Date   

Re: Non-terminal snubbers

wirefordcc
 

Hi Michael,

Snubbers only go on the end of each run.  If you locate your booster in the middle of a track bus, as you should, you should put a snubber at each end.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


Non-terminal snubbers

 

I am building a layout with 4 Power Districts. Three PDs have the power supply located at their midpoint and have two track bus that are each less than 30 feet long. It would be helpful to have the fourth district have the power supply offset, producing a 20 foot bus and a 38 foot bus. All of the track bus will have terminal snubbers and twisted (3/foot) wires. Would it help to put a snubber midway on the 38 foot bus?
Thanks,
Michael


Non-terminal snubbers

 

I am building a layout with four power districts. Three of the PDs have the power source located centrally, allowing for two track bus of less than 30 feet. I would help to locate the fourth PD such that one track bus would be about 20 feet long and the other about 40 feet long. All of the track bus will have terminal snubbers. Would an additional snubber, located halfway along the 40 foot bus, help to decrease inductance?
Thank you,
Michael


Re: Electrical Code for Train Layouts

Carl
 

Hello John:

I used to set up some O-27 modules, but they never had any permanent 120v wiring, just a standard extension cord to the ZW transformer. I'm in South Carolina so I was never inspected by officials, Union or Public.

I've developed connectors for low voltage connections using PVC "wood" trim boards. It has been suggested that they don't meet "Code" for model layouts. From inspecting many under sides of model layout I wondered what Code might be??

So here is a link to the PVC terminals:

https://www.instructables.com/id/Insulation-Displacement-Screw-Terminals/

I was lucky and was able to use industrial DIN connectors rated for 600 volts, or telephone punch down blocks. So when a friend asked me to help wire his layout we tried the PVC blocks. We learned a few things, but they did work well and were easy make corrections. Let me know what you think.

Thanks, Carl.

On 3/11/2020 4:20 PM, John M Wallis wrote:

Hi Carl:

 

While the document mentioned below is intended for modular layouts set up in public venues, it does provide most of the rules laid out by the Fire Codes. Go to ntrak.org, then click on “Publications” then “AppNotes”, and scroll down to a document called “Recommended Practices for 120VAC Layout Wiring.

 

Regards,

 

 

John Wallis

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Carl
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 2:37 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] Electrical Code for Train Layouts

 

Hi Gang:

Can anyone point me to the electrical codes that apply to our train layouts, the low voltage ( <12v. ) systems. By 120v. standards not much of what we wire would pass, DCC, DC or AC. I have a copy of Practical Electrical Wiring, based on the 1981 Code, so some things have surely changed. For low voltage wiring the main points are: 1) Do not put high and low voltage wires in the same conduit or box. 2) The supply should be protected from over current situations, 3) Thinner insulation is OK, but should be protected from damage. Nothing about terminals, protective boxes, etc.

I just want to know how to stay safe.

( That said, I have seen bare 120volt terminals under layouts on tour. I think they was OK, there was a  label: "Danger, do not touch."  Also one where the 120volt lighting circuits looked just like the track wires, you just had to follow them to check what they were connected to. )

Thanks, Carl.

 

Recommended Practices for 120VAC Layout Wiring”.


Re: Electrical Code for Train Layouts

John M Wallis
 

Hi Carl:

 

While the document mentioned below is intended for modular layouts set up in public venues, it does provide most of the rules laid out by the Fire Codes. Go to ntrak.org, then click on “Publications” then “AppNotes”, and scroll down to a document called “Recommended Practices for 120VAC Layout Wiring.

 

Regards,

 

 

John Wallis

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Carl
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 2:37 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] Electrical Code for Train Layouts

 

Hi Gang:

Can anyone point me to the electrical codes that apply to our train layouts, the low voltage ( <12v. ) systems. By 120v. standards not much of what we wire would pass, DCC, DC or AC. I have a copy of Practical Electrical Wiring, based on the 1981 Code, so some things have surely changed. For low voltage wiring the main points are: 1) Do not put high and low voltage wires in the same conduit or box. 2) The supply should be protected from over current situations, 3) Thinner insulation is OK, but should be protected from damage. Nothing about terminals, protective boxes, etc.

I just want to know how to stay safe.

( That said, I have seen bare 120volt terminals under layouts on tour. I think they was OK, there was a  label: "Danger, do not touch."  Also one where the 120volt lighting circuits looked just like the track wires, you just had to follow them to check what they were connected to. )

Thanks, Carl.

