Date   

Re: Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points

Bill><>
 

plastic frogs or the newer metal frogs?
Bill
 

Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2015 2:59 AM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points
 
 



After 2 years of successfully running a mid-size layout with all Atlas track
and turnouts, I have just recently noticed that when a locomotive enters a
turnout from the points end of the turnout, the loco stalls when it is over
the frog and my circuit breaker resets, indicating a short has occurred
somewhere within the turnout track. After the circuit breaker resets and the
loco moves away, it runs fine until it hits another turnout, although not
all turnouts are affected. I have tried cleaning the track, cleaning the
loco wheels, and trying other locos (3 out of 5 locos experience this
problem). If I run the locos in the opposite direction the short does not
occur. I have not yet tried to bend or adjust the points, or do anything
else to the turnout rails except clean them.

Can you suggest why I am just now experiencing this problem? Temperature or
humidity? Track voltage (I am running with an NCE ProCab + 5 Amp Command
Station)? Track alignment?

Can you suggest a solution to my problem?

Thank you kindly,

Marvin Pankaskie

Rochester, NY 14450

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points

Marvin Pankaskie
 

After 2 years of successfully running a mid-size layout with all Atlas track
and turnouts, I have just recently noticed that when a locomotive enters a
turnout from the points end of the turnout, the loco stalls when it is over
the frog and my circuit breaker resets, indicating a short has occurred
somewhere within the turnout track. After the circuit breaker resets and the
loco moves away, it runs fine until it hits another turnout, although not
all turnouts are affected. I have tried cleaning the track, cleaning the
loco wheels, and trying other locos (3 out of 5 locos experience this
problem). If I run the locos in the opposite direction the short does not
occur. I have not yet tried to bend or adjust the points, or do anything
else to the turnout rails except clean them.



Can you suggest why I am just now experiencing this problem? Temperature or
humidity? Track voltage (I am running with an NCE ProCab + 5 Amp Command
Station)? Track alignment?



Can you suggest a solution to my problem?



Thank you kindly,



Marvin Pankaskie

Rochester, NY 14450


Re: Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version

John White
 

I have the Walthers 90 ft Turntable and used the Digitrax AR-1, which I also use for my Y track. They both respond very well with no issues. All I did was isolated the Y track at the Y turnout, the rest takes cars of itself.
JT


Re: Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version

Ross Kudlick
 

Neal,

The built-in power reversing will work with either DC (polarity reversing) or DCC (phase reversing).  An additional reversing module (or DPDT switch) is not required.  DC and DCC both require the same electrical switching for any track reversing section.

I see that Michael Sherbak has posted a link to instructions for converting the turntable control to DCC vice the original Walthers control panel.

Kind regards,

Ross Kudlick

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:40 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version

 

 

Ross, when these came out they were DC only, which is the version I have. Since that time I saw they made a DCC version and there was supposedly an adapter to make it DCC is no longer available, and not on their site. That's why I wanted to know about using the PSX-AR circuit.

 

Neal


Re: Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version

Cheryl Gale-Multz
 

Thanks Michael!

Neal



On Thursday, June 11, 2015 2:52 PM, "Michael Sherbak msherbak11@... [WiringForDCC]" wrote:


 

Here's a conversion from mark hurries website

On Thursday, June 11, 2015, Neal Multz multzy@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 
Ross, when these came out they were DC only, which is the version I have. Since that time I saw they made a DCC version and there was supposedly an adapter to make it DCC is no longer available, and not on their site. That's why I wanted to know about using the PSX-AR circuit.

Neal



On Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:34 AM, "'Ross Kudlick' cnjross2000@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:


 
Neal,
Is electrical reversing built-in to your turntable?  Most manufactured turntables do.
This is from the instructions for the Walthers 90’ Built-Up Turntable model 933-2840:
“Installing the Pit
Your new turntable automatically reverses track polarity when turned.  .  .  .”
Regards,
Ross Kudlick
 
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:24 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version
 
 
Hello everyone. 
 
