Date   
Re: DCC "Friendly" Turnouts

jmscnw <jmscnw@...>
 

Don V.

I want my new layout to be as "solder and play" as possible.
Spending alot of time "re-wiring" all my turnouts doesnt appeal
to me. DCC is advertised as much simpler to wire( except when
you want a turnout on your layout ! ). I may just forget about
Atlas and use Walthers code 83 DCC friendly turnouts.


I think you had better get out your ohmmeter. The blackened metal
frog is isolated by black plastic rail gaps.
No, Atlas doesn't say anything about being 'DCC friendly', but they
are about as friendly as you can get at that price level.
You still need to add better electrical connections to wing and point
rails in the form of soldered on wire bond jumpers and power the frog
through a SPDT switch of your choice (if you want it powered).

DonV

Re: DCC "Friendly" Turnouts

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

I think you had better get out your ohmmeter. The blackened metal frog is isolated by black plastic rail gaps.
No, Atlas doesn't say anything about being 'DCC friendly', but they are about as friendly as you can get at that price level.
You still need to add better electrical connections to wing and point rails in the form of soldered on wire bond jumpers and power the frog through a SPDT switch of your choice (if you want it powered).

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of jmscnw
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:09 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: DCC "Friendly" Turnouts


Allan,

The CUSTOM-LINE MARK IV are Atlas premium line of turnouts with
blackened metal frogs. The frog DOES NOT have gaps which would
isolate it from the frog and closure rails. On the underside of
the turnout their is a metal strip under the frog area.

The latest Atlas track catalog I have says nothing about DCC
compatibility. If you send me your mailing address, I would be
happy to send you a turnout for you to examine. With most model
railroader's now going DCC, you would think manufactures would be
anxious to promote DCC compatibility !





http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Loco "shorts" on Peco Insulfrog Double Slip but OK on Peco Electrofrog Turnouts.

Don Vollrath <dvollrath@...>
 

Look at http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm#a20. Note where
the gaps are cut in the rails leading up to the frog. Most (if not
all) manufacturers cut the gaps very close to the frog so that an
unpowered frog area is as short as possible. But when the gaps are
too close to the frog an extra wide metal wheel tread on one track
to actually touch the other rail, which is at the opposite
polarity. So even though the idea is right, the implementation
doesn't leave any room for wheel tread tolerance.

Another problem is that the molded plastic 'trenches' of the rail
gap paths are not deep enough...or necessarily insulated at the
bottom. Large diameter wheel flanges often touch the bottom of the
trenches as they roll through the gap. But sometimes there is an
energized metal rail-rail bonding strap at the bottom of the gap.

You problem might be resolved if you throw all 4 switches to be
straight through or X-over. I know this works for the Shinohara
double crossover.

DonV

Re: AutoReverse Modules

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Try the On-Guard OG-AR unit from Tony's & others. All solid state. No adjustments required. It simply works! Also works as an electronic circuit breaker.
[However, it DOES require a conventional booster to provide enough peak current to trigger. It may not work on low power starter systems.]
DonV

Very flexible wire

Andrew Bell <belsonic@...>
 

Northwest Shortline makes a very flexible wire that works very well for
wiring around points. The wire has a silicone insulation and is #29
which isn't very big but will handle just under an amp of power. So
unless you have an extremly high current motor in a loco it should
handle anything needed. I have used it on our club layout and have
never had any problems.

Andy Bell
Portland OR

Re: Loco "shorts" on Peco Insulfrog Double Slip but OK on Peco Electrofrog Turnouts.

Doug Stuard <dstuard@...>
 

With insulfrog turnouts, the rails that converge in the frog are
separated by a thin strip of plastic. Occasionally metal wheels can
bridge these two rails, causing a short. A small piece or clear tape
or some clear nail polish can insulate this area.

Doug Stuard
NVNTRAK

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Earl T. Hackett"
<hackete1@c...> wrote:

I'm not familiar with the Peco DS, but it's a 90% probability that
the loco wheels are shorting between two rails of opposite polarity.
Check for electrical continuity between all points and their stock
rails. On a DS things get pretty tight on the inside points. You
may want to look into using switch machine contacts to set the
polarity on these points similar to the method used with a powered
frog.
----- Original Message -----
From: gissapint
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 1:13 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Loco "shorts" on Peco Insulfrog Double
Slip but OK on Peco Electrofrog Turnouts.


