Date   
Short circuits and multiple boosters

Chris Elliott
 

Hi group, I'm in need of a bit of advice.
I have a single loop layout which is rather long. Due to it's physical size I have used 1 Digitrax booster (DB150) and 1 Digitrax command station (DCS100) to keep the feeder lengths to about 30 feet. Each of the Digitrax boxes has it's own power supply each of which is capable of delivering more than 5amps. The 2 Digitrax boxes are connected to each other with a loconet cable and a "home ground". The DB150 is set up as a booster.
The loop is has both rails electrical isolated at 2 places, resulting in 2 independent power districts.

Now for the problem.
When a locomotive causes a short circuit in the middle of a district, it causes the other district to shutdown.
I expected that only the booster connected to the effected district would shutdown.

Is my expectation correct or do I have a problem?

Thank You
Chris Elliott


Re: Short circuits and multiple boosters

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

In which booster district is the short located when both boosters shut down… the DCS100 or DB150 booster district?

Does a track short in the other district cause the same problem?

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 9:26 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Short circuits and multiple boosters

 



Hi group, I'm in need of a bit of advice.
I have a single loop layout which is rather long. Due to it's physical size I have used 1 Digitrax booster (DB150) and 1 Digitrax command station (DCS100) to keep the feeder lengths to about 30 feet. Each of the Digitrax boxes has it's own power supply each of which is capable of delivering more than 5amps. The 2 Digitrax boxes are connected to each other with a loconet cable and a "home ground". The DB150 is set up as a booster.
The loop is has both rails electrical isolated at 2 places, resulting in 2 independent power districts.

Now for the problem.
When a locomotive causes a short circuit in the middle of a district, it causes the other district to shutdown.
I expected that only the booster connected to the effected district would shutdown.

Is my expectation correct or do I have a problem?

Thank You
Chris Elliott

 




Re: Short circuits and multiple boosters

Chris Elliott
 

Good question.
The short that prompted this post was in the DB150 district. I haven't noticed a short occurring in the DCS100 district shutting down the DB150, I will check that out when I get home from work.
Thanks
Chris Elliott

Re: Short circuits and multiple boosters

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Chris,

With power off disconnect both track wires from the DB150 and measure the ohms from each of those DCC district wires to track connections of the DSC100. There should be an almost infinite ohms reading… ie - No connections.

Also verify that you have the polarity of the boosters connected correctly to avoiding shorts between booster districts. A quick voltage check across same-rail gaps isolating should measure near zero Vac.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 10:04 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Short circuits and multiple boosters

 




Good question.

The short that prompted this post was in the DB150 district. I haven't noticed a short occurring in the DCS100 district shutting down the DB150, I will check that out when I get home from work.

Thanks

Chris Elliott

 




Re: Digest Numer 2400

Robert Googooian
 

I did consider a spring switch, but worried about changing the polarity of the frog. The train lengths are indeed short - the primary layout space  is small 10.5 by 11.5 ft and will be narrow gauge. The Standard gauge comes in and picks up mining and lumber products and delivers some supplies, so there are only a few cars in each train, I'm figuring loco, caboose, and 3-4 cars in most trains. Still working out the industries. And maybe a motor car (DRGW style) and a mail run (Yampa Valley style - steam loco, rpo, and a coach).  The sidings in town will only be able to hold a car or two. I'm planning a dual gauge wye in the loft space to allow for turning the SG locos. Staging will only have a reversing loop and three short through tracks in it as well, and a couple short stubs, so the siding length should be just about equal to those.

Bob




Re: Digest Number 2400

Paul O
 

>>I did consider a spring switch, but worried about changing the polarity of the frog. <<

 

Consider a Tam Valley Dual Frog Juicer.

 

Paul O

Re: Digest Numer 2400

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Bob,

So now there are three (not two) interleaved staging tracks in the return loop? Got a sketch?

How will the operator select and get a train to return from staging?

Will the operator be able to select which track/train returns from the loop… or do you want first-in = first-out?

If the answer is first-in, first-out … Could a single loop be big enough to hold more than 3 trains end to end?

What’s to prevent an operator from sending yet another train into staging when it is already full?

