Date   
Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

Craig Zeni
 

Or...use SPDT slide switches as both the power router and mechanical point throw...cheap as chips and reliable.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC

On Aug 26, 2017, at 8:26 AM, Brad Ketchen @bketchen [WiringForDCC] wrote:



Tam Valley Frog juicers are expensive. Might as well buy new turnouts. Micro Engineering are the best for handthrowing as I do myself.. I've always had issues with Shinohara's (as I call them 'Shitohara's).

Brad

On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 9:26 AM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Yes. As with all power routing types... Isolate the diverging frog exit rails at the end of the turnout by using insulated rail joiners, and add a Frog Juicer to supplement the power connection at the corrected polarity from the points.



DonV



---In WiringForDCC@..., <tmurray63034@...> wrote :

I have 13 remaining "non DCC friendly" Shinohara turnouts on my layout that have served well in DC. Now planning to convert to DCC, and reading the "Wiring for DCC" page, I have a dilemma. I don't desire to use tortoises or mechanically linked switches to power route the isolated points, frog, and closure rails. I want to keep the brakeman's job secure (I like to hand throw turnouts) and it would be too expensive to replace all of the turnouts. It appears that the only good choice would be to purchase a couple Tam Valley Hex DCC Frog Juicers as this would also solve the "points as contacts" issue.. Am I on the right track? Thanks!

Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

Thomas Murray
 

To me, the slide switches takes away from the scale appearance and $150 for (2) TV juicers vs $385 for new turnouts. Each Hex juicer covers (6) turnouts. (1) mono juicer for the remaining turnout.  Thanks for the input.



Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S7.

-------- Original message --------
From: "Brad Ketchen bketchen@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...>
Date: 8/26/17 7:26 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

 

Tam Valley Frog juicers are expensive. Might as well buy new turnouts. Micro Engineering are the best for handthrowing as I do myself.. I've always had issues with Shinohara's (as I call them 'Shitohara's). 

Brad

On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 9:26 AM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Yes. As with all power routing types... Isolate the diverging frog exit rails at the end of the turnout by using insulated rail joiners, and add a Frog Juicer to supplement the power connection at the corrected polarity from the points.


DonV



---In WiringForDCC@..., <tmurray63034@...> wrote :

I have 13 remaining "non DCC friendly" Shinohara turnouts on my layout that have served well in DC. Now planning to convert to DCC, and reading the "Wiring for DCC" page, I have a dilemma. I don't desire to use tortoises or mechanically linked switches to power route the isolated points, frog, and closure rails. I want to keep the brakeman's job secure (I like to hand throw turnouts) and it would be too expensive to replace all of the turnouts. It appears that the only good choice would be to purchase a couple Tam Valley Hex DCC Frog Juicers as this would also solve the "points as contacts" issue.. Am I on the right track? Thanks!


Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

Annette and Dante Fuligni
 

If your operation can use the turnouts as power-routing units, you will not need to use the Frog Juicers. For example, they can be used for stub-ended spurs or yard tracks. Frog juicers are for use on isolated (insulated), unpowered frogs that are too long for your locos that will lose power passing over unpowered frogs because they have short-wheel-base pick-ups. (Or you can instal decoders with keep-alive function in those locos.)

Dante

Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

Brian Eiland
 

 How about utilizing a double crossover Shinohara on a DCC layout,...any problems, fixes, etc.
i have one that I might like to use on my new layout plan
Brian



On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 11:33 PM, Dante Fuligni dfuligni2144@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

If your operation can use the turnouts as power-routing units, you will not need to use the Frog Juicers. For example, they can be used for stub-ended spurs or yard tracks. Frog juicers are for use on isolated (insulated), unpowered frogs that are too long for your locos that will lose power passing over unpowered frogs because they have short-wheel-base pick-ups. (Or you can instal decoders with keep-alive function in those locos.)

Dante


Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

dvollrath@...
 

Dante,

You are missing the 2nd half of the reason to use a Frog-Juicer... it supplements the often poor electrical connection of the point rail connections to power the frog and frog rails... Particularly useful when used with power routing turnouts. The momentary act of one of the turnout points touching one of the stock rails causes the Frog Juicer to flip to the proper polarity and supply reliable power to the points, frog, frog rails and a track stub if you chose to do so. Of course there are other ways to do it involving SPDT switches. And it will not fix the operator issue of running into a turnout with the points thrown in the wrong direction.


