Date   
Re: Terminating bus ends

Ken <kenkal@...>
 

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "beckemeier53221"
<MBeckemeier@w...> wrote:
Thanks for the info Mike. I had already decided to use a 2 watt,
now I'll probably go with the 3 as you used.

Thanks for the info. Ken

I can attest to the resistors getting toasty. I had to install
over 90
of them on our club layout. Even the 1 watt resistor got quite hot.

I eventually went with a 3 watt 130 ohm resistor and a 0.1uf 50 V
Capacitor. It really cleaned up the signal nice, and is not as hot
to
the touch.

Capacitor:
Newark Part Number: 08B5602 Manufacturer Part Number:
C317C104M5U5CA.
Resistor:
Newark Part Number: 94C3740 Manufacturer Part Number :
5093NW130R0J

Mike Beckemeier

Re: Terminating bus ends

Michael Beckemeier
 

Regarding the values of the Resistor and Capacitor:
I can attest to the resistors getting toasty. I had to install over 90
of them on our club layout. Even the 1 watt resistor got quite hot.

I eventually went with a 3 watt 130 ohm resistor and a 0.1uf 50 V
Capacitor. It really cleaned up the signal nice, and is not as hot to
the touch.

Capacitor:
Newark Part Number: 08B5602 Manufacturer Part Number: C317C104M5U5CA.
Resistor:
Newark Part Number: 94C3740 Manufacturer Part Number : 5093NW130R0J

Mike Beckemeier

If you wire your layout with the
booster near the center and multiple DCC buses fanning out like a
star, put an R/C terminator at the far end of each bus.

The particular type of capacitor doesn't matter much, as long as
it is non-polarized. Any 50V or higher mylar, ceramic,
polycarbonate, polystyrene or paper film type will all work OK.
However, do NOT use an electrolytic or tantalum type as they are not
rated for this type of duty and are very likely to be polarized.
For HO scale a 0.1 MFD capacitance value of just about any (+/-1, 2,
5, 10, or 20%) tolerance will work. And yes, do use a 100-150 ohm,
1 watt rated resistor. A 1/2 watt resistor will work, but it will
get hot...which reduces the lifetime.

DonV

Re: Reversing section advice

Blair & Rasa
 

Hello Don
Thanks for the informative and very useful response; yes the explanations
are excellent. As an electronics tech, everything makes sense. Your
comments about relays (and switches) make me think that although that will
accomplish what I want electrically, I will pay an unacceptable price in
performance if the train is visible. Since the reversing section trackage
in question is all staging, however, I wonder if I will even notice a
stagger, if that is the only effect. Are there other drawbacks you can
identify to solutions 2 and 3? Regardless, I am extremely interested in
your offer of more data in solution number 1, as my section Y is only longer
by about one inch than my longest conceived locomotive consist; the power on
my longest lighted passenger train would be shorter, but some of the long
freights will likely be 4 SD40-2 units, which fit with an inch to spare.
The flawless performance of this hidden trackage is important to me, as it
will be central to the operation of both my main line and one of the two
primary interchange railroads on my layout.
Regards
Blair Smith

Thinking switches.......

hhodina <hhodina@...>
 

Thank you for your reply,Don.What kind of switches will be best for HO-
DCC use.I'm presently using "Fleischmann-Profi"with motor &
ballast.Are switches,which have all rails energized,better for this
purpose? Thank you for any suggestion.

Re: Terminating bus ends

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

No offense taken and I agree. As originally stated it could be misinterpreted by someone who is trying to follow the directions written by someone else word for word. But then, I didn't write that. There is a learning opportunity here for everyone. Re-read what you print very carefully before you hit the send button. Try to understand how or why someone else might be confused by the wording you have chosen. Always write your questions and answers to be crystal clear. And for you readers...If there is something that seems confusing...Ask.

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:49 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Terminating bus ends


Don, please don't take offense as I'm really not trying to be flip
here or play on semantics, but if the wording had indeed said one
per bus, I wouldn't have asked the question I did. But the wording
says "Yes, you will need two of these circuits for each bus - one at
each end."

To me, the key words are "two", "each" and "each" & that means if I
have one bus, it is a bus with two ends and the ends are dangling
and booster, and the wording states emphatically that each bus
requires two, not one. So to me, that means put one at the dangling
end and another at the booster end just like the wording said. And
since, with my limited DCC and electronic knowledge, it just didn't
sound right, it is why I posed my question.