How will an operator remember what loco numbers are in the hidden staging and be able to address one with DCC and drive it out?

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:57 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Digest Numer 2400

 




I did consider a spring switch, but worried about changing the polarity of the frog. The train lengths are indeed short - the primary layout space  is small 10.5 by 11.5 ft and will be narrow gauge. The Standard gauge comes in and picks up mining and lumber products and delivers some supplies, so there are only a few cars in each train, I'm figuring loco, caboose, and 3-4 cars in most trains. Still working out the industries. And maybe a motor car (DRGW style) and a mail run (Yampa Valley style - steam loco, rpo, and a coach).  The sidings in town will only be able to hold a car or two. I'm planning a dual gauge wye in the loft space to allow for turning the SG locos. Staging will only have a reversing loop and three short through tracks in it as well, and a couple short stubs, so the siding length should be just about equal to those.



Bob

 


 




Re: Digest Number 2400

Robert Googooian
 

Don -
Sorry no sketch, and for any confusion.  The staging return loop and staging tracks I think I have in hand - they will need  an A/R, detection and turnout routing controls, but I plan a display panel. The loco numbers I will know when I stage each ops session. 

The area I am concerned about is NOT in the hidden staging area, but out over the living room along a beam which bisects the area. This is 11 feet above the floor and not easily accessed physically, but the operators can see their trains when standing at the top of the stairway.Think of a simple squared-off C with the ends pointing back to you on the left and right and the elongated middle four feet away and over an 11 'drop. I want to make it simple  - any train always takes the right side of the turnout  - I think I will lay out two left hand #6s.  The problem is that I cannot have a very thick support structure - a sandwich of 1/2" ply, 1x2, 1/2" ply and foam or cork roadbed (track sound deadening is desired - suggestions?). so while there is room for wires and I think I can hide a turnout motor atop the roadbed surface, I would like to automate the operation so the turnout is correct for entrance and exit. It may be that the same operator will do the standard gauge runs consecutively and not have to worry about passing or meeting, but I'd like to be able to do meets as a complication for the fun of it - say the freight meets the mail or the motor car coming and going during an ops session.There will only be room for 3 operators max in the loft. And most of the time it will be just me and a guest or solo.


Bob



2c

Re: Digest Numer 2400

Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:33 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Vollrath, Don" donevol

Bob,
So now there are three (not two) interleaved staging tracks in the return loop? Got a sketch?
How will the operator select and get a train to return from staging?
Will the operator be able to select which track/train returns from the loop… or do you want first-in = first-out?
If the answer is first-in, first-out … Could a single loop be big enough to hold more than 3 trains end to end?
What’s to prevent an operator from sending yet another train into staging when it is already full?
How will an operator remember what loco numbers are in the hidden staging and be able to address one with DCC and drive it out?
DonV

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:57 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Digest Numer 2400




I did consider a spring switch, but worried about changing the polarity of the frog. The train lengths are indeed short - the primary layout space is small 10.5 by 11.5 ft and will be narrow gauge. The Standard gauge comes in and picks up mining and lumber products and delivers some supplies, so there are only a few cars in each train, I'm figuring loco, caboose, and 3-4 cars in most trains. Still working out the industries. And maybe a motor car (DRGW style) and a mail run (Yampa Valley style - steam loco, rpo, and a coach). The sidings in town will only be able to hold a car or two. I'm planning a dual gauge wye in the loft space to allow for turning the SG locos. Staging will only have a reversing loop and three short through tracks in it as well, and a couple short stubs, so the siding length should be just about equal to those.


Bob

____________ _________ _________ __







RR Circuits Towerman

kherr4377
 


I want to drive some panel LEDs showing switch routes with RR&Co Gold. I'm guessing that Towerman is the most economicl way to do this. Can TM do this directly or do I need other modules. Or do I need something altogether different?? I'm usind DS64s for the torti. Using the contacts on the torti would be extremely difficult, if not impossiable.

Kevin

Re: RR Circuits Towerman

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

The Towerman might work. Contact Dick at rr circuts for advice. If you are controlling Torti via DCC or LocoNet commands there are other devices, like the Team Digital SIC-24AD, that can light up route controlled LEDs.

