1. w4dccqa@groups.io
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Re: Two Questions

Mark Cartwright <marcdecapri@...>
 

On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 04:12 PM, jwg766 atx wrote:
Atlas SD-9, model #53508
John, 

As I remember, the nomenclature is for a two part semi drop in decoder is TCS-CN
However...I do not believe it is still made today.
http://www.fiferhobby.com/tcs-train-control-systems-dcc-decoders/
=====
A few years ago, I came upon a distressed Altas SD-9 which was already equipped with such a decoder but came with one more decoder still in the package.
This became one of my favorite projects and ultimately one of my best runners.
====
I took it down to it's base parts, and then ran toothpaste through the geared trucks, running them back and forth on track, till I felt them loosening up, cleaning them with a water pic,
There was a high spot on the Worm Gear...Corrected.
But as I recall several other parts needed a bit of fine sanding and filing.  Once all the parts were a bit freer, and fitted > I oiled the worm gear assembly only, and reassembled. 
====
The previous owner believed the shell had been melted but it turned out to be only the D&RG Decals. The shell broke down into three parts and were easily painted with a light spray of Rustoleum Camouflage Paint...I renumbered it 5350 in large numerals.
This became a primary tester for long runs on my DCC Main Layout.
====
Good Runner ? YES!
However, I happened to have a similar SD in Brass sitting near by. Just for a Look See, I placed the Brass shell over the Atlas Chassis 
Wow! 
It hunkered down, making even better contact with the track; without being overly weighted.
>>> Since that day, I have modified several Brass Shells to fit over more modern (5 pole) chassis locomotives both in N and HO Scale; while being converted to DCC.
===============================
As for your first question....
On Track Detection.
I am working on it....
Via three very different approaches.
This is one of them....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qUJcdL9Gko

Just showed up on eBay one day with a. Buy it Now for $300 and I pushed the button.
I also own Digitrax and ESU ECoS....
Wish me Luck
:)) Mark
Re: Jack Wabbit

David S <docdata3d@...>
 
Edited

Follow up....  Turns out the firat decoder on the JW board had a defect and could not be renumbered.  A new board is on the way.  Everything else worked great!
Re: Jack Wabbit

David S <docdata3d@...>
 

I received a private email from a very helpful person who explained what I needed to know  and my test scenario works fine, including being able to move the Tortoise by DCC and by pushbutton! Now, I need to change the ID's fromt the default 1,2,3 & 4 to 9,10,11 & 12. The instructions are very cnfusing and, im my case, no help at all. Anyone know how to program this?
Re: Jack Wabbit

Bill Wilken
 

I've done the same, with a cheap little 5 volt transformer that powers over 20 turnouts via DBDT micro switches.  In the interest of simplicity, I arranged all of the micro switches so that a throw to the right indicates "straight-through" and a throw to the left indicates "diverging," eliminating the need for any red/green indicator lights.

On 1/28/19 9:55 PM, Rich Randall via Groups.Io wrote:
I use a separate DC power source (bus) for my tortoise controls. The power goes to the toggle switch or other selector to drive the tortoise pins 1 and 8 one way or the other. If you want to use track power, you have to rectify it with diodes and set up some clever toggle arrangement. DCC simply acts like AC power. I think the voltage is too high for a tortoise, so use resistors to knock it down.

I route DCC from the track (as close as possible to the switch) to one of the tortoise relays to change the frog polarity. I have to make sure the right polarity goes to the right pin.

Rich

Rich Randall
Gettysburg, PA

Re: Jack Wabbit

Carl
 

Hi Gang:

I know it is tempting to use the DCC track power for extra loads. But why would you use a power supply that costs big bucks to do a job a simple wall transformer can? Plus I can't help to think the extra loads get in the way of the DCC signal to the locomotives.

Now there is also an option of LCC to take the signals for non locomotive loads: turnout control and track side signals.

Carl.

On 1/28/2019 9:55 PM, Rich Randall via Groups.Io wrote:
I use a separate DC power source (bus) for my tortoise controls. The power goes to the toggle switch or other selector to drive the tortoise pins 1 and 8 one way or the other. If you want to use track power, you have to rectify it with diodes and set up some clever toggle arrangement. DCC simply acts like AC power. I think the voltage is too high for a tortoise, so use resistors to knock it down.