I couldn't find this issue on your forums so would be grateful
for any
advice.
I have a small L-shape end-to-end "00" scale layout wired for DCC
(Bachmann)using Peco code 75 track. There is a run around loop
incorporating the double slip (DS)at one end and 2 electrofrog
turnouts at the other. The layout successfully passed its
wiring "test" using a DCC chipped Bachmann Class 25 diesel. I
then
added a chip to the Hornby Q1 0-6-0 which has pick up on all
wheels
including the tender. This loco shorts the system when traveling
straight across the DS but is otherwise OK on the layout. To
confuse
the issue,I had no problems with the following locos when run
(separately) as analogue - Hornby Terrier (0-6-0), Bachmann N-
Class (2-
6-0) and Bachmann Class 4 Standard Tank (2-6-4).
I'm puzzled. The DS is used straight "out of the box" - should I
have
done some additional wiring? If so, what should I do?

Many thanks,

Dave Tootell
UK.





http://www.WiringForDCC.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Loco "shorts" on Peco Insulfrog Double Slip but OK on Peco Electrofrog Turnouts.

Earl T. Hackett <hackete1@...>
 

I'm not familiar with the Peco DS, but it's a 90% probability that the loco wheels are shorting between two rails of opposite polarity. Check for electrical continuity between all points and their stock rails. On a DS things get pretty tight on the inside points. You may want to look into using switch machine contacts to set the polarity on these points similar to the method used with a powered frog.

----- Original Message -----
From: gissapint
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 1:13 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Loco "shorts" on Peco Insulfrog Double Slip but OK on Peco Electrofrog Turnouts.


I couldn't find this issue on your forums so would be grateful for any
advice.
I have a small L-shape end-to-end "00" scale layout wired for DCC
(Bachmann)using Peco code 75 track. There is a run around loop
incorporating the double slip (DS)at one end and 2 electrofrog
turnouts at the other. The layout successfully passed its
wiring "test" using a DCC chipped Bachmann Class 25 diesel. I then
added a chip to the Hornby Q1 0-6-0 which has pick up on all wheels
including the tender. This loco shorts the system when traveling
straight across the DS but is otherwise OK on the layout. To confuse
the issue,I had no problems with the following locos when run
(separately) as analogue - Hornby Terrier (0-6-0), Bachmann N-Class (2-
6-0) and Bachmann Class 4 Standard Tank (2-6-4).
I'm puzzled. The DS is used straight "out of the box" - should I have
done some additional wiring? If so, what should I do?

Many thanks,

Dave Tootell
UK.





http://www.WiringForDCC.com



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "WiringForDCC" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WiringForDCC-unsubscribe@...

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Loco "shorts" on Peco Insulfrog Double Slip but OK on Peco Electrofrog Turnouts.

gissapint <gissapint@...>
 

I couldn't find this issue on your forums so would be grateful for any
advice.
I have a small L-shape end-to-end "00" scale layout wired for DCC
(Bachmann)using Peco code 75 track. There is a run around loop
incorporating the double slip (DS)at one end and 2 electrofrog
turnouts at the other. The layout successfully passed its
wiring "test" using a DCC chipped Bachmann Class 25 diesel. I then
added a chip to the Hornby Q1 0-6-0 which has pick up on all wheels
including the tender. This loco shorts the system when travelling
straight across the DS but is otherwise OK on the layout. To confuse
the issue,I had no problems with the following locos when run
(separately) as analogue - Hornby Terrier (0-6-0), Bachmann N-Class (2-
6-0) and Bachmann Class 4 Standard Tank (2-6-4).
I'm puzzled. The DS is used straight "out of the box" - should I have
done some additional wiring? If so, what should I do?

Many thanks,

Dave Tootell
UK.

Re: DCC "Friendly" Turnouts

jmscnw <jmscnw@...>
 

Allan,

The CUSTOM-LINE MARK IV are Atlas premium line of turnouts with
blackened metal frogs. The frog DOES NOT have gaps which would
isolate it from the frog and closure rails. On the underside of
the turnout their is a metal strip under the frog area.

The latest Atlas track catalog I have says nothing about DCC
compatibility. If you send me your mailing address, I would be
happy to send you a turnout for you to examine. With most model
railroader's now going DCC, you would think manufactures would be
anxious to promote DCC compatibility !

Re: DCC "Friendly" Turnouts

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Atlas has had a few varieties of turnouts over the years. The
turnout shown in my website matches the two varieties I have used.
I can't say that I have seen a Custom-Line Mark IV turnout.

If you can use an ohmmeter, compare your Mark IV to my website.
If they are same, my website is right, you are good to go. If they
are different, please let me know. I'll need to find out what is
different and update my website.

Note: I coined the phrase "DCC Friendly" back in 1996. The phrase
has become very popular. I probably should have trademarked it!
Over the years, there have been people who have tried to tell me
what a DCC Friendly turnout really is. Since I'm the one who
thought up DCC Friendly, this has always amused me. My definition
for DCC Friendly is not up for redefinition. In any event, you may
have to be careful at how other people use the term. Some turnouts,
like most, if not all Atlas', have always been DCC friendly. In the
past couple of years, Micro Engineering and Walthers have joined the
DCC Friendly club. It would seem that these two manufacturers
understood what DCC Friendly is and made their new turnouts
accordingly.