DonV  

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 2:42 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] RR Circuits Towerman

 




 

I want to drive some panel LEDs showing switch routes with RR&Co Gold. I'm guessing that Towerman is the most economicl way to do this. Can TM do this directly or do I need other modules. Or do I need something altogether different?? I'm usind DS64s for the torti. Using the contacts on the torti would be extremely difficult, if not impossiable.

Kevin




Re: Digest Number 2400

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Sorry. I thought the overhead area was a/the staging area. A ‘squared off C’ sounds like a return/reversing loop or maybe/simply part of the bi-directional mainline. Since operators can always see what is going on and prevent accidents, the spring switch idea is undoubtedly the simplest. Set up the spring switches so that a train arriving from either direction always takes the path to the right. The light spring loaded switch will let the exiting train pass through when going forward… they must not back up. Automatic electric controls to flip the switches depend heavily on the type/brand of switch machine you chose according to your scale. The Hare device, with its auto-flipping and return path timer, may not directly activate the type you chose/select. Peruse the G scale catalogs for options.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 6:58 PM
To: wiringforDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Digest Number 2400

 




Don -

Sorry no sketch, and for any confusion.  The staging return loop and staging tracks I think I have in hand - they will need  an A/R, detection and turnout routing controls, but I plan a display panel. The loco numbers I will know when I stage each ops session. 

 

The area I am concerned about is NOT in the hidden staging area, but out over the living room along a beam which bisects the area. This is 11 feet above the floor and not easily accessed physically, but the operators can see their trains when standing at the top of the stairway.Think of a simple squared-off C with the ends pointing back to you on the left and right and the elongated middle four feet away and over an 11 'drop. I want to make it simple  - any train always takes the right side of the turnout  - I think I will lay out two left hand #6s.  The problem is that I cannot have a very thick support structure - a sandwich of 1/2" ply, 1x2, 1/2" ply and foam or cork roadbed (track sound deadening is desired - suggestions?). so while there is room for wires and I think I can hide a turnout motor atop the roadbed surface, I would like to automate the operation so the turnout is correct for entrance and exit. It may be that the same operator will do the standard gauge runs consecutively and not have to worry about passing or meeting, but I'd like to be able to do meets as a complication for the fun of it - say the freight meets the mail or the motor car coming and going during an ops session.There will only be room for 3 operators max in the loft. And most of the time it will be just me and a guest or solo.

 

 

Bob

 

 

 

Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:33 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Vollrath, Don" donevol

Bob,
So now there are three (not two) interleaved staging tracks in the return loop? Got a sketch?
How will the operator select and get a train to return from staging?
Will the operator be able to select which track/train returns from the loop… or do you want first-in = first-out?
If the answer is first-in, first-out … Could a single loop be big enough to hold more than 3 trains end to end?
What’s to prevent an operator from sending yet another train into staging when it is already full?
How will an operator remember what loco numbers are in the hidden staging and be able to address one with DCC and drive it out?
DonV

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:57 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Digest Numer 2400




I did consider a spring switch, but worried about changing the polarity of the frog. The train lengths are indeed short - the primary layout space is small 10.5 by 11.5 ft and will be narrow gauge. The Standard gauge comes in and picks up mining and lumber products and delivers some supplies, so there are only a few cars in each train, I'm figuring loco, caboose, and 3-4 cars in most trains. Still working out the industries. And maybe a motor car (DRGW style) and a mail run (Yampa Valley style - steam loco, rpo, and a coach). The sidings in town will only be able to hold a car or two. I'm planning a dual gauge wye in the loft space to allow for turning the SG locos. Staging will only have a reversing loop and three short through tracks in it as well, and a couple short stubs, so the siding length should be just about equal to those.


Bob

____________ _________ _________ __




 




Re: RR Circuits Towerman

John Cahill
 

Have you considered DCCConcepts ADFx range of decoders, designed for stall motors and with LED outputs built into decoder, 2 way and 8 way available and reasonably priced in my experience (I use the S range for solenoid motors)?

