Date   

Re: Can you power the frog on a turnout that controls an autoreverser

John Sawaska
 

Dale i too am using the Hare to control the turn out and frog for my reverse loop, actually the loop has two separate entries, the loop is controlled by a PSX-AR. It has worked flawlessly for nearly 15 years.
John Sawaska, Wisconsin Rapids, Wi


Installing Soundtraxx Soundcar Decoder

trains@...
 

Greetings,

First time inquiry. Has anyone had experience installing the Soundcar decoder in a coal hopper? My cars are 3 & 4 hopper units.  I have installed several of the decoders in boxcars, which is simple. Placement of the decoder is not my concern. One concern is where to mount the speaker? I realize it should go in the bottom, but how and where. The other concern is how to wire the pick-up wheels. I know I can drill through the screw hole, and secure the trucks with bolts into the car, but their location, and the slant to the hopper, doesn't give you much length to the bolt.

Thanks for any help. I simply love my Soundcar decoders.

Ted



Re: Can you power the frog on a turnout that controls an autoreverser

Dale Gloer
 

Ed,

I'm not sure what you are using for an autoreverser or how you plan to use it to control the Tortoise but I thought I would share my experience .  At our club we are using a DCC Specialties Hare to automatically change the Tortoise position.  The Hare uses short detection sections for control and properly routes frog power as well as control the Tortoise. In out installation it controls entry to a reversing loop but is independent of the autoreverser for the loop.  It has been a very successful installation for us and is easy to implement.  In addition it plug directly onto the Tortoise machine.  There are a couple of versions depending on whether you want feedback from the Hare for switch position etc.

I have no commercial interest in these devices, just a satisfied user.

Dale Gloer


Re: Can you power the frog on a turnout that controls an autoreverser

Vollrath, Don <don.vollrath@...>
 

Rob, see my answer to Ed. Look up the links I put in there.

DonV

On Nov 3, 2016, at 8:16 PM, roblmclear@yahoo.com<mailto:roblmclear@yahoo.com> [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:



I am having a similar problem with a wye and a Tortoise and auto reverser, is a diagram available as to how you should wire the auto reverser to control the tortoise.

Rob McLear.


Re: Can you power the frog on a turnout that controls an autoreverser

roblmclear@...
 

I am having a similar problem with a wye and a Tortoise and auto reverser, is a diagram available as to how you should wire the auto reverser to control the tortoise.

Rob McLear.


Re: Can you power the frog on a turnout that controls an autoreverser

Vollrath, Don <don.vollrath@...>
 

Ed,

For automatic operation it should be the other way around in that the auto-reverser should control the Tortoise. Then you simply need to wire up an internal SPDT switch of the tortoise to power the frog from the proper track rail as selected by the path position of the throw bar. How to control the Tortoise motor or somehow trigger it to change the throw bar position in time as needed to prevent a derailment is the better question.

 

But Yes… If you are using an auto-reverser connection to somehow control the Tortoise, you may need to move the location of the gaps needed to make the auto-reverser function further away from the turnout… depending how fast your trains will run. Also be aware that by definition the ‘frog’ is a relatively small object of the middle of the turnout. Some power routing electro-frog type turnouts run the electrical service tied to the frog and frog exit rails all the way to the end of the turnout. This can be problematic as the sliding switch contacts inside the Tortoise are not intended to carry the pulse of current necessary to trigger the A-R unit and the rails can become dead during movement of the throw bar. In that case you need to either make the turnout DCC friendly by isolating the frog, etc. or somehow establish a fixed polarity zone approaching the turnout that triggers the A-R unit and causes the Tortoise to start flipping the throw bar to suit… before any power pick-up trucks will reach turnout rails.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 3:39 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Can you power the frog on a turnout that controls an autoreverser

 



How does one power the frog on a turnout that controls an autoreverser?  I am using tortoise switches and controlling the frog using the tortoise internal contacts. It appears that I must place the gaps well downstream of the return leg (prior to re-entering the turnout) in order to have the autoreverser trip before any of the train (let's say I have a lighted caboose) reaches the frog.  Is this correct?  If I cannot gap it well enough in advance, it seems I should go with an unpowered frog...

Ed Robinson

 





Can you power the frog on a turnout that controls an autoreverser

Ed
 

How does one power the frog on a turnout that controls an autoreverser?  I am using tortoise switches and controlling the frog using the tortoise internal contacts. It appears that I must place the gaps well downstream of the return leg (prior to re-entering the turnout) in order to have the autoreverser trip before any of the train (let's say I have a lighted caboose) reaches the frog.  Is this correct?  If I cannot gap it well enough in advance, it seems I should go with an unpowered frog...

