Date   

Re: DETECTION BLOCKS

Glenn
 

I would suggest getting a book on DC (analog) wiring and follow the directions for two-rail wiring, not common rail, and cutting gaps in both rails where you want a block to end. You will need a detector for each block.

 

There is no set of rules for block length.

 

Glenn

 


From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 21:58
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] DETECTION BLOCKS

 




I am building a new layout using DCC and want to install signals.  I understand that this requires I set up a detection block(s) for each signal.  Blocks are also set up to distribute power throughout the layout or to add reversing sections. My question involves my confusion regarding how each of these blocks fits together.  I isolate power blocks by cutting each rail going into and out of the block – a total of 4 cuts per block.  I feed power to the block through feeder wires connected to both rails about every 3 feet.  What cuts do I make to set up a detection block? As best I can tell, I only need to isolate one rail for each detection block with a cut on either end and run the power lead to that rail thru the detection circuit with the other rail being powered by the normal track feeder.  Is this correct? I also need to determine the location and length of each detection block – is there a good reference to read to help me there?

 

Ed Robinson

 



Re: Use of auto reversers

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Jim,
Auto-reversers are needed only when the train or loco can somehow be turned around to still run 'forward' but in the other direction on the same track.
Your description of a 'single track continuous loop' doesn't seem to do that... until you start describing multiple points of cross-overs between mainline tracks.
If you squeeze a simple oval into a folded dog-bone shape with parallel mainline tracks running to and from the loops at the ends, and then expect to have crossovers between the mainline tracks... then you have a reversing section issue.
Take a look at http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#a43 and scroll downward to read about the possibilities.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 9:01 AM
To: wiringfordcc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Use of auto reversers

As you will see from this post, I'm new to DCC. I have a question regarding using a single track continuous loop.

I will have a classification yard that will be entered by trains moving along the track in two locations when passing the yard . Does this create a need for an auto reverser? If so where should it be placed?

Also since there will be numerous places where the track will cross (such as at industry sidings) should auto reversers be used in these locations?


------------------------------------
Posted by: Jim Rizzolo <jimrizzolo@yahoo.com>
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http://www.WiringForDCC.com
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Yahoo Groups Links


Re: Use of auto reversers

David Klemm
 

Jim,

The best way I determine the need for an auto reverser is to draw my track plan with 2 different colors for the rails. So for example I use red and black and then I look for spots where where black and red intersect. 

BTW, no one here will be able to answer you just based on your words. A diagram will be a must. 

David Klemm
6s Plus

_____________________________

From: Jim Rizzolo jimrizzolo@... [WiringForDCC] <wiringfordcc@...>
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 11:50
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Use of auto reversers
To: <wiringfordcc@...>


 

As you will see from this post, I'm new to DCC. I have a question regarding using a single track continuous loop.

I will have a classification yard that will be entered by trains moving along the track in two locations when passing the yard . Does this create a need for an auto reverser? If so where should it be placed?

Also since there will be numerous places where the track will cross (such as at industry sidings) should auto reversers be used in these locations?




Use of auto reversers

Jim Rizzolo <jimrizzolo@...>
 

As you will see from this post, I'm new to DCC. I have a question regarding using a single track continuous loop.

I will have a classification yard that will be entered by trains moving along the track in two locations when passing the yard . Does this create a need for an auto reverser? If so where should it be placed?

Also since there will be numerous places where the track will cross (such as at industry sidings) should auto reversers be used in these locations?


Re: DETECTION BLOCKS

Mark Gurries
 


On Jun 27, 2016, at 6:57 PM, lehighman@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



I am building a new layout using DCC and want to install signals.  I understand that this requires I set up a detection block(s) for each signal.  Blocks are also set up to distribute power throughout the layout or to add reversing sections. My question involves my confusion regarding how each of these blocks fits together.  

Electrical blocks do not exist in the prototype and are use to contain shorts.  The ultimate length limits  are defined by the booster distance coverage.   Within a given booster district, these blocks are created by the use of DCC circuit breakers or some device used to disconnect track power.  The Power District tracks are defined by functional working areas (Yards, Brand Lines, Staging) or key tracks like main line versus industrial sidings.  Think of what people will be doing and how to prevent what other people are doing from electrically short circuit protection point of view.   A well design power district plan will allow a lot of operators to remain operating trains despite a given engineer dealing with a derailment.

