Date   
Re: Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version

Cheryl Gale-Multz
 

Ross, when these came out they were DC only, which is the version I have. Since that time I saw they made a DCC version and there was supposedly an adapter to make it DCC is no longer available, and not on their site. That's why I wanted to know about using the PSX-AR circuit.

Neal



On Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:34 AM, "'Ross Kudlick' cnjross2000@... [WiringForDCC]" wrote:


 
Neal,
Is electrical reversing built-in to your turntable?  Most manufactured turntables do.
This is from the instructions for the Walthers 90’ Built-Up Turntable model 933-2840:
“Installing the Pit
Your new turntable automatically reverses track polarity when turned.  .  .  .”
Regards,
Ross Kudlick
 
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:24 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version
 
 
Hello everyone. 
 
I have the Walthers 90' HO scale Turntable (assembled version). I'm using the NCE system, and I want to wire the turntable. I know there will be some type of reversing scenario as the turntable switches position.
 
Can I use a PSX-AR auto reverser and wire that for the turntable, so when the engine leaves to other tracks there won't be a short? In addition there will be isolation from the rest of the layout both rails will have insulated joiners on them. There will one track from the layout leading to the turntable...
 
Any feedback and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks!
 
Neal M.

Posted by: multzy@...


Re: Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version

Michael Sherbak
 


On Thursday, June 11, 2015, Neal Multz multzy@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

Ross, when these came out they were DC only, which is the version I have. Since that time I saw they made a DCC version and there was supposedly an adapter to make it DCC is no longer available, and not on their site. That's why I wanted to know about using the PSX-AR circuit.

Neal



On Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:34 AM, "'Ross Kudlick' cnjross2000@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:


 
Neal,
Is electrical reversing built-in to your turntable?  Most manufactured turntables do.
This is from the instructions for the Walthers 90’ Built-Up Turntable model 933-2840:
“Installing the Pit
Your new turntable automatically reverses track polarity when turned.  .  .  .”
Regards,
Ross Kudlick
 
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:24 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version
 
 
Hello everyone. 
 
I have the Walthers 90' HO scale Turntable (assembled version). I'm using the NCE system, and I want to wire the turntable. I know there will be some type of reversing scenario as the turntable switches position.
 
Can I use a PSX-AR auto reverser and wire that for the turntable, so when the engine leaves to other tracks there won't be a short? In addition there will be isolation from the rest of the layout both rails will have insulated joiners on them. There will one track from the layout leading to the turntable...
 
Any feedback and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks!
 
Neal M.

Posted by: multzy@...




--
Michael Sherbak

Re: Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version

Cheryl Gale-Multz
 

Thanks Michael!

Neal



On Thursday, June 11, 2015 2:52 PM, "Michael Sherbak msherbak11@... [WiringForDCC]" wrote:


 

Here's a conversion from mark hurries website

On Thursday, June 11, 2015, Neal Multz multzy@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 
Ross, when these came out they were DC only, which is the version I have. Since that time I saw they made a DCC version and there was supposedly an adapter to make it DCC is no longer available, and not on their site. That's why I wanted to know about using the PSX-AR circuit.

Neal



On Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:34 AM, "'Ross Kudlick' cnjross2000@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:


 
Neal,
Is electrical reversing built-in to your turntable?  Most manufactured turntables do.
This is from the instructions for the Walthers 90’ Built-Up Turntable model 933-2840:
“Installing the Pit
Your new turntable automatically reverses track polarity when turned.  .  .  .”
Regards,
Ross Kudlick
 
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:24 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version
 
 
Hello everyone. 
 
I have the Walthers 90' HO scale Turntable (assembled version). I'm using the NCE system, and I want to wire the turntable. I know there will be some type of reversing scenario as the turntable switches position.
 
Can I use a PSX-AR auto reverser and wire that for the turntable, so when the engine leaves to other tracks there won't be a short? In addition there will be isolation from the rest of the layout both rails will have insulated joiners on them. There will one track from the layout leading to the turntable...
 
Any feedback and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks!
 
Neal M.

Posted by: multzy@...




--
Michael Sherbak


Re: Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version

Ross Kudlick
 

Neal,

The built-in power reversing will work with either DC (polarity reversing) or DCC (phase reversing).  An additional reversing module (or DPDT switch) is not required.  DC and DCC both require the same electrical switching for any track reversing section.

I see that Michael Sherbak has posted a link to instructions for converting the turntable control to DCC vice the original Walthers control panel.

Kind regards,

Ross Kudlick

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:40 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version

 

 

Ross, when these came out they were DC only, which is the version I have. Since that time I saw they made a DCC version and there was supposedly an adapter to make it DCC is no longer available, and not on their site. That's why I wanted to know about using the PSX-AR circuit.

