Date   

Re: So many feeders for sectional track??

Verryl
 

Solder all the rail joiners except ones you want to leave for expansion and contraction due to heat or humidity. Solder every 3 to 5 feet of track, both rails.

My layout is a bit larger with 5,300 feet of code 83 flex track and hundreds of turnouts. We only soldered the rail joiners on curves, and no problems after 4 years with 25-35 operators on 7 hour sessions monthly. The layout is in Arizona in a climate controlled building, so the temperature and humidity vary little. We see little if any expansion/contraction.

We actually did not solder the feeders. They are spot welded with a jeweler's TIG spot welder every 5-6 feet. The 18 GA feeders are 8 to 14 inches max, up to 14 GA sub buses with 10 GA main buses. We have 15 -  5A boosters.

Verryl Fosnight
Wyoming Division
4,000 sq foot HO layout
http://wyodivision.org


Re: So many feeders for sectional track??

Vollrath, Don <don.vollrath@...>
 

The practical answer is hidden in the quality of your soldering skills and mechanical stress put on solder joints from misalignment and humidity/temperature changes of the layout. With sectional track I wouldn't go past 2 soldered rail joiners in either direction with the feeder drop in the middle section of track. (ie- 5 pieces of track less than 45 inches long) Other rail joiners connecting soldered track sections together to remain unsoldered to allow for some physical movement.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 9:49 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WiringForDCC] So many feeders for sectional track??

I have a small 4 x 6 layout that uses Atlas 83 sectional track. I want to solder a feeder to every piece of track so I don't have to worry about the joiners failing. How much soldering of track joiner joints can I get away with so I don't have to run so many feeders. I have a number of short pieces (3-4 inches and the longer at 9 inches).
------------------------------------
Posted by: Ryan Hulsey <ryenpreston@gmail.com>
------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.com
------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Re: How to find the booster common?

Vollrath, Don <don.vollrath@...>
 

What boosters are you using? NCE Power Pro command station and booster have the booster common connection at the case.

See also Mark Gurries website.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 10:33 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] How to find the booster common?

 



Hi,

For an upcoming event were looking for a solution to avoid boosters potentially pumping current into each other when a train crosses between booster districts.
So read all about the booster common (or booster ground).
Theory well understood but how to do this in reality.
None of the boosters I have available have a pin or connection point which is clearly marked as such.
Any practical guidance will be more than welcome.
As an electronics engineer I do understand schematics etc :-)

Any other solutions you see?
We've been thinking about some special electronics and we see some technical solutions if needed but alas they're pretty intrusive.

Thanks,


Jan

 





How to find the booster common?

Jan Boen
 

Hi,

For an upcoming event were looking for a solution to avoid boosters potentially pumping current into each other when a train crosses between booster districts.
So read all about the booster common (or booster ground).
Theory well understood but how to do this in reality.
None of the boosters I have available have a pin or connection point which is clearly marked as such.
Any practical guidance will be more than welcome.
As an electronics engineer I do understand schematics etc :-)

Any other solutions you see?
We've been thinking about some special electronics and we see some technical solutions if needed but alas they're pretty intrusive.

Thanks,


Jan



So many feeders for sectional track??

Ryan Hulsey <ryenpreston@...>
 

I have a small 4 x 6 layout that uses Atlas 83 sectional track. I want to solder a feeder to every piece of track so I don't have to worry about the joiners failing. How much soldering of track joiner joints can I get away with so I don't have to run so many feeders. I have a number of short pieces (3-4 inches and the longer at 9 inches).


Re: Insulating bus wire dropper feeds

Vollrath, Don <don.vollrath@...>
 

Try electrical tape or some of that liquid electrical tape stuff. I always stagger the soldered connection points and leave them bare.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 7:41 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Insulating bus wire dropper feeds

 

 

Hello group,

Question about insulation. I have attached a couple of pictures in the photos section showing some newly soldered connections of my droppers to my bus wires. The bus wires are 13 AWG. I tried splitting a heat shrink longitudionally and applying it but when I applied heat with the air gun it didn't hold and just twisted up. Does anyone have a way of insulating these connections or should I not bother as long as nothing else can touch the exposed fractions of an inch?

 

Paul Hamilton

Perth, Western Australia 


Insulating bus wire dropper feeds

Digitrax Dad (Lancashire Fusilier)
 

Hello group,

Question about insulation. I have attached a couple of pictures in the photos section showing some newly soldered connections of my droppers to my bus wires. The bus wires are 13 AWG. I tried splitting a heat shrink longitudionally and applying it but when I applied heat with the air gun it didn't hold and just twisted up. Does anyone have a way of insulating these connections or should I not bother as long as nothing else can touch the exposed fractions of an inch?