Signal blocks are defined by "control points" which typically defined by turnouts that control main line train flow (passing siding or interlocking).  

Between control points on the main line, detection blocks  are spaced apart so there is ample notification for given trains about other trains so they can stop.  Everything is defined by an operational safety point of view which has nothing to do with electrical blocks..   For model railroad purposes, it simply becomes the length of the longest train length you wish to model on you layout. 

Example:  Simple loop with 3 signal aspects.   If you train length is 12Feet long, you will need 4 signal blocks which means you need 48 Feet of loop track to always allow the train to see a green signal ahead of it.   The block are as follows:  

1) The block the trains is in
2) Red Block behind the train protecting the train from behind
3) Yellow Block also protecting you from the train from behind.
4) The Green Block ahead of you.

There is a more to this especially if you want to follow some prototype implementation of signalling.

ABS signalling only protects you from trains BEHIND you going in the same direction.  Does nothing to help you SAFELY see what is ahead in terms of trains but would indicate if you were taking the main line or passing siding.  Dispatcher still authorizes all movement via train orders.

APB is bidirectional ABS that does allow you to see both train AHEAD AND BEHIND.  Dispatcher still authorizes all moments via train orders.

CTC is dispatcher controlled signals.  Authority is granted by signal indication.

Some single track signal systems only monitored control points and did not care about trains between them.  All the signals along the way were advance signals telling them what to expect to see at the next control point..

I isolate power blocks by cutting each rail going into and out of the block – a total of 4 cuts per block.  I feed power to the block through feeder wires connected to both rails about every 3 feet.  What cuts do I make to set up a detection block?


No problem here from an electrical connection point of view..

You now have to translate you DCC power districts into signal blocks by looking at the length of the electrical blocks relative to your train length.

IF a power district block is long enough to hold a train, it can be used as a signal block too.

If a given power district block is to short length wise, it must be combined with another adjacent power district block detection wise to create one that is long enough.


If one was to design a layout with signals.  It is alway best to define signal blocks first and then see if they can be used as power districts.  Typically it works out very well.

As best I can tell, I only need to isolate one rail for each detection block

Correct.

with a cut on either end and run the power lead to that rail thru the detection circuit with the other rail being powered by the normal track feeder.  Is this correct?


Correct.

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com




Clean Track Is Necessary For Good DCC Oppreation.

aztecmfg@...
 

FS Track Cleaning Cars in scales from "Z" to "G".

<aztectrains.com>

<aztecmfg@...>

John Claudino

 


DETECTION BLOCKS

Ed
 

I am building a new layout using DCC and want to install signals.  I understand that this requires I set up a detection block(s) for each signal.  Blocks are also set up to distribute power throughout the layout or to add reversing sections. My question involves my confusion regarding how each of these blocks fits together.  I isolate power blocks by cutting each rail going into and out of the block – a total of 4 cuts per block.  I feed power to the block through feeder wires connected to both rails about every 3 feet.  What cuts do I make to set up a detection block? As best I can tell, I only need to isolate one rail for each detection block with a cut on either end and run the power lead to that rail thru the detection circuit with the other rail being powered by the normal track feeder.  Is this correct? I also need to determine the location and length of each detection block – is there a good reference to read to help me there?


Ed Robinson



Re: Light on turntable arch

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Rich,

 

Not having reverse polarity protection to an LED powered directly from the DCC supply can cause a shortened lifetime of the LED. Yes, the LED seems to light correctly with current flowing in one direction, as when the DCC voltage reverses the LED does not light up but a human does not notice the blinking. HOWEVER most LEDs will suffer reverse voltage breakdown and conduct current in the reverse direction. Rated reverse voltage varies with LED color and manufacturing batch… usually only 5-7V. [look for the PIV spec on the data sheet.] So even with the resistor still in series to limit current… the forward plus reverse power dissipation creating internal heat in the LED is far greater than intended when operating in this mode. An extra hot semiconductor junction (the tiny part that gives off the light) shortens the lifetime. White or blue LEDs will be affected the most. Putting a diode in series or anti-parallel with the LED will work to protect the LED.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 11:03 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Light on turntable arch

 



A 1k, 1/4 watt resistor works. My NCE Power cab panel has a common 3mm red led with resistor across the DCC output.

