may be a cheaper way to go.  How many operators will you have?


For a layout your size and I'm surmising that you won't be having operating sessions with lots of operators, it is fine to break your layout into the sections you suggest, but rather than using electronic circuit breakers, just use a toggle switch to kill the power to each section.


If you are a sole or couple of operators, when a train stops, it will probably be obvious where the problem occurred and you can solve it.  If not, start turning off sections until the problem goes away - you only have 6 max to turn off.  Not a big deal.  The last switch you turned off will tell you what section your problem is in and you can fix it.


Allan

Wiring For DCC



Re: new dcc HO layout

wirefordcc
 

Vincent,


Your layout isn't large.  There may be a cheaper way to go.  How many operators will you have?


For a layout your size and I'm surmising that you won't be having operating sessions with lots of operators, it is fine to break your layout into the sections you suggest, but rather than using electronic circuit breakers, just use a toggle switch to kill the power to each section.


If you are a sole or couple of operators, when a train stops, it will probably be obvious where the problem occurred and you can solve it.  If not, start turning off sections until the problem goes away - you only have 6 max to turn off.  Not a big deal.  The last switch you turned off will tell you what section your problem is in and you can fix it.


Allan

Wiring For DCC


new dcc HO layout

vincent marino
 

I just retired and want to build a 5x12 in my garage. DCC is way more sophisticated than the DC I'm used to. 

Questions:

1.  regarding NCE equipment:  Is pro cab r (wireless) and pb5 booster the right combination of components to run >2 and <10 locomotives? 

2.  Regarding power sections w/ circuit breakers. I was going to designate each main line (3), the yard, a turntable and all the dcc switches (turnouts and crossovers) into (6) separate power sections. Does this sound about right?


thanks for your help




Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com 
 
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.


Re: Large Gauge Ground Wire in Parallel with Loconet Gound Wires == Groundloop?

Chris Elliott
 

I have a DCS100 as the command station. In loconet port A I have a UR92 connected and that’s it. In loconet port B I have the loconet cable that runs to the other boosters. There are no other loconet devices connected anywhere. On the DCS100 the “home ground” is connected to the little digitrax installed pigtail. This pigtail is connected to a lug which is held against the rear heat sink.. 

The “home ground” wire runs for approx 14 metres before reaching the first and second boosters, it is a 2.5 millimetre cable (approx awg 13) It does not connect to anything else.
The “home ground” wire connects to the ground terminal on the front of a DB210 and then daisy chains off to the second DB210 and connects the same way.

I had previously wired a friends layout which has a DCS100 and six DB150’s configured as boosters. I had cut the loconet cables as described in Alan Gartners “booster wiring” and it works without issue.

So when I installed the booster loconet cable on my layout, I cut the wires as described on Alan’s website and as I’d done previously. But the DB210’s would not wake up. The LEDs on the front on the DB210 were not correct and trains would not run on the DB210s power districts. The both rails at boundary between power districts are gaped and insulated. Reterminating the booster loconet cable so that all 6 wires are connected corrected the issue.


Sent from planet earth

On 30 Dec 2017, at 11:53, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

How did you make the ground connection?  Details please.

On Dec 26, 2017, at 6:51 PM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Yes, I had installed a heavy gauge “home ground” between the boosters and command station. 

Sent from planet earth

On 27 Dec 2017, at 11:15, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:


Did you have the ground wire installed?


On Dec 24, 2017, at 8:28 PM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



I’ve found that the new digitrax boosters won’t come on line if the ground wires in the loconet cables are cut.
Chris Elliott

Sent from planet earth

On 25 Dec 2017, at 04:50, nwsteamer modelrr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Mark,

The way I read this statement the large gauge wire in parallel to the 
Loconet 'ground'  wires does constitute a 'loop' and could cause a 
reliability problem.

Thus, the recommendation in Allan Gartner's website to cut the Loconet 
'grounds' at the boosters is valid.  Do you agree?

On 12/24/2017 05:03 AM, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] 
wrote:
> Adding the large gauge parallel ground wire permitting a ground loop 
> to be establish is the LESSER of the two evils. 




Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com







Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com




Re: Large Gauge Ground Wire in Parallel with Loconet Gound Wires == Groundloop?

Mark Gurries
 

How did you make the ground connection?  Details please.

On Dec 26, 2017, at 6:51 PM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Yes, I had installed a heavy gauge “home ground” between the boosters and command station. 