DonV



---In WiringForDCC@..., <dfuligni2144@...> wrote :

If your operation can use the turnouts as power-routing units, you will not need to use the Frog Juicers. For example, they can be used for stub-ended spurs or yard tracks. Frog juicers are for use on isolated (insulated), unpowered frogs that are too long for your locos that will lose power passing over unpowered frogs because they have short-wheel-base pick-ups. (Or you can instal decoders with keep-alive function in those locos.)

Dante

Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

David Klemm
 

My philosophy is also to not rely on the power routing of a turnout.  Over time the wipers will wear or dirt will get in there and impede contact and thus the current.  All the turnouts get a powered frog and our club uses the TAM Valley product on hundreds of turnouts.


David




From: WiringForDCC@... on behalf of dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 9:29 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts
 
 

Dante,

You are missing the 2nd half of the reason to use a Frog-Juicer... it supplements the often poor electrical connection of the point rail connections to power the frog and frog rails... Particularly useful when used with power routing turnouts. The momentary act of one of the turnout points touching one of the stock rails causes the Frog Juicer to flip to the proper polarity and supply reliable power to the points, frog, frog rails and a track stub if you chose to do so. Of course there are other ways to do it involving SPDT switches. And it will not fix the operator issue of running into a turnout with the points thrown in the wrong direction.


DonV



---In WiringForDCC@...,
If your operation can use the turnouts as power-routing units, you will not need to use the Frog Juicers. For example, they can be used for stub-ended spurs or yard tracks. Frog juicers are for use on isolated (insulated), unpowered frogs that are too long for your locos that will lose power passing over unpowered frogs because they have short-wheel-base pick-ups. (Or you can instal decoders with keep-alive function in those locos.)

Dante

Re: Automated 'Block' Entry

Brian Eiland
 

Power Blocks to Prevent Collisions

 

You will find I have 3 loops of track on the lower level:
1) the one associated with the turntable area (in blue)
2) the one associated with the port area (in red)
3) the one that circles the entire perimeter of the layout when the removable bridge at the entrance is in place.

Both of the loops share some track with the perimeter track, so if one was trying to run trains on all 3 at the same time, there would have to be a way to block the outer loop train from moving into a section occupied by those loop trains. I've got a general idea of how to make it work, but I don't know the specifics on the electronics, etc Perhaps I'll do a 'color' presentation......back to that paint program.

As I said I have a 'perimeter loop' in addition to those 2 inner loops I high-lighted above. But both of them share some track with the perimeter loop.  If I had the lift-out bridge in place and desired to try and run 3 trains at the same time, I need some power blocking technics to prevent collisions. The way I see it is my 2 loop trains have the right-away over the perimeter train in all cases.

So I need to block power to the track sections marked here in gold whenever there is a train in the green sections of those loops.

                                                                        Power block for port loop

                                                                  

                                                                    Power block for turntable loop

 

I'm not really hot on the electronics of this, but isn't there a basic detector that would sense when a locomotive was in the green sectors of either of those inner loops, .....and then an 'interupter' to cut power in those gold sectors? In DCC mode wouldn't you only have to interupt one side of the main bus-line for those gold sectors??

Brian


On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 8:56 AM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 


the filename is Following Protection Plan.docx

There are several other files with the poster's name of donevol.. that's me.
DonV

---In WiringForDCC@..., <azMikeG@...> wrote :

Hi Don,

Is it the file named “Auto Balloon Loop Control.pdf”?

That appears to switch the tortoise machines rather than controlling the power.



Peace,

Mike G. 


Re: Automated 'Block' Entry

Jan Boen
 

Hi,

Please note that the entry of the bottom golden section into the blue part which in itself is a turning (or reversing) loop. This presents an additional polarity problem and you will get a short circuit when moving from the golden section into the blue loop if you're not careful.
You can avoid this problem by not having the double X-slip on the right top hand side.

Please familiarize yourself with the reversing loop problem and work out at which point you will resolve it.

This is a key issue in any typical 2-rail (i.e. DC or DCC lay-out), only if you use 3-rail system such as Märklin's you can avoid reversing loop issues.

That said please provide a correct drawing of your lay-out where it is possible to see what is actually connected to what and if you want I will point out where you may have to reconsider from an electrical point what you're doing.

Best regards,


Jan
(MSc, Electronics Engineer)

On 28/08/2017 20:27, railandsail railandsail@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
 

Power Blocks to Prevent Collisions

 

You will find I have 3 loops of track on the lower level:
1) the one associated with the turntable area (in blue)
2) the one associated with the port area (in red)
3) the one that circles the entire perimeter of the layout when the removable bridge at the entrance is in place.

