Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

wirefordcc

George’s article on double crossover’s is at:  http://www.wiringfordcc.com/DoubleCrossover_Galyon.pdf

Allan

Wiring For DCC

Allan Gartner

Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

George Galyon

You can use a Shinohara double crossover on a DCC layout without any modifications.  See article on "double crossovers" on "Wiring for DCC" web site.  The article is a little hard to find.  You can google "Wiring for HO double crossovers Tutorial"-G.T. Galyon and it should pop up for you.

Multiple feeders vs Ground Loops

Don Vollrath

This subject comes up every once in a while in various forums.

The whole purpose of providing multiple connections to model RR track rails is to provide a preferred low electrical resistance path for current to flow instead of relying on potentially poor electrical connections at rail joiners or even that of the rail itself (copper vs steel/brass/nickel rail). Providing rail feeder drops at each piece of rail connected to adequately sized DCC (or even DC) bus feeder wiring back to the power booster (or DC throttle) does just that. This gives the best possibility of problem free operation of our trains.

'Ground loop' problems are somewhat different whereas multiple electrical paths, each with a different amount of electrical resistance, exist and tends to allow or force unwanted electrical currents to flow in the wiring between common or 'grounding' connections supposedly of the same potential. It is the unwanted current flow in those paths, and the difference in voltage drop due to the electrical resistance (& impedance at higher frequencies) that causes a disturbance of the voltage signals available at any given point along the wiring. ie - The signal ghosting problem of multiple paths as Mark Gurries explains... For DCC, a long continuous loop of track and/or bus wiring can form multiple signal length timing connections and become a problem for DCC signaling reception at a given point, but only after the loop starts to exceed several hundred feet in total linear circumference. [Somewhat wiring style dependent.] Simply breaking up the track into typical isolated power or booster or even AR section districts and providing DCC bus wiring as a 'T' from the booster rather than a continuous loop tends to avoid those issues.

DonV

Re: Electro frog not modifying for dcc

Chuck Hart

I now have 72 Electro Frog code 55 turnouts installed on my DCC N Scale layout. I have not made any modification to any of them. Been operating for about 10 years now with no problems.
www.pce.cc .
Regards, Chuck

Re: Electro frog not modifying for dcc

rsauerbrun

Hi Richard,

Yes, our club uses our Peco Electrofrogs right out of the box on our large DCC layout. In the past, we tried several of the "recommended" modifications to Peco's design, but found that these actually made successful use of the turnout more difficult. In the end, we trusted the Peco engineers more than all the folks that think they have "improvements".

That being said, it is very important that you wire the frog properly. We have found that relying on the points to provide the necessary power to all rails works consistently (power routing). Once they get a little dirty, the locos start stalling.

Another Richard

Electro frog not modifying for dcc

Richard_vanRaay

Does anyone leave them as they come. It says on the back it is possible. I have modified several but with the extension I am thinking of using them as purchased. At least until I have my track planned better.

Re: DCC Wiring Problem on a Small N Scale Layout

thoms.chesley@...

Hi Greg

Thank you for your suggestions. I tested my locomotives and DCC system on a test track. Everything works. I have also made progress with my layout and I am happy to report that the sections of track I have installed and wired are working quite well with my DCC locomotives. I am being patient and meticulous to avoid any further issues. Thanks
Alan

Re: DCC Wiring Problem on a Small N Scale Layout

Don Vollrath

You DO have a DCC decoder in the test loco... right??
1. Use a separate piece of track wired directly to the DCC bus according to the NCE instructions for wiring it up and make sure you can control the loco as expected using your NCE PowerCab. If this doesn't work review your wiring of the Power Cab system and make sure you are addressing the loco with the correct DCC loco address. (see #2) If #1 works then the problem is somewhere in your layout track connections, etc. So...
2. Use a voltmeter and measure the AC voltage across the track section where the loco does not respond to DCC commands. There should be 10-16 Vac as measured on the track (the DCC power). Work your way out from the PowerCab Panel and make sure you have the Power Cab plugged into the correct RJ connector and are using the correct curly vs flat cord.

DonV

DCC Wiring Problem on a Small N Scale Layout

thoms.chesley@...

Good Afternoon

I am relatively new to DCC and I have a few questions about wiring my layout. Here are the details of what I have done:

1. 3'x10' n scale unitrack layout (double tracked with several spurs) with number 6 turnouts (17 of them).
2. Turnouts are isolated with Kato plastic joiners at the diverging tracks of the turnout and then powered by Kato feeders (24 gauge wire).
3. My Kato feeder wires are going to be stripped of insulation, folded back to create a thicker wire, tinted with solder and then soldered to spade connectors.
4. All feeders are connected to 2 separate terminal barrier strips.
5. The bus wires (16 gauge stranded wire; 2 foot long sections) run from the barrier strips (one for each track) and connect to an NCE Power Cab DCC system.

I am trying to divide and conquer in a logical manner as I have already run into the issue of not being able to get a DCC locomotive running with even one feeder connection despite knowing that the feeders (I tested a couple of them randomly) will power a given section of track using DC. What am I missing here? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

T.-C.

Re: Wiring for DCC Update Announcemen

Gary Chudzinski

Good info guys...thanks!

Gary C

Re: Wiring for DCC Update Announcemen

Max Maginness

Arcing effects are less likely on DCC that with the low voltage  DC that the switch ratings are usually given for, because any arc is interrupted when the DCC voltage goes to zero as the polarity reverses.

That aside,  an 0.05 ufd capacitor has only about 400 ohms impedance at the 8 kHz fundamental frequency of the DCC waveform so if present across open contacts will leave the power still slightly on.

