Date   
Re: DCC Distribution comments, please

Blair & Rasa
 

Allan
Yes, I'm familiar with your website. The hole in the wall for wire is
possible, but as the offending wall is 10" concrete block, I'll only do it
if it saves me significant effort in wiring. As an electronics tech, the
wiring doesn't intimidate me, I just want to check my ideas against the
thoughts of those who have done this more than I have.

As for the DCS100 vs Booster debate, money is a concern as it is for most,
but I also see advantages to having equipment commonality, as opposed to
multiple different items, so it's a tradeoff.

I should give you some data about the layout as it is presently envisaged;
I'll post a schematic later this PM.
Thanks
Blair Smith

question about MRC auto reverse unit........

trainman2435 <trainman2435@...>
 

hello everyone, im new here and i have a question. i purchased a MRC
AD520 auto reverse unit about 6 or 8 months ago. since then i have
gotten my layout ready and need to install it. i am useing the new
Prodigy Advance DCC system and i need to control a reverse loop. the
unit itself has two yellow wires and two red wires. can someone tell
me where these hook to? i have lost the directions that came with the
AD520 since i bought it. any information is greatly appreciated.
thanks!
steve

Re: question about MRC auto reverse unit........

Marcus Ammann
 

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "trainman2435" <trainman2435@y...>
wrote:

hello everyone, im new here and i have a question. i purchased a MRC
AD520 auto reverse unit about 6 or 8 months ago. since then i have
gotten my layout ready and need to install it. i am useing the new
Prodigy Advance DCC system and i need to control a reverse loop. the
unit itself has two yellow wires and two red wires. can someone tell
me where these hook to? i have lost the directions that came with the
AD520 since i bought it. any information is greatly appreciated.
thanks!
steve
Steve

Connect the two red wires of the AD520 to your DCC output from your
booster and the two yellow wires to the section of track for the
reverse loop. You must double gap the track at the isolation points.

If the reverse loop uses the same turnout for entry/exit you can use a
switch/microswitch that is operated when the turnout is operated, thus
saving the use of the AD520 for something else like a return loop, a
wye or a turntable.

The turnout has to be operated to turn a train, so this
same "operation" can operate a switch/microswitch/relay etc.

Marcus

Re: DCC Distribution comments, please

Blair & Rasa
 

Allan, others
Schema posted last night, and previous file moved (one note - the schema
posted uses letters to designate connections; they are not related to the
letters used on the floor plan). In the schema, be advised that the yards
depicted vary from 8 to 12 tracks in width. The schema also doesn't show a
couple of important details; the CNR and CPR will either both have, or both
have access to, a reversing loop to allow trains in staging to be turned for
reuse in the same, or subsequent, sessions. The loops will be embedded in
the peninsula that starts at E. In addition, the future existence of a
helix at D and engine turning Y tracks at A and B were omitted.

Further thoughts/data:
I will be wiring the DCC bus with 14/2 Romex, stripped and twisted; each run
from the DCS100 will either run direct to the layout uninterrupted, or pass
through a PM42 or equivalent power distribution centre; other than a few
T-joints, which can have the main bus uninterrupted, there will be no breaks
or other connections to introduce higher impedance in the busses. However,
I am likely to have feeder stretches up to about 24" (actually 48" of wire).
Feeders will run to every piece of track and switch, I'm not fond of
soldering joiners unless I really need to for physical alignment.

Considering all of the above, I think my best bet is to locate boosters at
D(feeds BC, helix) & E (feeds BFG) , with the command station to the right
of A (feeding left of A thru to H). The duct (A-B) will be used to feed
loconet signals from A to B to D/E, but not a DCC bus. Of the three
locations, A will be the most accessible, so it is a good spot to put UR91,
DCS100.

Does anyone have any experience with the PS2012 from Digitrax? It looks
good, but I wonder about, in my situation, running a long DC bus from A to D
and E to get the power to these boosters. It may make a lot more sense to
have localized DC supplies than to buss that around the layout.

Turning to the loconet topic, the layout will be DT400R/UT4 operated, with
perhaps a Zephyr for one or more of the yards (a friend's layout is Zephyr
controlled, and he would like to utilize it on my layout so his young
daughters can participate. my guess is once they use a UT4, this issue will
go away, but...) In order to control the yards, it would seem to me that I
want loconet plugs, at a minimum, at each yard. However, are there other
good reasons for wanting them along the right-of-way? I can't see it. I
suppose one long run around the layout from yard to yard could always be
broken into later to install UP5 panels, but if I can, I'd like to avoid
that.

