Date   

Re: Block detection/wheel set resistors

Peter Ely
 

In case anyone is pondering mass producing resistor wheelsets to be able to detect every car,  Dick from RR-CirKits has an easy to follow presentation on his 'catch all' page here.

http://www.rr-cirkits.com/Notebook/index.html

Look for his download pdf  "Adding Resistors to Wheelsets"

There are many ways to skin a cat but our club members found this an easy reference in lieu of a line demonstation.

Cheers, Peter


Re: Block detection/wheel set resistors

Bill Wilken
 

When I'm further along on this project, I intend to write a crystal-
clear "how-to-do-it" with pictures, tips and tricks. Signaling is not
difficult by any means, but so much of the literature is just not very
helpful. For starters, it needs to warn that a successful installation
on an established layout will require a good bit of rewiring.

On Tue, 2020-09-08 at 12:49 +0000, Don Vollrath wrote:
Thanks for the feedback Bill. It always helps to know we have steered
you in the right direction.



DonV


Re: Block detection/wheel set resistors

Don Vollrath
 

Thanks for the feedback Bill. It always helps to know we have steered you in the right direction.



DonV


Re: Block detection/wheel set resistors

Bill Wilken
 

After a lot of crawling under benchwork, I found the culprit ... a
turnout that was not rewired after creating the signal block bus.
Unfortunately,retrofitting a signal system in a well established
layout can take a good bit of rewiring.

On Fri, 2020-09-04 at 13:14 +0000, Don Vollrath wrote:
Bill Wilkin did you find the root cause of the detection problem with
consisted locos?

DonV


Re: Kato Platform DX and lighting

Lloyd
 

Thanks Kiran. I'm going to try keep them on DC.


Re: Kato Platform DX and lighting

Lloyd
 

The light kit is a Kato product (2300) to go with the newer Kato platform/station. I believe they can be wired directly to a Kato controller (DC). I have one so I might do that, just for these lights.


Re: Kato Platform DX and lighting

Kiran Kaja
 

Platform DX is a term I came across with Kato's new range of suburban platforms and they do have lighting accessories. I did connect those lights to DCC and they seem to be working fine so far. I don't know if long exposure to higher DCC voltages will damage those LEDs though.

Kiran

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 12:16 PM wirefordcc <bigboy@...> wrote:

Hi Lloyd,

 

I’m a little thrown by “Platform DX” in your subject line.  You don’t mention DX in the body of your question.  Is DX a typo?  I’m not familiar with a Kato DX product.

 

Yes, you can go both DC and DCC.  If you have a small layout and will only run one train, you can switch between DC and DCC.  There’s a lot more to it.  I’m planning a column on it in Model Railroader magazine in a few months.

 

If you are just asking if you can keep the lighting DC, most definitely.  Ye, you can use the Just Plug-It lighting system.  If you want basic lighting, just use the system as designed.  If you want lighting effects, there are DCC products that allow you to get fancy like the NCE Illunimator lighting decoder.  You mention the Digitrax DS64, so I’m wondering if you have a Digitrax system.  Even if you do, you can use the NCE Illuminator as that runs off of any DCC track bus.

 

The DS64 is for use when controlled, or at least powered, by DCC.  I don’t see in the promotional information that it can be run off of DC power.

 

Did I answer your questions?

 

Allan Gartner

Wiring for DCC

 

 

,

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Lloyd
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2020 1:47 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] Kato Platform DX and lighting

 

I'm wondering about wiring on a DCC layout.
Is it possible to keep it DC? Can I connect the lights to Woodland Scenic's Just Plug lighting? Can I connect to a DS64?
Thanks

Lloyd


Re: Kato Platform DX and lighting

wirefordcc
 

Hi Lloyd,

 

I’m a little thrown by “Platform DX” in your subject line.  You don’t mention DX in the body of your question.  Is DX a typo?  I’m not familiar with a Kato DX product.

 

Yes, you can go both DC and DCC.  If you have a small layout and will only run one train, you can switch between DC and DCC.  There’s a lot more to it.  I’m planning a column on it in Model Railroader magazine in a few months.

 

If you are just asking if you can keep the lighting DC, most definitely.  Ye, you can use the Just Plug-It lighting system.  If you want basic lighting, just use the system as designed.  If you want lighting effects, there are DCC products that allow you to get fancy like the NCE Illunimator lighting decoder.  You mention the Digitrax DS64, so I’m wondering if you have a Digitrax system.  Even if you do, you can use the NCE Illuminator as that runs off of any DCC track bus.

 

The DS64 is for use when controlled, or at least powered, by DCC.  I don’t see in the promotional information that it can be run off of DC power.

 

Did I answer your questions?

