Date   
Re: Bus Wiring....

asychis@...
 

Allan, It is refreshing to read something simple and straightforward.  No math, no equipment, no engineering, no philosophy, just a simple quarter!  Simple is usually the best. Jerry Michels

[NCE-DCC] Club NCE Wiring Manual & Standards

Mark Gurries
 

Jim is cross posting.  So I will crosspost my reply.

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [NCE-DCC]" <NCE-DCC@...>
Subject: Re: [NCE-DCC] Club NCE Wiring Manual & Standards
Date: January 15, 2015 at 3:09:00 PM PST
To: $NCE <NCE-DCC@...>
Reply-To: NCE-DCC@...

Start here

Following sets the MINIMUM standard for the wiring.  It simply say the wiring  is good enough for the booster to properly shutdown when there is a short circuit. 


In terms of working with long wire runs and DCC, here is what you need to know 



On Jan 15, 2015, at 11:08 AM, yxsops@... [NCE-DCC] <NCE-DCC@...> wrote:

Hello,

Our club has a permanent mature layout that is being operated successfully with the NCE Power Cab system.  Unfortunately, there is absolutely no documentation nor standard that has been followed in wiring the layout by previous member.  Currently the layout runs well, but should something happen, we wouldn't know where to go to start to troubleshoot.  We want to change that.  I am wondering if other clubs or members have established their own manuals or standards as it applies to wiring and would be willing to share their ideas.

 

Jim


Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com




Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: Bus Wiring....

wirefordcc
 

I thought this discussion on N scale track buses would be a good time to remind readers that the key to knowing if your wiring is adequate, is the quarter test.  If your wiring passes the quarter test, you are good to go.  This test will ensure that your booster will safely shutdown rather than melt down your locomotive.  Real Alcos should smoke, model ones shouldn’t! J  For more on the quarter test, see my website at:  http://www.WiringForDCC.com/track.htm#a16

 

Allan Gartner

Wiring For DCC

Re: Bus Wiring....

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

For a 4 x 8 N scale layout 14 ga is overkill. Stripping out romex then twisting is a lot of fiddly work. If you test for wiring mistake shorts as you go your biggest issue when running will be operator error or derailments. These are kind of obvious… especially on a 4 x 8 layout. Block circuit breakers or manual disconnect switches (if you are fast enough) will help protect equipment.

DonV  

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 9:27 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Bus Wiring....

 



Thanks Don... I know it is over kill ( I already had the dpst switches) but it is also cheap insurance and I kind of think that it makes for easy trouble shooting allowing me to isolate a block.... as stated I think that I will spring for the circuit breakers... I was planning on using 14 gauge Romex (I tend to prefer solid wire... especially when it will be permanent fixture) stripping the White and Black wires out of the jacket and twisting them... the romex is much cheaper than just buying White and Black THHN Solid 14 gauge wire. I have already purchased the Bell Wire as you mentioned for my Feeders. So I guess now the fun begins.... 

Thanks Again,  Ace




Re: Bus Wiring....

Kurt Konrath
 

If you want red/black zip cord in most normal sizes look at the wire and cables section of PowerWerx web site.    Reasonable costs and they have sizes from 10 - 24 I think 

Kurt K


On Jan 14, 2015, at 8:39 AM, 'Vollrath, Don' dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

 

You should have no problems with your 4 x 8 layout by putting the command station & booster at one end. For a 5 amp system you could wire up the DCC busses using 18 ga zip cord or 16 ga speaker wire. You can still find 18 ga red & white twisted “bell’ wire in some stores. Splitting up the layout into 4 power district blocks with disconnect switches is a noble idea, but somewhat overkill. However, at a later time you may want to replace or supplement the disconnect switches with electronic circuit breakers to help protect your fragile N scale equipment.

DonV  

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 7:18 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Bus Wiring....

 



I am in the planning stages of a N Scale layout. I am using a 4'x8' layout.... According to my layout program I have a total of a bit over 90' of track... I have it broken into 4 different blocks. My question is since I really want to locate my complete controls at one end of the layout and not the center.... can I just use a lager size bus wire to address any issues with length? I plan on using a Digitrax SEBX Super Empire Builder Xtra with 5 Amps..... I would be running all of my Bus wires to a switch box that has DPST Switches that will allow me to isolate each Block. I plan on installing either Circuit Breakers or use the 1156 bulb option for each block. I have rambled enough and for this I apologize... Any and all help or pointers will be greatly appreciated.

 




Re: Bus Wiring....

Ace Flier II
 

Thanks Don... I know it is over kill ( I already had the dpst switches) but it is also cheap insurance and I kind of think that it makes for easy trouble shooting allowing me to isolate a block.... as stated I think that I will spring for the circuit breakers... I was planning on using 14 gauge Romex (I tend to prefer solid wire... especially when it will be permanent fixture) stripping the White and Black wires out of the jacket and twisting them... the romex is much cheaper than just buying White and Black THHN Solid 14 gauge wire. I have already purchased the Bell Wire as you mentioned for my Feeders. So I guess now the fun begins.... 
Thanks Again,  Ace

Re: Bus Wiring....

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

You should have no problems with your 4 x 8 layout by putting the command station & booster at one end. For a 5 amp system you could wire up the DCC busses using 18 ga zip cord or 16 ga speaker wire. You can still find 18 ga red & white twisted “bell’ wire in some stores. Splitting up the layout into 4 power district blocks with disconnect switches is a noble idea, but somewhat overkill. However, at a later time you may want to replace or supplement the disconnect switches with electronic circuit breakers to help protect your fragile N scale equipment.