I route DCC from the track (as close as possible to the switch) to one of the tortoise relays to change the frog polarity. I have to make sure the right polarity goes to the right pin.

Rich

Rich Randall
Gettysburg, PA

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Jack Wabbit

Rich Randall
 

I use a separate DC power source (bus) for my tortoise controls. The power goes to the toggle switch or other selector to drive the tortoise pins 1 and 8 one way or the other. If you want to use track power, you have to rectify it with diodes and set up some clever toggle arrangement. DCC simply acts like AC power. I think the voltage is too high for a tortoise, so use resistors to knock it down.

I route DCC from the track (as close as possible to the switch) to one of the tortoise relays to change the frog polarity. I have to make sure the right polarity goes to the right pin.

Rich

Rich Randall
Gettysburg, PA
Re: Jack Wabbit

Bill Wilken
 

I connect JW to track power on a DCC system and it works without a hitch


On Jan 28, 2019, at 8:40 PM, David S <docdata3d@...> wrote:

The instructions suggest setting up a test scenario initially. I’m going to do that but it leaves me hanging on the use of DC vs DCC vs DC etc, etc.


On Jan 28, 2019, at 8:28 PM, Bill Wilken <bill.wilken@...> wrote:

David,

You can power your Tortoise machines with a small 5 volt transformer.  
The JW documentation is not very user friendly, but if you read it carefully, all the info you need is there.  If you are still uncomfortable, I suggest that you set up a little off-layout testbed with just a transformer, the JW, and one switch machine.  

Bill


On Jan 28, 2019, at 4:43 PM, David S <docdata3d@...> wrote:

I posted this on another DCC groups but no answer yet so here it goes again.

I just purchased a Jack Wabbit Quad for Tortoise switch machines and have some questions prior to wiring it up.  I'm emailing with Erick at the place where it was purchased but so far, I'm still not understanding everything I need in know.

The unit can be powered by DCC track voltage or external DC.   The Tortoise switch machines need to DC to operate but need the DCC to get the signal to throw the machine. 

So, if the JW is powered by DCC, where does the DC come in for Tortoise throws?  If it is powered by DC, where do the DCC signals come from to tell the Tortoise to switch?

If I powered it with DCC, can I still use the manual pushbuttons to throw the machines or is pushbutton use only for DC power to the JW only?

Thanks,
Dave

Re: Jack Wabbit

David S <docdata3d@...>
 

The instructions suggest setting up a test scenario initially. I’m going to do that but it leaves me hanging on the use of DC vs DCC vs DC etc, etc.


On Jan 28, 2019, at 8:28 PM, Bill Wilken <bill.wilken@...> wrote:

David,

You can power your Tortoise machines with a small 5 volt transformer.  
The JW documentation is not very user friendly, but if you read it carefully, all the info you need is there.  If you are still uncomfortable, I suggest that you set up a little off-layout testbed with just a transformer, the JW, and one switch machine.  

Bill


On Jan 28, 2019, at 4:43 PM, David S <docdata3d@...> wrote:

I posted this on another DCC groups but no answer yet so here it goes again.

I just purchased a Jack Wabbit Quad for Tortoise switch machines and have some questions prior to wiring it up.  I'm emailing with Erick at the place where it was purchased but so far, I'm still not understanding everything I need in know.

The unit can be powered by DCC track voltage or external DC.   The Tortoise switch machines need to DC to operate but need the DCC to get the signal to throw the machine. 

So, if the JW is powered by DCC, where does the DC come in for Tortoise throws?  If it is powered by DC, where do the DCC signals come from to tell the Tortoise to switch?

If I powered it with DCC, can I still use the manual pushbuttons to throw the machines or is pushbutton use only for DC power to the JW only?

Thanks,
Dave

Re: Jack Wabbit

Bill Wilken
 

David,

You can power your Tortoise machines with a small 5 volt transformer.  
The JW documentation is not very user friendly, but if you read it carefully, all the info you need is there.  If you are still uncomfortable, I suggest that you set up a little off-layout testbed with just a transformer, the JW, and one switch machine.  

Bill


On Jan 28, 2019, at 4:43 PM, David S <docdata3d@...> wrote:

I posted this on another DCC groups but no answer yet so here it goes again.

I just purchased a Jack Wabbit Quad for Tortoise switch machines and have some questions prior to wiring it up.  I'm emailing with Erick at the place where it was purchased but so far, I'm still not understanding everything I need in know.

