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Re: Digest Number 1573

prandn
 

Could it be terminology?
Maybe track 3 really has a single slip not a double crossover?
If I AM understanding correctly if west is to the left & east is to the right a train WB on track 4 could exit via track 4, 3 or 2. A train WB on track 3 could exit track 3 or 2. A train on track 2 could only exit track 2. EB would be just the opposite. EB track 2 could exit track 2, 3 or 4. EB track 3 could exit track 3 or 4 & EB track 4 could only exit Track 4. Is this correct?
Loren Martell
Beaverton, OR 97006

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 09:42:58
To: <WiringForDCC@...>
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Digest Number 1573

Wiring For DCC Q&A Forum


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Messages In This Digest (10 Messages)


1a.
Re: Double Crossover Signals From: Carl 1b.
Re: Double Crossover Signals From: Vollrath, Don 1c.
Re: Double Crossover Signals From: emrldsky 1d.
Re: Double Crossover Signals From: Vollrath, Don 1e.
Re: Double Crossover Signals From: Carl 1f.
Re: Double Crossover Signals From: Mike 1g.
Re: Double Crossover Signals From: Vollrath, Don 1h.
Re: Double Crossover Signals From: Rich 1i.
Re: Double Crossover Signals From: Carl 1j.
Re: Double Crossover Signals From: Mike

View All Topics <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJnN3I1OGk1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0ODE3MDcyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzU3NgRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDYXRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzIwODMxNzc4?xm=1&m=p&tidx=1> | Create New Topic <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJnbzd1N3RjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0ODE3MDcyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzU3NgRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDbnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzIwODMxNzc4>
Messages


1a.


Re: Double Crossover Signals <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/message/5579;_ylc=X3oDMTJyb3MwMHFuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0ODE3MDcyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzU3NgRtc2dJZAM1NTc5BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzMjA4MzE3Nzg->

Posted by: "Carl"
carl.blum@... <mailto:carl.blum@...?Subject= Re%3A%20Double%20Crossover%20Signals>  
carl5blum
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/carl5blum>

Tue Nov 8, 2011 6:22 am (PST)



Hello Mike:

I'm not clear how you put a double crossover on just track 3? Double
crossovers are usually between two parallel tracks. Could you post a
photo or drawing?

Thanks, Carl.

PS: What happen to track 1?

On 11/8/2011 1:07 AM, emrldsky wrote:

Here is a good one. Let me try to describe the layout and wiring in
words...
three parallel tracks - Track 2, 3 and 4.
a simple turnout on tracks 2 and 4, diverging side toward the
diverging sides(?) of the double crossover on track 3.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Re: Double Crossover Signals <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/message/5580;_ylc=X3oDMTJyNDA3ODgzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0ODE3MDcyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzU3NgRtc2dJZAM1NTgwBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzMjA4MzE3Nzg->

Posted by: "Vollrath, Don"
dvollrath@... <mailto:dvollrath@...?Subject= Re%3A%20Double%20Crossover%20Signals>  
donevol
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/donevol>

Tue Nov 8, 2011 6:48 am (PST)



Mike,
Your description is not clear. Send / post a track & turnout diagram that also shows the location of the signals and which toggle switch controls what turnouts. Note that 2 toggle switches = 4 possible combination settings. Indicate what you expect the signals to show with each combination.
DonV
dvollrath@... <mailto:dvollrath%40magnetek.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of emrldsky
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:07 AM
To: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Double Crossover Signals

Here is a good one. Let me try to describe the layout and wiring in words...
three parallel tracks - Track 2, 3 and 4.
a simple turnout on tracks 2 and 4, diverging side toward the diverging sides(?) of the double crossover on track 3.

4 turnout motors - tortoise - one for each simple turnout and two for the double crossover.
Lets number the turnouts for easier reference, going from west to east -Track 4 turnout A; Track 3 west half of the double crossover Turnout B;
Track 3 east half of the double crossover Turnout C; Track 2 turnout E.

