Date   
Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

dvollrath@...
 

Yes. As with all power routing types... Isolate the diverging frog exit rails at the end of the turnout by using insulated rail joiners, and add a Frog Juicer to supplement the power connection at the corrected polarity from the points.


DonV



---In WiringForDCC@..., <tmurray63034@...> wrote :

I have 13 remaining "non DCC friendly" Shinohara turnouts on my layout that have served well in DC. Now planning to convert to DCC, and reading the "Wiring for DCC" page, I have a dilemma. I don't desire to use tortoises or mechanically linked switches to power route the isolated points, frog, and closure rails. I want to keep the brakeman's job secure (I like to hand throw turnouts) and it would be too expensive to replace all of the turnouts. It appears that the only good choice would be to purchase a couple Tam Valley Hex DCC Frog Juicers as this would also solve the "points as contacts" issue. Am I on the right track? Thanks!

Re: Automated 'Block' Entry

Brian Eiland
 



On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 8:52 AM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
This Yahoo account(s) can be SO FRUSTRATING. Many a time it has asked me to log in (even while I thought I had it set up automatically)

So I go to log in and it gives me two choices, 1) add an account, or 2) log out of the account. Well how can I log out of the account if its not recognizing I am logged in?
The I choose the "add Account", and it ask for my email. It displays that email and I choose it. Then it tells me it does not recognize that email?
....round and round this freaking Yahoo site
Brian

PS: While I am venting can someone tell me WHY all crap at the bottom of all messages has to get REPEATED over and over again??

Re: Automated 'Block' Entry

AD
 


Is the wiring for dcc a separate yahoo group or is it part of the digitrax or jmri group.

If separate why did i start getting those emails without joining it

Tony




On Aug 25, 2017, at 10:00 AM, railandsail railandsail@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 



On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 8:52 AM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
This Yahoo account(s) can be SO FRUSTRATING. Many a time it has asked me to log in (even while I thought I had it set up automatically)

So I go to log in and it gives me two choices, 1) add an account, or 2) log out of the account. Well how can I log out of the account if its not recognizing I am logged in?
The I choose the "add Account", and it ask for my email. It displays that email and I choose it. Then it tells me it does not recognize that email?
....round and round this freaking Yahoo site
Brian

PS: While I am venting can someone tell me WHY all crap at the bottom of all messages has to get REPEATED over and over again??

Re: Automated 'Block' Entry

AD
 

Does anyone actually know wether you can or cannot automate trains on a layout without using the old technique to doing it for lionel trains which was to sense a train,usually by its weight, and throw relays which shout off the ac power to a block.

Can jmri do it via detection , such as bdl168 boards, and keeping tract of what engine is in what block so it can automatically send signals to decoders to control the following train from entering an occupied block.  Has anyone actually done it?  Is it doable?

Tony


On Aug 25, 2017, at 10:00 AM, railandsail railandsail@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 



On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 8:52 AM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
This Yahoo account(s) can be SO FRUSTRATING. Many a time it has asked me to log in (even while I thought I had it set up automatically)

So I go to log in and it gives me two choices, 1) add an account, or 2) log out of the account. Well how can I log out of the account if its not recognizing I am logged in?
The I choose the "add Account", and it ask for my email. It displays that email and I choose it. Then it tells me it does not recognize that email?
....round and round this freaking Yahoo site
Brian

PS: While I am venting can someone tell me WHY all crap at the bottom of all messages has to get REPEATED over and over again??

Re: Automated 'Block' Entry

Jan Boen
 

Hi Tony,

Sure it is perfectly possible to automate a complete lay-out using DCC and JMRI (and other protocols) using a combination of block detectors eventually combined with Railcom+ etc.
Start simple though and make sure you understand what you're trying to do.
Don't run before you can walk and you will get there.
Having some understanding about electricity and electronics with a base in computer software will help a lot.
Download some of the JMRI clinics you can find on-line.
Consider using e.g. RR-Cirkits kit and you can count on Dick Bronson to advise you when and if needed.

Best regards,

Jan

On 25/08/2017 16:34, ANTHONY DALILEO bklyns_baseball_club@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
 
Does anyone actually know wether you can or cannot automate trains on a layout without using the old technique to doing it for lionel trains which was to sense a train,usually by its weight, and throw relays which shout off the ac power to a block.

Can jmri do it via detection , such as bdl168 boards, and keeping tract of what engine is in what block so it can automatically send signals to decoders to control the following train from entering an occupied block.  Has anyone actually done it?  Is it doable?