Paul Hamilton

Perth, Western Australia 


Re: Newbie

Puckdropper
 

I figure it's easier to wire around an insulated joiner than it is to install one later.  If you're dropping feeders from every piece of rail, it's done automatically. 

I like to drop feeders one either side of the rail joint, so I only have to strip the bus once.  A decent stripper will come in handy, the spring jaw style can be very useful.  Beware cheap ones!  (This results in 2 feeders to every rail, but it doesn't hurt anything and only costs a little more time.)

This makes the job so much easier:
https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/electrical-tools/electrical-hand-tools/ideal-stripmaster-reg-10-22-awg-wire-stripper/p-1444433960694-c-6455.htm?tid=27003190580153861


Puckdropper


---In wiringfordcc@..., <Goatfisher2@...> wrote :

<<I have some very general questions that I would like some input on:>>

<<4. Should I consider splitting the layout with insulated joiners?>>

Breaking the layout down into logical electrical sections can have benefits,
including but not limited to:

a) Limiting the impact of a short circuit to a localized area, ie, a town or
yard, so that only the immediate operator is affected while other areas of
the layout continue on un-interrupted (note however, that this requires
circuit breakers to shut off the power to the affected area of the layout).
On a small, single operator layout this is not an issue, but does become a
problem as layout size and the number of operators increases.

b) Decreasing the amount of track and wiring that needs to be checked out
and debugged when a short occurs.


I cut my teeth on Cab Control wiring far too many years ago. My first
inclination when designing wiring for a DCC layout is to gap track as if I
was still installing a Cab Control system, with each "block" having its own
wiring. In retrospect, that's quite a bit of over kill. For my next
layout, I'll probably put the yard ladder track on one circuit breaker, and
all the body tracks on a second, with a single track bus running the length
of the yard serving all the body tracks. On a larger layout with both
eastward and westward yards, each ladder and lead would be one breaker with
the east and west body tracks each being on a separate breaker.


Re: Newbie

Steve Haas
 

<<I have some very general questions that I would like some input on:>>

Hi Tom,


<<1. What gauge wire should I use for the wiring bus? (Keep in mind that
I will be enlarging the pike over time)>>

Recommended wire size for wiring buses is a function of bus length, not
layout size, though there is an indirect relationship (larger layouts
usually result in longer bus lengths).


See WWW.wiringfordcc.com and https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/
For background information. Your DCC system manufacturer should also have
recommendations for bus wire size based on length of runs, too. While
visiting those sites, also note the recommendations for twisting bus wires
(3-5 turns/foot), and R/C terminators.

Personally, I use 12 AWG stranded for main buses, occasionally 14 AWG for
sub buses.

<<2. Should I use solid or stranded wire?>>

There's no electrical/electronic benefit one way or the other. For buses, I
prefer stranded for of use and flexibility. Others prefer solid for their
own reasons, among them, ease of stripping the bus in order to solder
feeders.

I use solid for feeders.

<<3. Gauge for feeder wires?>>

Opinions vary on this; some folks use 20 AWG, I use 24 - 26 for its smaller
size. The wiring for DCC web site has tables that recommend feeder wire
size based on feeder length - one can go quite small on size as long as the
length is short. I should note that I attach a feeder to every piece of
rail. I also (yes it's a bit belt and suspenders<Grin>) solder a loop of
wire from one section of track to the next, bypassing the rail joiner.

Perhaps more important than feeder size is attaching a feeder to each and
every piece of rail.

Rail joiners work well to provide mechanical connections, but soldered or
not, the long term potential for electrical failure is high. Better to
expect them to keep track in alignment, letting them shift back and forth as
needed to adapt to environmental changes in the layout room.

<<4. Should I consider splitting the layout with insulated joiners?>>

Breaking the layout down into logical electrical sections can have benefits,
including but not limited to:

a) Limiting the impact of a short circuit to a localized area, ie, a town or
yard, so that only the immediate operator is affected while other areas of
the layout continue on un-interrupted (note however, that this requires
circuit breakers to shut off the power to the affected area of the layout).
On a small, single operator layout this is not an issue, but does become a
problem as layout size and the number of operators increases.

b) Decreasing the amount of track and wiring that needs to be checked out
and debugged when a short occurs.


I cut my teeth on Cab Control wiring far too many years ago. My first
inclination when designing wiring for a DCC layout is to gap track as if I
was still installing a Cab Control system, with each "block" having its own
wiring. In retrospect, that's quite a bit of over kill. For my next
layout, I'll probably put the yard ladder track on one circuit breaker, and
all the body tracks on a second, with a single track bus running the length
of the yard serving all the body tracks. On a larger layout with both
eastward and westward yards, each ladder and lead would be one breaker with
the east and west body tracks each being on a separate breaker.