Max

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Chudzinski
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2019 5:12 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Wiring for DCC Update Announcemen

Alan,

On your website, “Wiring for DCC, Cutting Power to Yard or Roundhouse Tracks,” you state the following:  “Radio Shack carried a 12 position rotary switch, but it was only rated for 300mA. It might work for a while, but eventually may fail due to pitting of the contacts when used at higher currents”

In the smaller scales, where the locomotive draw current less, would it not be helpful to install capacitor(s), maybe  .01 - .05 ufd, across the contacts of a rotary switch?  Seems like I read something about this year’s ago that it can reduce/eliminate contact arcing, which causes pitting.  Or, am I mistaken about this procedure or capacitor value?  Maybe having a senior moment????

Enjoy your website....great information for the DCC learning curve!

Gary Chudzinski

Re: Wiring for DCC Update Announcemen

Don Vollrath

What Allan said is correct. Adding a capacitor across the switch may also further degrade the lifetime as the charged capacitor becomes short circuited when the switch closes.

A capacitor across switch or relay contact is intended to act like a snubber to reduce sparking in circuits where the load is highly inductive, like a relay or magnet coil in DC circuits.
DonV

Re: Wiring for DCC Update Announcemen

Gary Chudzinski

Alan,

On your website, “Wiring for DCC, Cutting Power to Yard or Roundhouse Tracks,” you state the following:  “Radio Shack carried a 12 position rotary switch, but it was only rated for 300mA. It might work for a while, but eventually may fail due to pitting of the contacts when used at higher currents”

In the smaller scales, where the locomotive draw current less, would it not be helpful to install capacitor(s), maybe  .01 - .05 ufd, across the contacts of a rotary switch?  Seems like I read something about this year’s ago that it can reduce/eliminate contact arcing, which causes pitting.  Or, am I mistaken about this procedure or capacitor value?  Maybe having a senior moment????

Enjoy your website....great information for the DCC learning curve!

Gary Chudzinski

Re: Controlling power (0n/Off) in Staging Yard Tracks

Flash Gordon <eschwerkolt@...>

You can use one toggle switch to turn off the whole yard.

Ed S

Re: Controlling power (0n/Off) in Staging Yard Tracks

george hohon3

Gary, you hit the nail on the head with this comment,  "Is this a small, one operator layout?"  The answer to your question is "Yes" . . . . that's exactly what it is.

George

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> on behalf of Gary Chudzinski <chudgr@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 8:27 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Controlling power (0n/Off) in Staging Yard Tracks

Excuse my ignorance, but I'm finding it difficult to understand why one would prefer to use a rotary switch vs toggle switches besides fascia space.  Unless I'm missing something, a rotary switch would allow power to only one staging track at a time.  Is this a small, one operator layout?  Eight to ten mini switches can be compacted in a relatively small space extended below a fascia.  I can understand using a rotary switch in a roundhouse.
Gary Chudzinsk

Re: Controlling power (0n/Off) in Staging Yard Tracks

george hohon3

Jerry, you're right based on your railroad's operations.  I'm a single operator on a home based layout, and while I do run multiple trains at the same time . . . . yard operations are usually one train at a time.  So for me, the rotary switches were the perfect answer.

George

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> on behalf of Jerry Michels <gjmichels53@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 9:34 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Controlling power (0n/Off) in Staging Yard Tracks

Wouldn't a problem with rotary switches be that  you can only turn on one track at a time? That wouldn't work for us considering a train may be entering the yard as another is leaving.  We need individual switches.

Jerry Michels

Re: Controlling power (0n/Off) in Staging Yard Tracks

Gary Chudzinski

Excuse my ignorance, but I'm finding it difficult to understand why one would prefer to use a rotary switch vs toggle switches besides fascia space.  Unless I'm missing something, a rotary switch would allow power to only one staging track at a time.  Is this a small, one operator layout?  Eight to ten mini switches can be compacted in a relatively small space extended below a fascia.  I can understand using a rotary switch in a roundhouse.
Gary Chudzinsk

Re: Controlling power (0n/Off) in Staging Yard Tracks

Jerry Michels

Wouldn't a problem with rotary switches be that  you can only turn on one track at a time? That wouldn't work for us considering a train may be entering the yard as another is leaving.  We need individual switches.

Jerry Michels

Wiring for DCC Update Announcemen

wirefordcc

All,

I have added a section on cutting power to yard and roundhouse tracks in my website.  You can find it at the What's New link at:  http://www.wiringfordcc.com/wirefordcc_toc.htm#a1

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC

Re: Controlling power (0n/Off) in Staging Yard Tracks

Max Maginness

More than you may want to know but the message is that the switching capacity of a simple rotary may be only 0.25 or 0.5 amps, but once closed the contacts can take several amps.  Might be a slight problem with high inrush current sound and /or lights when selecting a track.

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of george hohon3
Sent: Monday, August 5, 2019 4:14 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Controlling power (0n/Off) in Staging Yard Tracks

You can find almost any amp rating you need for a rotary switch at any good electronics parts store.  Mine have been in service for over ten years and they have been perfectly reliable in all those years.

George

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> on behalf of Don Vollrath <donevol43@...>
Sent: Monday, August 5, 2019 9:25 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Controlling power (0n/Off) in Staging Yard Tracks

Advisable? Yes. At least add the isolating gaps to do so. A toggle switch per track is the easy way. Most rotary switches don't have the amp rating for track power and may become unreliable.
Necessary? Maybe. DCC locos (even ones with sound) don't really consume that much track power when idle. But lighted passenger cars can/do. Turnning power off makes the sometimes annoying sound go off and positively prevents any unwanted/mistaken locomotion.

DonV

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