Tony


On Aug 25, 2017, at 10:00 AM, railandsail railandsail@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 


On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 8:52 AM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
This Yahoo account(s) can be SO FRUSTRATING. Many a time it has asked me to log in (even while I thought I had it set up automatically)

So I go to log in and it gives me two choices, 1) add an account, or 2) log out of the account. Well how can I log out of the account if its not recognizing I am logged in?
The I choose the "add Account", and it ask for my email. It displays that email and I choose it. Then it tells me it does not recognize that email?
....round and round this freaking Yahoo site
Brian

PS: While I am venting can someone tell me WHY all crap at the bottom of all messages has to get REPEATED over and over again??


Re: Automated 'Block' Entry

AD
 

I am trying to understand what to do. I have read a bunch of stuff from jmri documentation but still have no understanding of how it will work or what to do. I am already connected via rockets interface and have tried the programming language. Someone must have programmed this but i have no idea where to find it. I have looked at everything available but still see no way to proceed.

What's railcom+ etc

Tony


On Aug 25, 2017, at 11:47 AM, Jan Boen jan.boen@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

Hi Tony,

Sure it is perfectly possible to automate a complete lay-out using DCC and JMRI (and other protocols) using a combination of block detectors eventually combined with Railcom+ etc.
Start simple though and make sure you understand what you're trying to do.
Don't run before you can walk and you will get there.
Having some understanding about electricity and electronics with a base in computer software will help a lot.
Download some of the JMRI clinics you can find on-line.
Consider using e.g. RR-Cirkits kit and you can count on Dick Bronson to advise you when and if needed.

Best regards,

Jan

On 25/08/2017 16:34, ANTHONY DALILEO bklyns_baseball_club@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
 
Does anyone actually know wether you can or cannot automate trains on a layout without using the old technique to doing it for lionel trains which was to sense a train,usually by its weight, and throw relays which shout off the ac power to a block.

Can jmri do it via detection , such as bdl168 boards, and keeping tract of what engine is in what block so it can automatically send signals to decoders to control the following train from entering an occupied block.  Has anyone actually done it?  Is it doable?

Tony


On Aug 25, 2017, at 10:00 AM, railandsail railandsail@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 


On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 8:52 AM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
This Yahoo account(s) can be SO FRUSTRATING. Many a time it has asked me to log in (even while I thought I had it set up automatically)

So I go to log in and it gives me two choices, 1) add an account, or 2) log out of the account. Well how can I log out of the account if its not recognizing I am logged in?
The I choose the "add Account", and it ask for my email. It displays that email and I choose it. Then it tells me it does not recognize that email?
....round and round this freaking Yahoo site
Brian

PS: While I am venting can someone tell me WHY all crap at the bottom of all messages has to get REPEATED over and over again??


SCALETRAINS alternate decoder installation

Ashton Scott
 

I'm not a fan of the Loksound 4.0's volume level so I opted to purchase a non-sound unit and install a Loksound Select with a secondary decoder for the marker lights. This has proven to be almost impossible. For one, I have to combine the common wire from both decoders (or do I).  I can get headlights, number boards and beacon, but they are all on the Loksound Decoder.  The secondary decoder, a TCS A6X won't put out any light.


Any suggestions.

Re: SCALETRAINS alternate decoder installation

dvollrath@...
 

Each decoder must be separately wired for the functions to work. Except for having the same track pick-up power connections there should be no wires or power sharing between the decoders. Connecting the commons of the decoders together is just asking for trouble.


DonV

 



---In WiringForDCC@..., <pcgumshoe@...> wrote :

I'm not a fan of the Loksound 4.0's volume level so I opted to purchase a non-sound unit and install a Loksound Select with a secondary decoder for the marker lights. This has proven to be almost impossible. For one, I have to combine the common wire from both decoders (or do I).  I can get headlights, number boards and beacon, but they are all on the Loksound Decoder.  The secondary decoder, a TCS A6X won't put out any light.


Any suggestions.

Re: Automated 'Block' Entry

Brian Eiland
 

This appears to be an interesting article, and well presented.
But its over my head, not being electrically inclined

https://www.jlcenterprises.net/pages/chapter-2-part-1


.