Turnouts A and C are controlled by a single double pole, double throw switch. That is, they are hooked in parallel. Turnouts E and B are controlled in the same manner. The turnout controlling voltage is 12 volts, DC. The trains themselves do run on NCE DCC.

The signals consist of two bi-color LEDs, hooked in series, back to back. One LED in the pair is on the thru route, the other LED is on the diverging route of the same turnout. The LEDs are connected to pins 1 and 8 on the turnout motors.

Now for the correct operation:
Straight thru route on all tracks works fine, and the signals all show green on the thru routes and red on the diverging legs of each turnout.
When they are set to go from Track 2 to track 4, crossing Track 3, all works fine, and all signals show appropriately - green on all the diverging legs and red on all the thru routes.

Now for the signal problem:
Then the turnouts are set to go from track 2 to track 3 or to go from track 4 to track 3 (or the other way around for each route), the turnouts are all positioned properly, and the trains run through just fine. However the signals for turnout B and C indicate backwards!

I measured the polarity of the voltage applied to the pins of the turnouts. and the LEDs indicate properly, according to that. It appears that the problem is caused by the "opposite end points" being the ones that move for the adjacent track moves.

I guess I may have to pick up the voltage for the signals from the switches on the tortoise motors as well as use some hard-wired logic. Any other suggestions?
Thanks,
Mike G.

------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links




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Re: Double Crossover Signals <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/message/5581;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZHRxZzliBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0ODE3MDcyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzU3NgRtc2dJZAM1NTgxBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzMjA4MzE3Nzg->

Posted by: "emrldsky"
azMikeG@... <mailto:azMikeG@...?Subject= Re%3A%20Double%20Crossover%20Signals>  
emrldsky
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/emrldsky>

Tue Nov 8, 2011 10:29 am (PST)





--- In WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> , Carl <carl.blum@...> wrote:

Hello Mike:

I'm not clear how you put a double crossover on just track 3? Double
crossovers are usually between two parallel tracks. Could you post a
photo or drawing?

Thanks, Carl.

PS: What happen to track 1?

Hi Carl,
I do not know if this helps...

------------------------------&#92;--------------------------------------
&#92;_
&#92;
--------------------------[------&#92;-------]----------------------------
&#92;_
&#92;
------------------------------------&#92;---------------------------------

The double crossover is "outlined" by the square brackets and the under-bars on the diagonal line. This way I can go between the three tracks. Granted, it is direction of travel dependent, but I have the mirror layout just a few feet away, so I can go between any of the three tracks.

Track 1 is a thru mainline without any switching, so it does not apply to this problem.

Hi Don,
The above is the setup. The turnouts all work correctly, so the two switches do not enter into the problem.

Hi All,
I figured out the solution. Just like in the prototypical world, sometimes the setting of a far turnout determines the indication on a near signal, it also does in this case. In the above case, the signal on the left side (west) of the double crossover is determined by the position of the right (east) set of points. And likewise, the west set of points determines the signal presentation on the east end.
Curious things, these double crossovers.

Thanks for all the responses.
Mike G.




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Re: Double Crossover Signals <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/message/5582;_ylc=X3oDMTJydTZ0cjR1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0ODE3MDcyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzU3NgRtc2dJZAM1NTgyBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzMjA4MzE3Nzg->

Posted by: "Vollrath, Don"
dvollrath@... <mailto:dvollrath@...?Subject= Re%3A%20Double%20Crossover%20Signals>  
donevol
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/donevol>

Tue Nov 8, 2011 11:05 am (PST)



Uuuhh,No. That ascii sketch doesn't help much. But...since you have already solved the problem, it doesn't matter.
I think you are trying to use a diagonal track crossover between the top and bottom tracks, with a single "X" crossing of the middle track. Then adding additional turnouts from that diagonal from either the top or bottom tracks to another lead into the middle track. (direction sensitive)
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of emrldsky
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:30 PM
To: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Double Crossover Signals

--- In WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> , Carl <carl.blum@...> wrote:

Hello Mike:

I'm not clear how you put a double crossover on just track 3? Double
crossovers are usually between two parallel tracks. Could you post a
photo or drawing?