Funny, the process of writing this down for the list and thinking it
through leaves me with a workable plan, I think. If anyone can see
pitfalls, or better approaches, please fire away .
Regards
Blair Smith

IHC Cab Forward

gregpcrd <gregpcrd@...>
 

Anyone out there ever wire a IHC Cab Forward for DCC? I am lost even
figuring how to get it open.

Re: DCC Distribution comments, please

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Blair,

Regarding PS2012: I prefer to have a power source with each
booster/command station. Given the cost of individual power sources
and the PS2012, there really isn't a cost advantage either way. The
PS20212 surprises me as a product because I thought Digitrax was one
of the manufacturers that advised against using a common power source
for their boosters. Note that the Digitrax command station and
boosters can be powered by AC sources. DC is not required.

Loconet plugs: The only reason to have more Loconet plugs is if
someone comes over to operate that doesn't have wireless capability.

Loconet: There is no practical restriction as to how long your
Loconet can be. You can run it anywhere, anyway you want to.

Feeder length: Feeder lengths of 24" is not advised, but if you can
pass the short test (see http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track.htm#a16)
you can do it. You might want to consider branching off your main bus
with more 14 AWG sub buses to get shorter feeder lenghts.

question about bus lines and reverse loop.....

trainman2435 <trainman2435@...>
 

hello everyone, i was reading allans site and i noticed he says (Do
not connect your main bus to your reversing section in any way. Your
reversing section must only be connected to your reverse section
controller, reversing relay, or reversing switch.) what exactly does
this mean? how can i hook up my reverse loop to my MRC AD520 without
attaching anything to my main bus? im really confused, can someone
explain this to me please? thanks!
steve

Re: question about bus lines and reverse loop.....

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Steve,

Hook your reverse loop to your AD520. Then feed your AD520 from your
main bus or booster.

We have had a few occassions where people have wired their reverse
section controller, such as your AD520, to their reverse loop AND also
wired their main bus to the reverse loop. When the reverse section
controller tries to reverse, this wiring arrangement shorts out the
main bus. Never attach your main bus to the reverse loop.

Go to this URL:
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#a9
This is a reverse loop using a relay to reverse the loop. Just
imagine your AD520 in place of the relay. Notice that the wiring of
the main bus is different colors than that used to feed the reverse
loop. In this drawing, do not attach the blue and magenta colored
main bus to the green and red reverse loop.

Re: DCC Distribution comments, please

Blair & Rasa
 

Allan
See individual responses below. By the way, thank you both for the effort
put into your website, which I've been following for at least two years now,
and for this new group. Just pulling this together so I could ask some
questions has served to both focus my thinking on the bus issues, and
address some misgivings I had.

Regarding PS2012: I prefer to have a power source with each
booster/command station. Given the cost of individual power sources
and the PS2012, there really isn't a cost advantage either way. The
PS20212 surprises me as a product because I thought Digitrax was one
of the manufacturers that advised against using a common power source
for their boosters.
They've said in their manual that this is because each booster should have
it's own current protection device, which seems to be why they also include
a Y-adapter (including current limiters) to feed multiple boosters from the
PS2012. Anyway, I'm in your camp for other reasons; home-kitting
half-a-dozen 5-Amp boxes with transformers, fuzes, switches, idiot lights,
and suitable connection means is a no-brainer, and then I know what I've
got, and it's modular; not to mention ease of repair.

Note that the Digitrax command station and
boosters can be powered by AC sources. DC is not required.
yep. And transformers are cheap. I've never seen a schematic for a DCC
booster, but I presume the first input element is a bridge rectifier (this
permits use of either polarity of DC as well as AC for feed - maximizes
robustness); if so, putting a bridge in the transformer chassis would be
redundant unless the transformer chosen is high enough in voltage that we
want to shed a few watts OUTSIDE the booster. BUT, do boosters run cooler
with DC rather than AC input? Does anyone know? It doesn't seem reasonable
from a transformer-diode-filter cap type of power supply point of view, but
I presume they're using switching technology given the size of the box for a
DCS100, so I don't know if there are differences in efficiency between
sinusoid AC and smooth DC input.

Loconet plugs: The only reason to have more Loconet plugs is if
someone comes over to operate that doesn't have wireless capability.
Okay, hadn't considered that, but it's my layout. If I'm willing to
relegate visitors to yard ops unless they bring a radio throttle, that's my
choice.