Best Regards,
John

On Jan 28, 2016, at 14:33, "'Vollrath, Don' dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

The Towerman might work. Contact Dick at rr circuts for advice. If you are controlling Torti via DCC or LocoNet commands there are other devices, like the Team Digital SIC-24AD, that can light up route controlled LEDs.

DonV  

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 2:42 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] RR Circuits Towerman

 




 

I want to drive some panel LEDs showing switch routes with RR&Co Gold. I'm guessing that Towerman is the most economicl way to do this. Can TM do this directly or do I need other modules. Or do I need something altogether different?? I'm usind DS64s for the torti. Using the contacts on the torti would be extremely difficult, if not impossiable.

Kevin




Re: RR Circuits Towerman

kherr4377
 

Team Digital ... That's the other company I was wanting to check out .....I couldn't think of it. I knew there was someone else.

Thanks

Kevin

Re: RR Circuits Towerman

kherr4377
 

The Team Digital SIC24e is exactly what I need. I don't need all the fancy programming options as RR&Co will do all that. A little pricey, but it will fit right in on the LocoNet. I can in all reality light all the outputs and it won't overload anything.

Thanks

Kevin

Re: RR Circuits Towerman

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Kevin,

It may not be as simple as you first envision. When RR&Co sends out a command to turn newly selected route lights On, it must also remember to first turn previously selected route lights Off (!). The SIC24 can source or sink 5V. Be sure to use resistors to limit LED current. I’ve used it to also monitor panel PBs and send out those commands on LocoNet. Power the SIC24 from DCC on your panel and then you can program it as installed. There is no read-back, but w/ PanelPro you don’t need read-back when you can write to all CVs from memory.

DonV  

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 11:33 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: RR Circuits Towerman

 



The Team Digital SIC24e is exactly what I need. I don't need all the fancy programming options as RR&Co will do all that. A little pricey, but it will fit right in on the LocoNet. I can in all reality light all the outputs and it won't overload anything.

Thanks

Kevin


Re: Digest Number 24030

Robert Googooian
 

Thanks Don.

I think I will go with the spring switch as the simplest.  Should the frogs be very short and dead or polarity switched somehow? Typical motive power will be 2-8-0s and 2-8-2s or early diesels - RS-3 (Atlas) or GP7/9 (Proto). Or would KAs in the locos make dead frogs moot?

Bob


2a

Re: Digest Number 2400

Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:26 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Vollrath, Don" donevol

Sorry. I thought the overhead area was a/the staging area. A ‘squared off C’ sounds like a return/reversing loop or maybe/simply part of the bi-directional mainline. Since operators can always see what is going on and prevent accidents, the spring switch idea is undoubtedly the simplest. Set up the spring switches so that a train arriving from either direction always takes the path to the right. The light spring loaded switch will let the exiting train pass through when going forward… they must not back up. Automatic electric controls to flip the switches depend heavily on the type/brand of switch machine you chose according to your scale. The Hare device, with its auto-flipping and return path timer, may not directly activate the type you chose/select. Peruse the G scale catalogs for options.
DonV

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 6:58 PM
To: wiringforDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Digest Number 2400




Don -
Sorry no sketch, and for any confusion. The staging return loop and staging tracks I think I have in hand - they will need an A/R, detection and turnout routing controls, but I plan a display panel. The loco numbers I will know when I stage each ops session.

The area I am concerned about is NOT in the hidden staging area, but out over the living room along a beam which bisects the area. This is 11 feet above the floor and not easily accessed physically, but the operators can see their trains when standing at the top of the stairway.Think of a simple squared-off C with the ends pointing back to you on the left and right and the elongated middle four feet away and over an 11 'drop. I want to make it simple - any train always takes the right side of the turnout - I think I will lay out two left hand #6s. The problem is that I cannot have a very thick support structure - a sandwich of 1/2" ply, 1x2, 1/2" ply and foam or cork roadbed (track sound deadening is desired - suggestions?). so while there is room for wires and I think I can hide a turnout motor atop the roadbed surface, I would like to automate the operation so the turnout is correct for entrance and exit. It may be that the same operator will do the standard gauge runs consecutively and not have to worry about passing or meeting, but I'd like to be able to do meets as a complication for the fun of it - say the freight meets the mail or the motor car coming and going during an ops session.There will only be room for 3 operators max in the loft. And most of the time it will be just me and a guest or solo.


