Date   

Can an auto reverser be between two boosters?

Lee Hanna
 

I basically understand how auto reversing circuits work. However in all the applications I have seen they are 1 power district of a booster with “one way in and one way out” (An eastbound train comes to the junction and could continue east, but instead backs around the tail of the wye (north) so it can then head back west.  That north tail usually dead ends. 


Now, what if the tail of the wye continues north and that track eventually connects to a track powered by another booster?  Is that possible? Are there any pit-falls?

Thanks much for your help.

Lee


Re: The Post Radio Shack World/lets end this!

William Dixon Robertson III
 

Making it

 


Re: The Post Radio Shack World/lets end this!

Paul Killoy <galt1x@...>
 

Fry’s is still available if there is one in your area.
 
Paul K.
 

Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2015 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] The Post Radio Shack World/lets end this!
 


I believe you will find that Radio Shack is the only one open on Sunday.  Maybe in your area you have more luck.

Although we had Barbay Electronics and Cumberland Electronics in the area, (Cumberland might still exist) they were open sometimes till noon on Saturday and never on Sunday.

I have needed solder, a switch, wire, resistors, a new soldering iron (for sure!), an IC socket on Saturday night.  Poor planning maybe,  or bad luck (something broke).

Unfortunately this is the way of the world.  First the big box stores moved in, and then online purchasing.  Local stores close up and everything is a week away.

As in O'Brother Where Art Thou,  a Scientific Anomaly...two weeks from everywhere.

bob h

PS. RS RIP.

---- Original Message ----
From: "'Steve Haas' Goatfisher2@... [WiringForDCC]"
Sent: 2/8/2015 6:18:21 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] The Post Radio Shack World/lets end this!

 

<<So which one of those stores can you walk into TODAY and pick up a switch, resistor, wire, etc?>>

While one can’t _physically_ “walk into” the large electronic suppliers as one could walk into the local Radio Shack,  if one can plan ahead, whatever one needs can be ordered without getting out of one’s chair.  Pricing will usually be better than what one could get than at Radio Shack, with the prospect of lower prices for slightly larger quantities.  A little bit of advance projects for your various projects can save large amounts of time and money if you plan  ahead. 

If you do need it “today”, check out the yellow pages or run an online search for electronic supply houses in your area.  There should usually be one or more not too far away.  Locally here on the East Side of Seattle, we use   http://www.vetco.net/ in Bellevue.  Another poster has already responded with the name of a store in their area.  Do a Google search with  the keywords “electronic supply yourcityname here” and see what pops up.  If your area is large enough to support a Radio Shack, the odds are pretty good you will find a local electronic supply store equally accessible to you.

Best regards,

Steve

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA


Re: Kato Unitrack feeders

marcdecapri@...
 

I am considering going with ready made Kato Unitrack feeders at every splice > at least on my test layout.
Why?
My N Scale Diesels...all of them find no issues with my track layout ability - even with feeders every three feet.
However? N Scale Steam is a whole other matter.
=====
Perhaps I should mention first that I own several if perhaps not all of the N Scale Steam Locomotives ever produced...even back into the 1970's when German Made prototypes were cheap.  Many of them have been reworked into fine working models...but none of them till recently would run without an issue for longer than an hour. The goal was 8 hours.
Today, I have one which has passed my test...To run glitch free in DCC for over 8 hours pulling 8 cars > as have many if not all of my running Diesels. 
Expecting the same performance from my N Scale Steam as from any of my Diesels?
Not exactly.
What I found with my Kato Unitrack, where my Diesel fleet left off, my one JDM Kato 4-6-2 began. At first there were still track issues....Once I upped the quality of my track laying on my test layout...the Kato JDM locomotive began to run flawlessly. Then not too much of a surprise here...Some of my other N Scale Steam also began to perform better.
Here's the thing....When a locomotive relies on current travel from the front of the steam locomotive to the back of the tender with helper points all in between....Every bit of track needs to show current, and be CLEAN. Further those little height differences and even spacing between the rail on the curves begins to come into play. I am in the process of reworking my test layout.
Recently, I came to the epiphany that I didn't know enough about track laying. So instead, i stopped nearly all production on my main layout, till I learn better.
Mark