Loconet: There is no practical restriction as to how long your
Loconet can be. You can run it anywhere, anyway you want to.
Feeder length: Feeder lengths of 24" is not advised, but if you can
pass the short test (see http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track.htm#a16)
you can do it. You might want to consider branching off your main bus
with more 14 AWG sub buses to get shorter feeder lengths.
Okay, theory discussion follows. Is it better to put a joint in the
high-current main bus, or a bit more length in the
feeders? Thinking about it, the resistance of a copper-solder-copper joint
has just got to be up there in the same league as several feet of smaller
gauge wire. So unless I'm off-base, and I haven't actually checked this
with the a milli-ohmmeter, it would actually not really matter which way I
went. The primary concern is the coin test, and that's up to me to try. As
far as I'm concerned, any branch in the main bus is at least as much of
concern as multiple feeders, because the main bus joint will see a larger
proportion of the total current being delivered to the loads.

Blair Smith
Deep River, Ontario, Canada.
Where there's still 18" of snow in the bush, and a good month for model
railroading before the yardwork begins.

Re: DCC Distribution comments, please

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Even if you branch off your main bus with more 14 AWG, one joint
isn't going to hurt you. My main bus passes through several screw
terminals before the power arrives to the track. Bottom line, if
you can pass the quarter short-circuit test, you are good to go.

I wouldn't think whether you used a DC or an AC source would
matter. If a device can operate on AC, then if you use a DC supply,
it will still pass through the same circuitry inside the booster as
if you used AC - generating the same amount of heat. We will have
to see if anyone else knows any differently. What I think is
important is that your source, whether AC or DC, not put a voltage
that is significantly higher than the anticipated track voltage.
The differential will certainly be dissapated as wasted heat in the
booster. If you use the PS2012 for example, don't set it to G-scale
and then run your boosters set to HO.

I think you are fine with your plan on Loconet jacks. Even if you
have friends come over, I think most people have gone wireless.
Everyone I know in my area has done so. Besides, if you have enough
throttles to provide to your operators, you don't have to worry
about people coming over with a non-wireless throttle.

Having the jacks near the yards and such is good for two reasons.
1. So you can assign engines. 2. There appears to be a slight
delay when using wireless. So some of us do our switching plugged
in to a jack.

Re: DCC Distribution comments, please

Blair & Rasa
 

Agreed. However, I see 12 VDC and 12 VRMS as potentially very different
inputs, depending upon how the booster deals with the input. If a rectifier
bridge and filter cap, even if small, are used, then the 12VRMS will result
in 15-16 VDC in, vs 12VDC from a 12 V power pack. So I think we need to
know more about what the booster does with AC vs DC input power. The real
proof is if we run 5A of load on the DCC bus with different voltage inputs,
AC and DC, and measure how long it takes for the DCS100 to shut down in
disgust. (big grin - try this with caution, folks, it's not smart to let
the magic smoke out of the DCS100).

However, I'm not generally in favor of running into walls just to make sure
they are solid, nor would I run a booster at full rated load just to check
dissipation. If the rail voltage we eventually have is high enough for
full-throttle satisfaction, so be it.
Thanks again
Blair

Re: question about bus lines and reverse loop.....

trainman2435 <trainman2435@...>
 

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "wirefordcc"
<wire4dcc_admin@c...> wrote:
thank you very much, it all makes sense now. you guys and gals are
great, and i love this site!
Steve,

Hook your reverse loop to your AD520. Then feed your AD520 from
your
main bus or booster.

We have had a few occassions where people have wired their reverse
section controller, such as your AD520, to their reverse loop AND
also
wired their main bus to the reverse loop. When the reverse
section
controller tries to reverse, this wiring arrangement shorts out
the
main bus. Never attach your main bus to the reverse loop.

Go to this URL:
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#a9
This is a reverse loop using a relay to reverse the loop. Just
imagine your AD520 in place of the relay. Notice that the wiring
of
the main bus is different colors than that used to feed the
reverse
loop. In this drawing, do not attach the blue and magenta colored
main bus to the green and red reverse loop.

Tortoise switch machines

hotrains2001 <hotrains@...>
 

I will be useing Bi-polar DC & Radio Shack 2 pole 6 position rotary
switches with diodes on 10 turnouts to 11 track hidden staging yard.
Armadillo & Western Diode Matrix for stall motors shows what i can do
but i would like to operate the 10 tortoise from 2 positions as shown
useing DPDT switches in Model Railroader July 2002 Page 74 but
substitute rotary switches.
Is someone able to tell me if this is possible to do & supply a wiring
diagram.
Any help would be appreciated.
This is on my DIGITRAX DCC layout in progress.