Thanks, Carl.

PS: What happen to track 1?

Hi Carl,
I do not know if this helps...

------------------------------&#92;--------------------------------------
&#92;_
&#92;
--------------------------[------&#92;-------]----------------------------
&#92;_
&#92;
------------------------------------&#92;---------------------------------

The double crossover is "outlined" by the square brackets and the under-bars on the diagonal line. This way I can go between the three tracks. Granted, it is direction of travel dependent, but I have the mirror layout just a few feet away, so I can go between any of the three tracks.

Track 1 is a thru mainline without any switching, so it does not apply to this problem.

Hi Don,
The above is the setup. The turnouts all work correctly, so the two switches do not enter into the problem.

Hi All,
I figured out the solution. Just like in the prototypical world, sometimes the setting of a far turnout determines the indication on a near signal, it also does in this case. In the above case, the signal on the left side (west) of the double crossover is determined by the position of the right (east) set of points. And likewise, the west set of points determines the signal presentation on the east end.
Curious things, these double crossovers.

Thanks for all the responses.
Mike G.

------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links




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Re: Double Crossover Signals <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/message/5583;_ylc=X3oDMTJyOXViMWVwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0ODE3MDcyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzU3NgRtc2dJZAM1NTgzBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzMjA4MzE3Nzg->

Posted by: "Carl"
carl.blum@... <mailto:carl.blum@...?Subject= Re%3A%20Double%20Crossover%20Signals>  
carl5blum
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/carl5blum>

Tue Nov 8, 2011 12:15 pm (PST)



Hello Mike:

It was the double crossover that threw me. You have two single
crossovers going down from left right, followed by two going up. A
double crossover is four turnouts with a crossing in between:

1________________________
] &#92; /
] X
2_____/__&#92;____________________

Thanks, Carl.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Re: Double Crossover Signals <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/message/5584;_ylc=X3oDMTJydmZmOWlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0ODE3MDcyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzU3NgRtc2dJZAM1NTg0BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzMjA4MzE3Nzg->

Posted by: "Mike"
azMikeG@... <mailto:azMikeG@...?Subject= Re%3A%20Double%20Crossover%20Signals>  
emrldsky
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/emrldsky>

Tue Nov 8, 2011 2:10 pm (PST)



Hi Carl,

I have a single, right hand turnout on track 4 going down into one :"arm" of
a double crossover on track 3.

The "left & right arms" of the double crossover are aligned with track 3

Then there is another single, right hand turnout on track 2, going up to
meet with the 4th "arm" of the double crossover on track 3.

There are 4 sets of points on the double crossover on track 3.

If I am on track 3, I can go straight thru the double crossover and continue
on Track 3.

I can go west on track 3 and turn up to track 4,

Going east on track 3, I can turn down to track 2.

The attempt at a text style diagram did not work out for me since yahoo
seems to strip out all leasing white spaces.

Maybe this will come out better:

4---------------------------&#92;-----------------------------------------------
--------

0 &#92;_

0 &#92;

3-----------------------[------&#92;-------]------------------------------------
--------

0 &#92;_

0 &#92;

2----------------------------------&#92;----------------------------------------
-------

The double crossover is "outlined" by the square brackets and the

underbars on the diagonal line.

Peace,

Mike G.