Bob



2c
Re: Digest Numer 2400
Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:33 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Vollrath, Don" donevol
Bob,
So now there are three (not two) interleaved staging tracks in the return loop? Got a sketch?
How will the operator select and get a train to return from staging?
Will the operator be able to select which track/train returns from the loop… or do you want first-in = first-out?
If the answer is first-in, first-out … Could a single loop be big enough to hold more than 3 trains end to end?
What’s to prevent an operator from sending yet another train into staging when it is already full?
How will an operator remember what loco numbers are in the hidden staging and be able to address one with DCC and drive it out?
DonV

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:57 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Digest Numer 2400




I did consider a spring switch, but worried about changing the polarity of the frog. The train lengths are indeed short - the primary layout space is small 10.5 by 11.5 ft and will be narrow gauge. The Standard gauge comes in and picks up mining and lumber products and delivers some supplies, so there are only a few cars in each train, I'm figuring loco, caboose, and 3-4 cars in most trains. Still working out the industries. And maybe a motor car (DRGW style) and a mail run (Yampa Valley style - steam loco, rpo, and a coach). The sidings in town will only be able to hold a car or two. I'm planning a dual gauge wye in the loft space to allow for turning the SG locos. Staging will only have a reversing loop and three short through tracks in it as well, and a couple short stubs, so the siding length should be just about equal to those.


Bob

·

Re: Digest Number 24030

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

If there is a way to do it with your choice of turnout/switch, add a frog juicer if it is a metal frog.

Be sure that the track and switch rail joints do not cause any ‘bumps’ that tend to lift the loco wheels slightly off the rails. Also watch loco wheel flange depth vs all parts of the guide rails & frog. Check it all out on the bench before putting it up out of reach. KA can fix some of the connection issues but not derailments.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2016 10:46 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Digest Number 24030

 




Thanks Don.

 

I think I will go with the spring switch as the simplest.  Should the frogs be very short and dead or polarity switched somehow? Typical motive power will be 2-8-0s and 2-8-2s or early diesels - RS-3 (Atlas) or GP7/9 (Proto). Or would KAs in the locos make dead frogs moot?

 

Bob

 

Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:26 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Vollrath, Don" donevol

Sorry. I thought the overhead area was a/the staging area. A ‘squared off C’ sounds like a return/reversing loop or maybe/simply part of the bi-directional mainline. Since operators can always see what is going on and prevent accidents, the spring switch idea is undoubtedly the simplest. Set up the spring switches so that a train arriving from either direction always takes the path to the right. The light spring loaded switch will let the exiting train pass through when going forward… they must not back up. Automatic electric controls to flip the switches depend heavily on the type/brand of switch machine you chose according to your scale. The Hare device, with its auto-flipping and return path timer, may not directly activate the type you chose/select. Peruse the G scale catalogs for options.
DonV

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 6:58 PM
To: wiringforDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Digest Number 2400




Don -
Sorry no sketch, and for any confusion. The staging return loop and staging tracks I think I have in hand - they will need an A/R, detection and turnout routing controls, but I plan a display panel. The loco numbers I will know when I stage each ops session.

The area I am concerned about is NOT in the hidden staging area, but out over the living room along a beam which bisects the area. This is 11 feet above the floor and not easily accessed physically, but the operators can see their trains when standing at the top of the stairway.Think of a simple squared-off C with the ends pointing back to you on the left and right and the elongated middle four feet away and over an 11 'drop. I want to make it simple - any train always takes the right side of the turnout - I think I will lay out two left hand #6s. The problem is that I cannot have a very thick support structure - a sandwich of 1/2" ply, 1x2, 1/2" ply and foam or cork roadbed (track sound deadening is desired - suggestions?). so while there is room for wires and I think I can hide a turnout motor atop the roadbed surface, I would like to automate the operation so the turnout is correct for entrance and exit. It may be that the same operator will do the standard gauge runs consecutively and not have to worry about passing or meeting, but I'd like to be able to do meets as a complication for the fun of it - say the freight meets the mail or the motor car coming and going during an ops session.There will only be room for 3 operators max in the loft. And most of the time it will be just me and a guest or solo.