Re: Kato Unitrack feeders

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Plenty of pro & con discussion on track feeders here and on the Yahoo NCE forum, JB. Some swear the Kato connectors work great … Others swear at them. Soldering feeders right to the rail is almost foolproof. It depends on your environment and expectations of long lifetime reliability. Soldering right to the unitrack rail is fiddly but not impossible.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 11:33 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Kato Unitrack feeders

 




I am using n scale code 80 flex-track and will install feeders in every piece. I am also using some Kato uni-track straight pieces (that was given to me) that lines up with the flex on cork quite nicely. Should I be installing feeders for each piece? I guess the easy answer is always put feeders in every individual piece of track. I was just wondering if anyone has experience wiring this Kato track wired for DCC.

JB





Re: Kato Unitrack feeders

John M Wallis
 

Hi JB:

 

Lots of us use Unitrack exclusively, such as for T-TRAK modules. The UniJoiners that connect two pieces of Unitrack make very good contact. Thus you don’t need a feeder in every piece of track. Going 3 feet or so between feeders should not be a problem.

 

As well as using Terminal UniJoiners or the special terminal track section, you can solder feeders to Unitrack rails just like you do to Code 80 flextrack. Just be a little extra careful so you do not soften the plastic base at the point where you are soldering. Using a little resin flux on the rail and tinning the feeder wire before soldering to the rail helps make the connection faster and thus less heat is transmitted to the base.

 

Regards,

 

 

John Wallis

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 12:33 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Kato Unitrack feeders

 

 

I am using n scale code 80 flex-track and will install feeders in every piece. I am also using some Kato uni-track straight pieces (that was given to me) that lines up with the flex on cork quite nicely. Should I be installing feeders for each piece? I guess the easy answer is always put feeders in every individual piece of track. I was just wondering if anyone has experience wiring this Kato track wired for DCC.

JB


Kato Unitrack feeders

JBJudy
 

I am using n scale code 80 flex-track and will install feeders in every piece. I am also using some Kato uni-track straight pieces (that was given to me) that lines up with the flex on cork quite nicely. Should I be installing feeders for each piece? I guess the easy answer is always put feeders in every individual piece of track. I was just wondering if anyone has experience wiring this Kato track wired for DCC.

JB


Re: Large scale wiring/ code 332 rail

wirefordcc
 


I'm sorry I don't have more time right now.  I do need to add what I have learned in the past few years to my DCC in the Garden section.  I use code 250 nickel-silver rail.


Briefly, I find that picking up power from the track, aside from a quick cleaning, actually works very well.  Most G-scale locomotives have better pick-ups on their wheels, plus LGB's sliders, makes the locomotives reliable.


I built my garden RR before twisting wires and adding terminations was in vogue.  After these techniques became the conventional wisdom, I went around my 35'x40' pike with a scope and didn't find that I had any problems.


I echo the use of rail clamps.



More, later, when I have some time...


Allan

Wiring For DCC



Re: Large scale wiring/ code 332 rail

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

But if one follows the recommended practices… one should not need an o’scope.

Like using a cell phone, DCC is supposed to be ‘simple’. And usually it is unless something unexpected goes wrong.

That’s when you need to think about how it is supposed to work find out what is really happening.

We already know that poor electrical connections are the bane of DCC. All the other problems break down to that being a major cause or the user doing something that doesn’t make sense. Following the recommended practices on this site will usually resolve most problems.

 

But, yet… Real engineers are curious bunch.  If all else fails… RTFM.

 

DonV   

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2015 2:10 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Large scale wiring/ code 332 rail

 




Don,

You pretty much listed up the first 5 commandments of DCC very nicely!

As for decoders, one gets what one pays for. I personally have mostly all ZIMO except for 1 QSI. I started going cheap but realized all the drawbacks.

As for spikes a PC based O-scope is a good investment. I think most could learn how to use it without a painful learning curve, no matter what scale.

 

Hope some large scalers will add comments!