Both of the loops share some track with the perimeter track, so if one was trying to run trains on all 3 at the same time, there would have to be a way to block the outer loop train from moving into a section occupied by those loop trains. I've got a general idea of how to make it work, but I don't know the specifics on the electronics, etc Perhaps I'll do a 'color' presentation......back to that paint program.

As I said I have a 'perimeter loop' in addition to those 2 inner loops I high-lighted above. But both of them share some track with the perimeter loop.  If I had the lift-out bridge in place and desired to try and run 3 trains at the same time, I need some power blocking technics to prevent collisions. The way I see it is my 2 loop trains have the right-away over the perimeter train in all cases.

So I need to block power to the track sections marked here in gold whenever there is a train in the green sections of those loops.

                                                                        Power block for port loop

                                                                  

                                                                    Power block for turntable loop

 

I'm not really hot on the electronics of this, but isn't there a basic detector that would sense when a locomotive was in the green sectors of either of those inner loops, .....and then an 'interupter' to cut power in those gold sectors? In DCC mode wouldn't you only have to interupt one side of the main bus-line for those gold sectors??

Brian


On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 8:56 AM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 


the filename is Following Protection Plan.docx

There are several other files with the poster's name of donevol.. that's me.
DonV

---In WiringForDCC@..., <azMikeG@...> wrote :

Hi Don,

Is it the file named “Auto Balloon Loop Control.pdf”?

That appears to switch the tortoise machines rather than controlling the power.



Peace,

Mike G. 


Re: Automated 'Block' Entry

Brian Eiland
 

Thank you sir, I probably need to get a little further along with a final design first.

I still have so many people (most overweight ones I suspect) telling me I need wider aisles, and to eliminate the peninsula altogether. Not going to do that, but I will take any other suggestions that might make it easier to wire/build.
Brian

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Jan Boen jan.boen@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Hi,

Please note that the entry of the bottom golden section into the blue part which in itself is a turning (or reversing) loop. This presents an additional polarity problem and you will get a short circuit when moving from the golden section into the blue loop if you're not careful.
You can avoid this problem by not having the double X-slip on the right top hand side.

Please familiarize yourself with the reversing loop problem and work out at which point you will resolve it.

This is a key issue in any typical 2-rail (i.e. DC or DCC lay-out), only if you use 3-rail system such as Märklin's you can avoid reversing loop issues.

That said please provide a correct drawing of your lay-out where it is possible to see what is actually connected to what and if you want I will point out where you may have to reconsider from an electrical point what you're doing.

Best regards,


Jan
(MSc, Electronics Engineer)



On 28/08/2017 20:27, railandsail railandsail@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
 

Power Blocks to Prevent Collisions

 

You will find I have 3 loops of track on the lower level:
1) the one associated with the turntable area (in blue)
2) the one associated with the port area (in red)
3) the one that circles the entire perimeter of the layout when the removable bridge at the entrance is in place.

Both of the loops share some track with the perimeter track, so if one was trying to run trains on all 3 at the same time, there would have to be a way to block the outer loop train from moving into a section occupied by those loop trains. I've got a general idea of how to make it work, but I don't know the specifics on the electronics, etc Perhaps I'll do a 'color' presentation......back to that paint program.

As I said I have a 'perimeter loop' in addition to those 2 inner loops I high-lighted above. But both of them share some track with the perimeter loop.  If I had the lift-out bridge in place and desired to try and run 3 trains at the same time, I need some power blocking technics to prevent collisions. The way I see it is my 2 loop trains have the right-away over the perimeter train in all cases.

So I need to block power to the track sections marked here in gold whenever there is a train in the green sections of those loops.

                                                                        Power block for port loop

                                                                  

                                                                    Power block for turntable loop

 

I'm not really hot on the electronics of this, but isn't there a basic detector that would sense when a locomotive was in the green sectors of either of those inner loops, .....and then an 'interupter' to cut power in those gold sectors? In DCC mode wouldn't you only have to interupt one side of the main bus-line for those gold sectors??

Brian


On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 8:56 AM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 


the filename is Following Protection Plan.docx

There are several other files with the poster's name of donevol.. that's me.
DonV

---In WiringForDCC@..., <azMikeG@...> wrote :

Hi Don,

Is it the file named “Auto Balloon Loop Control.pdf”?

That appears to switch the tortoise machines rather than controlling the power.



Peace,

Mike G. 