Allan

DCC "Friendly" Turnouts

jmscnw <jmscnw@...>
 

I will be using ATLAS CODE 100 CUSTOM-LINE MARK IV turnouts on my
layout. Allan's website states these are ready as-is and no additional
wiring is needed according to the diagram...just wire at the four rails
exiting the turnout. However I have heard from another source that this
isnt the case and you need to "re-wire" these turnouts for DCC.
I'm not sure if this source is correct on this, so I thought someone
this site could set this straight for me.

Re: DCC wiring help to wire a Rivarossi Big boy

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

As I have helped people wire Rivarossi locomotives it seems that no
two are alike. Well, it seems that way anyway. What you are
describing sounds very close to what is in my website at
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/hrbigboy.htm

The wires you describe going to the pivots are your power pick ups.
These should be as shown in my website.

The second drawing that I show how to wire up your locomotive is the
important one. The existing factory wiring is provided only as a
guide to orient you to your locomotive.

The most important thing is that your motor NOT be attached to
either of the pivots or any lead weights when you are done.

My website shows using the existing headlight. However, as my
experience grew with installing decoders, I often found it easier to
replace the existing headlight with a two wire grain of wheat bulb.
I don't remember enough about the Big Boy to know if this is the
case, but it is something to keep in mind.

Allan

DCC wiring help to wire a Rivarossi Big boy

hawkhawk22
 

DCC wiring help to wire a Rivarossi Big boy? I can describe the inside
under the bioler area.

1 wire leads out of the can motor, then goes to a screw on a weight in
the boiler, then from theree it goes to the main set of trucks.

the second wire comes off the motor, then to the piviot of the back set
of driver wheels

on the front driver wheels. ther is a wire going to the 1 pivot for the
1st set of drive wheels.

I looked at http://www.wiringfordcc.com and that drawing don't help at
all. in fact it is diferent than what I have as a wiring guide. I am
not sure how old or new the engine is. but it seems harder to wire up
them to these types of locos.

In advance also I have several Berks that I believe are A.H.M. 's that
need some wireing as well. I have a dealer helping me DCC my mantua's
( which is really fun by the way if anyone wants to know LOL) but
help with those will be a blessing

thanks in advance

Re: Terminating busses

Earl T. Hackett <hackete1@...>
 

Right now there are 3 boosters and I'm planning on adding a fourth for the storage tracks in the other room. One booster has 18 blocks, but several are very small yard ladders or just two point to point turnouts.

When I was starting this layout I was considering whether I should switch to DCC. The ability to have an independently controlled helper on the grade was the deciding factor. Although I was concerned with signal distortion, I could find no one that understood what I was talking about - or if they did, they weren't talking. Everyone said to just substitute a booster for a DC powerpack, add decoders, and everything will work just fine. The only concern tabled was the amperage capacity of the boosters and the potential for resistance heating in case of a derailment. I suspect that there was a desire by many individuals to see the DCC system succeed and no one was going to say anything bad about it. So with old DC wiring as a guide, I wired a booster to the EB and WB main with another for the yards. The double track main is about 400' long. From your website, it is obvious that my original concerns were well based and DCC is not suitable for use on long runs without special considerations.

With the rewiring, boosters are all being moved to the power distribution panels so the longest transmission distance will be about 25'. This rewiring project is expected to take at least 3 months. I really like the twisted pair arrangement as it helps keep things organized. Right now I'm just wiring the track to toggle switch cutoffs to aid in troubleshooting and leaving a small length of wire to which a compensating RC circuit can be added. Once that is done there is a cross over and a couple of turnouts that have to be added to the mainline to allow the proper switching moves at White Sulfur Springs. It will be at least 5 months before I'm ready to fire up the power and turn a wheel so there's plenty of time to figure out what is really required.

Re: Walthers DCC turnouts

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

I suggest 22 or 20 AWG feeders to your points.

I'm trying to whip my layout into shape for a show in a few weeks. I
have a few kinks to work out. I love steam, but I have one locomotive
that is indecisive - it always wants to go both ways on a turnout! :-)
SOMEDAY I'll have a perfect running layout! In the meantime, I'll be
using DCC friendly turnouts. I did install one non-DCC friendly, DCC
hostile :-), turnout so that I could better advise those people who
have not gone the DCC friendly route. I've decided it has caused
enough trouble and am replacing it with a DCC friendly one.

Good luck!