But, I do thank you for the clarification. I really do appreciate
your taking the time to explain to a novice like myself.
Ken


--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Vollrath, Don"
<dvollrath@m...> wrote:

If someone tells you to put a nozzle at the end of your garden
hose, how many nozzles would you need? :-)

Technically the words should read "Connect an R/C terminator to
each DCC bus run at the end opposite from the booster." Do not put
a terminator at the booster. If you wire your layout with the
booster near the center and multiple DCC buses fanning out like a
star, put an R/C terminator at the far end of each bus.

The particular type of capacitor doesn't matter much, as long as
it is non-polarized. Any 50V or higher mylar, ceramic,
polycarbonate, polystyrene or paper film type will all work OK.
However, do NOT use an electrolytic or tantalum type as they are not
rated for this type of duty and are very likely to be polarized.
For HO scale a 0.1 MFD capacitance value of just about any (+/-1, 2,
5, 10, or 20%) tolerance will work. And yes, do use a 100-150 ohm,
1 watt rated resistor. A 1/2 watt resistor will work, but it will
get hot...which reduces the lifetime.

DonV






http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Terminating bus ends

Ken <kenkal@...>
 

Thanks for the clarification, Brian. Ken

--- In WiringForDCC@..., brianw1138@c... wrote:

Ken,
I can address some of the terminology questions.

Re: Terminating bus ends

Ken <kenkal@...>
 

Don, please don't take offense as I'm really not trying to be flip
here or play on semantics, but if the wording had indeed said one
per bus, I wouldn't have asked the question I did. But the wording
says "Yes, you will need two of these circuits for each bus - one at
each end."

To me, the key words are "two", "each" and "each" & that means if I
have one bus, it is a bus with two ends and the ends are dangling
and booster, and the wording states emphatically that each bus
requires two, not one. So to me, that means put one at the dangling
end and another at the booster end just like the wording said. And
since, with my limited DCC and electronic knowledge, it just didn't
sound right, it is why I posed my question.

But, I do thank you for the clarification. I really do appreciate
your taking the time to explain to a novice like myself.
Ken


--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Vollrath, Don"
<dvollrath@m...> wrote:

If someone tells you to put a nozzle at the end of your garden
hose, how many nozzles would you need? :-)

Technically the words should read "Connect an R/C terminator to
each DCC bus run at the end opposite from the booster." Do not put
a terminator at the booster. If you wire your layout with the
booster near the center and multiple DCC buses fanning out like a
star, put an R/C terminator at the far end of each bus.

The particular type of capacitor doesn't matter much, as long as
it is non-polarized. Any 50V or higher mylar, ceramic,
polycarbonate, polystyrene or paper film type will all work OK.
However, do NOT use an electrolytic or tantalum type as they are not
rated for this type of duty and are very likely to be polarized.
For HO scale a 0.1 MFD capacitance value of just about any (+/-1, 2,
5, 10, or 20%) tolerance will work. And yes, do use a 100-150 ohm,
1 watt rated resistor. A 1/2 watt resistor will work, but it will
get hot...which reduces the lifetime.

DonV

Re: Reversing section advice

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Oops.
My option 3 requires 2 A-R units and 1 relay.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Vollrath, Don
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 11:06 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Reversing section advice


Hello Blair. I see 3 Options:

1. Use a standard A-R unit at loop L as you propose. Use Loy's Toys ARSC at section Y. This unit requires extra rail gaps but can handle trains that are longer than the reversing track section, as long as Y is longer than the powered loco consist. It does work, even with a long train of lighted passenger cars, but the location of rail gaps and their width are important, particularly on curves. I can send you more data if you are interested. I also have an improved version that you can build yourself for a lot less $$. Send me a private e-mail. [need 1 A-R unit, 1 Loy's Toys ARSC or equal]