From: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Carl
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 1:15 PM
To: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: Double Crossover Signals

Hello Mike:

It was the double crossover that threw me. You have two single
crossovers going down from left right, followed by two going up. A
double crossover is four turnouts with a crossing in between:

1________________________
] &#92; /
] X
2_____/__&#92;____________________

Thanks, Carl.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Re: Double Crossover Signals <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/message/5585;_ylc=X3oDMTJybGFmbnZ1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0ODE3MDcyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzU3NgRtc2dJZAM1NTg1BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzMjA4MzE3Nzg->

Posted by: "Vollrath, Don"
dvollrath@... <mailto:dvollrath@...?Subject= Re%3A%20Double%20Crossover%20Signals>  
donevol
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/donevol>

Tue Nov 8, 2011 2:31 pm (PST)



Mike,
A picture is worth a thousand words.... Got "Paint" on your PC?
Use it to draw a crude sketch. Put your track numbers and turnout IDs on it. Save it as a yournamesketch.bmp (or other format) someplace where you can remember where you put it. Then attach it to a direct e-mail to a private address (not a yahoo forum) or post it to the files section of wiringfordcc.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 4:10 PM
To: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Re: Double Crossover Signals

Hi Carl,

I have a single, right hand turnout on track 4 going down into one :"arm" of
a double crossover on track 3.

The "left & right arms" of the double crossover are aligned with track 3

Then there is another single, right hand turnout on track 2, going up to
meet with the 4th "arm" of the double crossover on track 3.

There are 4 sets of points on the double crossover on track 3.

If I am on track 3, I can go straight thru the double crossover and continue
on Track 3.

I can go west on track 3 and turn up to track 4,

Going east on track 3, I can turn down to track 2.

The attempt at a text style diagram did not work out for me since yahoo
seems to strip out all leasing white spaces.

Maybe this will come out better:

4---------------------------&#92;-----------------------------------------------
--------

0 &#92;_

0 &#92;

3-----------------------[------&#92;-------]------------------------------------
--------

0 &#92;_

0 &#92;

2----------------------------------&#92;----------------------------------------
-------

The double crossover is "outlined" by the square brackets and the

underbars on the diagonal line.

Peace,

Mike G.

From: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Carl
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 1:15 PM
To: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: Double Crossover Signals

Hello Mike:

It was the double crossover that threw me. You have two single
crossovers going down from left right, followed by two going up. A
double crossover is four turnouts with a crossing in between:

1________________________
] &#92; /
] X
2_____/__&#92;____________________

Thanks, Carl.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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Re: Double Crossover Signals <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/message/5586;_ylc=X3oDMTJyaTFpY2hnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0ODE3MDcyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzU3NgRtc2dJZAM1NTg2BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzMjA4MzE3Nzg->

Posted by: "Rich"
redking56@... <mailto:redking56@...?Subject= Re%3A%20Double%20Crossover%20Signals>  
richhotrain
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/richhotrain>

Tue Nov 8, 2011 2:55 pm (PST)




I might suggest here that, perhaps, the only way that this issue is going to be resolved is for us to submit some diagrams of our own that may represent the trackage in question. Then, the OP can inform us of the diagram that reflects his layout configuration.

Rich




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Re: Double Crossover Signals <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/message/5587;_ylc=X3oDMTJycjluNDZzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0ODE3MDcyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzU3NgRtc2dJZAM1NTg3BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzMjA4MzE3Nzg->

Posted by: "Carl"
carl.blum@... <mailto:carl.blum@...?Subject= Re%3A%20Double%20Crossover%20Signals>  
carl5blum
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Tue Nov 8, 2011 3:47 pm (PST)



Hello Mike:

This is a double crossover:

http://catalog.rossswitches.com/viewProduct.cfm?item_id=82572

What I think you are describing on track 3 are two turnouts points to
points.

Carl.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Re: Double Crossover Signals <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/message/5588;_ylc=X3oDMTJyM25qc2U4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0ODE3MDcyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzU3NgRtc2dJZAM1NTg4BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzMjA4MzE3Nzg->

Posted by: "Mike"
azMikeG@... <mailto:azMikeG@...?Subject= Re%3A%20Double%20Crossover%20Signals>  
emrldsky
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/emrldsky>

Tue Nov 8, 2011 7:59 pm (PST)



Hi Rich,

The (my) issue has been resolved. I was just trying to help Carl see what I
was talking about.

Thanks for the offer.

If that is not what you were referring to, please excuse me.