 

Neal

Re: Wiring the Walthers 90 Turntable - DC version

John White
 

I have the Walthers 90 ft Turntable and used the Digitrax AR-1, which I also use for my Y track. They both respond very well with no issues. All I did was isolated the Y track at the Y turnout, the rest takes cars of itself.
JT

Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points

Marvin Pankaskie
 

After 2 years of successfully running a mid-size layout with all Atlas track
and turnouts, I have just recently noticed that when a locomotive enters a
turnout from the points end of the turnout, the loco stalls when it is over
the frog and my circuit breaker resets, indicating a short has occurred
somewhere within the turnout track. After the circuit breaker resets and the
loco moves away, it runs fine until it hits another turnout, although not
all turnouts are affected. I have tried cleaning the track, cleaning the
loco wheels, and trying other locos (3 out of 5 locos experience this
problem). If I run the locos in the opposite direction the short does not
occur. I have not yet tried to bend or adjust the points, or do anything
else to the turnout rails except clean them.



Can you suggest why I am just now experiencing this problem? Temperature or
humidity? Track voltage (I am running with an NCE ProCab + 5 Amp Command
Station)? Track alignment?



Can you suggest a solution to my problem?



Thank you kindly,



Marvin Pankaskie

Rochester, NY 14450

Re: Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points

Bill><>
 

plastic frogs or the newer metal frogs?
Bill
 

Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2015 2:59 AM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points
 
 



After 2 years of successfully running a mid-size layout with all Atlas track
and turnouts, I have just recently noticed that when a locomotive enters a
turnout from the points end of the turnout, the loco stalls when it is over
the frog and my circuit breaker resets, indicating a short has occurred
somewhere within the turnout track. After the circuit breaker resets and the
loco moves away, it runs fine until it hits another turnout, although not
all turnouts are affected. I have tried cleaning the track, cleaning the
loco wheels, and trying other locos (3 out of 5 locos experience this
problem). If I run the locos in the opposite direction the short does not
occur. I have not yet tried to bend or adjust the points, or do anything
else to the turnout rails except clean them.

Can you suggest why I am just now experiencing this problem? Temperature or
humidity? Track voltage (I am running with an NCE ProCab + 5 Amp Command
Station)? Track alignment?

Can you suggest a solution to my problem?

Thank you kindly,

Marvin Pankaskie

Rochester, NY 14450

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points

redking56@...
 

Marvin, let me ask you for some clarification on a few issues.

You are indicating that the shorts are occurring on more than one turnout and that 3 out of 5 of your locomotives are affected by turnout shorts.  Is that correct?  It isn't just occurring on one turnout?

Since you mention a circuit breaker, are the affected turnouts all in the same power district?

Are there any reverse loops or reversing sections on your layout?

What types of locomotives are affected by the shorts?

Typically, when momentary shorts occur on a turnout, the cause is a wheel bridging the gap between two rails of opposite polarity.  But if shorts are occurring on multiple turnouts and more than one locomotive is affected, the problem becomes more complex to solve.

Rich




---In WiringForDCC@..., <thealchemist@...> wrote :

After 2 years of successfully running a mid-size layout with all Atlas track
and turnouts, I have just recently noticed that when a locomotive enters a
turnout from the points end of the turnout, the loco stalls when it is over
the frog and my circuit breaker resets, indicating a short has occurred
somewhere within the turnout track. After the circuit breaker resets and the
loco moves away, it runs fine until it hits another turnout, although not
all turnouts are affected. I have tried cleaning the track, cleaning the
loco wheels, and trying other locos (3 out of 5 locos experience this
problem). If I run the locos in the opposite direction the short does not
occur. I have not yet tried to bend or adjust the points, or do anything
else to the turnout rails except clean them.

Re: Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points

Paul O
 

Marvin, look at the “Insulfrog1” picture in the ‘Photos’ section of this group.

 

Four ways to fix this:

1.      Cut the gaps as shown in the photo.

2.      Put some nail polish on the rails where they are close together. Easy & Quick, but it wears off.

3.      Add about a .005 shim to the guard rails to force the loco wheels away from the frog.

4.      Check the gauge of the wheels.

 

Paul O

Re: Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points

redking56@...
 

For what it's worth, Marvin said that he has all Atlas turnouts which have dead metal frogs, not Peco Insulfrogs which have plastic frogs.

Rich


---In WiringForDCC@..., <pomilian@...> wrote :

Marvin, look at the “Insulfrog1” picture in the ‘Photos’ section of this group.

 

Four ways to fix this:

1.      Cut the gaps as shown in the photo.

2.      Put some nail polish on the rails where they are close together. Easy & Quick, but it wears off.

3.      Add about a .005 shim to the guard rails to force the loco wheels away from the frog.

4.      Check the gauge of the wheels.

 

Paul O

Re: Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points

Paul O
 

Rich, it’s not the frog that’s the problem, it’s the wheel width shorting across both frog rails at the end of the frog.

