Date   
Re: Wiring a Yard

Don Vollrath
 

Michael et al
If you are not providing isolated yard tracks with any power cut off switches then each track is merely another parallel path for the DCC power to flow.... just like that on the track rails. Don’t worry so much about the wiring underneath. Provide a single main DCC bus to follow the main/center layout of the yard tracks from end to end while continuing onto the mainlines. Use multiple 20 AWG track feeders to connect each yard track to the same DCC bus. (24 gauge is kinda small) solder rail joiners or provide track drops for each section of track. Allow for some rail expansion movement to prevent kinking.

Calculate DCC bus length as if it were a single conductor. Avoid forming it into a loop. Add an R/C snubber at the ‘open’ end far away from the booster.

DonV

Re: Offset Rail Gapping

whmvd
 

Michael,

I've read it too, and have followed several threads in various forums on this subject. I have never found an explanation for the practice that made sense to me, but people can get almost religious on this topic, so prepare for heated argument!

Wouter


On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 at 02:18, Michael Boyle <boyle10017@...> wrote:
Greetings,
I've read, and been told, to offset the rail gaps between power districts. What is the science behind this and do we do that everywhere (for example in a reversing loop)?
Thanks,
Michael

Re: Offset Rail Gapping

Don Vollrath
 

It’s hearsay BS. No science behind it. Never seen a case where staggered gaps are required when other recommended practices are Being followed. Put isolating gaps opposite each other. Fill the gaps so they cannot close by rail movement.
DonV

Wiring a Yard

 

Greetings (again),
I've got a yard that is about three feet wide. It has a ladder at both ends and a single track arriving and leaving. The track bus follows under the arriving track. Since I want to keep my 24AWG track feeder wires as short as possible I'm thinking of splitting the track bus in two. At the other end of the yard, do I bring the two busses back together or do I put a snubber on one, terminating it? How do I now calculate the length of the bus? If the split section is 20 feet long and the length of the bus on either side of the yard is a total of 40 feet, do I calculate the bus length as 60 feet (the accepted maximum) or have I effectively created an 80 foot bus? Which raises a related question: What is the effect of branching the track bus? Is the total length equal to the sum of the branches? Or is it just the length of the longest run? Are several splits worse than only one or two?
Thanks for your help, my education is far from complete (even at my advance years).
As always,
Michael Boyle

Offset Rail Gapping

 

Greetings,
I've read, and been told, to offset the rail gaps between power districts. What is the science behind this and do we do that everywhere (for example in a reversing loop)?
Thanks,
Michael

Re: Snubbers

Mark Gurries
 

If you want to go deeper on snubbers….go here.

https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/dcc-general-best-practices/wiring-planing/snubbers-rc-filter <https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/dcc-general-best-practices/wiring-planing/snubbers-rc-filter>


On Mar 18, 2020, at 7:18 AM, Jerry Kramer <jkramer328@...> wrote:


No one has explained what snubbers are since this thread started.
Looks like I don't need them since my layout runs perfectly without them.
Sounds like people here like to make things complicated.
I run a double level layout with 28" high helix on DCC equipped KATO Unitrack with MRC Advanced Squared2 power. I usually run 3 to 5 engines at a time with no problems.
Jerry Kramer
Willamette Regional Railway

Sent from Xfinity Connect Application


Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Re: Snubbers

george hohon3
 

I shouldn't laugh when people trip and fall down when they aren't watching where they're going, but I do.  I do the same thing when someone buys something for their railroad that will do "A" and then they try to make it do "A+1" and when it doesn't, they run back to the manufacturer or web sites like this one and ask for answers and fixes, or just to make complaints that the product "A" is crappie.

I know I shouldn't be laughing at you, but when you exceed the performance standard of the device, it's your fault and I do laugh.  And it seems like I'm laughing more than usual lately.

LG   


From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> on behalf of whmvd <vandoornw@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 7:23 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Snubbers
 
Jerry,

"Sounds like people here like to make things complicated."

No, people here give a lot of their time and put in a lot of effort to solve problems others encounter. The "I do not have this problem so it must be a myth" school of thought may work for you now, but if you make changes to your railway in the future and encounter strange behaviour (you may or may not) have a look back here.

The extremely cheap and simple electronic devices called snubbers (google "dcc snubbers" if you ever get interested, and you'll probably find Mark Gurries' topic on his invaluable site listed first) ensure that the digital signal put out by the command station or booster does not get damaged by incorrect (dcc bus) line termination, which an open end unfortunately invariably is. The longer the bus run, the more likely complications arise. Feel free to ignore. But being disparaging isn't helpful to anyone.