Bob



2c
Re: Digest Numer 2400 <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/WiringForDCC/conversations/topics/9539;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZXFhcDc3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0ODE3MDcyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzU3NgRtc2dJZAM5NTM5BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzE0NTM4ODc0NzQ-?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma>
Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:33 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Vollrath, Don" donevol <mailto:dvollrath@...?subject=Re%3A%20Digest%20Numer%202400>
Bob,
So now there are three (not two) interleaved staging tracks in the return loop? Got a sketch?
How will the operator select and get a train to return from staging?
Will the operator be able to select which track/train returns from the loop… or do you want first-in = first-out?
If the answer is first-in, first-out … Could a single loop be big enough to hold more than 3 trains end to end?
What’s to prevent an operator from sending yet another train into staging when it is already full?
How will an operator remember what loco numbers are in the hidden staging and be able to address one with DCC and drive it out?
DonV

From: WiringForDCC@...<mailto:WiringForDCC@...> [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:57 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...<mailto:WiringForDCC@...>
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Digest Numer 2400




I did consider a spring switch, but worried about changing the polarity of the frog. The train lengths are indeed short - the primary layout space is small 10.5 by 11.5 ft and will be narrow gauge. The Standard gauge comes in and picks up mining and lumber products and delivers some supplies, so there are only a few cars in each train, I'm figuring loco, caboose, and 3-4 cars in most trains. Still working out the industries. And maybe a motor car (DRGW style) and a mail run (Yampa Valley style - steam loco, rpo, and a coach). The sidings in town will only be able to hold a car or two. I'm planning a dual gauge wye in the loft space to allow for turning the SG locos. Staging will only have a reversing loop and three short through tracks in it as well, and a couple short stubs, so the siding length should be just about equal to those.


Bob

·

 




Re: Digest Number 24030

Craig Zeni
 

On Jan 29, 2016, at 11:45 AM, Robert Googooian k59mikado@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:



Thanks Don.

I think I will go with the spring switch as the simplest. Should the frogs be very short and dead or polarity switched somehow? Typical motive power will be 2-8-0s and 2-8-2s or early diesels - RS-3 (Atlas) or GP7/9 (Proto). Or would KAs in the locos make dead frogs moot?
KAs really make a big difference...they will 'smooth over' any intermittent pick up issues and make a loco that tends to stutter into a smooth runner. The downside of course is that if your engineer runs a turnout and the track power drops that the loco won't stop immediately. Having said that caveat, I'm all in on KAs.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC

Re: Digest Number 24030

Flash Gordon
 

At 11:45 AM 1/29/2016, you wrote:
 

Thanks Don.

I think I will go with the spring switch as the simplest.  Should the frogs be very short and dead or polarity switched somehow? Typical motive power will be 2-8-0s and 2-8-2s or early diesels - RS-3 (Atlas) or GP7/9 (Proto). Or would KAs in the locos make dead frogs moot?

Bob



2a




Re: Digest Number 2400




Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:26 am (PST) . Posted by:




"Vollrath, Don" donevol



Sorry. I thought the overhead area was a/the staging area. A ‘squared off C’ sounds like a return/reversing loop or maybe/simply part of the bi-directional mainline. Since operators can always see what is going on and prevent accidents, the spring switch idea is undoubtedly the simplest. Set up the spring switches so that a train arriving from either direction always takes the path to the right. The light spring loaded switch will let the exiting train pass through when going forward… they must not back up. Automatic electric controls to flip the switches depend heavily on the type/brand of switch machine you chose according to your scale. The Hare device, with its auto-flipping and return path timer, may not directly activate the type you chose/select. Peruse the G scale catalogs for options.
DonV

From: WiringForDCC@... [ mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 6:58 PM
To: wiringforDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Digest Number 2400




Don -
Sorry no sketch, and for any confusion. The staging return loop and staging tracks I think I have in hand - they will need an A/R, detection and turnout routing controls, but I plan a display panel. The loco numbers I will know when I stage each ops session.

