Date   

Re: AR Vs Tortoise to power frog

whmvd
 

Jim,

I'm on G-Scale, and wouldn't dream of getting rid of the keep-alives. Worth their weight in gold.

A drawback that's not so easy to see is that on track dirty enough to make the keep-alives do their thing, you will also find that the engine is much more likely to miss DCC commands. After all, the contact problem is still there, only somewhat hidden. In your crawl-test, it would be interesting to see what would happen if you were to (automatically) send headlight-on headlight-off commands at pretty high rate. The dirtier the track, the more packets will be missed, resulting in irregular blinking. But the progress would still be smooth!

Wouter


On Mon, 3 May 2021 at 15:44, Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:
Paul,

  I agree with you about its being a "band aid" - and I still install keep alives in
almost all locos.  The locos simply run better in all situations.
  Properly maintained locos and track is the reason why keep alives were
invented - but the "side effects may include" the benefit of rock solid
slow speed performance and un-interrupted sound is something that
I, for one, have been "seduced by".
  For me - the sight of a train going down the track "all herky jerky" is a
problem ... even one stutter is a problem that I will correct.  It literally
"kills my buzz" (it interrupts my ability to believe that "this is a real
railroad").

  I still clean track and wheels.  OFTEN.  But if/when I miss something I can
rely upon the keep alive to have my back.  

  Scale comes into this topic as well - if you are in O-scale you don't need
keep alives.  I don't know about S but suspect that even there the added
mass of the locos is sufficient to make keep alives at least questionable.
I'm in HO scale.  I can see the difference.  Many of my keep alives are
"home grown" and do not use super caps for their power storage (some
call it a "short duration battery").  Others use the commercially available
keep alives.  I prefer the home growns because the loco doesn't run
very far on the keep alive power, never far enough to derail if it runs a
turnout, but you often don't have space for the home growns.

  As a demonstration of the capabilities of using a keep alive I installed
one in a non-sound, HO, Atlas S-2.  I then fine tuned the S-2 diesel
switcher to move at it's slowest possible speed at speed step 1 on the
throttle.  I then put it on a layout that had not been run - nor cleaned - in
over a month.  It ran literally everywhere - at the painstakingly slow 
speed of 12 ties a minute!   One of its tests was up a grade and around
the end wall (about 30 to 40 feet long total).  We were also working on
other stuff at the same time.  Twelve ties a minute is so slow that you
literally had to stop and look at, and wait to see the movement, and
stare at the front of the pilot to see that it was actually moving.  It did not
stop nor even hesitate briefly in the hour plus it took to travel that distance.
  This was -Way TOO Slow- and was done simply as a demonstration -
but it proved to me just how well stuff can run with a keep alive. 

  I'll continue to install keep alives.  YMMV.  I also prefer decoders 
with a setting to limit the amount of time they will continue to function
without seeing the DCC packet stream from the track. 
                                                                                                - Jim


Re: AR Vs Tortoise to power frog

Jim Betz
 

Don,
  Wise decision - in my opinion.  And you know what - operators other than your
grandson will appreciate it/depend upon it as well.  Because using a DCC auto
reverser means that you don't have to pay attention to "where the train is" and
that is one of the biggest reasons why DCC is the way most layouts are going.

 All of my track is "protected" by a DCC circuit breaker (auto reversing or not).
And my layout is broken into DCC power districts by those breakers that make
sense for how the layout is operated.  That way guys running in one area
(and causing a short due to running a turnout) don't affect guys running in 
another area.  Often those "areas" are both sides of the same aisle.  Or
when the train that is running "on the mainline up/back there above/behind
the yard ... so when the guy running the yard runs a turnout (I know you
don't ever do this - but I've been known to run a switch from time to time)
his short doesn't cause the train on the main to stop.
                                                                                                     - Jim


Re: AR Vs Tortoise to power frog

Jim Betz
 

Paul,

  I agree with you about its being a "band aid" - and I still install keep alives in
almost all locos.  The locos simply run better in all situations.
  Properly maintained locos and track is the reason why keep alives were
invented - but the "side effects may include" the benefit of rock solid
slow speed performance and un-interrupted sound is something that
I, for one, have been "seduced by".
  For me - the sight of a train going down the track "all herky jerky" is a
problem ... even one stutter is a problem that I will correct.  It literally
"kills my buzz" (it interrupts my ability to believe that "this is a real
railroad").