Re: Automated 'Block' Entry

Jan Boen
 

Hi Tony,

It's impossible to tell you exactly what to do as that is completely depending on your set-up.
It starts by understanding what you have and what you want to do and start with  the basics.
Control your turn-outs, get block detection up and running once that is working go to automating series of turnouts and look at automated braking etc.
The end state will be defining trains and routes and have them run automatically but it will take you time to get into the subjects.
Block detection is dependent on what you want to do so you must have a plan...
Alas what you're venturing into is pretty technical and requires understanding and a plan.
It's not rocket science but unless you understand what you're doing you will end in a swamp and you get disillusioned and will drop it.
If you find a magic short cut to get to great results I will gladly learn from you :-)

Railcom = http://www.dccwiki.com/Term:Railcom and http://www.esu.eu/en/support/white-papers/railcomplusr/

Good luck,


Jan

On 25/08/2017 17:58, ANTHONY DALILEO bklyns_baseball_club@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
 
I am trying to understand what to do. I have read a bunch of stuff from jmri documentation but still have no understanding of how it will work or what to do. I am already connected via rockets interface and have tried the programming language. Someone must have programmed this but i have no idea where to find it. I have looked at everything available but still see no way to proceed.

What's railcom+ etc

Tony


On Aug 25, 2017, at 11:47 AM, Jan Boen jan.boen@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

Hi Tony,

Sure it is perfectly possible to automate a complete lay-out using DCC and JMRI (and other protocols) using a combination of block detectors eventually combined with Railcom+ etc.
Start simple though and make sure you understand what you're trying to do.
Don't run before you can walk and you will get there.
Having some understanding about electricity and electronics with a base in computer software will help a lot.
Download some of the JMRI clinics you can find on-line.
Consider using e.g. RR-Cirkits kit and you can count on Dick Bronson to advise you when and if needed.

Best regards,

Jan

On 25/08/2017 16:34, ANTHONY DALILEO bklyns_baseball_club@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
 
Does anyone actually know wether you can or cannot automate trains on a layout without using the old technique to doing it for lionel trains which was to sense a train,usually by its weight, and throw relays which shout off the ac power to a block.

Can jmri do it via detection , such as bdl168 boards, and keeping tract of what engine is in what block so it can automatically send signals to decoders to control the following train from entering an occupied block.  Has anyone actually done it?  Is it doable?

Tony


On Aug 25, 2017, at 10:00 AM, railandsail railandsail@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 


On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 8:52 AM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
This Yahoo account(s) can be SO FRUSTRATING. Many a time it has asked me to log in (even while I thought I had it set up automatically)

So I go to log in and it gives me two choices, 1) add an account, or 2) log out of the account. Well how can I log out of the account if its not recognizing I am logged in?
The I choose the "add Account", and it ask for my email. It displays that email and I choose it. Then it tells me it does not recognize that email?
....round and round this freaking Yahoo site
Brian

PS: While I am venting can someone tell me WHY all crap at the bottom of all messages has to get REPEATED over and over again??



Re: SCALETRAINS alternate decoder installation

Richard Sutcliffe
 

To get both the decoders to operate off the same address you will have to consist them - usually basic (same address)
  

Re: Automated 'Block' Entry

Jan Boen
 

Hi,

This article goes (to) deep into detail.
For your model rail road it should be enough to e.g. understand that in a typical 2-rail digital system a block detection circuit comes in 2 basic flavors:
1- A diode circuit that allows detecting current consumption by a loco or car which results in a certain voltage drop.
This type is very commonly found in the market and has the advantage it will also work with (analogue) DC systems but has the disadvantage of having a voltage drop which may result in loco's running slower or more current being used to compensate for the voltage drop to keep the loco running at the same speed.
2- A Current Transformer (CT-coil) based solution which does not introduce a voltage drop but is somewhat more expensive because it comes with CT-coils and it only works for digital systems
How both systems work internally is less important.
In both cases you need electrically separated blocks and in one of the feeding wires you have to insert the block detection. So it goes in series with the tracks.

Read a bit about voltage, current and resistance and familiarize yourself with series and parallel circuits at a very basic level and understand that a typical DCC (i.e. digital) systems uses alternating (i.e. positive and negative) current/voltage to operate as opposed to classical analogue systems which typically use DC (direct current/voltage).

This web site makes good reading http://www.wiringfordcc.com/intro2dcc.htm

Good luck,


Jan

On 25/08/2017 23:39, railandsail railandsail@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:
 
This appears to be an interesting article, and well presented.
But its over my head, not being electrically inclined

https://www.jlcenterprises.net/pages/chapter-2-part-1


.