 

Recommended Practices for 120VAC Layout Wiring”.


Electrical Code for Train Layouts

Carl
 

Hi Gang:

Can anyone point me to the electrical codes that apply to our train layouts, the low voltage ( <12v. ) systems. By 120v. standards not much of what we wire would pass, DCC, DC or AC. I have a copy of Practical Electrical Wiring, based on the 1981 Code, so some things have surely changed. For low voltage wiring the main points are: 1) Do not put high and low voltage wires in the same conduit or box. 2) The supply should be protected from over current situations, 3) Thinner insulation is OK, but should be protected from damage. Nothing about terminals, protective boxes, etc.

I just want to know how to stay safe.

( That said, I have seen bare 120volt terminals under layouts on tour. I think they was OK, there was a  label: "Danger, do not touch."  Also one where the 120volt lighting circuits looked just like the track wires, you just had to follow them to check what they were connected to. )

Thanks, Carl.



Re: Differentiating bus wires?

Jerry Michels
 

Sure, using a magic marker to put a color stripe on white wires would work fine.  Jerry Michels


Re: Differentiating bus wires?

General
 

I don't know if this would apply but if the wire insulation is white, buy a set of permanent magic markers, cut a slot in the end of whichever color marker you want to use and slide the marker on the wire repeatedly until the wire is colored. 


Re: Differentiating bus wires?

whmvd
 

Same here. Also love the naming convention that automatically allows for sorting in date order. I've done it like that for decades, but hardly ever see it elsewhere.

Wouter


On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 at 14:48, David McBrayer <d_mcbrayer@...> wrote:
Jerry, 
Great meeting another Doc’s geek.  

Dave 


On Mar 9, 2020, at 06:54, Jerry Michels <gjmichels53@...> wrote:


Hi Dave,  Each time I do an update, I save the file with a date, for example, DCC Main Wiring 2020-01-27.xlsx. So that takes care of having previous version available.  I am a geek on this type of documentation.  In addition to the backups on various computers here in Amarillo, the files are backed up in the cloud.  I think we are rock solid. We also do this with things like our rolling stock and locomotive rosters, photos, and correspondence.

Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum

--
Dave McBrayer
Castro Valley, CA 


Re: Differentiating bus wires?

David McBrayer
 

Jerry, 
Great meeting another Doc’s geek.  

Dave 


On Mar 9, 2020, at 06:54, Jerry Michels <gjmichels53@...> wrote:


Hi Dave,  Each time I do an update, I save the file with a date, for example, DCC Main Wiring 2020-01-27.xlsx. So that takes care of having previous version available.  I am a geek on this type of documentation.  In addition to the backups on various computers here in Amarillo, the files are backed up in the cloud.  I think we are rock solid. We also do this with things like our rolling stock and locomotive rosters, photos, and correspondence.

Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum

--
Dave McBrayer
Castro Valley, CA 


Re: Differentiating bus wires?

Jerry Michels
 

Hi Dave,  Each time I do an update, I save the file with a date, for example, DCC Main Wiring 2020-01-27.xlsx. So that takes care of having previous version available.  I am a geek on this type of documentation.  In addition to the backups on various computers here in Amarillo, the files are backed up in the cloud.  I think we are rock solid. We also do this with things like our rolling stock and locomotive rosters, photos, and correspondence.

Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum


Re: Do wires from track to current sensor have to be twisted

Tim
 

the wires from the detectors to the track should not be twisted. Twisted wires can induce a slight current in the wires, which may trip the detectors, giving you false occupancy.

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


Re: Differentiating bus wires?

Carl
 

Hi Gang:

Perhaps if you added a column for revision notes and the date changes were made. Also in Excel you can have a cell with today's date that will print.

Carl.

On 3/8/2020 1:46 PM, David McBrayer wrote:
Jerry,
Having multiple computers storing the File is a decent way to prevent loss of data.  My mind jumped to loss of sync between them at some point down the road.  Do you revise the displayed version date with each update?  That way you could also have a history of updates should you desire.  

—Dave McBrayer 

On Mar 8, 2020, at 09:16, Jerry Michels <gjmichels53@...> wrote:

John wrote: Jerry,
Just don't throw out the documentation after you label your wiring. Keep it and keep it updated.