  I still clean track and wheels.  OFTEN.  But if/when I miss something I can
rely upon the keep alive to have my back.  

  Scale comes into this topic as well - if you are in O-scale you don't need
keep alives.  I don't know about S but suspect that even there the added
mass of the locos is sufficient to make keep alives at least questionable.
I'm in HO scale.  I can see the difference.  Many of my keep alives are
"home grown" and do not use super caps for their power storage (some
call it a "short duration battery").  Others use the commercially available
keep alives.  I prefer the home growns because the loco doesn't run
very far on the keep alive power, never far enough to derail if it runs a
turnout, but you often don't have space for the home growns.

  As a demonstration of the capabilities of using a keep alive I installed
one in a non-sound, HO, Atlas S-2.  I then fine tuned the S-2 diesel
switcher to move at it's slowest possible speed at speed step 1 on the
throttle.  I then put it on a layout that had not been run - nor cleaned - in
over a month.  It ran literally everywhere - at the painstakingly slow 
speed of 12 ties a minute!   One of its tests was up a grade and around
the end wall (about 30 to 40 feet long total).  We were also working on
other stuff at the same time.  Twelve ties a minute is so slow that you
literally had to stop and look at, and wait to see the movement, and
stare at the front of the pilot to see that it was actually moving.  It did not
stop nor even hesitate briefly in the hour plus it took to travel that distance.
  This was -Way TOO Slow- and was done simply as a demonstration -
but it proved to me just how well stuff can run with a keep alive. 

  I'll continue to install keep alives.  YMMV.  I also prefer decoders 
with a setting to limit the amount of time they will continue to function
without seeing the DCC packet stream from the track. 
                                                                                                - Jim


Re: Need advice on wiring a cross-over and wye junction

Tim
 

David;

The only place where an AR is needed on this arrangement is on the turntable bridge, and you need something there anyway. I'm not sure how an Atlas turntable is wired, so you may need to gap both rails on all of the tracks leading into it. Short stub tracks that don't connect to anything else should be OK. This assumes that you aren't running trains across the turntable bridge.

One point on terminology, what you have labeled as a crossover is actually a crossing. A crossover is a pair a turnouts put in so that you can move across from one parallel track to another.

The crossing shouldn't be any problem. These are all made with insulated frogs so that each route through the crossing is completely independent from the other.

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


Re: AR Vs Tortoise to power frog

Tim
 

Don;

I'll soon have a situation similar to yours. A double ended staging yard where one end represents Charlotte for southbound trains, and the other Winston-Salem for northbounds. Both of these happen to connect at the same place on the visible layout, at a little place called Barber where the Charlotte to Winston-Salem line crossed the Salisbury/Spencer to Asheville line at grade. If you look at this crossing with the line to Winston-Salem to the north, then Charlotte is south, Salisbury is east, and Asheville is west. There are connecting tracks in the north-west, south-west, and south-east quadrants. (There is now another on the north-east quadrant, but it hadn't been built yet in 1974, when the model is set.)

I figured on using this for a turnback during open houses, but not operating sessions. Like yours, I can have trains entering and leaving is opposite directions at the same time on different tracks. I will probably set this up so that you cannot line up conflicting routs that would cause short circuits, but it's going to be a while before layout construction gets that far.

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


Re: AR Vs Tortoise to power frog

Don Vollrath
 

Don W. Have you considered making the storage tracks constant polarity and the mainline (or at least part of it) the AR section?