 

Len Jaskiewicz

 

 





Re: Large scale wiring/ code 332 rail

David Heine
 

I have a large scale garden railroad, but it is only 20' X 30' and is actually smaller than my basement Sn3/Sn2/S layout, which is my main layout.  I could look at the DCC waveform on it with a scope or a Fluke ScopeMeter, but it is buried in snow right now.

The large scale layout is my "relaxed" layout, so I used Code 332 sectional track (mostly LGB) with a simple trackplan.  Note to small scalers, although it uses sectional track, I have straight sections that are about 4' long, so it really doesn't have any more joints than a similar sized small scale layout using flextrack.  Some comments on wiring.  When I first started wiring it, I soldered #12 AWG feeders onto the rail.  I found my resistance soldering unit at maximum output (300 watt) worked the best for me; even better than a small butane torch.  I tried several methods except for a propane torch.  I didn't want to melt plastic ties and the wire insulation.  I since added the split jaw rail clamps to all the rail joints and found that using a fork terminal under the head of one of the clamp bolts seems to work fine for a power connection, and is a lot easier than soldering.

I ran my main wires in PVC conduit, that roughly follows the mainline.  The feeder wires are just buried in the stone/dirt.  The power source is in an enclosed porch that is adjacent to the railroad.  There is a PVC conduit from the porch that tees into the layout conduit for the power.  All my turnouts are manual.  

I haven't had any real issues with using track power with the brass rail.   I just need to keep the track clean of leaves, squashed bugs, etc.

Dave Heine
Easton, PA



On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 3:09 PM, len.jask@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:


Don,

You pretty much listed up the first 5 commandments of DCC very nicely!

As for decoders, one gets what one pays for. I personally have mostly all ZIMO except for 1 QSI. I started going cheap but realized all the drawbacks.

As for spikes a PC based O-scope is a good investment. I think most could learn how to use it without a painful learning curve, no matter what scale.


Hope some large scalers will add comments!


Len Jaskiewicz







Re: Large scale wiring/ code 332 rail

jazzmanlj
 

Don,

You pretty much listed up the first 5 commandments of DCC very nicely!

As for decoders, one gets what one pays for. I personally have mostly all ZIMO except for 1 QSI. I started going cheap but realized all the drawbacks.

As for spikes a PC based O-scope is a good investment. I think most could learn how to use it without a painful learning curve, no matter what scale.


Hope some large scalers will add comments!


Len Jaskiewicz




Re: Large scale wiring/ code 332 rail

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Len,

The vast majority of problems with DCC fall into 5 categories:

1.      Poor electrical connections. If you can’t get reliable power to the loco, the expectations of being able to run at prototypical slow speeds fails. Oxidized/dirty track or wheels, poor internal pick-up mechanism in the loco, poor electrical connections from the DCC booster to the rail where the loco actually sits all contribute to the issue. Aluminum or stainless steel rails over longer distances will make this worse due to potentially poor electrical connections to the rails. [Running at racetrack speeds only masks the problem.]

2.      Dirty track type poor electrical connections of #1 lead directly to the need for better Immunity from momentary power outages that cause decoder/microprocessor confusion and subsequent loss of operating status and/or even CV memory loss. This is a decoder product design issue. The concepts of keep-alive help here. [Some N & HO scale decoders are better than others in this regard.]

3.      Protection and/or immunity from inadvertent short circuits. Stuff happens with derailments. Protecting the DCC wiring inside the loco from overcurrent damage when it is this particular loco that has derailed is a must. This is what limiting booster short circuit output amps, electronic circuit breakers and robust track wiring is all about. [when there is a short circuit, shut it down before there is permanent damage.] The annoyance factor of a whole layout shutdown with multiple operators is a different issue.

4.      Immunity from damage due to voltage spikes created by sparking short circuits and track/wiring inductance located elsewhere on the layout is another concern. With higher track voltages, greater amp capacity boosters and the longer track runs expected for large scales, this problem also gets larger. Hopefully every large scale decoder has adequate internal protection from inductive kick-back energy. The so-called DCC bus snubbers may not help that much here. One needs to dive into the world of MOV type transient protectors. [Re-read #2. It doesn’t necessarily need to be a short circuit that creates an intermittent demand in current that causes a voltage spike.]