Sent from planet earth

On 27 Dec 2017, at 11:15, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:


Did you have the ground wire installed?


On Dec 24, 2017, at 8:28 PM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



I’ve found that the new digitrax boosters won’t come on line if the ground wires in the loconet cables are cut.
Chris Elliott

Sent from planet earth

On 25 Dec 2017, at 04:50, nwsteamer modelrr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Mark,

The way I read this statement the large gauge wire in parallel to the 
Loconet 'ground'  wires does constitute a 'loop' and could cause a 
reliability problem.

Thus, the recommendation in Allan Gartner's website to cut the Loconet 
'grounds' at the boosters is valid.  Do you agree?

On 12/24/2017 05:03 AM, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] 
wrote:
> Adding the large gauge parallel ground wire permitting a ground loop 
> to be establish is the LESSER of the two evils. 




Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com







Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com




Re: Speaker connections on TSC 21-HWM 21 pin connectors

 


Re: Large Gauge Ground Wire in Parallel with Loconet Gound Wires == Groundloop?

Chris Elliott
 

Yes, I had installed a heavy gauge “home ground” between the boosters and command station. 

Sent from planet earth

On 27 Dec 2017, at 11:15, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

Did you have the ground wire installed?


On Dec 24, 2017, at 8:28 PM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



I’ve found that the new digitrax boosters won’t come on line if the ground wires in the loconet cables are cut.
Chris Elliott

Sent from planet earth

On 25 Dec 2017, at 04:50, nwsteamer modelrr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Mark,

The way I read this statement the large gauge wire in parallel to the 
Loconet 'ground'  wires does constitute a 'loop' and could cause a 
reliability problem.

Thus, the recommendation in Allan Gartner's website to cut the Loconet 
'grounds' at the boosters is valid.  Do you agree?

On 12/24/2017 05:03 AM, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] 
wrote:
> Adding the large gauge parallel ground wire permitting a ground loop 
> to be establish is the LESSER of the two evils. 




Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com




Speaker connections on TSC 21-HWM 21 pin connectors

Richard Sutcliffe
 

I am installing a 21pin sound decoder in a P2K RDC

I have a a TCS 21-HWM connector that has solder pads for adding wires. There are 9 pads are nicely labled with NMRA colours on the pin side, and 3 none tined pads on the other side. These 3 pads are not labled.
I need to find the connections for the speaker, and am curious about the third pad.
I haven’t found any detail on these 3 pads on the TCS website.

Dick Sutcliffe
General Manager
Bradley, Roger & Tidewater Rwy.
Cariboo Traction Company


Re: Large Gauge Ground Wire in Parallel with Loconet Gound Wires == Groundloop?

Mark Gurries
 

Did you have the ground wire installed?


On Dec 24, 2017, at 8:28 PM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



I’ve found that the new digitrax boosters won’t come on line if the ground wires in the loconet cables are cut.
Chris Elliott

Sent from planet earth

On 25 Dec 2017, at 04:50, nwsteamer modelrr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Mark,

The way I read this statement the large gauge wire in parallel to the 
Loconet 'ground'  wires does constitute a 'loop' and could cause a 
reliability problem.

Thus, the recommendation in Allan Gartner's website to cut the Loconet 
'grounds' at the boosters is valid.  Do you agree?

On 12/24/2017 05:03 AM, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] 
wrote:
> Adding the large gauge parallel ground wire permitting a ground loop 
> to be establish is the LESSER of the two evils. 




Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com




Re: Large Gauge Ground Wire in Parallel with Loconet Gound Wires == Groundloop?

Mark Gurries
 

A true ground loop requires the following.

1) Two parallel current paths.

2) The mixing of two independent currents that should not be mixed together.

Eliminate one or the other eliminates the problem.

The current we do not want to be shared on the Loconet ground is the locomotive current. Fortunately we know that the undesirable locomotive currents originate and end only at the booster locations.

So the solution is to find a way for the locomotive current to flow down the booster ground wire and not the loconet ground.

Additional interesting facts are

1) Booster do not use the Loconet signals. They only monitor the RailSync signals on the Loconet cable during normal operation.

2) Railsync is a lot less sensitive to the problems related to ground current

We can use these two pieces of information to help identify the solution.