 

Allan Gartner

Wiring for DCC

 

 

,

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Lloyd
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2020 1:47 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] Kato Platform DX and lighting

 

I'm wondering about wiring on a DCC layout.
Is it possible to keep it DC? Can I connect the lights to Woodland Scenic's Just Plug lighting? Can I connect to a DS64?
Thanks

Lloyd


Kato Platform DX and lighting

Lloyd
 

I'm wondering about wiring on a DCC layout.
Is it possible to keep it DC? Can I connect the lights to Woodland Scenic's Just Plug lighting? Can I connect to a DS64?
Thanks

Lloyd


Wiring For DCC Website Update

wirefordcc
 

The following items have been added to the Wiring for DCC website:

1.  3-D printed enclosure for the NCE PowerPro PCP and Auto-Sw contributed by Jim Exler.  Included 3-D printing files.

2.  Demonstration of resistance soldering.

3.  Added Tom's Trains, an inexpensive source for cell phone speakers.

4.  Added All Electronics, an inexpensive source for electrical parts like wire.

5.  Wiring programming track using NCE Power Cab and Auto-Sw by Jim Exler.

6.  Using block detection with used with Frog Juicers and power routed turnouts.

7.  How much length shrinks when twisting buses.

8.  WOW sound decoder and Decody Buddy Mini.

9.  Updated availability for thermal wire strippers.

For links to these additions, go to my website at:  http://www.wiringfordcc.com/wirefordcc_toc.htm#a1

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


Re: Upgrading a starter DCC system on the cheap

Dale Gloer
 

For Digitrax, the least expensive way to do what you want is to use a Zephyr Express  and add one or two simple throttles using the Jump Ports. The Zephyr manual explains how to do this.  Here is the link to a DIY throttle that connects to a Jump Port.
https://tonystrains.com/download/zephyr-cab.pdf
You can also use a regular DC power pack if it outputs smooth DC connected to a Jump Port as an add on throttle.

Dale Gloer


Re: Block detection/wheel set resistors

Jerry Michels
 

Brent, you don't have to have any particular block report occupancy. The resistive wheelsets are just a means to an end.  If there is no detector connected to the block, it won't be detected.  Jerry Michels


Re: Block detection/wheel set resistors

Don Vollrath
 

Bill Wilkin did you find the root cause of the detection problem with consisted locos?

DonV


Re: Upgrading a starter DCC system on the cheap

Al Silverstein
 

Jay,
 
Adding a low cost second throttle depends upon your choice of command station and the type of add on throttle you desire. Your have two or more options depending upon your choice of DCC command station manufacturer.
 
The physical addition of a throttle is relatively simple. All that need be done is to extend a connection from the command station to the throttle interface device and any add on power devices required by the throttle interface.
 
As I understand the Power Cab system if you are planning on adding a second throttle to the Power Cab system you will first have to determine if you want a tethered throttle or a wireless duplex throttle. The minimum cost for a extra tethered throttle is the cost of the tethered throttle plus any tether interfaces you feel you may need plus the connecting cabling. The minimum cost for a wireless throttle is the cost of a duplex throttle and the cost of a duplex transceiver interface. The actual cost depends upon the hardware required and the place of purchase of said hardware.
 
As I understand the Zephyr system if you are planning on adding a second throttle to the Zephyr you first have to determine if you want a tethered throttle, a wireless duplex throttle, or a wireless Wi-Fi application. The minimum cost again will depend upon the type of extra throttle you desire and the place of purchase. The add on tethered throttle requires a tethered throttle plus any tether interfaces you fell you many need plus the connecting cable. The cost of a wireless radio throttle depends upon the cost of the wireless duplex radio interface and the cost of the wireless duplex throttle. Digitrax currently offers a third option and that is a Wi-Fi interface that can handle up to four additional Wi-Fi throttles. The Wi-Fi throttle option can be acquired by adding the Digitrax Wi-Fi interface to and Digitrax command station and then download a free Wi-Fi throttle app to an existing smart device (cell phone or tablet).
 
Your best bet for a low cost add on throttle option is to check out Digitrax and NCE tethered and wireless throttle options.
 
Keep this in mind. Frequently a new DCC user starts off with a simple system and later decides he wants to expand his DCC system. Invest your time in determining just what you may want to add to your DCC command system in the future. The majority of my model railroading friends have kept their DCC command systems simple: command station, one or two add on boosters, one or more reverse loop controllers and a command station to computer interface. The computer is mostly used to program decoders. 
 
Al Silverstein
 
 
 
 

From: jaysmktrr1 via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 9:03 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] Upgrading a starter DCC system on the cheap
 
Hey y'all. I'm coming back to the hobby after a 15+ year hiatus. I'm planning a 15 foot shelf layout with removable staging at both ends. Thinking of getting a Digitrax Zephyr or an NCE Power Cab system. Here's the question. Can I add a extra throttle for another operator without buying extra stuff, like boosters, unrelated to just throttle control or having to totally upgrade to a bigger system??