2. Use a conventional A-R unit for track Y, but extend the effective length out to SW1, SW2 and X as you propose by use of a relay sensitive to throwbar position of SW1, only when it is set for track Y. SW1, SW2 & the track leading to X should always be at the same rail polarity as you have indicated. However, Loop L still exists, and it should be possible to pass a train from either side of L to Y through SW2 & SW1. But L itself is a reversing loop and it is not wise to connect two A-R controlled track sections end to end... so control the polarity of track L with yet another relay operated from the exit throwbar position of SW2, from the polarity of the SW2 track, which may be powered from the A-R unit of Y if SW1 is set that way. Photo sensors near SW2 can be used to automatically flip SW2 from either direction, but thats a whole 'nother matter. [1 A-R unit, 2 relays]

3. Use a standard A-R unit at track section Y and extend the effective length of isolated A-R track out into track A via a relay controlled by the throwbar at switch. The isolated extension into A must be long enough to hold an entire train. Leave tracks of SW1 & SW1 at the fixed polarity of B and B'. Use a 2nd standard A-R unit for track L. This can work, but you must also consider available track length of A beyond what is shown in your sketch. If it is long enough to avoid yet another complication of train length or passing restrictions this option may be easy to implement. [1 a-R unit, 1 relay]

With options 2 & 3, you must use DPDT relays (or toggle switches) to control rail polarity. DPDT contacts on most switch machines are break before make and can interrupt rail power on moving locos for too long of a time as throwbars change positions.

Are my explanations clear enough?

DonV



http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Reversing section advice

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Hello Blair. I see 3 Options:

1. Use a standard A-R unit at loop L as you propose. Use Loy's Toys ARSC at section Y. This unit requires extra rail gaps but can handle trains that are longer than the reversing track section, as long as Y is longer than the powered loco consist. It does work, even with a long train of lighted passenger cars, but the location of rail gaps and their width are important, particularly on curves. I can send you more data if you are interested. I also have an improved version that you can build yourself for a lot less $$. Send me a private e-mail. [need 1 A-R unit, 1 Loy's Toys ARSC or equal]

2. Use a conventional A-R unit for track Y, but extend the effective length out to SW1, SW2 and X as you propose by use of a relay sensitive to throwbar position of SW1, only when it is set for track Y. SW1, SW2 & the track leading to X should always be at the same rail polarity as you have indicated. However, Loop L still exists, and it should be possible to pass a train from either side of L to Y through SW2 & SW1. But L itself is a reversing loop and it is not wise to connect two A-R controlled track sections end to end... so control the polarity of track L with yet another relay operated from the exit throwbar position of SW2, from the polarity of the SW2 track, which may be powered from the A-R unit of Y if SW1 is set that way. Photo sensors near SW2 can be used to automatically flip SW2 from either direction, but thats a whole 'nother matter. [1 A-R unit, 2 relays]

3. Use a standard A-R unit at track section Y and extend the effective length of isolated A-R track out into track A via a relay controlled by the throwbar at switch. The isolated extension into A must be long enough to hold an entire train. Leave tracks of SW1 & SW1 at the fixed polarity of B and B'. Use a 2nd standard A-R unit for track L. This can work, but you must also consider available track length of A beyond what is shown in your sketch. If it is long enough to avoid yet another complication of train length or passing restrictions this option may be easy to implement. [1 a-R unit, 1 relay]

With options 2 & 3, you must use DPDT relays (or toggle switches) to control rail polarity. DPDT contacts on most switch machines are break before make and can interrupt rail power on moving locos for too long of a time as throwbars change positions.

Are my explanations clear enough?

DonV

Reversing section advice

Blair & Rasa
 

Hi folks
I've posted a sketch for a tricky bit of trackwork I have (it's in the files
section, called Reversing Sketch.pdf). Here's the accompanying text, and
questions.

Electrically, A, A', and A" are the same bus. B and B' could be the same
bus (and will be until Santa delivers a booster), or originate on a separate
one, but neither are expected to be reversing sections.

My original thinking was to put L, the reversing loop, on a PM42 reversing
section, and put the short segment at Y on another PM42 reversing section (Y
and L could actually be reversed by aux contacts on SW1 and SW2, but I
digress). The loop is long enough to hold my longest train (26'), but the
segment at Y is not (only long enough for a four-diesel consist). This
would not be a problem as I understand it, unless I were to run trains with
power requirements that are train-long, like lighted passenger consists.
Unfortunately, one of the signature trains expected to traverse from A to
A', and/or to traverse the loop, is the circa 1985 CP Canadian; two diesels
and a passenger car just won't do. Sigh. So back to the wiring plan.