Jim McMahon

From Command 2000 to DCC

ivaraas <ivar-aas@...>
 

Hi!

I'm new to the forum. I'm 59 year, and live in Norway, having an US
type Model railroad. I have used Command control since the CTC16 in
the
1980's.
I use Command 2000 now, but have planned to change to Easy DCC this
summer. Then I can by my dekoders much cheaper here in Norway.
I'm using Bruce Chubb's C/MRI and a PC, to drive my Dispatcher panel,
signals and swithes on the rairoad.
My railroad use 2 boosters, (cut in both rails between them)and my
detectors use about 30 blocks (cut in 1 rails). All my ground wiring
(both for trains and C/MRI) are connected together.
Does anyone know if I have to rewire my railroad?. Are DCC so very
different fram Command 2000?

Ivar Aas

Re: From Command 2000 to DCC

Todd Schacherl <todds@...>
 

If you are talking about the MRC Command 2000, that is DCC so switching to
another DCC system is going to be no different. Other than features of
course.

Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: ivaraas [mailto:ivar-aas@...]
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 9:54 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] From Command 2000 to DCC




Hi!

I'm new to the forum. I'm 59 year, and live in Norway, having an US
type Model railroad. I have used Command control since the CTC16 in the
1980's.
I use Command 2000 now, but have planned to change to Easy DCC this
summer. Then I can by my dekoders much cheaper here in Norway. I'm using
Bruce Chubb's C/MRI and a PC, to drive my Dispatcher panel,
signals and swithes on the rairoad.
My railroad use 2 boosters, (cut in both rails between them)and my
detectors use about 30 blocks (cut in 1 rails). All my ground wiring
(both for trains and C/MRI) are connected together.
Does anyone know if I have to rewire my railroad?. Are DCC so very
different fram Command 2000?

Ivar Aas





http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: From Command 2000 to DCC

ivaraas <ivar-aas@...>
 

Sorry, I ment Rail Command, not Command 2000. From the same company
that make Easy DCC.

Ivar



--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Todd Schacherl" <todds@z...>
wrote:
If you are talking about the MRC Command 2000, that is DCC so
switching to
another DCC system is going to be no different. Other than features of
course.

Todd

Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Tortoise switch machines

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

I'll look up the MR reference, but if you have an 11 track staging yard why not use a single 11 position rotary switch with diode matrix and pull-up resistors to select 1 of 11 possible routes? This scheme is also shown in MR a couple of years back. See Digi-Key p/n EG1952-ND for the rotary switch I use.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: hotrains2001 [mailto:hotrains@...]
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 11:43 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Tortoise switch machines




I will be useing Bi-polar DC & Radio Shack 2 pole 6 position rotary
switches with diodes on 10 turnouts to 11 track hidden staging yard.
Armadillo & Western Diode Matrix for stall motors shows what i can do
but i would like to operate the 10 tortoise from 2 positions as shown
useing DPDT switches in Model Railroader July 2002 Page 74 but
substitute rotary switches.
Is someone able to tell me if this is possible to do & supply a wiring
diagram.
Any help would be appreciated.
This is on my DIGITRAX DCC layout in progress.

Jim McMahon





http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Tortoise switch machines

Jim McMahon <hotrains@...>
 

Don Volrath

Thanks for the info certainly makes sense to use more contacts on the one switch checked the price at Digi-Key site. Do you have the date on the article you refer to.
Is it possible to have 2 rotary switches connected to control the tortoise machines from 2 locations.

Jim McMahon

Re: Tortoise switch machines

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Jim, the MR item, July 2002 was only for multiple toggle switches. Not all that good for yard throat control. I don't remember the date of the one I was thinking of but I'll dig out my notes on the application and post it in the files section.

Yes you can have more than one rotary switch to select the yard throat route...but only one at a time. I'll add that to my posted file also.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim McMahon [mailto:hotrains@...]
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 9:15 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Tortoise switch machines



Don Volrath

Thanks for the info certainly makes sense to use more contacts on the one switch checked the price at Digi-Key site. Do you have the date on the article you refer to.
Is it possible to have 2 rotary switches connected to control the tortoise machines from 2 locations.

Jim McMahon

wiring a scissor crossing

jonathan_buckie <jonathan_buckie@...>
 

I am building a model of Great Shefford, on of the stations on the
Lambourn Valley Railway set in the mid 30's. One of the main features
of this station was the scissor crossing which allowed access to the
horse-loading platform.

My question is how do I wire up the scissor. As I have read, the ZTC
instruction book but am still not sure.

Thanks.