Wouter

On Wed, 18 Mar 2020 at 14:15, Jerry Kramer <jkramer328@...> wrote:

No one has explained what snubbers are since this thread started.
Looks like I don't need them since my layout runs perfectly without them.
Sounds like people here like to make things complicated.
I run a double level layout with 28" high helix on DCC equipped KATO Unitrack with MRC Advanced Squared2 power. I usually run 3 to 5 engines at a time with no problems.
Jerry Kramer
Willamette Regional Railway

Sent from Xfinity Connect Application



Re: Snubbers

whmvd
 

Jerry,

"Sounds like people here like to make things complicated."

No, people here give a lot of their time and put in a lot of effort to solve problems others encounter. The "I do not have this problem so it must be a myth" school of thought may work for you now, but if you make changes to your railway in the future and encounter strange behaviour (you may or may not) have a look back here.

The extremely cheap and simple electronic devices called snubbers (google "dcc snubbers" if you ever get interested, and you'll probably find Mark Gurries' topic on his invaluable site listed first) ensure that the digital signal put out by the command station or booster does not get damaged by incorrect (dcc bus) line termination, which an open end unfortunately invariably is. The longer the bus run, the more likely complications arise. Feel free to ignore. But being disparaging isn't helpful to anyone.

Wouter


On Wed, 18 Mar 2020 at 14:15, Jerry Kramer <jkramer328@...> wrote:

No one has explained what snubbers are since this thread started.
Looks like I don't need them since my layout runs perfectly without them.
Sounds like people here like to make things complicated.
I run a double level layout with 28" high helix on DCC equipped KATO Unitrack with MRC Advanced Squared2 power. I usually run 3 to 5 engines at a time with no problems.
Jerry Kramer
Willamette Regional Railway

Sent from Xfinity Connect Application



Re: Three Rail Layouts

whmvd
 

Hi Carl,

I just had an 'OutOfComprehension' error. If you have three-rail, what are the auto-reversers for? Three-rail solves the problem of polarity clashes very neatly, I thought?

Wouter


On Wed, 18 Mar 2020 at 16:16, Carl <carl.blum@...> wrote:

Hello Allen:

Your website asks to let you know if anyone is running a three rail layout. I have since 2002, it has taken 3 major re-wirings to work well with DCC, and an optional switch to Lionel AC. The biggest problem I have is with the Auto-Reversers on the booster. If I have a common short the Auto-Reverser kicks in and the polarity is wrong at the next gap. I've tried to turn the option off, but it doesn't seem to help. So I have rewired again, with manual reverse switches so I can cancel out the Auto-Reverser.

I'm happy to answer any other questions.

Thanks, Carl.

https://www.facebook.com/charlestonmag/videos/300992497192775?sfns=0

PS: Lionel is not just for Christmas Trees.

Re: Snubbers

wirefordcc
 

Hi Jerry,

If you want to know what a snubber is, visit my website at:  http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#a47

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC

Re: Snubbers

mgj21932
 

Yup. You got it Dale.

Allan’s information is incredibly informative. 

That said, the exchange on this group is most enjoyable — especially as we isolate in place.  

Bill D 


On Mar 18, 2020, at 11:46 AM, Dale Gloer <dale.gloer@...> wrote:

The wiring for DCC website answers all your questions about snubbers.  Here  is the link
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#a47

They are only needed in situations where you have a long track bus - long being generally more than 30 feet.  If your layout is running fine without any snubbers then you don't need one!

Dale Gloer
Layout Supervisor, Southern Alberta Model Railway Club

Three Rail Layouts

Carl
 

Hello Allen:

Your website asks to let you know if anyone is running a three rail layout. I have since 2002, it has taken 3 major re-wirings to work well with DCC, and an optional switch to Lionel AC. The biggest problem I have is with the Auto-Reversers on the booster. If I have a common short the Auto-Reverser kicks in and the polarity is wrong at the next gap. I've tried to turn the option off, but it doesn't seem to help. So I have rewired again, with manual reverse switches so I can cancel out the Auto-Reverser.

I'm happy to answer any other questions.

Thanks, Carl.

https://www.facebook.com/charlestonmag/videos/300992497192775?sfns=0

PS: Lionel is not just for Christmas Trees.

Re: Snubbers

Dale Gloer
 

The wiring for DCC website answers all your questions about snubbers.  Here  is the link
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#a47

They are only needed in situations where you have a long track bus - long being generally more than 30 feet.  If your layout is running fine without any snubbers then you don't need one!

Dale Gloer
Layout Supervisor, Southern Alberta Model Railway Club

Re: Non-terminal snubbers

Carl
 

Hi Gang:

Since we are mostly stuck at home, now would be a good time to finish projects! And if you are willing to write the magazines are always looking for material.

