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Programming track wiring

Nick Ostrosky
 

Looking over the newly posted material on this topic I'm feeling a little dense.  I currently have a Powercab with the NCE auto switch for a separate programming track I installed directly under my layout.  Always a pain to move a loco from the main to programming and back again to test my results, especially when I'm having to tweak things several times to get it where I want it.  But the wiring in these diagrams with the auto switch has always seemed overly complicated to me - adding DPDT switches, etc.

My question: would this diagram also work so I could simply create an isolated section on my main for programming, or would I be at risk of something (catastrophic?) happening to any or all of my equipment?  The auto switch should permit only one type of power going out at a time, so what are all the DPDT switches doing that the auto switch is not?

Thanks!

Nick


Re: Capacitive Discharge Turnout Activation

SettleDown
 

Hi Jay

I use only Peco PL-10 twin coil solenoid turn-out motors.  May I suggest that you take a look at DCC Concept's ADS4sx 4-channel decoders for use in either DCC or DC systems (they also do 8sx and 2sx, with 8 and 2 channels respectively). They are the "bees". 

With four of these 4sx decoders (16 channels) I control 25 points on my layout which includes passing sections with paired points at each end, several cross-overs each with two opposing points and one double cross-over with four points.  In each case I use a single channel (single DCC address) to operate both, or in the case of the crossover all four, points with one touch of my iphone !  Each channel has its own powerful CDU which provides enough grunt to switch four PL-10's in one hit. Each channel also provides outputs for frog-juicing and a momentary switch for signals, etc.  They are terrific !

As you can tell, I'm a very happy ex-pat Brit living in Melbourne who have been well looked after by DCC Concepts who are based at Settle in the UK, which is also a bonus as I'm modelling (loosely) the Settle to Carlisle Railway.

Cheers
Graham
@SettleDown


Re: Capacitive Discharge Turnout Activation

Jay
 

I forgot, there is a way to control these switches on DC layouts.
It uses a double throw, double pole, momentary switch.
Basically, run your power to one end. Then wire that to the opposite corner.
Wire your switch to the 2 center contacts.
That's a reversing switch. Using momentary will help from frying the switch machine.
No special circuitry needed.

Jay


Re: Capacitive Discharge Turnout Activation

Jay
 

Hi!
I am running a Digitrax DS52 that controls 2 Peco PL10 switch machines on a 3 way switch on my layout.
That does require DCC. The DS52 & the DS64 will do slow motion switches or solenoid switches.
Both of them have not met a switch that they can control.
I have experimented with Large Scale switch machines & they work!

Jay


Re: Capacitive Discharge Turnout Activation

wirefordcc
 

Throwing twin coil switch machines with a CD (capacitive discharge) unit depends on the capability of the CD unit.  It also depends on the amount of power required by the twin coil switch machine itself.  So answering your question here isn't possible.  Some of the DCC equipment manufacturers like NCE make a product that is designed to drive twin coil switch machines. Digitrax had one at one time that could do this as well.  They may still do.  Of course, you are not required to use a DCC product to drive switch machines; it's just often convenient to do so.

NCE has a product they call the Q-Snap.  It is designed to control four separate twin coil switch machines.  Whether you can drive multiple Peco twin coil switch machines, I do not know.  I have a Q-Snap, but I don't have any of the Peco units to try for you.

I know there are times when you want to drive multiple turnouts from the same control; like in a cross over when they will always work together.  But aside from that, with DCC you can link together multiple outputs of devices that drive twin coil switch machines.  NCE calls this capability "Macros".  Digitrax calls them "Routes."

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


Capacitive Discharge Turnout Activation

Brian Eiland
 

On my first big HO layout I used primarily Atlas

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/31007?page=1

If I recall properly I could throw 5-6 of those atlas turnouts with a single CD unit that I built myself from a book instruction.

I am now building a new layout using all Peco turnouts. I've looked at a number of methods to activate those turnouts, BUT I keep returning to the good old CD idea. Most of my turnouts will be within easy reach for manual operation, But I have a whole mess of those stock PL10 solenoid controls that can be attached for eventual powering-up, or just operated manually.

My question is if I want to make them work with a CD (capacitive discharge) unit, HOW many of the Peco turnouts can I throw with one CD unit??    What sort of current draw are those PL10 solenoids??


Wire Clips for Connecting point and closure rails?

Brian Eiland
 

I'm thinking if I subsequently have a problem in the long term, perhaps the simply solution is to just drop in some wire clips like this between the closure rails and the main track, OR perhaps configure that wire clip such that it touches both the closure rail and the point rail with its free arm.