That’s the reason for cutting the gap; they’re a bit farther apart then. Had to do that on a number of my Atlas turnouts.

 

Paul O

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2015 10:04 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points

 

 

For what it's worth, Marvin said that he has all Atlas turnouts which have dead metal frogs, not Peco Insulfrogs which have plastic frogs.

 

Rich



---In WiringForDCC@..., <pomilian@...> wrote :

Marvin, look at the “Insulfrog1” picture in the ‘Photos’ section of this group.

 

Four ways to fix this:

1.      Cut the gaps as shown in the photo.

2.      Put some nail polish on the rails where they are close together. Easy & Quick, but it wears off.

3.      Add about a .005 shim to the guard rails to force the loco wheels away from the frog.

4.      Check the gauge of the wheels.

 

Paul O

Re: Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points

redking56@...
 

Paul, I realize that, but I just wanted to clarify that the turnouts were Atlas, not Peco.

What is perplexing about Marvin's situation is that multiple turnouts have suddenly failed, not just one.

In my experience, Peco turnouts fail because of the tight tolerances, but i have never had that problem with Atlas turnouts which have wider gaps.

Rich

Re: Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points

Paul O
 

OK, I just picked on that photo because I knew where it was and it showed what I believe may be Marvin’s problem.

Wheel gauge and tread width play a factor. Also wearing of the plastic guard rails (which are way too wide anyway).

 

Paul O

 

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2015 10:20 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Re: Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points

 

 

Paul, I realize that, but I just wanted to clarify that the turnouts were Atlas, not Peco.

 

What is perplexing about Marvin's situation is that multiple turnouts have suddenly failed, not just one.

 

In my experience, Peco turnouts fail because of the tight tolerances, but i have never had that problem with Atlas turnouts which have wider gaps.

 

Rich

Re: Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points

Mark Gurries
 

We cannot be sure what the material the frog is made out of becuase Marvin has not stated which series of Atlas turnouts he is using.  Code 100 snap track turnout have plastic frogs that DO wear down and short at the point end of the frog.  The nail polish is a temporary solution that will need to be re-applied periodically over time.  

Compared to plastic frogs, any of the metal frog Atlas turnouts should not have a big problem of wear over time and not cause any shorting at the point of the frog assuming we are talking about electrically dead frogs.

The only long term solution is to replace the turnout with one that has a metal frog.

On Jun 13, 2015, at 7:03 PM, redking56@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

For what it's worth, Marvin said that he has all Atlas turnouts which have dead metal frogs, not Peco Insulfrogs which have plastic frogs.

Rich


---In WiringForDCC@..., wrote :

Marvin, look at the “Insulfrog1” picture in the ‘Photos’ section of this group.

 

Four ways to fix this:

1.      Cut the gaps as shown in the photo.

2.      Put some nail polish on the rails where they are close together. Easy & Quick, but it wears off.

3.      Add about a .005 shim to the guard rails to force the loco wheels away from the frog.

4.      Check the gauge of the wheels.

 

Paul O


Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Hooking up a CS02 and a PS2012

Leonard Davis
 

I am sure this has been discussed at length. I looked for a search category but could not fine one. I am considering using a NCE CS02 with a Digtrax PS2012 power transformer. Originally I was considering a NCE SB-5 and a DB-5. There is only $25.00 dollars between the two set-ups. I only need six cabs and ten amps max but for only twenty-five dollars more I get full capability from NCE and twenty amps of power.


 Has any one used this type of system and how well did it work?


Thank You,


Leonard Lee Davis

Re: Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points

redking56@...
 

Speaking of Marvin, where is he?

Rich


---In WiringForDCC@..., <gurriesm@...> wrote :

We cannot be sure what the material the frog is made out of becuase Marvin has not stated which series of Atlas turnouts he is using.  Code 100 snap track turnout have plastic frogs that DO wear down and short at the point end of the frog.  The nail polish is a temporary solution that will need to be re-applied periodically over time.  

Compared to plastic frogs, any of the metal frog Atlas turnouts should not have a big problem of wear over time and not cause any shorting at the point of the frog assuming we are talking about electrically dead frogs.

The only long term solution is to replace the turnout with one that has a metal frog.



Re: Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points

Paul O
 

Probably fixing his turnouts. J

 

Paul O

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 4:52 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points

 

 

Speaking of Marvin, where is he?

 

Rich

Re: Hooking up a CS02 and a PS2012

Mark Gurries
 

On Jun 14, 2015, at 12:22 PM, lleeblues@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

I am sure this has been discussed at length. I looked for a search category but could not fine one. I am considering using a NCE CS02 with a Digtrax PS2012 power transformer.
Nope, not a common question at all as stated.