The unit can be powered by DCC track voltage or external DC.   The Tortoise switch machines need to DC to operate but need the DCC to get the signal to throw the machine. 

So, if the JW is powered by DCC, where does the DC come in for Tortoise throws?  If it is powered by DC, where do the DCC signals come from to tell the Tortoise to switch?

If I powered it with DCC, can I still use the manual pushbuttons to throw the machines or is pushbutton use only for DC power to the JW only?

Thanks,
Dave

Jack Wabbit

David S <docdata3d@...>
 

I posted this on another DCC groups but no answer yet so here it goes again.

I just purchased a Jack Wabbit Quad for Tortoise switch machines and have some questions prior to wiring it up.  I'm emailing with Erick at the place where it was purchased but so far, I'm still not understanding everything I need in know.

The unit can be powered by DCC track voltage or external DC.   The Tortoise switch machines need to DC to operate but need the DCC to get the signal to throw the machine. 

So, if the JW is powered by DCC, where does the DC come in for Tortoise throws?  If it is powered by DC, where do the DCC signals come from to tell the Tortoise to switch?

If I powered it with DCC, can I still use the manual pushbuttons to throw the machines or is pushbutton use only for DC power to the JW only?

Thanks,
Dave
Re: Wiring help needed

Carl
 

Hello Tim:

The isolated track can also be wired as a program track. Then once programmed you can switch to DCC and test run the locomotive without picking it up.

Carl.

On 1/22/2019 11:52 AM, Don Vollrath wrote:
Tim, If the layout is indeed that of https://www.trainsetsonly.com/page/TSO/PROD/150-HO16 as Jay has suggested then...
1. There are no reversing loops so no DCC polarity reverser is needed.
2, You might want to isolate one or more sections for either electronic circuit breaker or track occupancy detectors for signaling, etc. Passing sidings are a good location for this.
3. The easiest way to do #2 is to provide plastic isolating joiners on all 4 rails of the frog end of mainline turnouts/track switches.
4. Doing #3 forces you to provide individual DCC power feeders to all isolated sections of track. Drop these feeders down under the layout to connect to either a common DCC bus following the general flow of track... OR as each track section is fed through individual occupancy sensors or circuit breakers added now or later to suit your plans.
5. Put your DCC command station/booster near the middle of the layout "L" and fan out the DCC track power bus in both directions to flow under the layout, but do not connect it up into a continuous loop. Use #18 or larger wire for the DCC main bus... in twisted pair or 'zip' cord.
6. If you plan on using accessory decoders make provisions for a separate DCC feeder sub-bus to power those units. In that case provide an electronic CB (PSX is the suggested brand) for the main DCC bus feeding the track and wire up the accessory sub-bus directly from the booster output.  

DonV

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Wiring help needed

Don Vollrath
 

Tim, If the layout is indeed that of https://www.trainsetsonly.com/page/TSO/PROD/150-HO16 as Jay has suggested then...
1. There are no reversing loops so no DCC polarity reverser is needed.
2, You might want to isolate one or more sections for either electronic circuit breaker or track occupancy detectors for signaling, etc. Passing sidings are a good location for this.
3. The easiest way to do #2 is to provide plastic isolating joiners on all 4 rails of the frog end of mainline turnouts/track switches.
4. Doing #3 forces you to provide individual DCC power feeders to all isolated sections of track. Drop these feeders down under the layout to connect to either a common DCC bus following the general flow of track... OR as each track section is fed through individual occupancy sensors or circuit breakers added now or later to suit your plans.
5. Put your DCC command station/booster near the middle of the layout "L" and fan out the DCC track power bus in both directions to flow under the layout, but do not connect it up into a continuous loop. Use #18 or larger wire for the DCC main bus... in twisted pair or 'zip' cord.
6. If you plan on using accessory decoders make provisions for a separate DCC feeder sub-bus to power those units. In that case provide an electronic CB (PSX is the suggested brand) for the main DCC bus feeding the track and wire up the accessory sub-bus directly from the booster output.  

DonV
Re: Wiring help needed

Jay
 

Re: Wiring help needed

Chuck Stiles
 

Tim

I don't have access to the Atlas layout design you refereed to so I don't want to comment on the specifics of the layout or if it would require a PM42.
I do know this from experience. You can wire and Run your layout with the Zephyr. Wiring provision for a future PM42 might be advised. If you can Post a copy of your layout to the Group may make things easier.
Placement of the plastic insulation joiners is critical. Now is the time to decide what you want to do with your layout in the future, and install your buss wiring accordingly. Take into consideration if you want to create blocks, and possibly future automated signaling, operating crossing gates etc. Trying to create blocks at a later date can be more difficult.