5.      Loss of DCC signal integrity due to long distances over unterminated transmission line like feeders at the DCC switching wave fronts could be a problem. Using twisted pair wiring will help. So will the ‘termination’ idea of the 100-150 ohm R-C filter/snubber/terminator on the end of DCC bus runs… or perhaps distributed along the length of the run. This could be a good test of the long loop, multi-path ‘signal ghosting’ theory.  

 

I would certainly like to hear from experienced folks who have tried using DCC with large O and G scale model RRs.

 

DonV

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2015 8:07 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Large scale wiring/ code 332 rail

 




Hi Don,

Large scale does seem to be a 'different animal' with DCC. From other groups I've gotten responses of long runs and no snubbers and no problems in operations. Doubt about writing a book but might write a paper. The inductance and AC resistance came from online calculators based on #3 wire and aluminum as the conductor. Reasonable enough for a first hand approximation, and doing a simulation with LT Spice shows a well behaved waveform, but first approximation is with only 2 rails and 2 inductors and a 5 ohm load. I do not take simulation as 'gospel'.

 

Real test will be laying track and taking scope measurements as I go.

 

Most large scalers use straight DC or battery, but my preference is DCC.

 

Len J





Re: The Post Radio Shack World/lets end this!

Bill><>
 

Personally, I find the information of  value and it was all news to me.  The comments and information appreciated.
It would have been a big shock to me to find my store closed when in need.  This teaches me to rely on mail order sources and be prepared with some stock of my own for projects.
I belong to a lot of groups and the delete button is a very handy and quick way to eliminate subjects of no interest.
Bill Kozel


Re: Large scale wiring/ code 332 rail

jazzmanlj
 

Hi Don,

Large scale does seem to be a 'different animal' with DCC. From other groups I've gotten responses of long runs and no snubbers and no problems in operations. Doubt about writing a book but might write a paper. The inductance and AC resistance came from online calculators based on #3 wire and aluminum as the conductor. Reasonable enough for a first hand approximation, and doing a simulation with LT Spice shows a well behaved waveform, but first approximation is with only 2 rails and 2 inductors and a 5 ohm load. I do not take simulation as 'gospel'.


Real test will be laying track and taking scope measurements as I go.


Most large scalers use straight DC or battery, but my preference is DCC.


Len J


Re: The Post Radio Shack World/lets end this!

Bob H <rehandjr@...>
 

I believe you will find that Radio Shack is the only one open on Sunday.  Maybe in your area you have more luck.

Although we had Barbay Electronics and Cumberland Electronics in the area, (Cumberland might still exist) they were open sometimes till noon on Saturday and never on Sunday.

I have needed solder, a switch, wire, resistors, a new soldering iron (for sure!), an IC socket on Saturday night.  Poor planning maybe,  or bad luck (something broke).

Unfortunately this is the way of the world.  First the big box stores moved in, and then online purchasing.  Local stores close up and everything is a week away.

As in O'Brother Where Art Thou,  a Scientific Anomaly...two weeks from everywhere.

bob h

PS. RS RIP.

---- Original Message ----
From: "'Steve Haas' Goatfisher2@... [WiringForDCC]"
Sent: 2/8/2015 6:18:21 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] The Post Radio Shack World/lets end this!

 

<<So which one of those stores can you walk into TODAY and pick up a switch, resistor, wire, etc?>>

 

 

While one can’t _physically_ “walk into” the large electronic suppliers as one could walk into the local Radio Shack,  if one can plan ahead, whatever one needs can be ordered without getting out of one’s chair.  Pricing will usually be better than what one could get than at Radio Shack, with the prospect of lower prices for slightly larger quantities.  A little bit of advance projects for your various projects can save large amounts of time and money if you plan  ahead. 

 

If you do need it “today”, check out the yellow pages or run an online search for electronic supply houses in your area.  There should usually be one or more not too far away.  Locally here on the East Side of Seattle, we use   http://www.vetco.net/ in Bellevue.  Another poster has already responded with the name of a store in their area.  Do a Google search with  the keywords “electronic supply yourcityname here” and see what pops up.  If your area is large enough to support a Radio Shack, the odds are pretty good you will find a local electronic supply store equally accessible to you.