Ed Robinson



Wiring a Digitrax BDL168 video

Digitrax Dad (Lancashire Fusilier)
 

Hello group, I am sharing a video I did for a buddy wiring up a BDL168 block detector using bootlace crimps and terminal strips on a DCC install in case anyone is interested. Also I wired up a CML SIGM20 signal control board using ribbon cable and an IDC connector for a DCC control drawer. Hope some one finds it useful.

https://youtu.be/ei--8gl1U8U

https://youtu.be/C6cVF6GEVpo

Cheers,


Paul Hamilton

Perth, Western Australia 


Re: WIRING TWO LEDS FOR INDICATION

dvollrath@...
 

Good call, Ed. Most diode testers / VOMs don't put out enough voltage to light up non-Red LEDs.


In the circuit you show the two common cathode R/G LED sets, each with protective diodes to accommodate reversing current flow to determine which color will light up. You have wired them in series with the tortoise motor to control and limit current. However you have wired the two LED sets in anti-parallel to yield Red on one circuit and Green in the other, and reversing their colors when voltage to the Tortoise is reversed. However, the voltage drop to illuminate the Green LED cells is greater than that of the Red. So in one case the Red LED plus the diode across its Green counterpart in the same package is conducting current with a certain combined voltage drop leaving less than desired voltage for an equal amount of current to flow through the other parallel wired set which has 1 diode plus a Green LED. Hence, the Green LEDs will have weaker current flow and may not even light up at all. [LEDs in parallel will not necessarily share current.] Yes, adding an experimental  low ohms resistor in series with the Red LED lead may resolve the brightness issue.


Additional ways to improve the usefulness:

1. You could try reconnecting the two LED sets, with their diodes, in series but opposite in polarity with each other and the Tortoise motor. But be aware that the Tortoise motor will slow down.

2. .You could use the LED connection of #1 but use an additional 1K resistor in series with the LEDs, etc. and wire that string in parallel with the Tortoise motor.

3. You could also rewire to connect each one of the LED sets separately, with its own 1K current limiting resistor in series, in parallel with the Tortoise motor.


DonV


 


Re: WIRING TWO LEDS FOR INDICATION

Ed
 

Don,

OK, I figured out the issue - the voltage from the diode tester on the multimeter was not enough to drive the green led when hooked up in my multi-LED setup.  When I used 12vdc it works fine.  The red LED is brighter but I can adjust that with a resistor in the red leg but that is adding a complication I am not ready to take on.  By the way, I have uploaded a picture of the circuit I am using in the files section entitled "Tortoise Indication".

Ed Robinson


New file uploaded to WiringForDCC

WiringForDCC@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the WiringForDCC
group.


File : /Tortoise Indication.jpg
Uploaded by : esmileyrob <lehighman@gmail.com>
Description : Bi-color LEDs for turnout indication


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/WiringForDCC/files/Tortoise%20Indication.jpg


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398


Regards,


esmileyrob <lehighman@gmail.com>


Re: WIRING TWO LEDS FOR INDICATION

dvollrath@...
 

Ed, there is  way to put the LEDs and protective diodes in a series string all in series with the Tortoise motor, but the combined voltage drop might limit the Tortoise motor speed way too much. Take a look in the files section for a file called 3 wire LEDs to see how to hook 'em up in parallel across the tortoise motor. The second set of the LEDs (not shown) with its own resistor should be connected opposite in polarity as the first to get one signal showing Green while the other signal shows Red. If both signals show the same color, you have one of them connected backwards.


DonV


Re: WIRING TWO LEDS FOR INDICATION

Ed
 

Thanks Don.  I am using these in conjunction with a Tortoise to provide panel indication. I have used this method with success before but I used 5mm LEDs in the previous application. I thought about the difference in voltage drops and will try your solution.  I will report back.

Ed Robinson


Re: WIRING TWO LEDS FOR INDICATION

dvollrath@...
 

From your description, Ed I'm not sure what you did with the still 3-leaded device other than add a diode in anti-parallel with each Red and Green LED....Or how you are connecting what voltage to the sets... Or limiting current through the LEDs. If you ended up connecting the two sets directly in parallel the Red LED has a lower voltage drop than the Green LED, preventing the Green LEDs from lighting up. One way to fix that is to use a separate current limiting resistor at the cathode for each R/G LED, then connect the anode of a Red and Green LED from each set together and the other end of the current limiting resistors together. Now current will pass through both a Red and Green LED with the difference in voltage drops taken up by the resistors. You should not need the extra diodes if you are energizing the signal lights from an on/off switched DC source, but keep them in if you power source is DCC or other AC voltage. There is no way to connect the 3-leaded R/G parts in series to do what you want.