DonV


Re: AR Vs Tortoise to power frog

Don Weigt
 

Tim,

Like you, I've never had AR circuits on my railroad. Unlike you, I probably will add some soon.

My railroad has a reversing loop that's five blocks long, totaling about 60 feet in length, with the third block being about half the total length, and the only one that needs reversing now that I'm running DCC only. The other four blocks are the arrival and departure tracks, as well as mainline through tracks of my main yard. The reversing block doubles as a hidden staging area, my railroad's connection to all points east. I've used photodetectors and lights to show the location of trains as they move through that hidden area, and manually controlled the reversing.

Trains may be arriving or departing at the west ends of those yard tracks at the same time as another train enters or leaves the reversing block at their east end. Adding to the complexity, those four visible blocks also have a crossover from the track nearest the layout edge to the next one, and that next one has a passing track connected to it. At the west end, two turnouts bring those three tracks down to one continuing out of the yard, while a third turnout provides a route to the turntable. No one turnout's position can be used to control the reversing of the third block. The turnouts and points that would determine which way to set the reversing polarity or phase to the hidden block are too far away, and the trackwork between too complicated,

This all made sense when running DC when the railroad was first built. Trains were run into the hidden tracks from the second track from the layout edge, and reappeared on the track at the layout edge. Mainline polarity was changed while the trains were in the reversing block, which almost always stayed set for the trains' normal direction through it.

Fast forward to today. I'm running DCC only. My mainline track power phase is fixed. I'm reversing only the power to that long hidden third block. I have a young grandson who doesn't understand why that track power reversing switch needs to be thrown and when. Rather than try to devise the logic to control the phase automatically as a train approaches one of the ends of the reversing block, I plan to have an AR circuit do it.

It still will be necessary to prevent one train entering the reversing block while another is leaving, which would short out track power regardless of reversing block power phase. But, that is easier for my grandson to understand than that he needs to make certain a toggle switch is set the right way as his train approaches the reversing block, and that the toggle switch needs to be reversed before his train reaches the other end of the block. Running the railroad will be easier for me, too, and the control panel simpler.

Don Weigt
Connecticut
--


Re: AR Vs Tortoise to power frog

Paul O <pomilian@...>
 

Keep-a-lives are a “Band-Aid” for improperly maintained locos and track.

My two cents. 🤪

Paul O

On Sunday, May 2, 2021, 12:57:07 PM EDT, Tom O'Hara <tomohara5@...> wrote:


Yep to all of that. I use the TCS KA 1s or 2s exclusively because they give me the shortest time. it's still more than I need. When I do an install, I always make sure the client knows what he's getting in terms of what you just said. On the other hand, I still throw my turnouts with fascia-mounted switches or with the throttle. We tend to use the technology that is tuned to our operating modes.

...Tom

On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 9:28 AM Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:
Tom,

  Yes, they both "work" ... that's the problem.  By the time the AR has thrown the
turnout (due to detecting the approach of the loco - a short) the keep alive
has run the loco far enough to derail (before the turnout has completed the
realignment).  It's the "catch-22" of keep alives ... they aren't meant to keep
the loco running when there is a real short - only when the loco looses 
power for just a bit (dirty wheels/track) ... but they do and so you still have
to line your turnouts ahead of your train.  
  And, specific to running around a reversing loop, there isn't any device
that I know of that allows you to do that in a "fire and forget" method.  IF
you always ran the train the same direction and you left a long (1 foot or
more?) enough approach to the turnout and your turnouts completed 
changing direction before the keep alive got the loco all the way to the
derailing point ... then it would work.  Of course, that would use up some
of the track in the reversing section.  Do we need that last 2 car lengths
in the reversing section ... possibly not - most guys would say "yes".
The other gotcha in this method is that if you don't stop the train before
it crosses into the point where it is detected ... you can't have the train
"stored" and run another train into the loop - because it will cause a
short.  Many (most?) reversing sections are actually more than one
track in the loop in order to store more than one train at a time.