.

Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

Brad Ketchen <bketchen@...>
 

Tam Valley Frog juicers are expensive. Might as well buy new turnouts. Micro Engineering are the best for handthrowing as I do myself.. I've always had issues with Shinohara's (as I call them 'Shitohara's). 

Brad

On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 9:26 AM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Yes. As with all power routing types... Isolate the diverging frog exit rails at the end of the turnout by using insulated rail joiners, and add a Frog Juicer to supplement the power connection at the corrected polarity from the points.


DonV



---In WiringForDCC@..., <tmurray63034@...> wrote :

I have 13 remaining "non DCC friendly" Shinohara turnouts on my layout that have served well in DC. Now planning to convert to DCC, and reading the "Wiring for DCC" page, I have a dilemma. I don't desire to use tortoises or mechanically linked switches to power route the isolated points, frog, and closure rails. I want to keep the brakeman's job secure (I like to hand throw turnouts) and it would be too expensive to replace all of the turnouts. It appears that the only good choice would be to purchase a couple Tam Valley Hex DCC Frog Juicers as this would also solve the "points as contacts" issue.. Am I on the right track? Thanks!


Yet another Block Signaling System....?

Mark Cartwright
 

Here is a video on an N Scale Signal Block System which I purchased in it's entirety a few months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qUJcdL9Gko&feature=youtu.be


Just showed up on eBay one evening with a $300 Buy it Now Price.

There were already 30+ Watchers by the time I hit the button.

Yes, it came from Canada.

=====

Have I installed it yet?

No...

Well not exactly, I hooked it up once and am considering it on a Trolley Line on one of my layouts; a separate line actually, a sub-lauout.

====

Instead...

I have also purchased the making of an ESU ECoS German/European system 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZgBq2tso2A

There are actually many youtube videos on this kind of thinking...

None of them in American English or even Canadian for that matter.

There are also videos on such a subject in French, German, Italian and guys who seem to have Russian Accents. There may even be a Scandinavian in there as well; or was that Dutch?

In any regards...

I don't expect any help from my local American Train Stores here in America, even in California.

Further ....

Not saying I will end up this way...but I have tested it and...

Yes it works...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjPvvrBDMsw

Digitrax equipment works with the ECoS.

Yes, Digitrax Equipment does work with ESU and so on...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4dAubN32R8

Not that I really want to do this....

However...

Don't watch too many of these videos...or you may come off sounding like you just watched Monty Python... and in California...that can come off as if you are British dressed up like a woman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhcR1g09YxI

Oops! Isn't that Dr House?

:)) Mark


What ever you decide to do.....Just Please make it different 

>> if?

I ever can get out of my own way, and actually install a system and get it up and running....

Well, I literally have Bridges to Cross before that day happens.



Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

Craig Zeni
 

Or...use SPDT slide switches as both the power router and mechanical point throw...cheap as chips and reliable.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC

On Aug 26, 2017, at 8:26 AM, Brad Ketchen @bketchen [WiringForDCC] wrote:



Tam Valley Frog juicers are expensive. Might as well buy new turnouts. Micro Engineering are the best for handthrowing as I do myself.. I've always had issues with Shinohara's (as I call them 'Shitohara's).

Brad

On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 9:26 AM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Yes. As with all power routing types... Isolate the diverging frog exit rails at the end of the turnout by using insulated rail joiners, and add a Frog Juicer to supplement the power connection at the corrected polarity from the points.



DonV



---In WiringForDCC@..., <tmurray63034@...> wrote :

I have 13 remaining "non DCC friendly" Shinohara turnouts on my layout that have served well in DC. Now planning to convert to DCC, and reading the "Wiring for DCC" page, I have a dilemma. I don't desire to use tortoises or mechanically linked switches to power route the isolated points, frog, and closure rails. I want to keep the brakeman's job secure (I like to hand throw turnouts) and it would be too expensive to replace all of the turnouts. It appears that the only good choice would be to purchase a couple Tam Valley Hex DCC Frog Juicers as this would also solve the "points as contacts" issue.. Am I on the right track? Thanks!

Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

Thomas Murray
 

To me, the slide switches takes away from the scale appearance and $150 for (2) TV juicers vs $385 for new turnouts. Each Hex juicer covers (6) turnouts. (1) mono juicer for the remaining turnout.  Thanks for the input.



Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S7.