Allan


--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Elliott Janofsky"
<ejanofsky@h...> wrote:

Allan, What size wire would you use to insure that the movement of
the point
not be interfered with. Thanks, Elliott
And thanks for your website. It is of incalculable value in making
turnouts
DCC friendly. To watch a short wheelbase steamer crawl thru one with
not a
quiver is outstanding . Now do a double slip ( I have 3 in my
yard) and
a threeway (pecos) please.

Re: Walthers DCC turnouts

Elliott Janofsky <ejanofsky@...>
 

Allan, What size wire would you use to insure that the movement of the point not be interfered with. Thanks, Elliott
And thanks for your website. It is of incalculable value in making turnouts DCC friendly. To watch a short wheelbase steamer crawl thru one with not a quiver is outstanding . Now do a double slip ( I have 3 in my yard) and a threeway (pecos) please.

----- Original Message -----
From: "wirefordcc" <wire4dcc_admin@...>
To: <WiringForDCC@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:33 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Walthers DCC turnouts


Ed,

Thanks for posting your message on the forum. It's the way I can
help the most number of people with a single reply.

Do not ever solder a wire through the rivets of any turnout which
are used to hinge the points. Some turnouts have rivets at the
hinge point and the tips. Do not a wire through either set of
rivets. You will most likely ruin the turnout should you do this.

So where do you attach the wires? Referring to the new Walthers DCC
Compatiable turnout, attach your main wires to anywhere on the
turnout where you are least likely to cause damage to the turnout.
Do this to the rails leaving the frog as shown on my website at:
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_walthers.htm#a1 or the middle
of the turnout. You do need to attach a wire to the frog. Attach
to the outside of the frog and be careful that you don't melt your
frog.

Whenever soldering to track, make sure the rail is clean as well as
your soldering iron. I recommend solid solder and liquid flux. See
my website at: http://www.wiringfordcc.com/solder.htm

I recommend that you solder feeders to your points. Eventually,
your hinge points will develop electrical problems if you don't. I
have some turnouts I am testing to see just how long that will
take. We may have to wait for a few years! Soldering feeders to
points seems to be better in general. Soldering small wires around
the points makes the points too stiff for some popular switch
machines. When soldering to the points, don't solder too close to
the hinge point or the rivet. Be careful that the solder doesn't
wick to the hinge point or rivet. If it does, game over! Off to
the train store you go to buy a new turnout!

Allan







http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links





Re: Terminating busses

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Earl,

Your 20 MHz scope should be more than adequate do the job for you.

You say you have 50 blocks, but how many on each booster? How many
are over 30' feet away? If you had to put 50 terminations all hanging
off of one booster, they would represent a significant load on your
booster. But I doubt your situation is as serious as this.

Since you have a scope, and I presume you have a basic operating
knowledge of it, you will be able to figure out exactly what you need.

Hopefully Mark and Don will be back next week and offer their advice.

Allan

Re: Walthers DCC turnouts

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Ed,

Thanks for posting your message on the forum. It's the way I can
help the most number of people with a single reply.

Do not ever solder a wire through the rivets of any turnout which
are used to hinge the points. Some turnouts have rivets at the
hinge point and the tips. Do not a wire through either set of
rivets. You will most likely ruin the turnout should you do this.

So where do you attach the wires? Referring to the new Walthers DCC
Compatiable turnout, attach your main wires to anywhere on the
turnout where you are least likely to cause damage to the turnout.
Do this to the rails leaving the frog as shown on my website at:
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_walthers.htm#a1 or the middle
of the turnout. You do need to attach a wire to the frog. Attach
to the outside of the frog and be careful that you don't melt your
frog.

Whenever soldering to track, make sure the rail is clean as well as
your soldering iron. I recommend solid solder and liquid flux. See
my website at: http://www.wiringfordcc.com/solder.htm

I recommend that you solder feeders to your points. Eventually,
your hinge points will develop electrical problems if you don't. I
have some turnouts I am testing to see just how long that will
take. We may have to wait for a few years! Soldering feeders to
points seems to be better in general. Soldering small wires around
the points makes the points too stiff for some popular switch
machines. When soldering to the points, don't solder too close to
the hinge point or the rivet. Be careful that the solder doesn't
wick to the hinge point or rivet. If it does, game over! Off to
the train store you go to buy a new turnout!

Allan

Walthers DCC turnouts

ecollins10
 

Question, I am not sure where to attach the feeder wires to these
switches. Do you solder wire to the hole in the rivets of the point rails
or to the botton of one rail a and b? Just needed clarification.

Re: tortoise switch machine wiring

Doug Stuard <dstuard@...>
 

No. The Tortoise serves as the resistor.

Doug Stuard


--- In WiringForDCC@..., "garyfaz" <gdefazio@r...> wrote:

I want to use a bi-polor led panel indicator the way the
instructions
sheet that came with the switch machine show. my question is, do i
need
a current limiting restor for the led?