  As I've already said - there just isn't an "automated reversing loop"
that works for all situations.   

  Some/many/most of the mfgrs of decoders are -finally- including a 
setting (CV) that allows you to control how long the keep alive will
keep the loco running.
  I, for one, simply don't understand why the keep alives have to 
have such large storage capacities.  There has to be a better
design for the keep alive itself that makes it work for dirty track
for "any" decoder (without a CV in the decoder).
                                                                                         - Jim


Re: AR Vs Tortoise to power frog

Tom O'Hara
 

Yep to all of that. I use the TCS KA 1s or 2s exclusively because they give me the shortest time. it's still more than I need. When I do an install, I always make sure the client knows what he's getting in terms of what you just said. On the other hand, I still throw my turnouts with fascia-mounted switches or with the throttle. We tend to use the technology that is tuned to our operating modes.

...Tom

On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 9:28 AM Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:
Tom,

  Yes, they both "work" ... that's the problem.  By the time the AR has thrown the
turnout (due to detecting the approach of the loco - a short) the keep alive
has run the loco far enough to derail (before the turnout has completed the
realignment).  It's the "catch-22" of keep alives ... they aren't meant to keep
the loco running when there is a real short - only when the loco looses 
power for just a bit (dirty wheels/track) ... but they do and so you still have
to line your turnouts ahead of your train.  
  And, specific to running around a reversing loop, there isn't any device
that I know of that allows you to do that in a "fire and forget" method.  IF
you always ran the train the same direction and you left a long (1 foot or
more?) enough approach to the turnout and your turnouts completed 
changing direction before the keep alive got the loco all the way to the
derailing point ... then it would work.  Of course, that would use up some
of the track in the reversing section.  Do we need that last 2 car lengths
in the reversing section ... possibly not - most guys would say "yes".
The other gotcha in this method is that if you don't stop the train before
it crosses into the point where it is detected ... you can't have the train
"stored" and run another train into the loop - because it will cause a
short.  Many (most?) reversing sections are actually more than one
track in the loop in order to store more than one train at a time.

  As I've already said - there just isn't an "automated reversing loop"
that works for all situations.   

  Some/many/most of the mfgrs of decoders are -finally- including a 
setting (CV) that allows you to control how long the keep alive will
keep the loco running.
  I, for one, simply don't understand why the keep alives have to 
have such large storage capacities.  There has to be a better
design for the keep alive itself that makes it work for dirty track
for "any" decoder (without a CV in the decoder).
                                                                                         - Jim


Re: AR Vs Tortoise to power frog

Jim Betz
 

Tom,

  Yes, they both "work" ... that's the problem.  By the time the AR has thrown the
turnout (due to detecting the approach of the loco - a short) the keep alive
has run the loco far enough to derail (before the turnout has completed the
realignment).  It's the "catch-22" of keep alives ... they aren't meant to keep
the loco running when there is a real short - only when the loco looses 
power for just a bit (dirty wheels/track) ... but they do and so you still have
to line your turnouts ahead of your train.  
  And, specific to running around a reversing loop, there isn't any device
that I know of that allows you to do that in a "fire and forget" method.  IF
you always ran the train the same direction and you left a long (1 foot or
more?) enough approach to the turnout and your turnouts completed 
changing direction before the keep alive got the loco all the way to the
derailing point ... then it would work.  Of course, that would use up some
of the track in the reversing section.  Do we need that last 2 car lengths
in the reversing section ... possibly not - most guys would say "yes".
The other gotcha in this method is that if you don't stop the train before
it crosses into the point where it is detected ... you can't have the train
"stored" and run another train into the loop - because it will cause a
short.  Many (most?) reversing sections are actually more than one
track in the loop in order to store more than one train at a time.