 

Rich

On Sunday, June 26, 2016, 10:20 AM, riogrande491 riogrande491@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



David -

 

Making it work is pretty simple. The DCC track signal actually has both positive and negative polarities, so the LED can light up full-circle, except for the dead-bands when the polarity on the bridge reverses.

 

However, there is a very important detail to which we must first attend. LEDs don’t like being connected backwards to a voltage greater than about 5 volts, and a typical DCC installation runs about 15 volts. If we don’t do something, about half the time the LED will experience a 15 volt reverse voltage. Soon they can grow dim or entirely fail. Others might be happy for the life of the layout. So if we don’t want risk tearing into the turntable to replace the LED, we need a way to prevent the reverse polarity from causing a future problem.

 

For the sake of discussion, let us assume that you will use a 1K ohm a/k/a 1000 ohm resistor in series with the LED. The particular resistor value is relatively unimportant. Let us also assume that the resistor is located underneath the turntable deck. Connect a small diode, typically a 1N914 or 1N4148 (a small diode with a glass body and two leads) across the two wires running up to the LED. Polarity is important! If it is wrong, the LED won’t light, and it is time to swap the diode end-for-end. If the LED lights up, and connections are secure, life is good!

 

The usual polarity of a 3mm LED can be found by the length of the leads. The longer one is usually positive or +. On a diode, one end has a band. That is the cathode or - connection. Just solder the cathode or - of the diode to the wire running to the longer lead of the LED, or +. Then it should outlast both of us.

 

All the best!

----------------------------------------------

Bob

 

 





Re: Light on turntable arch

rg <richg_1998@...>
 

A 1k, 1/4 watt resistor works. My NCE Power cab panel has a common 3mm red led with resistor across the DCC output.

Rich



On Sunday, June 26, 2016, 10:20 AM, riogrande491 riogrande491@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:



David -

Making it work is pretty simple. The DCC track signal actually has both positive and negative polarities, so the LED can light up full-circle, except for the dead-bands when the polarity on the bridge reverses.

However, there is a very important detail to which we must first attend. LEDs don’t like being connected backwards to a voltage greater than about 5 volts, and a typical DCC installation runs about 15 volts. If we don’t do something, about half the time the LED will experience a 15 volt reverse voltage. Soon they can grow dim or entirely fail. Others might be happy for the life of the layout. So if we don’t want risk tearing into the turntable to replace the LED, we need a way to prevent the reverse polarity from causing a future problem.

For the sake of discussion, let us assume that you will use a 1K ohm a/k/a 1000 ohm resistor in series with the LED. The particular resistor value is relatively unimportant. Let us also assume that the resistor is located underneath the turntable deck. Connect a small diode, typically a 1N914 or 1N4148 (a small diode with a glass body and two leads) across the two wires running up to the LED. Polarity is important! If it is wrong, the LED won’t light, and it is time to swap the diode end-for-end. If the LED lights up, and connections are secure, life is good!

The usual polarity of a 3mm LED can be found by the length of the leads. The longer one is usually positive or +. On a diode, one end has a band. That is the cathode or - connection. Just solder the cathode or - of the diode to the wire running to the longer lead of the LED, or +. Then it should outlast both of us.

All the best!
----------------------------------------------
Bob




Re: Light on turntable arch

Blair
 

David

Don's idea will work. Alternatively, if you only have space for one tiny LED in the arch, is it wired from below? If so, feed it from the DC output side of a full wave rectifier, and feed the rectifier inputs with the rail A/B signals.


Blair Smith

On 16/06/24 16:37, DAVID KLEMM davidklemm7511@msn.com [WiringForDCC] wrote:
With the newer Walthers DCC turntables, can an LED be used on the arch? Part of me thinks no and that it will only work on half of the turntable. As the turntable goes through the dead spot and flips polarity the LED won't light.

David Klemm
Sent from my iPad

------------------------------------
Posted by: DAVID KLEMM <davidklemm7511@msn.com>
------------------------------------

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------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links




Re: Light on turntable arch

David Klemm
 

Don,

Great idea.  