-------- Original message --------
From: "Brad Ketchen bketchen@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...>
Date: 8/26/17 7:26 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

 

Tam Valley Frog juicers are expensive. Might as well buy new turnouts. Micro Engineering are the best for handthrowing as I do myself.. I've always had issues with Shinohara's (as I call them 'Shitohara's). 

Brad

On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 9:26 AM, dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Yes. As with all power routing types... Isolate the diverging frog exit rails at the end of the turnout by using insulated rail joiners, and add a Frog Juicer to supplement the power connection at the corrected polarity from the points.


DonV



---In WiringForDCC@..., <tmurray63034@...> wrote :

I have 13 remaining "non DCC friendly" Shinohara turnouts on my layout that have served well in DC. Now planning to convert to DCC, and reading the "Wiring for DCC" page, I have a dilemma. I don't desire to use tortoises or mechanically linked switches to power route the isolated points, frog, and closure rails. I want to keep the brakeman's job secure (I like to hand throw turnouts) and it would be too expensive to replace all of the turnouts. It appears that the only good choice would be to purchase a couple Tam Valley Hex DCC Frog Juicers as this would also solve the "points as contacts" issue.. Am I on the right track? Thanks!


Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

Annette and Dante Fuligni
 

If your operation can use the turnouts as power-routing units, you will not need to use the Frog Juicers. For example, they can be used for stub-ended spurs or yard tracks. Frog juicers are for use on isolated (insulated), unpowered frogs that are too long for your locos that will lose power passing over unpowered frogs because they have short-wheel-base pick-ups. (Or you can instal decoders with keep-alive function in those locos.)

Dante

Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

Brian Eiland
 

 How about utilizing a double crossover Shinohara on a DCC layout,...any problems, fixes, etc.
i have one that I might like to use on my new layout plan
Brian



On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 11:33 PM, Dante Fuligni dfuligni2144@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

If your operation can use the turnouts as power-routing units, you will not need to use the Frog Juicers. For example, they can be used for stub-ended spurs or yard tracks. Frog juicers are for use on isolated (insulated), unpowered frogs that are too long for your locos that will lose power passing over unpowered frogs because they have short-wheel-base pick-ups. (Or you can instal decoders with keep-alive function in those locos.)

Dante


Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

dvollrath@...
 

Dante,

You are missing the 2nd half of the reason to use a Frog-Juicer... it supplements the often poor electrical connection of the point rail connections to power the frog and frog rails... Particularly useful when used with power routing turnouts. The momentary act of one of the turnout points touching one of the stock rails causes the Frog Juicer to flip to the proper polarity and supply reliable power to the points, frog, frog rails and a track stub if you chose to do so. Of course there are other ways to do it involving SPDT switches. And it will not fix the operator issue of running into a turnout with the points thrown in the wrong direction.


DonV



---In WiringForDCC@..., <dfuligni2144@...> wrote :

If your operation can use the turnouts as power-routing units, you will not need to use the Frog Juicers. For example, they can be used for stub-ended spurs or yard tracks. Frog juicers are for use on isolated (insulated), unpowered frogs that are too long for your locos that will lose power passing over unpowered frogs because they have short-wheel-base pick-ups. (Or you can instal decoders with keep-alive function in those locos.)

Dante

Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

David Klemm
 

My philosophy is also to not rely on the power routing of a turnout.  Over time the wipers will wear or dirt will get in there and impede contact and thus the current.  All the turnouts get a powered frog and our club uses the TAM Valley product on hundreds of turnouts.


David




From: WiringForDCC@... on behalf of dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 9:29 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts
 
 

Dante,

You are missing the 2nd half of the reason to use a Frog-Juicer... it supplements the often poor electrical connection of the point rail connections to power the frog and frog rails... Particularly useful when used with power routing turnouts. The momentary act of one of the turnout points touching one of the stock rails causes the Frog Juicer to flip to the proper polarity and supply reliable power to the points, frog, frog rails and a track stub if you chose to do so. Of course there are other ways to do it involving SPDT switches. And it will not fix the operator issue of running into a turnout with the points thrown in the wrong direction.


DonV



---In WiringForDCC@...,
If your operation can use the turnouts as power-routing units, you will not need to use the Frog Juicers. For example, they can be used for stub-ended spurs or yard tracks. Frog juicers are for use on isolated (insulated), unpowered frogs that are too long for your locos that will lose power passing over unpowered frogs because they have short-wheel-base pick-ups. (Or you can instal decoders with keep-alive function in those locos.)

Dante