Re: Automated 'Block' Entry

george hohon3
 

Brian,

I'm 6' 4" and as they say, skinny as a rail.  You need bigger aisles, plain and simple.  Trust those comments you have received and take them seriously.  If you ever start building this plan of yours, I'm willing to bet before the first train ever runs you're gonna be wishing for wider aisles.  Especially at the narrow space entering either side of the layout next to the peninsula.

LG


On Aug 28, 2017, at 3:38 PM, railandsail railandsail@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

Thank you sir, I probably need to get a little further along with a final design first.

I still have so many people (most overweight ones I suspect) telling me I need wider aisles, and to eliminate the peninsula altogether. Not going to do that, but I will take any other suggestions that might make it easier to wire/build.
Brian

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Jan Boen jan.boen@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Hi,

Please note that the entry of the bottom golden section into the blue part which in itself is a turning (or reversing) loop. This presents an additional polarity problem and you will get a short circuit when moving from the golden section into the blue loop if you're not careful.
You can avoid this problem by not having the double X-slip on the right top hand side.

Please familiarize yourself with the reversing loop problem and work out at which point you will resolve it.

This is a key issue in any typical 2-rail (i.e. DC or DCC lay-out), only if you use 3-rail system such as Märklin's you can avoid reversing loop issues.

That said please provide a correct drawing of your lay-out where it is possible to see what is actually connected to what and if you want I will point out where you may have to reconsider from an electrical point what you're doing.

Best regards,


Jan
(MSc, Electronics Engineer)



On 28/08/2017 20:27, railandsail railandsail@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
 

Power Blocks to Prevent Collisions

 

You will find I have 3 loops of track on the lower level:
1) the one associated with the turntable area (in blue)
2) the one associated with the port area (in red)
3) the one that circles the entire perimeter of the layout when the removable bridge at the entrance is in place.

Both of the loops share some track with the perimeter track, so if one was trying to run trains on all 3 at the same time, there would have to be a way to block the outer loop train from moving into a section occupied by those loop trains. I've got a general idea of how to make it work, but I don't know the specifics on the electronics, etc Perhaps I'll do a 'color' presentation......back to that paint program.

As I said I have a 'perimeter loop' in addition to those 2 inner loops I high-lighted above. But both of them share some track with the perimeter loop.  If I had the lift-out bridge in place and desired to try and run 3 trains at the same time, I need some power blocking technics to prevent collisions. The way I see it is my 2 loop trains have the right-away over the perimeter train in all cases.

So I need to block power to the track sections marked here in gold whenever there is a train in the green sections of those loops.

                                                                        Power block for port loop

                                                                  

                                                                    Power block for turntable loop

 

I'm not really hot on the electronics of this, but isn't there a basic detector that would sense when a locomotive was in the green sectors of either of those inner loops, .....and then an 'interupter' to cut power in those gold sectors? In DCC mode wouldn't you only have to interupt one side of the main bus-line for those gold sectors??

Brian


On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 8:56 AM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 


the filename is Following Protection Plan.docx

There are several other files with the poster's name of donevol.. that's me.
DonV

---In WiringForDCC@..., <azMikeG@...> wrote :

Hi Don,

Is it the file named “Auto Balloon Loop Control.pdf”?

That appears to switch the tortoise machines rather than controlling the power.



Peace,

Mike G. 



Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

Annette and Dante Fuligni
 

I understand the use of the Frog Juicers for powered frogs as you folks describe it, but I don’t philosophically believe in that “belt and suspenders” approach to wiring unless it develops that the turnout really requires it. I have both the W/S DCC-friendly and the old-style powered frog units. I also have Frog Juicers to power several of the DCC-friendly frogs (but not all). The layout has run for several years without the contact problems you describe. If and when such problems develop, I can easily add the Frog Juicer(s). In the meantime, I save time, money and effort by not juicing every frog.

Dante

Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

Blair & Rasa
 

I agree with the philosophy, Dante, but when laying new switches, I do put a wire drop in from the frog to below the layout.  That way, in future, juicing the frog isn't a painful task, should it become a problematic switch.

Blair

On 17/08/28 23:08, Dante Fuligni dfuligni2144@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
I understand the use of the Frog Juicers for powered frogs as you folks describe it, but I don’t philosophically believe in that “belt and suspenders” approach to wiring unless it develops that the turnout really requires it. I have both the W/S DCC-friendly and the old-style powered frog units. I also have Frog Juicers to power several of the DCC-friendly frogs (but not all). The layout has run for several years without the contact problems you describe. If and when such problems develop, I can easily add the Frog Juicer(s). In the meantime, I save time, money and effort by not juicing every frog.