You bet.  We have all the documentation in an Excel file and stored on multiple computers.  I routinely print it out and post it on our corkboard at the control center.
Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum 

--
Dave McBrayer
Castro Valley, CA 


Re: Differentiating bus wires?

David McBrayer
 

Jerry,
Having multiple computers storing the File is a decent way to prevent loss of data.  My mind jumped to loss of sync between them at some point down the road.  Do you revise the displayed version date with each update?  That way you could also have a history of updates should you desire.  

—Dave McBrayer 

On Mar 8, 2020, at 09:16, Jerry Michels <gjmichels53@...> wrote:

John wrote: Jerry,
Just don't throw out the documentation after you label your wiring. Keep it and keep it updated.

You bet.  We have all the documentation in an Excel file and stored on multiple computers.  I routinely print it out and post it on our corkboard at the control center.
Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum 

--
Dave McBrayer
Castro Valley, CA 


Re: Differentiating bus wires?

Jerry Michels
 

You can really look at the Brother P-tab labels as permanent tags.


Re: Differentiating bus wires?

Jerry Michels
 

John wrote: Jerry,

Just don't throw out the documentation after you label your wiring. Keep it and keep it updated.

You bet.  We have all the documentation in an Excel file and stored on multiple computers.  I routinely print it out and post it on our corkboard at the control center.
Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum


Re: Differentiating bus wires?

Greg Harter
 

Re:  Twisting bus wires--

We have a large HO layout built mostly with 4x8' tables; track bus runs between the tables with 12 conductor nylon connectors.  Each connector socket contains two pair of 12 gauge track bus and 8 other, smaller gauge wires for Tortoise power, 12V and 1.5V accessory bus pairs.  Between the sockets for each table (male and female) run the wires.  The two sets of track bus are twisted pairs, right next to each other.  We have terminators at the end of each track bus run.  We have never had a problem with the system (NCE).  We routinely switch between DC and DCC on the four mainlines.

The track bus is twisted 8 turns per 8' table--each pair is twisted in the opposite direction so it doesn't bind up.  Two mainlines upper, two mainlines lower, helix between--it works pretty well!

Greg Harter
Columbus (Indiana) Area Railroad Club


Re: Differentiating bus wires?

John Melvin
 

Well said. I type the info then put 3-4 spaces then type the info again. Remove the backing, center the label on the wire, wrap and stick together. Then you have a tab large enough, easily read, with info on both sides.

John
El Paso

In a message dated 3/7/2020 11:23:49 Mountain Standard Time, elrodk73@... writes:

Brother P-touch label maker. They are laminated. Permanent, but easily removed. I've used them for years. Also valuable are the Dymo thermal printer labels, available in different sizes.

On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 1:16 PM David McBrayer <d_mcbrayer@...> wrote:
Rich, 
why labels?  To cross reference a panel/terminal block/given wire/bundle of wires/etc. with the layout documentation.  The adhesive lasts much longer than paper labels.   Follow this link for more inf.: https://www.brother-usa.com/home/label-printers/makers

Dave McBrayer

On Mar 7, 2020, at 09:47, Rich Randall via Groups.Io <RRand4449=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
What are Brother labels, and why good for model railroad?

Thanks,
Rich

Rich Randall
Gettysburg, PA


Re: Differentiating bus wires?

Vincent Ficca
 

Hi Dave:

I use different color wire for different application on the RR.  Example:  for mainline, common rail would be white, while different tracks on the mainline rail would be Black for #1, Red for #2, Yellow for #3 and Brown for #4.  Minimize error when I solder the drops to the bus wires. That's my 2 cents worth. 

Vince

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 2:19 PM Dave Emery via Groups.Io <deemery=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have some nice heavy (14 gauge) wire that I’m using for bus wires.  The current plan is that the HO standard gauge will be DCC, while the HOn30 narrow gauge will, at least for now, be DC only.  Does anyone have any good/clever ideas how to mark the DC-only wires?  My layout is not so big that I’m likely to confuse them, -but- I don’t want to have a temporary Senior Moment when trying to work out a wiring problem down the line.

Thanks in advance!

        dave



Re: Differentiating bus wires?

John Melvin
 

Jerry,

Just don't throw out the documentation after you label your wiring. Keep it and keep it updated.

John
El Paso

In a message dated 3/7/2020 07:29:37 Mountain Standard Time, gjmichels53@... writes:

John,  I like the idea of using Brother labels.  A good future project.  We have used Brother labels on our control panel.

Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum

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