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/37935?page=3#comment-440945


Wiring For DCC Website Update

wirefordcc
 

I've been busy adding a number of things to my website and more to come soon.  These are accessible in the "What's New" section at:  http://www.wiringfordcc.com/wirefordcc_toc.htm#a1

I have also added a new section to my website called, "First Looks", to capture my initial experiences with products new to me as I build my new layout.  The objective is to capture interesting features of the product you might be interested in or things I discovered that I thought might be useful to you.   These are accessible just below the above link for "What's New".

Some of the new topics on my website are:
- Demonstration of resistance soldering.  (This is my first attempt at making a video.  As a result, I have a new microphone and an overhead camera mount on order and will remake this video.)
- Source of cell phone speakers
- Wiring programming track using NCE Power Cab and Auto Switch.  Thanks to Jim Exler for providing the drawings!
- Using Frog Juicers with block detection.
- Using a Decoder Buddy Mini with a 21 pin sound decoder.

Products in the new "First Looks" Section:
- NCE Light-It universal lighting and signal decoder
- NCE Switch8-MK2 (for slow motion switch machines) and Button Board
- NCE EB1 v1.1 electronic circuit breaker with lower initial trip point of 1.5A (new product)
- NCE AR10 auto reverser and circuit breaker (new product)
 
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


Re: Bi-Polar Red /Green LEDs in Control Panels.

Tom Jones
 

Don, the wiring you suggested is how they are currently (pun intended) wired per the circuitron diagram. My problem is in parallel most of  the current is consumed by the red side of each LED. Running the Leds in series does not help and slows the tortoise movement to a crawl.. My solution I think  as suggested is to try and source a bi-LED that has a closer tolerance between the Red and Green outputs. Fortunately or "un" I am headed to the mountains for the next few days and will have a look when I get back.


Re: Bi-Polar Red /Green LEDs in Control Panels.

Carl
 

Hi Gang:

When I was building my turnout motors I used a breadboard like this to test for component values:


SOLDERLESS BREADBOARD, 400 CONTACTS

https://www.allelectronics.com/item/pb-400/solderless-breadboard-400-contacts/1.html

Didn't have problems with the resistors for the LEDs, but did have to add a capacitor to keep the relay from chattering. It is a lot easier to test and fix on the bench, instead of under the layout.

Carl.

On 7/1/2020 1:16 AM, Don Vollrath wrote:

Tom Jones, use two of the R/G 2 lead LEDs But connect each of them in opposition series with each other and with one of the Tortoise motor leads. Wire both of the short (or long) leads of the LEDs together. And the opposite pair in series with the motor. Current then will always flow through one Red, and one Green, and be limited by the resistance of the Motor. 

DonV


Re: Bi-Polar Red /Green LEDs in Control Panels.

Don Vollrath
 

Tom Jones, use two of the R/G 2 lead LEDs But connect each of them in opposition series with each other and with one of the Tortoise motor leads. Wire both of the short (or long) leads of the LEDs together. And the opposite pair in series with the motor. Current then will always flow through one Red, and one Green, and be limited by the resistance of the Motor. 

DonV


Re: Bi-Polar Red /Green LEDs in Control Panels.

 

Max is absolutely correct in that it is current.  If we are talking about a single 2 wire LED that is red when current flows in one direction and green when it flows in the other then it is the fault of the maker to not balance the brightness.

A work around would be to use a different resistor for each direction.  Connect each resistor to a diode in series.  Now connect the resistors and diodes in parallel with the diodes pointing in opposite direction.  Now the current only flows through one resisotr for each polarity.  Now swap out one of the resistors until the brightness is correct.

Best Regards,
Ken Harstine


Re: Bi-Polar Red /Green LEDs in Control Panels.

Max Maginness
 

Mind sending me a circuit sketch of this?

 

Max

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 6:10 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Bi-Polar Red /Green LEDs in Control Panels.

 

Max, Thomas is correct. Two bi-color in parallel and in reverse direction. The control panel indication is green for route selected, red for not selected.

   Thomas, thank you  for the voltage information on the LEDs. I was not aware of that. I must have gotten lucky years ago when I initially started buying my bi-colors and building control panels. I am out the door camping for a couple days but Friday will investigate Jameco's LEDS and post  my findings.  Thank everyone for there input to the problem. ...tj


Re: Bi-Polar Red /Green LEDs in Control Panels.

Max Maginness
 

A diagram is needed!