Good Luck
Chuck
Brick NJ 
Re: Wiring help needed

Jerry Michels
 

Tim,

You got the basic idea, the PM42 would be wired after the Zephyr, and then out to the layout.  The PM42 provides short circuit protection, but also gives you the ability to divide the layout into four separate blocks, each with its own short-circuit protection.  So if a train derails in one of the blocks, trains keep running in the other three.  The block with the short circuit will automatically reset itself once the short is removed.

One note, if you do decide to buy a PM42, also buy the PM42 breakout board offered by Accu-Lites.  It make installation very, very easy.  If not, you are looking a using a 44-pin connector which you need to wire yourself.
 
Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum
Re: N scale DCC locomotive

Jay
 
Edited

This may have been overkill on my part.
All of my engines have decoders in them.
The Double Headed units are consisted in JMRI.
This was under the consist tab in JMRI.
Each consist is given their own address.
Even my 4 unit passenger consist is one address.
This makes life much easier.

Jay
Re: N scale DCC locomotive

Don Poitras
 

Hello Glenn,Understood.Other than disconnecting them electrically,to follow the lead loco,would I have to have decoders in all of them and program them individually in my power cab and controll them individually?I apologise,if these questions sound silly and stupid to you,but I honestly don't have a clue.This is all new to me and bottom line....I'm hooked on trains!If you could help me ,you'd be my HERO!👍😁Don....have a good one!
From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> on behalf of Glenn <ghazel@...>
Sent: January 20, 2019 6:47:56 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] N scale DCC locomotive
 
NO!

The motors would not run and possibly overheat with the DCC current on the rails.

With the motors not running you would only be dragging the engines.

The only way you could accomplish coupling the engines together would be disconnecting them electrically and removing gears at the axle letting the wheels turn freely.

Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: donvicpoitras@...
Sent: Jan 20, 2019 4:21 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] N scale DCC locomotive

Can my n scale  DCC decoder equipped locomotive haul other locomotives that are analogue or only DCC ready on my future n scale DCC layout or do they all have to have decoders and programmed to my nce power cab?Thanks,Don

Re: N scale DCC locomotive

Glenn
 

NO!

The motors would not run and possibly overheat with the DCC current on the rails.

With the motors not running you would only be dragging the engines.

The only way you could accomplish coupling the engines together would be disconnecting them electrically and removing gears at the axle letting the wheels turn freely.

Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: donvicpoitras@...
Sent: Jan 20, 2019 4:21 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] N scale DCC locomotive

Can my n scale  DCC decoder equipped locomotive haul other locomotives that are analogue or only DCC ready on my future n scale DCC layout or do they all have to have decoders and programmed to my nce power cab?Thanks,Don

N scale DCC locomotive

Don Poitras
 

Can my n scale  DCC decoder equipped locomotive haul other locomotives that are analogue or only DCC ready on my future n scale DCC layout or do they all have to have decoders and programmed to my nce power cab?Thanks,Don
Re: Wiring help needed

Al Silverstein
 

Tim,
 
Using a circuit breaker like the PM42 is not generally necessary with a Digitrax Zephyr command station. The Zephyr was designed for smaller layouts with one or two operators in mind. The current output of the Zephyr is only 3 amps.
 
External circuit breakers are generally used to protect a layout where multiple operators are operating multiple trains where a short in one area would drastically effect a second or third operator operating trains in other areas of the layout.
 
Al

From: Tim Lee
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2019 9:25 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Wiring help needed
 
Please be patient as I’m new to this. Are you saying that I need a digitrax pm42 ? I can purchase one.  Do I then wire from zephyr to pm 42 then to track bus ? Or 4 power lines to 4 different areas of track from pm 42


On Jan 19, 2019, at 7:59 PM, Jay <jayfmn@q.com> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Tim,
Generally you won't need to isolate most places.
Reverser loops are different animal.
That layout looks like there are no reverser sections.
On a layout that size, you might want to consider a Digitrax PM42 Quad Power Manager.
This would split up the layout, for electrical short protection.

Jay

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