Thanks,

Mike G.

I might suggest here that, perhaps, the only way that this issue is going to
be resolved is for us to submit some diagrams of our own that may represent
the trackage in question. Then, the OP can inform us of the diagram that
reflects his layout configuration.

Rich

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Re: Double Crossover Signals

emrldsky
 

Hi Rich,

The (my) issue has been resolved. I was just trying to help Carl see what I
was talking about.

Thanks for the offer.

If that is not what you were referring to, please excuse me.

Thanks,

Mike G.


I might suggest here that, perhaps, the only way that this issue is going to
be resolved is for us to submit some diagrams of our own that may represent
the trackage in question. Then, the OP can inform us of the diagram that
reflects his layout configuration.

Rich

Re: Double Crossover Signals

Carl
 

Hello Mike:

This is a double crossover:

http://catalog.rossswitches.com/viewProduct.cfm?item_id=82572

What I think you are describing on track 3 are two turnouts points to
points.

Carl.

Re: Double Crossover Signals

Rich <redking56@...>
 

I might suggest here that, perhaps, the only way that this issue is going to be resolved is for us to submit some diagrams of our own that may represent the trackage in question. Then, the OP can inform us of the diagram that reflects his layout configuration.

Rich

Re: Double Crossover Signals

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Mike,
A picture is worth a thousand words.... Got "Paint" on your PC?
Use it to draw a crude sketch. Put your track numbers and turnout IDs on it. Save it as a yournamesketch.bmp (or other format) someplace where you can remember where you put it. Then attach it to a direct e-mail to a private address (not a yahoo forum) or post it to the files section of wiringfordcc.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 4:10 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Re: Double Crossover Signals

Hi Carl,

I have a single, right hand turnout on track 4 going down into one :"arm" of
a double crossover on track 3.

The "left & right arms" of the double crossover are aligned with track 3

Then there is another single, right hand turnout on track 2, going up to
meet with the 4th "arm" of the double crossover on track 3.

There are 4 sets of points on the double crossover on track 3.



If I am on track 3, I can go straight thru the double crossover and continue
on Track 3.

I can go west on track 3 and turn up to track 4,

Going east on track 3, I can turn down to track 2.



The attempt at a text style diagram did not work out for me since yahoo
seems to strip out all leasing white spaces.

Maybe this will come out better:



4---------------------------&#92;-----------------------------------------------
--------

0 &#92;_

0 &#92;

3-----------------------[------&#92;-------]------------------------------------
--------

0 &#92;_

0 &#92;

2----------------------------------&#92;----------------------------------------
-------



The double crossover is "outlined" by the square brackets and the

underbars on the diagonal line.



Peace,

Mike G.





From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On
Behalf Of Carl
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 1:15 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: Double Crossover Signals





Hello Mike:

It was the double crossover that threw me. You have two single
crossovers going down from left right, followed by two going up. A
double crossover is four turnouts with a crossing in between:

1________________________
] &#92; /
] X
2_____/__&#92;____________________

Thanks, Carl.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links

Re: Double Crossover Signals

emrldsky
 

Hi Carl,

I have a single, right hand turnout on track 4 going down into one :"arm" of
a double crossover on track 3.

The "left & right arms" of the double crossover are aligned with track 3

Then there is another single, right hand turnout on track 2, going up to
meet with the 4th "arm" of the double crossover on track 3.

There are 4 sets of points on the double crossover on track 3.



If I am on track 3, I can go straight thru the double crossover and continue
on Track 3.

I can go west on track 3 and turn up to track 4,

Going east on track 3, I can turn down to track 2.



The attempt at a text style diagram did not work out for me since yahoo
seems to strip out all leasing white spaces.

Maybe this will come out better:



4---------------------------&#92;-----------------------------------------------
--------

0 &#92;_

0 &#92;

3-----------------------[------&#92;-------]------------------------------------
--------

0 &#92;_

0 &#92;

2----------------------------------&#92;----------------------------------------
-------



The double crossover is "outlined" by the square brackets and the

underbars on the diagonal line.