Max

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of thomasmclae via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 7:58 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Bi-Polar Red /Green LEDs in Control Panels.

 

Did you try soldering the LEDs in series with each other?
Tortoise left , LED, LED, Tortoise right. With LED short lead to short lead. That way the current path goes through both LEDs, one as red the other as green?
(Better with a diagram, which would take me about 3 days!)
Thomas
DeSoto, TX


Re: Bi-Polar Red /Green LEDs in Control Panels.

thomasmclae
 

Did you try soldering the LEDs in series with each other?
Tortoise left , LED, LED, Tortoise right. With LED short lead to short lead. That way the current path goes through both LEDs, one as red the other as green?
(Better with a diagram, which would take me about 3 days!)
Thomas
DeSoto, TX


Re: Bi-Polar Red /Green LEDs in Control Panels.

Tom Jones
 

Max, Thomas is correct. Two bi-color in parallel and in reverse direction. The control panel indication is green for route selected, red for not selected.
   Thomas, thank you  for the voltage information on the LEDs. I was not aware of that. I must have gotten lucky years ago when I initially started buying my bi-colors and building control panels. I am out the door camping for a couple days but Friday will investigate Jameco's LEDS and post  my findings.  Thank everyone for there input to the problem. ...tj


Re: Bi-Polar Red /Green LEDs in Control Panels.

Max Maginness
 

Are we getting confused between inserting the bi-color Led in series with one of wires powering the stall machine of either typed and connecting it across (between)  the leads with a resistor in series with the LED.

 

In either case the particular voltage spec of the R or G LED is almost irrelevant – it’s the current passing through them that determines the light output. The only situation where it might matter is if the LED’s are being driven from an very low voltage source like a 3 volt battery, but here we have 12 volts or so.

 

Max

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of thomasmclae via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 4:00 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Bi-Polar Red /Green LEDs in Control Panels.

 

He is using a pair of red/green two wire LED. We have been using the same configuration for years.
Of the pair, one always shows red, the other green.
We use switchmaster motors, but works the same as Tortoises.
If you but from Jameco (Or non-rail sources) you need to verify that what you are buying has the same voltage for red and green. Otherwise, one color pulls all the amps and the other is dim.
And no way to add a resister to the 'red' as it is the same circuit. (Unless you do a bypass with a diode and resistor, but that would zap the motor (Tortoise) )

Post the Jameco part number, and lets see what the LED specs are,.


Re: Bi-Polar Red /Green LEDs in Control Panels.

thomasmclae
 

He is using a pair of red/green two wire LED. We have been using the same configuration for years.
Of the pair, one always shows red, the other green.
We use switchmaster motors, but works the same as Tortoises.
If you but from Jameco (Or non-rail sources) you need to verify that what you are buying has the same voltage for red and green. Otherwise, one color pulls all the amps and the other is dim.
And no way to add a resister to the 'red' as it is the same circuit. (Unless you do a bypass with a diode and resistor, but that would zap the motor (Tortoise) )

Post the Jameco part number, and lets see what the LED specs are,.


Re: Bi-Polar Red /Green LEDs in Control Panels.

Max Maginness
 

If you wire the two separate LED as shown on the instructions – that is in parallel, “pointing” in opposite directions, ( sometimes known as  reverse parallel) its  exactly the same electrically as if they were on the one 2 lead package.  Or are you somehow using two, single package two lead bi-color leds?

 

Max

 

 

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 12:55 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Bi-Polar Red /Green LEDs in Control Panels.

 

Ron, yes a single 2-legged Bi-color red green LED will work and the green will light because it is the only LED getting voltage when DC flows it's direction. Th problem is when 2 Red/Green bi-color LEDs are wired in parallel back to back as on the tortoise discription the Red LED sucks all the power leaving the Green dim or almost not visible.  ..tj


Re: Bi-Polar Red /Green LEDs in Control Panels.

john
 

There are three lead, two color LEDs available and you bias each lead as necessary.

You can use two diodes in series (one reversed), with the bi-color LED and also series an appropriate resistor to dim the red light and another to bios both for the voltage. Remember the diodes cause a .6 volt drop to both colors so consider that in you math. 

Another option, I only light the turnout when it is diverged. 

Hope it helped.

jd


On Monday, June 29, 2020, 03:49:47 PM EDT, Tom Jones <tomjones4884@...> wrote:


Paul O;
 I am trying to source different LEDs. I would have to add a dropping resistor on both sides of the 2-legged bi-color LEDs (on the "red" side of each) and a lot of extra work. I wish I had a hundred more of the old ones.  ...tj