My proposed solution for the problem is to make Y extend all the way to X,
including both 3-way switches. Alternatively, I could extend Y out through
A along the main line beyond A. Either solution means the reversing section
Y will see a lot of action, whereas I could see the original X not being
used very often.
Any other alternatives I'm missing?
Thanks in advance.
Blair Smith

Re: Terminating bus ends

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

If someone tells you to put a nozzle at the end of your garden hose, how many nozzles would you need? :-)

Technically the words should read "Connect an R/C terminator to each DCC bus run at the end opposite from the booster." Do not put a terminator at the booster. If you wire your layout with the booster near the center and multiple DCC buses fanning out like a star, put an R/C terminator at the far end of each bus.

The particular type of capacitor doesn't matter much, as long as it is non-polarized. Any 50V or higher mylar, ceramic, polycarbonate, polystyrene or paper film type will all work OK. However, do NOT use an electrolytic or tantalum type as they are not rated for this type of duty and are very likely to be polarized. For HO scale a 0.1 MFD capacitance value of just about any (+/-1, 2, 5, 10, or 20%) tolerance will work. And yes, do use a 100-150 ohm, 1 watt rated resistor. A 1/2 watt resistor will work, but it will get hot...which reduces the lifetime.

DonV

Re: Terminating bus ends

brianw1138@...
 

Ken,
I can address some of the terminology questions.

Some caps are polarized, they have a plus side and a minus side, these are usually marked in VDC (electrolytic and tantalums come to mind). Other caps aren't polarizied therefore they just get a working volts marking.

Caps are harder to make than are resistors, that's why the tolerance range is so wacky. If the cap says 10uf, believe it, unless you pulled the cap from another circuit it's probably OK, and still in tolerance. If your circuit doesn't work, meter it, and see if it's in tolerance. In general, if you have to make an adjustment, do it with the resistor, they are made in lots more sizes, just for this reason.

Hope this helps, and that they haven't changed the laws of Physics since I was in college!

Re: Accessory Decoder

Arthur Hammeke
 

A accessory decoder usally runs things like signal lights, switches and such.

----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Lau
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 11:55 AM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Accessory Decoder


What is the difference between a loco decoder and an accessory
decoder? Is an accessory decoder fixed onto the loco?

Aaron





http://www.WiringForDCC.com



SPONSORED LINKS Lionel model train European model trains Model railroads
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Terminating bus ends

Ken <kenkal@...>
 

What should be a no brainer for me, this is frustrating. Maybe I'm
really just getting too old for this!

The really helpful Wiring For DCC site says:
Solution for unterminated bus ends:

"The name of this problem suggests the solution - terminate your bus
ends. This is simple and inexpensive to do. Just put this "RC load"
at each end of your long buses. Yes, you will need two of these
circuits for each bus - one at each end."

I don't understand "you will need two of these circuits for each
bus - one at each end." Why two per bus and why one at each end? I
have a dangling end and can see that one, but the other end is to
the booster. So I need to put one across the booster output too?
And if so, then if I have 2 blocks with dangling ends, do I need 3 --
2 ends plus the booster? Or does the booster end need different
values?

Awhile back I asked about the type of cap to use and was told any
kind would work. The site also says they should be 50WVDC. Jameco
has Ceramic Disc Caps (+-20%) listed as 50V. Doesn't say AC or DC.
Are these OK? Their mylars also don't specify AC or DC.

Also, the components are listed with a range up to 50% greater. Is
it better to go to the low end or high end of the range?

And finally, I seem to recall someone, somewhere saying the 1/2 watt
resistors in HO were getting very hot. If that is true, isn't this
wasting power? Should I be using 1 watters?

Sorry for the many probably very easy questions, but this is my
first DCC layout and I want to do it right the first time, w/o smoke
or fire if possible.

Thank you for your help. Ken

Re: Accessory Decoder

JOHN <jcebay@...>
 

Hi
The accessory decoder will give an output voltage to power a peco, or
similar, points (turnouts) or signal motor. In other words it controls the
points and signals according to the commands it gets. The loco decoder is
situated in the loco itself and the accessory decoder is placed under or
beside the baseboard feeding the points motors...........john

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On
Behalf Of Aaron Lau
Sent: 15 November 2005 13:03
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Accessory Decoder


Thanks for your reply John.