I have the Walthers 90' HO scale Turntable (assembled version). I'm using the NCE system, and I want to wire the turntable. I know there will be some type of reversing scenario as the turntable switches position.
 
Can I use a PSX-AR auto reverser and wire that for the turntable, so when the engine leaves to other tracks there won't be a short? In addition there will be isolation from the rest of the layout both rails will have insulated joiners on them. There will one track from the layout leading to the turntable...
 
Any feedback and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks!
 
Neal M.

Posted by: multzy@...




--
Michael Sherbak



Re: Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version

Michael Sherbak
 


On Thursday, June 11, 2015, Neal Multz multzy@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Ross, when these came out they were DC only, which is the version I have. Since that time I saw they made a DCC version and there was supposedly an adapter to make it DCC is no longer available, and not on their site. That's why I wanted to know about using the PSX-AR circuit.

Neal



On Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:34 AM, "'Ross Kudlick' cnjross2000@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:


 
Neal,
Is electrical reversing built-in to your turntable?  Most manufactured turntables do.
This is from the instructions for the Walthers 90’ Built-Up Turntable model 933-2840:
“Installing the Pit
Your new turntable automatically reverses track polarity when turned.  .  .  .”
Regards,
Ross Kudlick
 
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:24 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version
 
 
Hello everyone. 
 
I have the Walthers 90' HO scale Turntable (assembled version). I'm using the NCE system, and I want to wire the turntable. I know there will be some type of reversing scenario as the turntable switches position.
 
Can I use a PSX-AR auto reverser and wire that for the turntable, so when the engine leaves to other tracks there won't be a short? In addition there will be isolation from the rest of the layout both rails will have insulated joiners on them. There will one track from the layout leading to the turntable...
 
Any feedback and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks!
 
Neal M.

Posted by: multzy@...




--
Michael Sherbak


Re: Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version

Cheryl Gale-Multz
 

Ross, when these came out they were DC only, which is the version I have. Since that time I saw they made a DCC version and there was supposedly an adapter to make it DCC is no longer available, and not on their site. That's why I wanted to know about using the PSX-AR circuit.

Neal



On Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:34 AM, "'Ross Kudlick' cnjross2000@... [WiringForDCC]" wrote:


 
Neal,
Is electrical reversing built-in to your turntable?  Most manufactured turntables do.
This is from the instructions for the Walthers 90’ Built-Up Turntable model 933-2840:
“Installing the Pit
Your new turntable automatically reverses track polarity when turned.  .  .  .”
Regards,
Ross Kudlick
 
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:24 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version
 
 
Hello everyone. 
 
I have the Walthers 90' HO scale Turntable (assembled version). I'm using the NCE system, and I want to wire the turntable. I know there will be some type of reversing scenario as the turntable switches position.
 
Can I use a PSX-AR auto reverser and wire that for the turntable, so when the engine leaves to other tracks there won't be a short? In addition there will be isolation from the rest of the layout both rails will have insulated joiners on them. There will one track from the layout leading to the turntable...
 
Any feedback and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks!
 
Neal M.

Posted by: multzy@...



Re: Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version

Ross Kudlick
 

Neal,

Is electrical reversing built-in to your turntable?  Most manufactured turntables do.

This is from the instructions for the Walthers 90’ Built-Up Turntable model 933-2840:

“Installing the Pit

Your new turntable automatically reverses track polarity when turned.  .  .  .”

Regards,

Ross Kudlick

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:24 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version

 

 

Hello everyone. 

 

I have the Walthers 90' HO scale Turntable (assembled version). I'm using the NCE system, and I want to wire the turntable. I know there will be some type of reversing scenario as the turntable switches position.

 

Can I use a PSX-AR auto reverser and wire that for the turntable, so when the engine leaves to other tracks there won't be a short? In addition there will be isolation from the rest of the layout both rails will have insulated joiners on them. There will one track from the layout leading to the turntable...

 

Any feedback and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks!

 

Neal M.


Posted by: multzy@...


Re: Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Just wire up a PXAR to the turntable rails and you are good to go.