Re: Upgrading a starter DCC system on the cheap

whmvd
 

H Jay,

Can't speak for the Zephyr as I don't know it, but with the PowerCab you buy one extra ProCab and you're done. No extras.

Wouter


On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 09:38, jaysmktrr1 via groups.io <jaysmktrr1=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hey y'all. I'm coming back to the hobby after a 15+ year hiatus. I'm planning a 15 foot shelf layout with removable staging at both ends. Thinking of getting a Digitrax Zephyr or an NCE Power Cab system. Here's the question. Can I add a extra throttle for another operator without buying extra stuff, like boosters, unrelated to just throttle control or having to totally upgrade to a bigger system??


Upgrading a starter DCC system on the cheap

jaysmktrr1@...
 

Hey y'all. I'm coming back to the hobby after a 15+ year hiatus. I'm planning a 15 foot shelf layout with removable staging at both ends. Thinking of getting a Digitrax Zephyr or an NCE Power Cab system. Here's the question. Can I add a extra throttle for another operator without buying extra stuff, like boosters, unrelated to just throttle control or having to totally upgrade to a bigger system??


Re: Block detection/wheel set resistors

Carl
 

Hi Gang:

If you are building a layout, I might suggest dividing into more "blocks" than you can possibly imagine. Electrically you can connect several to make a large block. And if you wish to add a block later, well the gaps are already there and you just need to move a few wires.

This is from my experience, I rewired my layout three times before the blocks worked right. So if I had put the gaps in during construction it would have been much easier.

Carl.

On 9/3/2020 6:01 PM, Puckdropper via groups.io wrote:
You can get away with just detecting the start and end of the train provided the blocks are longer than the train.  I really cheated on a layout by only detecting the locomotive, but I was doing grade crossings and the typical train length meant the last car was past the crossing by the time the locomotive exited the detection area. 

If you don't want spurs and other than main tracks detected, you'll have to isolate them. You can run them off of the same circuit breaker as long as you branch off before you get to the detection point. (The detector or coil.). You can even run a 3 wire buss if you'd like, one common, one detected, and one not detected. 

Puckdropper




Re: Block detection/wheel set resistors

Puckdropper
 

You can get away with just detecting the start and end of the train provided the blocks are longer than the train. I really cheated on a layout by only detecting the locomotive, but I was doing grade crossings and the typical train length meant the last car was past the crossing by the time the locomotive exited the detection area.

If you don't want spurs and other than main tracks detected, you'll have to isolate them. You can run them off of the same circuit breaker as long as you branch off before you get to the detection point. (The detector or coil.). You can even run a 3 wire buss if you'd like, one common, one detected, and one not detected.

Puckdropper


Re: Block detection/wheel set resistors

emrldsky
 

No, it says when you are running two trains, instead of the expected 4 loads, you now have 3 to deal with. So how does that happen? How do you know if the missing load is from the first or second train?

Peace,

Mike G.


On 9/2/2020 6:18 PM, AD wrote:
It says, when you are running on automatic and one train is following a first and somehow that wheel on the caboose loses detection you have a backup contact to delay the restart of the second train and lower the probability of a crash 

Tony


On Sep 2, 2020, at 7:48 PM, emrldsky <azMikeG@...> wrote:



Depends what you are doing... If you are using them for start and end of train detection, then what does the one in the middle say?

On 9/2/2020 3:38 PM, AD wrote:
Why nothing else with resistors?  What if the car in middle of train also has resistor wheels wont that just help detect the train?

Tony


On Sep 2, 2020, at 5:36 PM, emrldsky <azMikeG@...> wrote:



If you do do this, you will have to make sure that EVERY train you run has am engine and a caboose, and nothing else with resistors, but ALWAYS those two. Otherwise whatever computer program or logic that is used will easily get confused. There are software approaches to help sort out any confusion, but it gets really complicated. Plus Mr Murphy guarantees there will always arise one more situation you have not thought of.


Peace,

Mike G.


On 9/2/2020 11:21 AM, Brent Johnson via groups.io wrote:
just placing resistors on the caboose so the front and rear of train has detection


Re: Block detection/wheel set resistors

whmvd
 

Hi Brent,

Only with complete detection do you stand a chance of JMRI (or any automation) to keep track of where which train is, and to have working signalling. The thing to think about is not whether you want that today (clearly not), but whether you might want automatic running/signalling to grow more complex and complete later. If so, it's best to prepare. Second thoughts later will mean a lot of extra work which would in the early stages be very little. Your railway - your rules, your choices. As long as the choices are made consciously, all's good.

Wouter


On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 at 17:43, Brent Johnson via groups.io <Brntjh=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Wouter,
why would I need to have detection for every spur? A prototype CTC panel only lights up when a train occupies a block on the main or passing track. I don’t want the panel to show occupancy of a block just because a car with a resistor is spotted at an industry. 

Brent