Dante

------------------------------------
Posted by: Dante Fuligni <dfuligni2144@...>
------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.com
------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

Brad Ketchen <bketchen@...>
 

I am currently using two of my old Shinohara turnouts (code 100 unfortuantely) temporarily until I can afford to buy new ones...and I need about 5 now at about $30 ea... but Shinohara's are used on two of my 'end of steel' spurs. If the engine has only one car to deliver, then I use a cut of cars in front of the car for delivery to reach in so that the engine does not have to cross over the frog. And more switching to do so..all the better. 

and...2 of the spurs are for a cement factory. I could always isolate the two tracks via plastic joiners and run a GE 44 tonner to switch the cars inside the plant. So I can benefit operationally from these old turnouts.

A little more interesting than all this Frog juicer/polarity tech talk. ;)

Brad

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:08 PM, Dante Fuligni dfuligni2144@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

I understand the use of the Frog Juicers for powered frogs as you folks describe it, but I don’t philosophically believe in that “belt and suspenders” approach to wiring unless it develops that the turnout really requires it. I have both the W/S DCC-friendly and the old-style powered frog units. I also have Frog Juicers to power several of the DCC-friendly frogs (but not all). The layout has run for several years without the contact problems you describe. If and when such problems develop, I can easily add the Frog Juicer(s). In the meantime, I save time, money and effort by not juicing every frog.

Dante


Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

Mark Cartwright
 

Just a note on Shinohara....
I struggled with Shinohara from around 1976 to 1982 in N Scale.....And then nearly gave up the hobby all together. It wasn't even in Gauge...I had to go over near every mm of my small layout, with an NMRA Thingy in my hand.....
I put it all aside for the next 30 years, till I owned a paid off basement with a house on top. 
And though I still have a bunch of it in a Time Capsule Drawer.....> It stays in there.
Here's the thing...
If you have to struggle too much = You are doing it wrong or perhaps should not have started in the first place....Like an Ex-Girl-friend who has been married 7 time; since I last lived with her. Wonderful Woman...However.....I predicted that, for I didn't marry her. (I used to call her Scarlett for a Reason.)
but I digress...
===
I started out with an N Scale Layout in 1969, in Atlas track of the day and then went to Shinohara around 1975. As a University Student on a serious budget, I remember walking home and eating lunch/dinner in my apartment for nearly a month ! To save just $25 for a Shinohara Double Crossover for my Coffee Table Layout. 
>>>> Even the plan from a book in 1971, I would not approve as an operational plan....Too many damn switches on too many tight curves....
Today...as an officially old man of 64 years old...
No
Been there done that.
So...
Here's the thing...
I recommend not struggling; that is without at least calming down and re-evaluating your whole situation from time to time.
and if you are considering using Shinohara?
Think again.
:)) Mark

When I was six years old, I was given Korean War Vintage Steel Track on clip on cardboard ties.
Near Terrible thing to do to a poor young model railroader on a bottle budget...But I did get it to work..and it motivated me to ?
Make More Money.

Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

Brad Ketchen <bketchen@...>
 

I agree about Shinohara turnouts. I had always problems on my DC layout and had to bin half of them...even trying to wire them up. It was nice you could park a locomotive on the track the points weren't directed to... but extremely problematic. My friends with bigger layouts never used them. 

Save up for my new ones.. perhaps work on another area of the layout. Or like i've done for a work around.. i've abandoned a spur until I can afford more turnouts and avoid the headaches/heartaches and overall aggravation. After all the modeling of abandoned spurs is very accurate where I live in and around Toronto and provide a really nice modeling touch.

Other problematic turnouts I have are the Atlas that come in a bit cheaper... however the points are really loose and do not want to use those oversized unprotypical caboose Industries ground throws. People have these picturesque/near accurate layouts and they use those awful ground throws..

Good luck!
Brad

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 8:30 AM, marcdecapri@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Just a note on Shinohara....