To eliminate the "ground loop" would require Splitting the loconet cable right at the command station location into two separate Loconet busses.

a) A Loconet bus for all devices other than the boosters. Call this Throttle Loconet.
b) A Loconet bus for just the boosters. Call this Booster Loconet

With the Throttle Loconet bus and the Booster Loconet bus only tied to each other at a SINGLE point where the command station is located, the two Loconet bus grounds are connected but they will not have the same paths and therefor will not have the same currents on their respective ground wires.

With the Throttle Loconet, we know we only have Railsync signal current and Loconet signal current on the ground.
With the Booster Loconet, we know we only have Railsync signal current and Locomotive current on the ground.

Now you run the Booster Loconet ONLY between Boosters. Do not connect it to any other type of Loconet Device. It only connect to the Command Station at the command station location with a RJ splitter. Now there is no reason for locomotive current to flow down the Throttle Loconet Bus because there is no booster connected to it. It is an Open Circuit as far a Locomotive current goes.

Just doing that one step alone breaks the locomotive current off the Throttle Loconet bus for all the devices that need the reliable loconet signal communication. Technically we now no longer have a ground loop since we are not mixing independent currents much anymore. The only remaining problem is the fact that on the Booster Loconet we can still have momentarily high DC current flowing down the small gauge wires. We solve that by running our large wire gauge wire between the booster grounds. Yes the wires are in parallel, but they are NOW carrying the same current at the same time between the exact same locations. There is no ground loop.

One could cut the ground wires out of the Booster Loconet cable to force 100% of the locomotive ground current to run on the large wire but with reasons to do so are greatly diminished. The locomotive current will naturally choose the large gauge wire since it the path of least resistance.




On Dec 24, 2017, at 9:50 AM, nwsteamer modelrr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Mark,

The way I read this statement the large gauge wire in parallel to the
Loconet 'ground' wires does constitute a 'loop' and could cause a
reliability problem.

Thus, the recommendation in Allan Gartner's website to cut the Loconet
'grounds' at the boosters is valid. Do you agree?


On 12/24/2017 05:03 AM, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC]
wrote:
Adding the large gauge parallel ground wire permitting a ground loop
to be establish is the LESSER of the two evils.


------------------------------------
Posted by: nwsteamer <modelrr@...>
------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.com
------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com


Re: Large Gauge Ground Wire in Parallel with Loconet Gound Wires == Groundloop?

Chris Elliott
 

I’ve found that the new digitrax boosters won’t come on line if the ground wires in the loconet cables are cut.
Chris Elliott

Sent from planet earth

On 25 Dec 2017, at 04:50, nwsteamer modelrr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

Mark,

The way I read this statement the large gauge wire in parallel to the
Loconet 'ground'  wires does constitute a 'loop' and could cause a
reliability problem.

Thus, the recommendation in Allan Gartner's website to cut the Loconet
'grounds' at the boosters is valid.  Do you agree?

On 12/24/2017 05:03 AM, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC]
wrote:
> Adding the large gauge parallel ground wire permitting a ground loop
> to be establish is the LESSER of the two evils.


Re: Large Gauge Ground Wire in Parallel with Loconet Gound Wires == Groundloop?

nwsteamer
 

Mark,

The way I read this statement the large gauge wire in parallel to the Loconet 'ground'  wires does constitute a 'loop' and could cause a reliability problem.

Thus, the recommendation in Allan Gartner's website to cut the Loconet 'grounds' at the boosters is valid.  Do you agree?

On 12/24/2017 05:03 AM, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
Adding the large gauge parallel ground wire permitting a ground loop to be establish is the LESSER of the two evils.


Re: Large Gauge Ground Wire in Parallel with Loconet Gound Wires == Groundloop?

Mark Gurries
 


On Dec 14, 2017, at 1:00 PM, modelrr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



In Allan Gartner's Wiring For DCC website, Booster Network Wiring, RECOMMENDATION #4-6: Run a Heavy Ground Wire Between Your Boosters:, the wiring diagram indicates cutting the two ground wires in the booster Loconet wires and adding a large gauge ground connection between the command station and the each of the boosters.  (Yes he was discussing wiring Digitrax equipment which is what my club has.)

The stated reason is to prevent ground loops causing possible erratic behavior.  

On Mark Gurries' website or the only mention of ground loops is in stating not to connect the booster network ground to house earth ground.  Again, erratic behavior may result.

Larry Puckett, the DCCguy.com website also advocates the ground wire but does not mention ground loops.  He did not mention them in his recent Model Railroader article.