DonV


WIRING TWO LEDS FOR INDICATION

Ed
 

Need some help here. I am trying to wire a pair of 2mm red/green, 3 lead, common cathode LEDs together to indicate turnout position.  To prepare the LED sets,  I have soldered the anode of two 1N4148 diodes to the common cathode and the cathode of each diode to the anodes on each side of the LED.  I then checked these assemblies out using the diode test function of my multimeter and the green lights when the polarity is one way and the red when the polarity is the other way.  I then take 2 of these LED sets and solder them together so that the polarity of one set is the opposite of the other.  In this way, I should get the green of one to light when the red of the other lights and vice versa.  The problem is that only the red lights up on each LED.  When I check each individual LED set, the green lights one way and the red the other just as intended but when assembled, only the red lights. What am I doing wrong here?

Ed Robinson



Re: Power for DCC Accessories

Mark Gurries
 

Unless the manufacture of the DCC accessory says the product will work on DC, the answer is NO.

DCC is two things.  Command/Control and Power on the same pair of wires.

If you wish to control an accessory with DCC commands, it must be connected to a DCC bus.



On Oct 21, 2016, at 7:01 AM, Gary Chudzinski chudgr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



Can most all of the DCC accessories, stationary decoders, reversers, sensors, etc., operate from a DC power source or must DCC booster power be used? I'm not referring to control signals, but just the power needed for the accessories to function. The reason for this question is that of providing a DC Bus around a newly developing layout, or, will the forthcoming LCC system suffice for accessory power? And, how far away from production is that item?

Thanks,
Gary Chudzinski



Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com




Re: power for accessories,

Glenn
 

In my youth I ran a 4-wire buss around the layout for accessories. Three wires were a white 18ga stranded wire the fourth was a heavier automotive wire. I flagged the three wires with colored tape where they crosses a joist to tell them apart. Those wires carried 18VAC, 12VDC, and 6VDC for different accessories. The automotive wire was the ground for all three voltages. You could use 2-wire with ground since most accessories now use just 12V.

Today, with a bigger budget, I would use 3-wire w/ground household wire and strip the wires out of the casing. This is the wire used when you have two switches controlling a single lamp.You will have black, white, red and green wires. Its cheaper to buy the wire this way than to purchase the wires individually.

Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: "dale.gloer@... [WiringForDCC]"
Sent: Oct 21, 2016 10:24 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: power for accessories,



Don,

it is better to run your accessories from a power swource separate from your DCC track power. 

I recommend running a DC power bus capable of providing several amps around your layout.  12 volt switching power supplies capable of many amps output are relatively inexpensive.  Once you have the 12 volt bus available you will be surprised at how many things you want to power, building lights, signs, etc.  Use a heavy enough gauge of wire that can support the current capacity of your power supply.  Also, some DCC accessory devices require that they be powered separately from other things so consider running a 120 volt circuit around your layout as well to provide convenient places to plug in standalone power units such as wall warts.

Dale Gloer


Re: Power for DCC Accessories

Glenn
 

Gary,

It depends on the DCC accessory itself or the accessory decoder. Some require accessories have a separate power source and use track signal for control only, while other will use just the DCC power and signal from the track. I have a switch decoder that requires a separate 16vac source to throw twin-coil switch machines. While Bachmann EZ remote track switches use track power.

However most auto reversers run solely on track power.

Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: "Gary Chudzinski chudgr@... [WiringForDCC]"
Sent: Oct 21, 2016 10:01 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Power for DCC Accessories



Can most all of the DCC accessories, stationary decoders, reversers, sensors, etc., operate from a DC power source or must DCC booster power be used? I'm not referring to control signals, but just the power needed for the accessories to function. The reason for this question is that of providing a DC Bus around a newly developing layout, or, will the forthcoming LCC system suffice for accessory power? And, how far away from production is that item?

Thanks,
Gary Chudzinski


Re: power for accessories,

Dale Gloer
 

Don,

it is better to run your accessories from a power swource separate from your DCC track power. 

I recommend running a DC power bus capable of providing several amps around your layout.  12 volt switching power supplies capable of many amps output are relatively inexpensive.  Once you have the 12 volt bus available you will be surprised at how many things you want to power, building lights, signs, etc.  Use a heavy enough gauge of wire that can support the current capacity of your power supply.  Also, some DCC accessory devices require that they be powered separately from other things so consider running a 120 volt circuit around your layout as well to provide convenient places to plug in standalone power units such as wall warts.

Dale Gloer


Power for DCC Accessories

Gary Chudzinski
 

Can most all of the DCC accessories, stationary decoders, reversers, sensors, etc., operate from a DC power source or must DCC booster power be used? I'm not referring to control signals, but just the power needed for the accessories to function. The reason for this question is that of providing a DC Bus around a newly developing layout, or, will the forthcoming LCC system suffice for accessory power? And, how far away from production is that item?

Thanks,
Gary Chudzinski

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