I struggled with Shinohara from around 1976 to 1982 in N Scale.....And then nearly gave up the hobby all together. It wasn't even in Gauge...I had to go over near every mm of my small layout, with an NMRA Thingy in my hand.....
I put it all aside for the next 30 years, till I owned a paid off basement with a house on top. 
And though I still have a bunch of it in a Time Capsule Drawer.....> It stays in there.
Here's the thing...
If you have to struggle too much = You are doing it wrong or perhaps should not have started in the first place....Like an Ex-Girl-friend who has been married 7 time; since I last lived with her. Wonderful Woman...However.....I predicted that, for I didn't marry her. (I used to call her Scarlett for a Reason.)
but I digress...
===
I started out with an N Scale Layout in 1969, in Atlas track of the day and then went to Shinohara around 1975. As a University Student on a serious budget, I remember walking home and eating lunch/dinner in my apartment for nearly a month ! To save just $25 for a Shinohara Double Crossover for my Coffee Table Layout. 
>>>> Even the plan from a book in 1971, I would not approve as an operational plan....Too many damn switches on too many tight curves....
Today...as an officially old man of 64 years old...
No
Been there done that.
So...
Here's the thing...
I recommend not struggling; that is without at least calming down and re-evaluating your whole situation from time to time.
and if you are considering using Shinohara?
Think again.
:)) Mark

When I was six years old, I was given Korean War Vintage Steel Track on clip on cardboard ties.
Near Terrible thing to do to a poor young model railroader on a bottle budget...But I did get it to work..and it motivated me to ?
Make More Money.


Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

Craig Zeni
 

One of the issues I always had with the Shinohara turnouts was that they didn't meet the NMRA gauge...the gap between the curved stock rail and the open point was almost always tight...the backside of a wheel that wasn't perfectly in gauge would hit that point rail - instant short.

If the point rail gets adjusted etc to make it meet the NMRA gauge, and the wheels are in gauge, they're decent turnouts...the old ones will work fine with DCC and powered frogs.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC

On Aug 29, 2017, at 9:45 AM, Brad Ketchen @bketchen [WiringForDCC] wrote:



I agree about Shinohara turnouts. I had always problems on my DC layout and had to bin half of them...even trying to wire them up. It was nice you could park a locomotive on the track the points weren't directed to... but extremely problematic. My friends with bigger layouts never used them.

Save up for my new ones.. perhaps work on another area of the layout. Or like i've done for a work around.. i've abandoned a spur until I can afford more turnouts and avoid the headaches/heartaches and overall aggravation. After all the modeling of abandoned spurs is very accurate where I live in and around Toronto and provide a really nice modeling touch.

Other problematic turnouts I have are the Atlas that come in a bit cheaper... however the points are really loose and do not want to use those oversized unprotypical caboose Industries ground throws. People have these picturesque/near accurate layouts and they use those awful ground throws..

Good luck!
Brad

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 8:30 AM, marcdecapri@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
Just a note on Shinohara....

I struggled with Shinohara from around 1976 to 1982 in N Scale.....And then nearly gave up the hobby all together. It wasn't even in Gauge...I had to go over near every mm of my small layout, with an NMRA Thingy in my hand.....
I put it all aside for the next 30 years, till I owned a paid off basement with a house on top.
And though I still have a bunch of it in a Time Capsule Drawer.....> It stays in there.
Here's the thing...
If you have to struggle too much = You are doing it wrong or perhaps should not have started in the first place....Like an Ex-Girl-friend who has been married 7 time; since I last lived with her. Wonderful Woman...However.....I predicted that, for I didn't marry her. (I used to call her Scarlett for a Reason.)
but I digress...
===
I started out with an N Scale Layout in 1969, in Atlas track of the day and then went to Shinohara around 1975. As a University Student on a serious budget, I remember walking home and eating lunch/dinner in my apartment for nearly a month ! To save just $25 for a Shinohara Double Crossover for my Coffee Table Layout.
Even the plan from a book in 1971, I would not approve as an operational plan....Too many damn switches on too many tight curves....
Today...as an officially old man of 64 years old...
No
Been there done that.
So...
Here's the thing...
I recommend not struggling; that is without at least calming down and re-evaluating your whole situation from time to time.
and if you are considering using Shinohara?
Think again.
:)) Mark

When I was six years old, I was given Korean War Vintage Steel Track on clip on cardboard ties.
Near Terrible thing to do to a poor young model railroader on a bottle budget...But I did get it to work..and it motivated me to ?
Make More Money.




Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

Thomas Murray
 

Thanks all for your inputs as they were all valid. In the past I've purchased (8) DCC Walthers Shino's as replacements because I like the appearance of these over others. I even added a tiny music wire spring to all turnouts that's hardly noticeable when painted. The dead frogs of the "new" cause no problems for my locos. The "olds" will stay until I start running DCC and if problems arise I'll probably replace them with "bonded" DCC Shino's. The "juicers" can always be traded or sold if not needed. Thanks!!



tmurray

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