Carl.

On 3/17/2020 6:34 AM, Daniel Brewer wrote:
@Allan please use my question if it is good for your column. I’m looking forward to reading it.
Dan
Granger, IN

Re: Snubbers

mgj21932
 

Jerry,
Of course this group makes things complicated. That’s part of the fun of the hobby. Always another issue/problem to be challenged by. And solve/address. Hence complications. Snubbers seem to fall into the category of a solution to a particular problem (very long power bus runs) that have been seized upon in situations where they aren’t required. Leading to lots of complications as other considerations (e.g., location of block detectors, etc.) must be taken into account.

Sounds like your adherence to KISS has been the right answer. I hope I can achieve running results as successful as those of the Willamette Regional Railroad. I too avoid snubbers as unnecessary for my layout.

Best,
Bill D

On Mar 18, 2020, at 10:15 AM, Jerry Kramer <jkramer328@...> wrote:


No one has explained what snubbers are since this thread started.
Looks like I don't need them since my layout runs perfectly without them.
Sounds like people here like to make things complicated.
I run a double level layout with 28" high helix on DCC equipped KATO Unitrack with MRC Advanced Squared2 power. I usually run 3 to 5 engines at a time with no problems.
Jerry Kramer
Willamette Regional Railway

Sent from Xfinity Connect Application


Snubbers

Jerry Kramer
 

No one has explained what snubbers are since this thread started.
Looks like I don't need them since my layout runs perfectly without them.
Sounds like people here like to make things complicated.
I run a double level layout with 28" high helix on DCC equipped KATO Unitrack with MRC Advanced Squared2 power. I usually run 3 to 5 engines at a time with no problems.
Jerry Kramer
Willamette Regional Railway

Sent from Xfinity Connect Application

Re: Double Crossover

Theo van Riet
 

Op 18 mrt. 2020, om 00:20 heeft SLYMERSDADDY via Groups.Io <SLYMERSDADDY=YAHOO.COM@groups.io> het volgende geschreven:


--
Hello everyone a question I have that I know has been answered before I am sure. I am building an n scale double crossover with Peco code 55 turnouts and a Peco crossing. The turnouts are Electrofrogs and have not been modified in any way. Can someone explain to me how and where to install the wiring, and insulators. Do i need to add the wires listed in WirngDCC and cut the frogs? What is the best way to switch the wiring through two tortoise switch machines? Of course, the layout will be using DCC. The track plan is a double oval with a reverse loop installed on the inboard loop. I have seen something called a frog juicer will these be required?

Just looking for some help!!
On the internet are a lot of suggestions on how to wire the prefab crossover of Peco do not know the type number.
It might be a good idea to mimic one of these proposals, it works on my layout. With the addition of one relay….

Theo

Double Crossover

SLYMERSDADDY@...
 


--
Hello everyone a question I have that I know has been answered before I am sure.  I am building an n scale double crossover with Peco code 55 turnouts and a Peco crossing.  The turnouts are Electrofrogs and have not been modified in any way.  Can someone explain to me how and where to install the wiring, and insulators.  Do i need to add the wires listed in WirngDCC and cut the frogs? What is the best way to switch the wiring through two tortoise switch machines?  Of course, the layout will be using DCC.  The track plan is a double oval with a reverse loop installed on the inboard loop.  I have seen something called a frog juicer will these be required?

Just looking for some help!!

Thanks in advance

Ed

Re: Non-terminal snubbers

Carl
 

Hi Gang:

We were having troubles up on Ruth Mountain, stalling and run-a-ways. So reading about Snubbers I decided to try one. Had the Cap and a resistor in stock so I soldered them together. Then with a PVC terminal and some screws the project was done. I ran the track cleaning car back and forth, so it seems to have helped.

Carl.

https://groups.io/g/w4dccqa/photo/243095/0?p=Name,,carl,20,1,0,0

Re: Electrical Code for Train Layouts

Wyndell "Wingnut" Ferguson
 

thanks for the replies!

Wyndell "Wingnut" Ferguson


On Sunday, March 15, 2020, 9:48:00 AM CDT, Jerry Michels <gjmichels53@...> wrote:


We have had no problems doing this. As long as the rules for wiring 120v AC are followed.  We haven't have a need for switches along the extension cord, we have one at the beginning to disable the AC.  Our AC runs (in conduit and boxes) has multiple duplex outlets.  That is the reason for the AC in the first place, to distribute the AC to points on the layout where it is needed.


Jerry Michels

Amarillo Railroad Museum


So what’s everyone’s thoughts on adding a switch in an extension cord and replace end connector with a metal box and 2 duplex outlets?

 

Wyndell