DonV

On Jun 11, 2015, at 8:23 AM, multzy@yahoo.com<mailto:multzy@yahoo.com> [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:




Hello everyone.


I have the Walthers 90' HO scale Turntable (assembled version). I'm using the NCE system, and I want to wire the turntable. I know there will be some type of reversing scenario as the turntable switches position.


Can I use a PSX-AR auto reverser and wire that for the turntable, so when the engine leaves to other tracks there won't be a short? In addition there will be isolation from the rest of the layout both rails will have insulated joiners on them. There will one track from the layout leading to the turntable...


Any feedback and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks!


Neal M.


Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version

Cheryl Gale-Multz
 

Hello everyone. 


I have the Walthers 90' HO scale Turntable (assembled version). I'm using the NCE system, and I want to wire the turntable. I know there will be some type of reversing scenario as the turntable switches position.


Can I use a PSX-AR auto reverser and wire that for the turntable, so when the engine leaves to other tracks there won't be a short? In addition there will be isolation from the rest of the layout both rails will have insulated joiners on them. There will one track from the layout leading to the turntable...


Any feedback and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks!


Neal M.


Re: Hot Controller

Mark Gurries
 

Actually it does.  There is no base unit!

The NCE PowerCab is the following all built inside the hand held unit.

1) DCC command Station
2) Booster.
3) ProCab Cab.

The only thing not inside the PowerCab is the PowerSupply itself.

On Jun 4, 2015, at 3:11 AM, 'Glenn' ghazel@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Mike you did no mention if you had the wireless or wired system.

 

But either way the fact the controller is getting hot has nothing to do with the power on the rails. That is controlled by the base unit.

 

I would contact NCE: https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201916139-Phone-Numbers

 

In the meantime pull all locos and lighted cars from the layout and use a volt meter to check for a minor short. A voltage reading should be between 12 and 18V. If less you have a short. If you have an ammeter use that is should be at zero. If you do have a reading, remove remaining rolling stock. Beyond that you may have a short in your wiring or track work.

 

Glenn

 


From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 16:17
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Hot Controller

 




Greetings,

A couple of months ago I got a new Power Cab set. I did not read the manual, only the quick start guide.

We ran trains, 2 locos at a time, just fine for awhile. Then the controller started getting hot, especially near the bottom. So I programmed it to show the current draw. It was showing 3.2 amps, or so. I thought that this was about what was expected for two locos, but then... I looked at the wall wart power supply that came with the set. It is labeled 1.44 amps.  That is one problem right there! However, I would think that under these conditions, the wall wart would get hot, and it dos, but not the controller. The other thought I had was that the controller was supposed to shut down for anything over 3 amps. So, why did it keep running? So today, running one loco, the current reads 0.16 amps, but the controller still gets very warm. So, did I cook something into partial failure? What about getting a higher power - say 5 amps - wall wart to power the Power Cab. Then rely on it to shut down for over current?

Thoughts? Where should I go from here for this set?

Mike G.

 



Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com




Re: Hot Controller

Glenn
 

Mike you did no mention if you had the wireless or wired system.

 

But either way the fact the controller is getting hot has nothing to do with the power on the rails. That is controlled by the base unit.

 

I would contact NCE: https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201916139-Phone-Numbers

 

In the meantime pull all locos and lighted cars from the layout and use a volt meter to check for a minor short. A voltage reading should be between 12 and 18V. If less you have a short. If you have an ammeter use that is should be at zero. If you do have a reading, remove remaining rolling stock. Beyond that you may have a short in your wiring or track work.

 

Glenn

 


From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 16:17
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Hot Controller

 




Greetings,

A couple of months ago I got a new Power Cab set. I did not read the manual, only the quick start guide.

We ran trains, 2 locos at a time, just fine for awhile. Then the controller started getting hot, especially near the bottom. So I programmed it to show the current draw. It was showing 3.2 amps, or so. I thought that this was about what was expected for two locos, but then... I looked at the wall wart power supply that came with the set. It is labeled 1.44 amps.  That is one problem right there! However, I would think that under these conditions, the wall wart would get hot, and it dos, but not the controller. The other thought I had was that the controller was supposed to shut down for anything over 3 amps. So, why did it keep running? So today, running one loco, the current reads 0.16 amps, but the controller still gets very warm. So, did I cook something into partial failure? What about getting a higher power - say 5 amps - wall wart to power the Power Cab. Then rely on it to shut down for over current?