The NCE CS02 is a command station only. No booster output (not track connection). Using the PS2012 is way overkill for the CS02 and it will still not allow you to run any trains.

Do you have any Digitrax boosters? You can use the NCE CS02 to drive Digitrax booster and use the Digitrax PS2012 as the power supply for those boosters.

Given all NCE DCC systems are being supplied with their own NCE power supplies going forward, the PS2012 will not be of any use to the NCE system.

Originally I was considering a NCE SB-5 and a DB-5. There is only $25.00 dollars between the two set-ups.
The SB5 is a 5Amp booster AND a PowerCab command station in a small box. It is the expansion system for the Entry Level PowerCab system. By

The DB5 is the expansion booster of the SB5. It does not contain a command station.

The SB5 does not contain a programming track function. The PowerCab system does.

Normally you buy a PowerCab system and if you need more cabs and/or higher power, you purchase the SB5 for it.
The combination of PowerCab + SB5 gives you:

1) 5Amp system
2) 6 Cab operation,
3) Programming Track capability (via the PowerCab)
4) PowerCab walkaround capability like any other cab.

The following links will help you sort out all the NCE System capabilities.

https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/nce-info/nce-dcc-systems

https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/nce-info/nce-dcc-systems/technical-spec-comparisons

I only need six cabs and ten amps max but for only twenty-five dollars more I get full capability from NCE and twenty amps of power
DCC Power is deceptive thing to figure out. There are two parts to it.

A) How Much Power do you need?

The current you need to run a layout does not depend on how many engines you have on the layout. Engines that are not moving, do not consume any current of any consequence.

Only engines that are moving consume current. So how many amps you need will depend on the following.

1) How many trains will be running on the layout at the same time.
2) What scale are you in.
3) How many engines will belong to a typical moving train.

B) How do you add power to the layout?

Booster are not wired in parallel. Buying two 5Amp booster does NOT give you 10 Amps. It simply give you two different "power districts" on the layout with each having a maximum of 5 amps. Power Districts are a group of tracks that are wired together to a common booster or DCC circuit breaker.

The only way to get 10Amps is to buy a 10Amp booster. But 10Amp booster are only needed for O scale or larger gauge.

To figure out how many booster power you need, you first have to answer how much power do you need in question 1 above.

You may want to do some reading here:

https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/nmra-dcc-clinic-pdf-files

Start with the DCC basics presentation. It can help you sort out all the common DCC questions.

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Re: Hooking up a CS02 and a PS2012

Leonard Davis
 

Thank you Mark for clarifying that point. The PS2012 is a power supply not a booster and I can't stack NCE 5 amp boosters to get 10 amps. I did not give enough information. The Chaffee Branch is in O scale. Most of the locomotives will have low current hi precision can motors (Fahallhaber). Two Pittman 8500 series motors (Will be changed out soon). One Pittman running on layout now.  No more than six locomotives at any one time will be running on layout and four cabs, with eight locomotives in waiting. Average power for a train is two to four units.  No more than twenty-four locos total. All with sound. The layout is basically a folded dog bone for the mainline with a branch line attached. So given what your saying if I run six locos (6x1.5a =9a) I will need a 10 amp booster for the layout. So it would seem that I should just get the NCE 10 amp Pro system and use the Power Cab at the work bench.

Again, Thank You,

L.D.


Re: Short in Atlas Turnout Frog/Points

Marvin Pankaskie
 

Thank you to everyone who made suggestions. I am happy to say that my trains
and turnouts are running normal now. Here are the steps I have taken:





1. I recently rewired my layout and installed an EB-1 circuit breaker
using factory defaults. I reversed the wiring and set the CVs according to
Mark Gurries' suggestions. This in itself might have been the problem.


2. I also checked/rewired some of the track feeders to make sure the
polarity was consistent.


3. I cleaned/re-cleaned the track and turnouts and cleaned all the
locomotive wheels (I use the Woodland Scenic Tidy Track and Roto Cleaner
tools), then applied some clear enamel to the frogs as per several
suggestions on other discussion boards.


4. I found one of my locomotives had a defective wheel set that was
causing it to derail even on curves. This is the one I was using for testing
and will take it to my local store for repair.


5. I have also been re-leveling my layout so that might have caused some
of the track and turnouts to bend just enough to short out. I have inspected
them and they seem to be aligned OK now.


6. The temperature and humidity in the basement where I have my layout may
have contributed to some track expansion/contraction. I understand that the
Rochester winter played havoc on the local model train club too.





Thanks again for all your suggestions.





Marvin Pankaskie


Rochester, NY 14450