The area I am concerned about is NOT in the hidden staging area, but out over the living room along a beam which bisects the area. This is 11 feet above the floor and not easily accessed physically, but the operators can see their trains when standing at the top of the stairway.Think of a simple squared-off C with the ends pointing back to you on the left and right and the elongated middle four feet away and over an 11 'drop. I want to make it simple - any train always takes the right side of the turnout - I think I will lay out two left hand #6s. The problem is that I cannot have a very thick support structure - a sandwich of 1/2" ply, 1x2, 1/2" ply and foam or cork roadbed (track sound deadening is desired - suggestions?). so while there is room for wires and I think I can hide a turnout motor atop the roadbed surface, I would like to automate the operation so the turnout is correct for entrance and exit. It may be that the same operator will do the standard gauge runs consecutively and not have to worry about passing or meeting, but I'd like to be able to do meets as a complication for the fun of it - say the freight meets the mail or the motor car coming and going during an ops session.There will only be room for 3 operators max in the loft. And most of the time it will be just me and a guest or solo.


Bob



2c
Re: Digest Numer 2400 < https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/WiringForDCC/conversations/topics/9539;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZXFhcDc3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0ODE3MDcyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzU3NgRtc2dJZAM5NTM5BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzE0NTM4ODc0NzQ-?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma >
Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:33 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Vollrath, Don" donevol < mailto:dvollrath@...?subject=Re%3A%20Digest%20Numer%202400 >
Bob,
So now there are three (not two) interleaved staging tracks in the return loop? Got a sketch?
How will the operator select and get a train to return from staging?
Will the operator be able to select which track/train returns from the loop… or do you want first-in = first-out?
If the answer is first-in, first-out … Could a single loop be big eenough to hold more than 3 trains end to end?
What’s to prevent an operator from sending yet another train into staging when it is already full?
How will an operator remember what loco numbers are in the hidden staging and be able to address one with DCC and drive it out?
DonV

From: WiringForDCC@...< mailto:WiringForDCC@...> [ mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:57 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...< mailto:WiringForDCC@...>
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Digest Numer 2400




I did consider a spring switch, but worried about changing the polarity of the frog. The train lengths are indeed short - the primary layout space is small 10.5 by 11.5 ft and will be narrow gauge. The Standard gauge comes in and picks up mining and lumber products and delivers some supplies, so there are only a few cars in each train, I'm figuring loco, caboose, and 3-4 cars in most trains. Still working out the industries. And maybe a motor car (DRGW style) and a mail run (Yampa Valley style - steam loco, rpo, and a coach). The sidings in town will only be able to hold a car or two. I'm planning a dual gauge wye in the loft space to allow for turning the SG locos. Staging will only have a reversing loop and three short through tracks in it as well, and a couple short stubs, so the siding length should be just about equal to those.


Bob

·

Is the Ammeter Right?

jimcubie@...
 

I have followed Alan's advice about how to use full wave bridge rectifier to measure DCC voltage and current with a standard digital multimeter.  Thanks so much for this advice.  Both volt measurements seem about right when you adjust for the lost V's with the larger cap. (I measure no drop form the small cap used in the peak measurement circuit.


 I am concerned about the current measurement. It may be too low. I first used 4 of the same diodes I used to rectify the volt signal (N1004i (?))  to rectify the DCC wave to measure amp -- but they got real hot so I realized they were not rated for the # of amps coming out of my Digitrax Zephyr throttle --- up to 3.4 amps.  So I bought a Radio Shack rectifier - actually a Vishnay KBU4D - rated at 4 amps.  When I set it up and put two small engines on a small piece of track wired close to the throttle (no buss) and running flat out (wheels spinning) the meter is showing about 0.3 amps -- or about a tenth of the amps that the throttle can give out. ( One engine is a Bachman GE 70 Ton Diesel and the other is an Atlas HO Alco s-2.  Obviously i am modeling HO)


Does 0.3 amps sound about right? 


I thought there might be a cap in the rectifier that was dropping -- but the spec sheet does no show any.