<<5. How is the best way to connect the feeders to the bus? I have seen
the 'suitcase' connectors but it there anything better, neater? What about
soldering?>>


Suitcase connectors, soldering, crimp connections all have their place, and
all non is better or worse that the other. Use the best tools you can
afford for the type of connection you are using, and master the tools and
techniques appropriate for the products you are using. Once you've picked
your connector(s) of choice, be consistent in your use - just don't use "any
old thing"(tm) because you ran out of the right tools and supplies; odds are
that if you do, you'll never fix it until you have to crawl under the layout
during an Ops session to make an emergency repair, only to find out you've
got the wrong tools and supplies!


<<6. Any other considerations?>>


One thing I would avoid is the practice of running buses through purpose
drilled holes in the bench work. Once you've run a bus through those holes
and attached feeders to them it becomes much more difficult to reroute
wiring in support of changes on the layout.


Food for thought.


Best regards,

Steve


Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA


Re: Newbie

dvollrath@...
 

Tom, Read through the beginners guide on the wiringfordcc.com website.

Sounds like a relatively small and probably one man operation layout. Use #18 for DCC mains and #22 for track drops as these are more than adequate for N scale of this size. solid wire is easier to solder to rails. Soldering always works for other connections too but you might find suitcase connectors of the proper size easier to work with under the layout. Train occupancy detection blocks and signaling seems somewhat out of reach on a layout of this size. I wouldn't bother with insulated joiners and separate isolated power districts unless there is a reversing section or a need to isolate sidings with a power cut-off switch. But be sure to look carefully at your turnouts to determine if they need isolating joiners at frog rails to avoid causing shorts when thrown the 'wrong' way. Use DCC friendly switches and/or add frog juicers to avoid/assist carrying track power through power routing turnout points.


If the layout is a walk-around arrangement with access on all sides be sure to provide convenient plug in places for your throttle on each side or go for radio/wireless.


DonV


Re: Newbie

David Klemm
 

Tom,


I think most of these questions are asked and answered on the wiringfordcc website.  Have you read it?


David




From: WiringForDCC@... on behalf of Tom Anderson tanderson@... [WiringForDCC]
Sent: Monday, November 7, 2016 7:15 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Newbie
 
 

Hi all,

After a 15 year absence, I am diving back in to this great hobby. Needless to say, a few things have changed particularly with the evolution of DCC.

So I am starting with a small N gauge layout - basically a 4x4 size with a 2x2 extension.

I have just purchased a new Digitrax system and am ready to get started.

I have some very general questions that I would like some input on:

1. What gauge wire should I use for the wiring bus? (Keep in mind that I will enlarging the pike over time)
2. Should I use solid or stranded wire?
3. Gauge for feeder wires?
4. Should I consider splitting the layout with insulated joiners?
5. How is the best way to connect the feeders to the bus? I have seen the 'suitcase' connectors but it there anything better, neater? What about soldering?
6. Any other considerations?

Any input/advice would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks!

Tom Anderson


Business Information Systems, Inc.
P.O. Box 160396
Boiling Springs, SC 29316

(864) 599-1266
--
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Newbie

Tom Anderson
 

Hi all,

 

          After a 15 year absence, I am diving back in to this great hobby. Needless to say, a few things have changed particularly with the evolution of DCC.

 

          So I am starting with a small N gauge layout – basically a 4x4 size with a 2x2 extension.

 

          I have just purchased a new Digitrax system and am ready to get started.

 

          I have some very general questions that I would like some input on:

 

1.    What gauge wire should I use for the wiring bus? (Keep in mind that I will enlarging the pike over time)

2.    Should I use solid or stranded wire?

3.    Gauge for feeder wires?

4.    Should I consider splitting the layout with insulated joiners?

5.    How is the best way to connect the feeders to the bus? I have seen the ‘suitcase’ connectors but it there anything better, neater? What about soldering?

6.    Any other considerations?

 

Any input/advice would be greatly appreciated!!

 

Thanks!

 

Tom Anderson



Newbie

Tom Anderson
 

Hi all,

After a 15 year absence, I am diving back in to this great hobby. Needless to say, a few things have changed particularly with the evolution of DCC.

So I am starting with a small N gauge layout - basically a 4x4 size with a 2x2 extension.

I have just purchased a new Digitrax system and am ready to get started.

I have some very general questions that I would like some input on:

1. What gauge wire should I use for the wiring bus? (Keep in mind that I will enlarging the pike over time)
2. Should I use solid or stranded wire?
3. Gauge for feeder wires?
4. Should I consider splitting the layout with insulated joiners?
5. How is the best way to connect the feeders to the bus? I have seen the 'suitcase' connectors but it there anything better, neater? What about soldering?
6. Any other considerations?

Any input/advice would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks!