  As I've already said - there just isn't an "automated reversing loop"
that works for all situations.   

  Some/many/most of the mfgrs of decoders are -finally- including a 
setting (CV) that allows you to control how long the keep alive will
keep the loco running.
  I, for one, simply don't understand why the keep alives have to 
have such large storage capacities.  There has to be a better
design for the keep alive itself that makes it work for dirty track
for "any" decoder (without a CV in the decoder).
                                                                                         - Jim


Re: Need advice on wiring a cross-over and wye junction

David Penty
 

I inserted images under Photos but also under Files – I can delete one of them later.

 

David G. Penty

davidpenty@...

(416) 574-4557 ( C )

(519) 855-6961 (R)

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of David Penty
Sent: May 2, 2021 11:44 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Need advice on wiring a cross-over and wye junction

 

Thanks, Blair.   Beyond the small ‘Y’ is a very short space and then a double crossover begins which is managed by 2 MRC auto-reversers.   But, I’ll put up the diagram, as is, unless you think I need to show more detail of the mainline.

 

David G. Penty

Penty Photographic Services

myflyanddrive.com

davidpenty@...

(416) 574-4557 ( C )

(519) 855-6961 (R)

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Blair
Sent: May 2, 2021 10:17 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Need advice on wiring a cross-over and wye junction

 

David,

You'll have to post the picture to the photos area here.  I saw your post on the Digitrax list.  You have two options:

1) The stretch from the crossover to the small 'y' could be fed via an autoreverser

2) The tail of the 'y' could be either fed via an autoreverser, or fed based on the position of the turnout (i.e. feed it from either leg, depending on the position of the turnout; that will require, likely, a relay or other electrical artifice).

I can't tell you which is more appropriate, as I assume your diagram is part of a larger layout.  If the tail of the 'y' in fact connects elsewhere, then the electrical 'state of affairs' may be more complicated.

Blair

On 2021-05-02 9:10, David Penty wrote:

Hello all

I’m new to the forum and still reading my way through Allan Gartner’s Wiring for DCC documents – excellent material.  However, I’m looking for some specific guidance

 

At the end of my mainline, I’ve re-laid track.  In the attached diagram, the turntable was pre-existing, but all turnouts and crossover are new.  I’m not certain if an auto reverser is needed and if so, where it would be located.  Can someone give me an idea of track wiring for the layout.    Peco suggest, on the package, that insulating all ends of the crossover shouldn’t be needed but then provide an example of how to insulate the crossover on all sides. 

I’m running Digitrax, Code 100 HO with Peco turnouts.

 

Incidentally, I got some gravel stuck in the Atlas turntable;  when I lifted the platter off, 2 pins with springs fell out.   There appears to be no way to replace the pins/springs when you invert the platter to install it.  Anyone run into this issue?

Thanks in advance for your assistance

 

 

David G. Penty

Penty Photographic Services

myflyanddrive.com

davidpenty@...

(416) 574-4557 ( C )

(519) 855-6961 (R)

 


Re: Need advice on wiring a cross-over and wye junction

David Penty
 

Thanks, Blair.   Beyond the small ‘Y’ is a very short space and then a double crossover begins which is managed by 2 MRC auto-reversers.   But, I’ll put up the diagram, as is, unless you think I need to show more detail of the mainline.

 

David G. Penty

Penty Photographic Services

myflyanddrive.com

davidpenty@...

(416) 574-4557 ( C )

(519) 855-6961 (R)

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Blair
Sent: May 2, 2021 10:17 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Need advice on wiring a cross-over and wye junction

 

David,

You'll have to post the picture to the photos area here.  I saw your post on the Digitrax list.  You have two options:

1) The stretch from the crossover to the small 'y' could be fed via an autoreverser

2) The tail of the 'y' could be either fed via an autoreverser, or fed based on the position of the turnout (i.e. feed it from either leg, depending on the position of the turnout; that will require, likely, a relay or other electrical artifice).