Peace,

Mike G.





From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On
Behalf Of Carl
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 1:15 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: Double Crossover Signals





Hello Mike:

It was the double crossover that threw me. You have two single
crossovers going down from left right, followed by two going up. A
double crossover is four turnouts with a crossing in between:

1________________________
] &#92; /
] X
2_____/__&#92;____________________

Thanks, Carl.

Re: Double Crossover Signals

Carl
 

Hello Mike:

It was the double crossover that threw me. You have two single
crossovers going down from left right, followed by two going up. A
double crossover is four turnouts with a crossing in between:

1________________________
] &#92; /
] X
2_____/__&#92;____________________

Thanks, Carl.

Re: Double Crossover Signals

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Uuuhh,No. That ascii sketch doesn't help much. But...since you have already solved the problem, it doesn't matter.
I think you are trying to use a diagonal track crossover between the top and bottom tracks, with a single "X" crossing of the middle track. Then adding additional turnouts from that diagonal from either the top or bottom tracks to another lead into the middle track. (direction sensitive)
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of emrldsky
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:30 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Double Crossover Signals



--- In WiringForDCC@..., Carl <carl.blum@...> wrote:

Hello Mike:

I'm not clear how you put a double crossover on just track 3? Double
crossovers are usually between two parallel tracks. Could you post a
photo or drawing?

Thanks, Carl.

PS: What happen to track 1?

Hi Carl,
I do not know if this helps...


------------------------------&#92;--------------------------------------
&#92;_
&#92;
--------------------------[------&#92;-------]----------------------------
&#92;_
&#92;
------------------------------------&#92;---------------------------------

The double crossover is "outlined" by the square brackets and the under-bars on the diagonal line. This way I can go between the three tracks. Granted, it is direction of travel dependent, but I have the mirror layout just a few feet away, so I can go between any of the three tracks.

Track 1 is a thru mainline without any switching, so it does not apply to this problem.

Hi Don,
The above is the setup. The turnouts all work correctly, so the two switches do not enter into the problem.

Hi All,
I figured out the solution. Just like in the prototypical world, sometimes the setting of a far turnout determines the indication on a near signal, it also does in this case. In the above case, the signal on the left side (west) of the double crossover is determined by the position of the right (east) set of points. And likewise, the west set of points determines the signal presentation on the east end.
Curious things, these double crossovers.

Thanks for all the responses.
Mike G.




------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links

Re: Double Crossover Signals

emrldsky
 

--- In WiringForDCC@..., Carl <carl.blum@...> wrote:

Hello Mike:

I'm not clear how you put a double crossover on just track 3? Double
crossovers are usually between two parallel tracks. Could you post a
photo or drawing?

Thanks, Carl.

PS: What happen to track 1?

Hi Carl,
I do not know if this helps...


------------------------------&#92;--------------------------------------
&#92;_
&#92;
--------------------------[------&#92;-------]----------------------------
&#92;_
&#92;
------------------------------------&#92;---------------------------------

The double crossover is "outlined" by the square brackets and the under-bars on the diagonal line. This way I can go between the three tracks. Granted, it is direction of travel dependent, but I have the mirror layout just a few feet away, so I can go between any of the three tracks.

Track 1 is a thru mainline without any switching, so it does not apply to this problem.

Hi Don,
The above is the setup. The turnouts all work correctly, so the two switches do not enter into the problem.

Hi All,
I figured out the solution. Just like in the prototypical world, sometimes the setting of a far turnout determines the indication on a near signal, it also does in this case. In the above case, the signal on the left side (west) of the double crossover is determined by the position of the right (east) set of points. And likewise, the west set of points determines the signal presentation on the east end.
Curious things, these double crossovers.

Thanks for all the responses.
Mike G.