Tom Anderson


Business Information Systems, Inc.
P.O. Box 160396
Boiling Springs, SC 29316

(864) 599-1266
--
ExchangeDefender Message Security: Click below to verify authenticity
https://admin.exchangedefender.com/verify.php?id=uA81GDk4024242&from=tanderson@bisinc.info


Re: Tortouise switch machines and how I made it easier to install

Digitrax Dad (Lancashire Fusilier)
 

Hello group, I seem to have had a seemless run with my tortoise installs. I pre lay all the track with a 1/4" hole drilled through 1/2" baseboard and install per the following video. I love seeing what everyone else does. By the way I installed ten tortoise motors just this week! Hope this is useful to someone.


Paul Hamilton
Perth, Western Australia 


Re: Can you power the frog on a turnout that controls an autoreverser

John Sawaska
 

Dale i too am using the Hare to control the turn out and frog for my reverse loop, actually the loop has two separate entries, the loop is controlled by a PSX-AR. It has worked flawlessly for nearly 15 years.
John Sawaska, Wisconsin Rapids, Wi


Installing Soundtraxx Soundcar Decoder

trains@...
 

Greetings,

First time inquiry. Has anyone had experience installing the Soundcar decoder in a coal hopper? My cars are 3 & 4 hopper units.  I have installed several of the decoders in boxcars, which is simple. Placement of the decoder is not my concern. One concern is where to mount the speaker? I realize it should go in the bottom, but how and where. The other concern is how to wire the pick-up wheels. I know I can drill through the screw hole, and secure the trucks with bolts into the car, but their location, and the slant to the hopper, doesn't give you much length to the bolt.

Thanks for any help. I simply love my Soundcar decoders.

Ted



Re: Can you power the frog on a turnout that controls an autoreverser

Dale Gloer
 

Ed,

I'm not sure what you are using for an autoreverser or how you plan to use it to control the Tortoise but I thought I would share my experience .  At our club we are using a DCC Specialties Hare to automatically change the Tortoise position.  The Hare uses short detection sections for control and properly routes frog power as well as control the Tortoise. In out installation it controls entry to a reversing loop but is independent of the autoreverser for the loop.  It has been a very successful installation for us and is easy to implement.  In addition it plug directly onto the Tortoise machine.  There are a couple of versions depending on whether you want feedback from the Hare for switch position etc.

I have no commercial interest in these devices, just a satisfied user.

Dale Gloer


Re: Can you power the frog on a turnout that controls an autoreverser

Vollrath, Don <don.vollrath@...>
 

Rob, see my answer to Ed. Look up the links I put in there.

DonV

On Nov 3, 2016, at 8:16 PM, roblmclear@yahoo.com<mailto:roblmclear@yahoo.com> [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:



I am having a similar problem with a wye and a Tortoise and auto reverser, is a diagram available as to how you should wire the auto reverser to control the tortoise.

Rob McLear.


Re: Can you power the frog on a turnout that controls an autoreverser

roblmclear@...
 

I am having a similar problem with a wye and a Tortoise and auto reverser, is a diagram available as to how you should wire the auto reverser to control the tortoise.

Rob McLear.


Re: Can you power the frog on a turnout that controls an autoreverser

Vollrath, Don <don.vollrath@...>
 

Ed,

For automatic operation it should be the other way around in that the auto-reverser should control the Tortoise. Then you simply need to wire up an internal SPDT switch of the tortoise to power the frog from the proper track rail as selected by the path position of the throw bar. How to control the Tortoise motor or somehow trigger it to change the throw bar position in time as needed to prevent a derailment is the better question.

 

But Yes… If you are using an auto-reverser connection to somehow control the Tortoise, you may need to move the location of the gaps needed to make the auto-reverser function further away from the turnout… depending how fast your trains will run. Also be aware that by definition the ‘frog’ is a relatively small object of the middle of the turnout. Some power routing electro-frog type turnouts run the electrical service tied to the frog and frog exit rails all the way to the end of the turnout. This can be problematic as the sliding switch contacts inside the Tortoise are not intended to carry the pulse of current necessary to trigger the A-R unit and the rails can become dead during movement of the throw bar. In that case you need to either make the turnout DCC friendly by isolating the frog, etc. or somehow establish a fixed polarity zone approaching the turnout that triggers the A-R unit and causes the Tortoise to start flipping the throw bar to suit… before any power pick-up trucks will reach turnout rails.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 3:39 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Can you power the frog on a turnout that controls an autoreverser

 



How does one power the frog on a turnout that controls an autoreverser?  I am using tortoise switches and controlling the frog using the tortoise internal contacts. It appears that I must place the gaps well downstream of the return leg (prior to re-entering the turnout) in order to have the autoreverser trip before any of the train (let's say I have a lighted caboose) reaches the frog.  Is this correct?  If I cannot gap it well enough in advance, it seems I should go with an unpowered frog...

Ed Robinson

 




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