I can't tell you which is more appropriate, as I assume your diagram is part of a larger layout.  If the tail of the 'y' in fact connects elsewhere, then the electrical 'state of affairs' may be more complicated.

Blair

On 2021-05-02 9:10, David Penty wrote:

Hello all

I’m new to the forum and still reading my way through Allan Gartner’s Wiring for DCC documents – excellent material.  However, I’m looking for some specific guidance

 

At the end of my mainline, I’ve re-laid track.  In the attached diagram, the turntable was pre-existing, but all turnouts and crossover are new.  I’m not certain if an auto reverser is needed and if so, where it would be located.  Can someone give me an idea of track wiring for the layout.    Peco suggest, on the package, that insulating all ends of the crossover shouldn’t be needed but then provide an example of how to insulate the crossover on all sides. 

I’m running Digitrax, Code 100 HO with Peco turnouts.

 

Incidentally, I got some gravel stuck in the Atlas turntable;  when I lifted the platter off, 2 pins with springs fell out.   There appears to be no way to replace the pins/springs when you invert the platter to install it.  Anyone run into this issue?

Thanks in advance for your assistance

 

 

David G. Penty

Penty Photographic Services

myflyanddrive.com

davidpenty@...

(416) 574-4557 ( C )

(519) 855-6961 (R)

 


Re: Need advice on wiring a cross-over and wye junction

Blair
 

David,

You'll have to post the picture to the photos area here.  I saw your post on the Digitrax list.  You have two options:

1) The stretch from the crossover to the small 'y' could be fed via an autoreverser

2) The tail of the 'y' could be either fed via an autoreverser, or fed based on the position of the turnout (i.e. feed it from either leg, depending on the position of the turnout; that will require, likely, a relay or other electrical artifice).

I can't tell you which is more appropriate, as I assume your diagram is part of a larger layout.  If the tail of the 'y' in fact connects elsewhere, then the electrical 'state of affairs' may be more complicated.

Blair

On 2021-05-02 9:10, David Penty wrote:

Hello all

I’m new to the forum and still reading my way through Allan Gartner’s Wiring for DCC documents – excellent material.  However, I’m looking for some specific guidance

 

At the end of my mainline, I’ve re-laid track.  In the attached diagram, the turntable was pre-existing, but all turnouts and crossover are new.  I’m not certain if an auto reverser is needed and if so, where it would be located.  Can someone give me an idea of track wiring for the layout.    Peco suggest, on the package, that insulating all ends of the crossover shouldn’t be needed but then provide an example of how to insulate the crossover on all sides. 

I’m running Digitrax, Code 100 HO with Peco turnouts.

 

Incidentally, I got some gravel stuck in the Atlas turntable;  when I lifted the platter off, 2 pins with springs fell out.   There appears to be no way to replace the pins/springs when you invert the platter to install it.  Anyone run into this issue?

Thanks in advance for your assistance

 

 

David G. Penty

Penty Photographic Services

myflyanddrive.com

davidpenty@...

(416) 574-4557 ( C )

(519) 855-6961 (R)

 


Need advice on wiring a cross-over and wye junction

David Penty
 
Edited

Hello all

I’m new to the forum and still reading my way through Allan Gartner’s Wiring for DCC documents – excellent material.  However, I’m looking for some specific guidance

 

At the end of my mainline, I’ve re-laid track.  In the attached diagram, the turntable was pre-existing, but all turnouts and crossover are new.  I’m not certain if an auto reverser is needed and if so, where it would be located.  Can someone give me an idea of track wiring for the layout.    Peco suggest, on the package, that insulating all ends of the crossover shouldn’t be needed but then provide an example of how to insulate the crossover on all sides. 

I’m running Digitrax, Code 100 HO with Peco turnouts.


I've uploaded a schematic of the track layout under Files.  Image is called 'Peco Crossover wiring issue.jpg'

 

 

David G. Penty

Penty Photographic Services

myflyanddrive.com

davidpenty@...