Re: Double Crossover Signals

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Mike,
Your description is not clear. Send / post a track & turnout diagram that also shows the location of the signals and which toggle switch controls what turnouts. Note that 2 toggle switches = 4 possible combination settings. Indicate what you expect the signals to show with each combination.
DonV
dvollrath@...

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of emrldsky
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:07 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Double Crossover Signals

Here is a good one. Let me try to describe the layout and wiring in words...
three parallel tracks - Track 2, 3 and 4.
a simple turnout on tracks 2 and 4, diverging side toward the diverging sides(?) of the double crossover on track 3.

4 turnout motors - tortoise - one for each simple turnout and two for the double crossover.
Lets number the turnouts for easier reference, going from west to east -Track 4 turnout A; Track 3 west half of the double crossover Turnout B;
Track 3 east half of the double crossover Turnout C; Track 2 turnout E.

Turnouts A and C are controlled by a single double pole, double throw switch. That is, they are hooked in parallel. Turnouts E and B are controlled in the same manner. The turnout controlling voltage is 12 volts, DC. The trains themselves do run on NCE DCC.

The signals consist of two bi-color LEDs, hooked in series, back to back. One LED in the pair is on the thru route, the other LED is on the diverging route of the same turnout. The LEDs are connected to pins 1 and 8 on the turnout motors.

Now for the correct operation:
Straight thru route on all tracks works fine, and the signals all show green on the thru routes and red on the diverging legs of each turnout.
When they are set to go from Track 2 to track 4, crossing Track 3, all works fine, and all signals show appropriately - green on all the diverging legs and red on all the thru routes.

Now for the signal problem:
Then the turnouts are set to go from track 2 to track 3 or to go from track 4 to track 3 (or the other way around for each route), the turnouts are all positioned properly, and the trains run through just fine. However the signals for turnout B and C indicate backwards!

I measured the polarity of the voltage applied to the pins of the turnouts. and the LEDs indicate properly, according to that. It appears that the problem is caused by the "opposite end points" being the ones that move for the adjacent track moves.

I guess I may have to pick up the voltage for the signals from the switches on the tortoise motors as well as use some hard-wired logic. Any other suggestions?
Thanks,
Mike G.




------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links

Re: Double Crossover Signals

Carl
 

Hello Mike:

I'm not clear how you put a double crossover on just track 3? Double
crossovers are usually between two parallel tracks. Could you post a
photo or drawing?

Thanks, Carl.

PS: What happen to track 1?

On 11/8/2011 1:07 AM, emrldsky wrote:

Here is a good one. Let me try to describe the layout and wiring in
words...
three parallel tracks - Track 2, 3 and 4.
a simple turnout on tracks 2 and 4, diverging side toward the
diverging sides(?) of the double crossover on track 3.

Double Crossover Signals

emrldsky
 

Here is a good one. Let me try to describe the layout and wiring in words...
three parallel tracks - Track 2, 3 and 4.
a simple turnout on tracks 2 and 4, diverging side toward the diverging sides(?) of the double crossover on track 3.

4 turnout motors - tortoise - one for each simple turnout and two for the double crossover.
Lets number the turnouts for easier reference, going from west to east -Track 4 turnout A; Track 3 west half of the double crossover Turnout B;
Track 3 east half of the double crossover Turnout C; Track 2 turnout E.

Turnouts A and C are controlled by a single double pole, double throw switch. That is, they are hooked in parallel. Turnouts E and B are controlled in the same manner. The turnout controlling voltage is 12 volts, DC. The trains themselves do run on NCE DCC.

The signals consist of two bi-color LEDs, hooked in series, back to back. One LED in the pair is on the thru route, the other LED is on the diverging route of the same turnout. The LEDs are connected to pins 1 and 8 on the turnout motors.

Now for the correct operation:
Straight thru route on all tracks works fine, and the signals all show green on the thru routes and red on the diverging legs of each turnout.
When they are set to go from Track 2 to track 4, crossing Track 3, all works fine, and all signals show appropriately - green on all the diverging legs and red on all the thru routes.