Question: does the large gauge booster network ground wire and the parallel Loconet ground wires constitute a ground loop that may cause problems.  Or are they just wires in parallel.  


Your mixing up two separate problems.

1) Ground Loops involving Earth Ground versus DCC system ground (Booster Ground/ Booster common)

2) The problem of Booster Track Current flowing in Loconet Ground wires.


Your question has nothing to do with Earth Ground.  So #1 is not being discussed.   Your question is #2.


Setup: Two Booster Districts meet each other at a rail joint consisting of double insulated rail joiners (gaps).   Booster X powers the track on the left side of the rail joiners and Booster Y powers the track on the right.  (This has nothing to do with existence of DCC circuit breakers).

Situation:  As a given engine moves across the double insulated rail joiners, the engine will become powered by BOTH boosters at the same time until is completes the crossing.

Operating Problem:  Any locomotive with offset wheel pickup will stall unless the booster X and booster Y have a ground connection between them.  Even if you have a locomotive with all wheel pickup, electrical pickup is never perfect and there is the potential for the locomotive to have offset wheel pickup momentarily for multiple of reasons.  In this case the locomotive will not cross cleany unless you have ground connection between the two boosters involved.

Electrical Problem.  At that moment in time where offset wheel pickup is taking place, the only way current can continue to flow is if the locomotive current is carried between the two boosters via the ground wire.  No ground wire, then you have an open circuit situation and the locomotive loses power.

LOCONET SITUATION:   The loconet cable consist of 6 26AWG or 28AWG wires.  Two of these wires are in parallel to form the “ground" connection.  The ground wires carry the following current

1) Loconet return current.   Very Low current.  Loconet communication.
2) Railsync return current.  Low current.  Booster Signal communication and low current power source for plug in throttles and some loconet devices.
3) Booster ground current.   Momentary Very HIGH Current.  The current flowing depends on the size and efficiency of the locomotive motors for a given scale.

These small gauge wires are NOT designed to support high current flow.   The voltage drop in the wire will be proportional to the length of the wire and the magnitude of the current flowing in it.   

LOCONET PROBLEM:  When you have a locomotive with an offset wheel pickup problem, the locomotive current will flow in the LOCONET Ground wires.  These Motor currents are much much higher the Loconet or railsynce current in the same ground wires.  The higher the current draw of the motor, the higher the voltage drop that will appear across the ground wire between the two boosters.  The momentarily very high voltage drop can prevent reliable communication of Loconet or Railsynce or both at the same time.  The problem can go away one the locomotive completes the power district crossing.

SOLUTION:  Since we cannot change the gauge of the wire in the Loconet cable to support the motor currents, then a parallel wire of a significantly higher gauge must be run between the boosters ground terminals.   This effectively reduces the voltage drop in the loconet ground.  Furthermore since it runs directly from booster to booster with lower resistance than found in the Loconet cable, the motor current will freely choose the lower resistance path and flow in the large wire between the two boosters removing most of that current flow from Loconet wires.  In other words, you greatly relieved the Loconet ground of the responsibility of supporting locomotive current flow.  Loconet and Railsynce communication will be more reliable now that it is being unmolested by the independent and very noisy locomotive current.


Is it a ground loop?  Technically yes.   But in this specific case the design of the loconet bus brings with it an electrical design flaw straight from the factory.   The permitting of Locomotive current to flow on the Loconet ground.    With small layouts and/or small scale layouts in practice this is not much of a problem.  The loconet cables are short and/or the locomotive currents are low.   But it become a big problem on very large layouts and/or large scale layouts where the loconet cables are long and the locomotive current can be very high.   Adding the large gauge parallel ground wire permitting a ground loop to be establish is the LESSER of the two evils.   


In the case of my club all the Loconet connections are daisy chained with a lot of intermediate connections.  So the large gauge wire is shorter with no interrupting connections.

Great.  That is the best you can do.


Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com




Re: Wireless DCC tether between steam engine and tender

Gary Chudzinski
 

DonV and Wouter,

Thanks for the suggestions. Actually, I have installed two decoders in the past and wanted to see if there is a simpler  way to program each decoder separately than the method I used.

Gary C


Re: TinyCad

Edward Sargent
 

Thanks, I figured as much and have created 3 so far.   

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 1:38 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: TinyCad

 

 

You'll need to generate your own symbols and this is relatively simple. TinyCad is a schematic capture program meant to interface with PWB software.

Leonard Jaskiewicz
len.jask@...