Thoughts? Where should I go from here for this set?

Mike G.

 



Re: Hot Controller

emrldsky
 

Thanks Don.

I’m going there…



Peace,

Mike G.





From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 1:59 PM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Hot Controller





Mike G,

1. The NCE PowerCab and the Power supply that came with it are a mated pair. Despite what it says on the nameplate, the power supply is the protective part of the set and will shut-down if/when the Power Cab becomes overloaded. The self protective mechanism is in the power supply. So DO NOT substitute the wall-wart power supply with something else.

2. You are pushing the design limit of the PowerCab if output current to the track is indeed 3.2 amps. If one loco draws 0mly 0.16 amps this means that the other loco draws over 3 amps! Time to get that loco replace/fixed or it is time to upgrade with an SB5 add-on.

3. Hot is a matter of perception. If you can still hold on to it, it will probably keep working.

4. Glad to help, but You should be asking questions about NCE products in the NCE forum.



DonV



From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 3:17 PM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Hot Controller









Greetings,

A couple of months ago I got a new Power Cab set. I did not read the manual, only the quick start guide.

We ran trains, 2 locos at a time, just fine for awhile. Then the controller started getting hot, especially near the bottom. So I programmed it to show the current draw. It was showing 3.2 amps, or so. I thought that this was about what was expected for two locos, but then... I looked at the wall wart power supply that came with the set. It is labeled 1.44 amps. That is one problem right there! However, I would think that under these conditions, the wall wart would get hot, and it dos, but not the controller. The other thought I had was that the controller was supposed to shut down for anything over 3 amps. So, why did it keep running? So today, running one loco, the current reads 0.16 amps, but the controller still gets very warm. So, did I cook something into partial failure? What about getting a higher power - say 5 amps - wall wart to power the Power Cab. Then rely on it to shut down for over current?

Thoughts? Where should I go from here for this set?

Mike G.













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Hot Controller

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Mike G,

1.       The NCE PowerCab and the Power supply that came with it are a mated pair. Despite what it says on the nameplate, the power supply is the protective part of the set and will shut-down if/when the Power Cab becomes overloaded. The self protective mechanism is in the power supply. So DO NOT substitute the wall-wart power supply with something else.

2.       You are pushing the design limit of the PowerCab if output current to the track is indeed 3.2 amps. If one loco draws 0mly 0.16 amps this means that the other loco draws over 3 amps! Time to get that loco replace/fixed or it is time to upgrade with an SB5 add-on.

3.       Hot is a matter of perception. If you can still hold on to it, it will probably keep working.

4.       Glad to help, but You should be asking questions about NCE products in the NCE forum.

 

DonV  

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 3:17 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Hot Controller

 




Greetings,

A couple of months ago I got a new Power Cab set. I did not read the manual, only the quick start guide.

We ran trains, 2 locos at a time, just fine for awhile. Then the controller started getting hot, especially near the bottom. So I programmed it to show the current draw. It was showing 3.2 amps, or so. I thought that this was about what was expected for two locos, but then... I looked at the wall wart power supply that came with the set. It is labeled 1.44 amps.  That is one problem right there! However, I would think that under these conditions, the wall wart would get hot, and it dos, but not the controller. The other thought I had was that the controller was supposed to shut down for anything over 3 amps. So, why did it keep running? So today, running one loco, the current reads 0.16 amps, but the controller still gets very warm. So, did I cook something into partial failure? What about getting a higher power - say 5 amps - wall wart to power the Power Cab. Then rely on it to shut down for over current?

Thoughts? Where should I go from here for this set?

Mike G.

 





Hot Controller

emrldsky
 

Greetings,

A couple of months ago I got a new Power Cab set. I did not read the manual, only the quick start guide.