Now for the signal problem:
Then the turnouts are set to go from track 2 to track 3 or to go from track 4 to track 3 (or the other way around for each route), the turnouts are all positioned properly, and the trains run through just fine. However the signals for turnout B and C indicate backwards!

I measured the polarity of the voltage applied to the pins of the turnouts. and the LEDs indicate properly, according to that. It appears that the problem is caused by the "opposite end points" being the ones that move for the adjacent track moves.

I guess I may have to pick up the voltage for the signals from the switches on the tortoise motors as well as use some hard-wired logic. Any other suggestions?
Thanks,
Mike G.

Re: reversing

Robert Kerr <kerr.robert56@...>
 

Thank you for the e.mail.
 
I am attaching the e.mail I sent and hope you will be able to help.
Thanks.
 
Robert

From: "dvollrath@..." <dvollrath@...>
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 5:17 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: reversing


 
Robert,
Skip the photos. What is your question about reversing?
DonV

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "kerr.robert56" <kerr.robert56@...> wrote:

I sent an e.mail to above address yesterday with a photo attached. It was returned saying it couldn'e be sent.

can you advise how to contact you please.

Regards

Robert.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

New Email Address

Bill Gaver <bngaver@...>
 

To All:

Please be advised that beginning immediately my new e-mail address is:

bngaver@...

I request you update your address file accordingly.

Thank you,

Bill

Re: reversing

Robert Kerr <kerr.robert56@...>
 

Thank you for the information.
 
Robert

From: "rheroux@..." <rheroux@...>
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] reversing

Robert -

You cannot attach photos to your posting.  You need to upload it to the file section of the list.

Bob

On Nov 4, 2011, at 6:21 AM, kerr.robert56 wrote:

I sent an e.mail to above address yesterday with a photo attached. It was returned saying it couldn'e be sent.

can you advise how to contact you please.

Regards

Robert.







Robert Heroux
ACCU-LITES, Inc.
Your DCC Center
118 S. Main St. STE 5
Wauconda, IL 60084

Phone: 847.224.7914
FAX: 847.487.2089
NMRA Member # 143811

http://www.acculites.com







------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: reversing

dvollrath@...
 

Robert,
Skip the photos. What is your question about reversing?
DonV

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "kerr.robert56" <kerr.robert56@...> wrote:

I sent an e.mail to above address yesterday with a photo attached. It was returned saying it couldn'e be sent.

can you advise how to contact you please.

Regards

Robert.

Re: reversing

Robert Heroux
 

Robert -

You cannot attach photos to your posting. You need to upload it to the file section of the list.

Bob

On Nov 4, 2011, at 6:21 AM, kerr.robert56 wrote:

I sent an e.mail to above address yesterday with a photo attached. It was returned saying it couldn'e be sent.

can you advise how to contact you please.

Regards

Robert.







Robert Heroux
ACCU-LITES, Inc.
Your DCC Center
118 S. Main St. STE 5
Wauconda, IL 60084

Phone: 847.224.7914
FAX: 847.487.2089
NMRA Member # 143811

http://www.acculites.com

reversing

kerr.robert56 <kerr.robert56@...>
 

I sent an e.mail to above address yesterday with a photo attached. It was returned saying it couldn'e be sent.

can you advise how to contact you please.

Regards

Robert.

Re: Attaching feeders to Bus

Carl
 

Hi Gang:

You can always "tin" the wire for more bite when you clamp down.

For gathering wires I like the "suitcase" connectors, or regular crimp
connectors.

I never solder under the layout.

Good luck, Carl.

Re: Attaching feeders to Bus

John Vos <johnwmvos@...>
 

Thanks for your responses. The holes can take 16 mmsquare wire (about 5
AWG) . My bus is about 10 or 11 AWG stranded so should go through the holes
OK. The feeders are solid and may need a bullet terminal to ensure a good
connection,so I'll play with that. When I looked them up on the internet ,
I see they are used in house connections and are rated for 250 v and
100amps so no worries there. Thanks, John V.