Could you explain in greater details what does points and signal
means.

So is the accessory decoder AND the loco decoder fixed onto the
loco? Or is it either one of them?

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "JOHN" <jcebay@n...> wrote:
>
> HI
> A loco decoder is a small thumbnail size PCB that fits inside
and
> controls your locomotive. An accessory decoder controls items such
as points
> and signals....hope that helps............john
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On
> Behalf Of Aaron Lau
> Sent: 14 November 2005 17:55
> To: WiringForDCC@...
> Subject: [WiringForDCC] Accessory Decoder
>
>
> What is the difference between a loco decoder and an accessory
> decoder? Is an accessory decoder fixed onto the loco?
>
> Aaron
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.WiringForDCC.com
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Lionel model train European model trains Model
railroads
> Ho scale model train Ho model trains Model train n scale
>
>
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Re: Accessory Decoder

brianw1138@...
 

Aaron,
There are generaly two classes of decoder, Fixed and mobile; of mobile decoders there are motor control and function decoders. Motor control decoders connect to the locomotive's motor and make it go, they usually have functions control as well to turn on head ight reverse lights, ditch lights, fire box light, etc. Function only decoders are just like motor decoders but the omit the motor control circuitry and just provide the function outputs. Accessory decoders usually mount under the layout and are used to control switch machines (points are the movable rails in a turnout (switch)) or signal lights, but they can be used to urn on or off any electrical gizmo you can think of; street lights, traffic lights in town, building lights, anything! In general, when you hear someone say "Decoder" they means a mobile motor control decoder.

Re: Club buzzer for DCC short circuit testing

Dale Gloer
 

The capacitor is to smooth the rectified (by the bridge rectifier)
DCC signal so the realy doesn't make a high pitched buzzing sound.

Dale.


--- In WiringForDCC@..., "blind_pyro1" <blind_pyro@i...>
wrote:

My question concerns the following page:
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track.htm

Under the blue title section "Testing," the diagram of a "Club
Buzzer", why is the capacitor needed in the circuit. I can see
how
everything else in the circuit works but I'm not sure what is
being
accomplished with the capacitor. Does the capacitor delay the
buzzer
circuit from becoming active for a small length of time?

Thanks,
Andy

Re: Accessory Decoder

Aaron Lau <aaronlwc@...>
 

Thanks for your reply John.

Could you explain in greater details what does points and signal
means.

So is the accessory decoder AND the loco decoder fixed onto the
loco? Or is it either one of them?

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "JOHN" <jcebay@n...> wrote:

HI
A loco decoder is a small thumbnail size PCB that fits inside
and
controls your locomotive. An accessory decoder controls items such
as points
and signals....hope that helps............john
-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On
Behalf Of Aaron Lau
Sent: 14 November 2005 17:55
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Accessory Decoder


What is the difference between a loco decoder and an accessory
decoder? Is an accessory decoder fixed onto the loco?

Aaron





http://www.WiringForDCC.com



SPONSORED LINKS Lionel model train European model trains Model
railroads
Ho scale model train Ho model trains Model train n scale


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Club buzzer for DCC short circuit testing

blind_pyro1 <blind_pyro@...>
 

My question concerns the following page:
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track.htm

Under the blue title section "Testing," the diagram of a "Club
Buzzer", why is the capacitor needed in the circuit. I can see how
everything else in the circuit works but I'm not sure what is being
accomplished with the capacitor. Does the capacitor delay the buzzer
circuit from becoming active for a small length of time?

Thanks,
Andy

Re: Accessory Decoder

JOHN <jcebay@...>
 

HI
A loco decoder is a small thumbnail size PCB that fits inside and
controls your locomotive. An accessory decoder controls items such as points
and signals....hope that helps............john

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On
Behalf Of Aaron Lau
Sent: 14 November 2005 17:55
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Accessory Decoder


What is the difference between a loco decoder and an accessory
decoder? Is an accessory decoder fixed onto the loco?

Aaron





http://www.WiringForDCC.com



SPONSORED LINKS Lionel model train European model trains Model railroads
Ho scale model train Ho model trains Model train n scale


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b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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