David Klemm

On Jun 24, 2016, at 16:51, 'Vollrath, Don' dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

Wire two LEDs in inverse parallel with a single resistor to limit current... Then current can flow in either direction and light one of the LEDs. The voltage drops of one prevent reverse voltage on the other.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 3:37 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Light on turntable arch

With the newer Walthers DCC turntables, can an LED be used on the arch? Part of me thinks no and that it will only work on half of the turntable. As the turntable goes through the dead spot and flips polarity the LED won't light.

David Klemm


------------------------------------
Posted by: DAVID KLEMM <davidklemm7511@...>
------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.com
------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Re: Light on turntable arch

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Wire two LEDs in inverse parallel with a single resistor to limit current... Then current can flow in either direction and light one of the LEDs. The voltage drops of one prevent reverse voltage on the other.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 3:37 PM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Light on turntable arch

With the newer Walthers DCC turntables, can an LED be used on the arch? Part of me thinks no and that it will only work on half of the turntable. As the turntable goes through the dead spot and flips polarity the LED won't light.

David Klemm
------------------------------------
Posted by: DAVID KLEMM <davidklemm7511@msn.com>
------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.com
------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Re: Light on turntable arch

riogrande491
 

David -

Making it work is pretty simple. The DCC track signal actually has both positive and negative polarities, so the LED can light up full-circle, except for the dead-bands when the polarity on the bridge reverses.

However, there is a very important detail to which we must first attend. LEDs don’t like being connected backwards to a voltage greater than about 5 volts, and a typical DCC installation runs about 15 volts. If we don’t do something, about half the time the LED will experience a 15 volt reverse voltage. Soon they can grow dim or entirely fail. Others might be happy for the life of the layout. So if we don’t want risk tearing into the turntable to replace the LED, we need a way to prevent the reverse polarity from causing a future problem.

For the sake of discussion, let us assume that you will use a 1K ohm a/k/a 1000 ohm resistor in series with the LED. The particular resistor value is relatively unimportant. Let us also assume that the resistor is located underneath the turntable deck. Connect a small diode, typically a 1N914 or 1N4148 (a small diode with a glass body and two leads) across the two wires running up to the LED. Polarity is important! If it is wrong, the LED won’t light, and it is time to swap the diode end-for-end. If the LED lights up, and connections are secure, life is good!

The usual polarity of a 3mm LED can be found by the length of the leads. The longer one is usually positive or +. On a diode, one end has a band. That is the cathode or - connection. Just solder the cathode or - of the diode to the wire running to the longer lead of the LED, or +. Then it should outlast both of us.

All the best!
----------------------------------------------
Bob


Light on turntable arch

David Klemm
 

With the newer Walthers DCC turntables, can an LED be used on the arch? Part of me thinks no and that it will only work on half of the turntable. As the turntable goes through the dead spot and flips polarity the LED won't light.

David Klemm


Re: Help with RRampMeter

Glenn
 

Sometime ago I called American Hobby Distributors and left a message. I also sent an email without a response. American Hobby Distributors is on all the info sheets (Dtd 3/30/2005) that came with the RRampMeter. Those sheets listed the Radio Shack part Number to up grade the RRampMeter.

 

I tried yesterday afternoon and got to talk to a live person. They are sending me a switch with not mention of $$.

 

I agree the original probably was not an RS part, but lacking any specifics on the size or configuration of the switch I ask to search for an answer.

 

I noted printed on the circuit board was “Tony’s Train Exchange”.

 

Glenn

 


 

Why don’t you contact DCC specialties and have them identify the right part that fits the circuit board.

I’m sure the original didn’t come from Radio Shack.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:24 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Help with RRampMeter

 

A friend got frustrated with his RRampMeter #2 and gave it to me. He does not want it back!!!

 

He complained it shut off at low voltage. After reading the instructions (Gee, why didn’t he read them?) I knew the problem.

 

Now my problem is converting it to Version #3, the cited Radio Shack switch PN 275-409A is no longer available. Part # 275-409 is a wired switch with solder terminals instead of PC pins. And also larger.

 

Does anyone know of a switch from Digi-Key, Mouser or some other hobbyist friendly electronics house that can supply a similar switch. I do not know the spec other that in needs to have a low profile and be soldered to a PC board.