 

Best regards,

 

 

Steve

 

 

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA

 

 

 


Re: Older Atlas Turnouts

John White
 

Okay I'll take look and thanks for the reminder to ID my post.
JT


Re: Older Atlas Turnouts

Paul O <pomilian@...>
 

jtw37, (Please sign your posts)

I posted a photo in the Photo section “Insulated Frog”; one possible fix.

Another thing you might try is a .005” - .010” shim glued to the inside of the guard rails to force the wheels away from the frog area.

 

Paul O

 

Subject: [WiringForDCC] Older Atlas Turnouts

 

  First off, I have the Bachmann EZ Command controller, with my eye on an upgrade in the near future. So, here is my problem.

Most of my turnouts are from my DC days (70's-80's) of model railroading and some of the engine's I have stall in some of them, but not all the turnouts. I am DCC now, as I have converted several engine's to DCC, for the most part and am wondering if the frog's having a plastic insulator has a cure other then replacing the entire turnout. It will shut down the engine selected and go to default of engine number one. EZ Command gives you nine addresses to choose from and no individual numbering such as engine numbers. Some engines spark when going through them, so I'm assuming it is a brief short causing it to shut down that engine and go to default. The engines that are doing this have all wheel pick up and all wheel drive and are Atheran, Bachmann, Model Power and one Mantua. They are eight and twelve wheeler Diesel. I don't seem to have that much of an issue with my steamers, except for the 0-4-0's. Anyone have any thought's on a cure?


Re: Large scale wiring/ code 332 rail

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Sounds like an opportunity for you to write the book Len.
How did you get the 56 uH / 100 ft. Did you measure it?
I can see the longer track runs becoming a greater problem with DCC and larger scales. I would be curious how twisted pair wiring and the use of snubbers does or does not work with distances of 100's of feet. From what I've seen most larger scale track is aluminum or stainless steel. Good corrosion free electrical joints to copper wire are almost impossible, especially if outdoors.
Direct Radio control and battery packs make the most sense to me... Maybe with power on the rails to keep the batteries charged.

Allan, tell us more about your outdoor RR.

DonV

On Feb 8, 2015, at 9:59 AM, len.jask@verizon.net<mailto:len.jask@verizon.net> [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:




Lots of great info here and lots of expertise, but most seem to apply to HO and smaller scale.


Large scale code 332 rail is equivalent to AWG #3 wire. The inductance of 1 rail @ 100' = about 56uH @ 10kHz switching. Are there any written sources for good practices, do's and don'ts for large scale?


Len Jaskiewicz


Large scale wiring/ code 332 rail

jazzmanlj
 

Lots of great info here and lots of expertise, but most seem to apply to HO and smaller scale.


 Large scale code 332 rail is equivalent to AWG #3 wire. The inductance of 1 rail @ 100' = about 56uH @ 10kHz switching. Are there any written sources for good practices, do's and don'ts for large scale?


Len Jaskiewicz


Older Atlas Turnouts

John White
 

First off, I have the Bachmann EZ Command controller, with my eye on an upgrade in the near future. So, here is my problem.


Most of my turnouts are from my DC days (70's-80's) of model railroading and some of the engine's I have stall in some of them, but not all the turnouts. I am DCC now, as I have converted several engine's to DCC, for the most part and am wondering if the frog's having a plastic insulator has a cure other then replacing the entire turnout. It will shut down the engine selected and go to default of engine number one. EZ Command gives you nine addresses to choose from and no individual numbering such as engine numbers. Some engines spark when going through them, so I'm assuming it is a brief short causing it to shut down that engine and go to default. The engines that are doing this have all wheel pick up and all wheel drive and are Atheran, Bachmann, Model Power and one Mantua. They are eight and twelve wheeler Diesel. I don't seem to have that much of an issue with my steamers, except for the 0-4-0's. Anyone have any thought's on a cure?

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