(416) 574-4557 ( C )

(519) 855-6961 (R)

 


Re: AR Vs Tortoise to power frog

Tom O'Hara
 

Hi Jim,

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you said. If the Tortoise and AR work without keep-alive devices, they'll work with. The energy storage works for the engine but doesn't have any effect on the polarity of what the engine "sees". That comes strictly from the track, which is handled by the KA device or Tortoise. I've had KAs since they came out and never had any problems with my reversing circuits.

....Tom

On Sat, May 1, 2021 at 6:45 AM Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:
Dale,
  Your methods are like mine.  I make the turnout for a return loop in
the same electrical block as the approach.  I suspect, since I'm 
using Tortoises, that having the PSX-AR throw the turnout would
not be 'fast enough to matter' ... most of my locos have keep alives
in them and so I pretty much have to make sure the turnout is
properly aligned before I start into it.  Probably the only important
drawback to a keep alive ... but I'm willing to deal with that simply
because the advantages out weigh it.  Plus my philosophy is
"if you are running turnouts - you're not paying attention".  *G*
                                                                                                     - Jim
                                                                                - Jim


Re: AR Vs Tortoise to power frog

Jim Betz
 

Dale,
  Your methods are like mine.  I make the turnout for a return loop in
the same electrical block as the approach.  I suspect, since I'm 
using Tortoises, that having the PSX-AR throw the turnout would
not be 'fast enough to matter' ... most of my locos have keep alives
in them and so I pretty much have to make sure the turnout is
properly aligned before I start into it.  Probably the only important
drawback to a keep alive ... but I'm willing to deal with that simply
because the advantages out weigh it.  Plus my philosophy is
"if you are running turnouts - you're not paying attention".  *G*
                                                                                                     - Jim
                                                                                - Jim


Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

Dale Muir
 

Hi JT,

 

Thanks for the note. I hope that helps. DCC is more sensitive to brief power interruptions. A brief DC power interruption might manifest as a small jerk that may go unnoticed. Same with very brief shorts.

Dale

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of John White
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 3:59 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] It shouldn't be doing this.

 

Hi Dale Muir
Thanks for offering up your idea on how you fixed your contact issue. I will have to remember that, as I have to figure out what it is about those trucks and why they worked just fine as DC but not DCC. It's really frustrating that it works one way and not the other. But then we are talking about DCC. Anyway thanks for your thoughts on this. It works like it should now and I haven't taken time to go back at it, with six acres to tend to, with trees down or partly down, from this past winter and moving things around for a big yard sale. You know how that is. Oh and the honey do list.
Enjoy your spring,
JT


Re: AR Vs Tortoise to power frog

Dale Muir
 

I use Tortoise contacts for frog polarity and DCC Specialties PSX-AR to control polarity of return loops. I keep the frog polarity completely independent of the return loop polarity and I have never had an issue. I have not experimented with having the AR unit throw the return loop turnout automatically.


Re: AR Vs Tortoise to power frog

Tim
 

I always use switch machine contacts to control frog polarity on turnouts and haven't had an issue. On my layout I mostly use Bluepoint machines, but Tortoises work the same way.

I also use DPDT relays controlled by switch machine contacts for reverse loop polarity. I don't plan on ever having any AR circuits on my layout ever, at any time, or in any location.

Tim


Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

John White
 

Hi Dale Muir
Thanks for offering up your idea on how you fixed your contact issue. I will have to remember that, as I have to figure out what it is about those trucks and why they worked just fine as DC but not DCC. It's really frustrating that it works one way and not the other. But then we are talking about DCC. Anyway thanks for your thoughts on this. It works like it should now and I haven't taken time to go back at it, with six acres to tend to, with trees down or partly down, from this past winter and moving things around for a big yard sale. You know how that is. Oh and the honey do list.
Enjoy your spring,
JT

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