 

I’ve seen the RRampMeter mentioned on here and thought someone may have had the same dilemma.

 

Glenn




Re: Help with RRampMeter

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Why don’t you contact DCC specialties and have them identify the right part that fits the circuit board.

I’m sure the original didn’t come from Radio Shack.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:24 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Help with RRampMeter

 




A friend got frustrated with his RRampMeter #2 and gave it to me. He does not want it back!!!

 

He complained it shut off at low voltage. After reading the instructions (Gee, why didn’t he read them?) I knew the problem.

 

Now my problem is converting it to Version #3, the cited Radio Shack switch PN 275-409A is no longer available. Part # 275-409 is a wired switch with solder terminals instead of PC pins. And also larger.

 

Does anyone know of a switch from Digi-Key, Mouser or some other hobbyist friendly electronics house that can supply a similar switch. I do not know the spec other that in needs to have a low profile and be soldered to a PC board.

 

I’ve seen the RRampMeter mentioned on here and thought someone may have had the same dilemma.

 

Glenn





Help with RRampMeter

Glenn
 

A friend got frustrated with his RRampMeter #2 and gave it to me. He does not want it back!!!

 

He complained it shut off at low voltage. After reading the instructions (Gee, why didn’t he read them?) I knew the problem.

 

Now my problem is converting it to Version #3, the cited Radio Shack switch PN 275-409A is no longer available. Part # 275-409 is a wired switch with solder terminals instead of PC pins. And also larger.

 

Does anyone know of a switch from Digi-Key, Mouser or some other hobbyist friendly electronics house that can supply a similar switch. I do not know the spec other that in needs to have a low profile and be soldered to a PC board.

 

I’ve seen the RRampMeter mentioned on here and thought someone may have had the same dilemma.

 

Glenn


Re: Wiring & Gapping Reverse Loop

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Marvin,

 

Your diagram indicates 4 entrance/exit tracks to the loop. (Draw a vertical line near the center of the diagram to identify them.) To ensure maximum flexibility to work with whatever polarity is connected to the 3-entrances lines toward the left, place gaps on both rails of the 4 entrances to the loop and power all tracks within the entire loop toward the right, including the two (top and bottom) turnouts, from the output end of a PSX-AR unit. Drop additional rail feeders inside the loop every 3-6 feet as needed. Place insulated rail joiners on each rail at the frog ends of turnouts to avoid the need to actually cut rails. Be sure to power the PSX-AR directly from the main booster output. Powering turnout frog/exit rails via the points is (eventually) problematic. Use a supplemental switch to power the frog rails based on turnout position or use a frog Juicer for more reliable operation.  

 

If you are contemplating using the auto-throw feature of the Hare, adding trigger detection rails becomes a lot more complicated.

 

DonV    

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2016 1:14 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Wiring & Gapping Reverse Loop

 




I have just uploaded an image of a new reverse section I am building for my HO layout. I am using Peco flex track, Peco Insulfrog turnouts (powered through the points), and Tortoise + HARE turnout control. I am about to add feeders to the section in the diagram, but would like to confirm where to place them and how to wire them to the PSX-AR that I want to use as the reversing controller. I also need help on how to gap the rails given that there are 3 turnouts that are part of the loop.

 

Any and all help will be appreciated,

Marvin Pankaskie

Rochester, NY 14450





Wiring & Gapping Reverse Loop

Marvin Pankaskie
 

I have just uploaded an image of a new reverse section I am building for my HO layout. I am using Peco flex track, Peco Insulfrog turnouts (powered through the points), and Tortoise + HARE turnout control. I am about to add feeders to the section in the diagram, but would like to confirm where to place them and how to wire them to the PSX-AR that I want to use as the reversing controller. I also need help on how to gap the rails given that there are 3 turnouts that are part of the loop.


Any and all help will be appreciated,

Marvin Pankaskie

Rochester, NY 14450


New file uploaded to WiringForDCC

WiringForDCC@...
 

Hello,


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File : /New Reverse Loop.jpg
Uploaded by : marvinpankaskie <thealchemist@rochester.rr.com>
Description : New Reverse Loop from Marvin Pankaskie that needs suggestions for where to locate feeders, track gaps, to work with PSX-AR + Peco Insulfrog turnouts


You can access this file at the URL:
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