We ran trains, 2 locos at a time, just fine for awhile. Then the controller started getting hot, especially near the bottom. So I programmed it to show the current draw. It was showing 3.2 amps, or so. I thought that this was about what was expected for two locos, but then... I looked at the wall wart power supply that came with the set. It is labeled 1.44 amps.  That is one problem right there! However, I would think that under these conditions, the wall wart would get hot, and it dos, but not the controller. The other thought I had was that the controller was supposed to shut down for anything over 3 amps. So, why did it keep running? So today, running one loco, the current reads 0.16 amps, but the controller still gets very warm. So, did I cook something into partial failure? What about getting a higher power - say 5 amps - wall wart to power the Power Cab. Then rely on it to shut down for over current?

Thoughts? Where should I go from here for this set?

Mike G.



Re: NCE SB5 and cab 04

yorkshiredale@...
 

My sons layout is in a  different room to mine I can see the scenario narrow gauge European whistle versus GE Dash 8-40B LOL.
Dale


Re: NCE SB5 and cab 04

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Yes… you can purchase an NCE SB5 and Cab04 separately. The SB5 (Smart Booster, 5 amp) assumes the role of command station and booster, similar to the DCS100. You don’t need a PowerCab. The SB5 also includes a 120V plug-in power supply. The Cab04 should plug right in to the SB5 cab bus socket with an extra long RJ style walk-around cable, or you may want to add one or two UTPs along the fascia. [The SB5 has a few operating limits, such as no programming track control. That is why it costs less than other NCE command station/boosters.]

See https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200913385-SB5-Smartbooster-for-Powercab

 

I saw your note about the Digitrax DCS100 + UT4. That too looks like a good combination. But you also need a remote power supply/transformer. Could end up being pricy.

Since you already have a Digitrax system a minimum cost solution would be to piggy-back your son’s layout on to yours using your command station & booster to control & power his track from the UT4.  A simple DPDT switch could be used to flip the track power from your layout to his to isolate them if you need that.

 

Cheers

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2015 5:47 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] NCE SB5 and cab 04

 




Can you purchase seperatly an NCE SB5, a power supply and the Cab04 to be used as a stand-alone system without a PowerCab, my son has deformed hands and can only use hand controllers with a large speed control dial. I could buy a Power cab but the hand controller would be no good for Him to use . I can program the locos on my JMRI Digitrax layout.

 





NCE SB5 and cab 04

yorkshiredale@...
 

Can you purchase seperatly an NCE SB5, a power supply and the Cab04 to be used as a stand-alone system without a PowerCab, my son has deformed hands and can only use hand controllers with a large speed control dial. I could buy a Power cab but the hand controller would be no good for Him to use . I can program the locos on my JMRI Digitrax layout.



Re: Short in design?

Robert Morrison <Robmorrison@...>
 

Jon,

Since you called the switches Insulfrog, I assume they are Peco.
Normally there should be no problem, BUT, wide wheels can bridge the gap between the two frog rails where they are very close together; there is a very thin bit of plastic between those two pieces of rail. The problem causes a short across those two rails if both are powered because they are opposite “polarity”, being fed from the rails beyond the switch itself.

Peco recommends in the instructions to put insulated rail joiners on one of the frog rails where it meets the continuing rail.

I put insulating joiners on both rails of the frog. That eliminates the shorting problem.

Some people paint the top of the frog with clear paint, and that will work for a while but it will wear off.

Hope to have been of some help.

Rob Morrison


Re: Short in design?

dvollrath@...
 

If all the turnouts are true Peco insulfrog interconnecting them as shown should not cause any problems. However, I would suspect that the crossing you show may have introduced the issue, depending on how it is wired rail-rail. Inspect it carefully or temporarily disconnect the lower track section in your drawing to see if the short goes away. If the crossing is not the problem, then you need to 1) re-check all your track feeders for a polarity screw-up. If that doesn't solve the problem 2) re-inspect each track switch to make sure none of them is a 'power routing' type.


DonV

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