DonV  

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 7:18 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Bus Wiring....

 



I am in the planning stages of a N Scale layout. I am using a 4'x8' layout.... According to my layout program I have a total of a bit over 90' of track... I have it broken into 4 different blocks. My question is since I really want to locate my complete controls at one end of the layout and not the center.... can I just use a lager size bus wire to address any issues with length? I plan on using a Digitrax SEBX Super Empire Builder Xtra with 5 Amps..... I would be running all of my Bus wires to a switch box that has DPST Switches that will allow me to isolate each Block. I plan on installing either Circuit Breakers or use the 1156 bulb option for each block. I have rambled enough and for this I apologize... Any and all help or pointers will be greatly appreciated.

 




Bus Wiring....

Ace Flier II
 

I am in the planning stages of a N Scale layout. I am using a 4'x8' layout.... According to my layout program I have a total of a bit over 90' of track... I have it broken into 4 different blocks. My question is since I really want to locate my complete controls at one end of the layout and not the center.... can I just use a lager size bus wire to address any issues with length? I plan on using a Digitrax SEBX Super Empire Builder Xtra with 5 Amps..... I would be running all of my Bus wires to a switch box that has DPST Switches that will allow me to isolate each Block. I plan on installing either Circuit Breakers or use the 1156 bulb option for each block. I have rambled enough and for this I apologize... Any and all help or pointers will be greatly appreciated.


Re: headlight in DCC

Paul O
 

Fernando, to keep the headlight on in both directions, change CV33 from a value of 1 to a value of 3.

Look in the technical manual for your decoder for an explanation of "Function Mapping". That will explain how to change the way the function keys operate.

Paul O

Re: 12 volts bulb and DCC

Mark Gurries
 

The problem is easy to understand for there is no difference between burning the locomotive shell and burning your hand with a normal light bulb.

All filament bulbs radiate both light and heat at the same time.  The heat is a byproduct.  The question become how much heat?   Just like our standard light bulb we halve in our homes have watt ratings, so do the small bulbs we used in our locomotives. 

Watts = Volts x Amps.

Simple example of the heat output differences between two bulbs which only differ in voltage rating.

So a 0.1 Amp (100mA) bulb with a voltage rating of:

1.5V would dissipate 1.5V x 0.1A = 0.15Watts.  Warm to the touch.

12V would dissipate 12V x 0.1A = 1.2 Watts.   You would not be able to touch this bulb.

So by just dropping the voltage to 1.5V, we ALMOST reduced the watt rating or heat generated by 10X.

In the real would, 1.5V bulbs draw about around 0.01 Amps for a watt rating of 0.015W.   Now we are approaching almost a 100X reduction in heat from a 12V bulb.  

This is why 1.5V bulbs running at 1.5V are always cool to the touch and 12V bulbs will burn your hand running at 12V.

One of the characteristics of model railroad light bulbs are the fact they are so physically small they represent a point source (concentration) of high temperature heat.

Additional factors that make this 12V lamp a big problem for DCC that did not exist with DC. 

1) Introduction of Engineering Plastics.   DCC appeared during a time frame where high tech engineering plastics have been introduced too.  These new plastics offer supper detailed shells for engines.  This same plastic also appears to have a lower heat or melting threshold that the older thick plastic shells.  They also are much thinner which makes the thermal melting problem worse since thinner plastic cannot carry as much heat away from the heat source.   It has a poorer heat dissipation capability which means the plastic will get hotter from the same heat source than the old thick plastic did. 

2) DCC allows one to have constant full power lighting without the engine moving.  That means when a given bulb is turned on, it is receiving the full track voltage which is a regulated voltage someplace between 12V and 16V depending on the scale.   As was stated before, you never had a DC system running at that voltage because that would force the engine to run at full speed at that same track voltage.  Track voltage = Motor speed.  In other words, at typical running speeds, the light was a lot dimmer putting out a lot less heat due to the track voltage was a lot less than 12V.

LEDs do not generate any heat of any consequence, are a lot brighter and unlike a bulb, will never burnout in the locomotives lifetime.




On Jan 12, 2015, at 12:14 PM, richg_1998@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

i guess I should include the link. Some will never search.

http://tinyurl.com/m35c6ac

Rich

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: 12 volts bulb and DCC

richg_1998@...
 

i guess I should include the link. Some will never search.

http://tinyurl.com/m35c6ac

Rich

Re: 12 volts bulb and DCC

richg_1998@...
 

i did a Google search for

dcc 12volt bulbs plastic shell

Came up with many results and warnings. Experiences from a few.
i belong to 20 train groups/forums for some years.

Rich

Re: headlight in DCC

fernando nunes
 

Craig,

The decoder is a ESU V4.0,

Fernando 

Re: headlight in DCC

Craig Zeni
 

On Jan 12, 2015, at 10:58 AM, lopesnunes@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:




Hello everybody,



When a loco runs forward in DCC the headlight, linked to the white wire of the decoder, is on (provided the F0 button is on), and in reverse direction it turns off. Is there any way to keep the headlight on, in reverse direction, if I wish to, though still linked to the white wire? (don’t want to assign it to aux1 or 2).
Absolutely...it varies from decoder to decoder though so we need to know which decoder you're using. I usually set up my decoders with the front and rear lights on separate functions and if the decoder allows it I'll put a 'dim' function on one of the function buttons.


Craig Zeni
Cary NC

headlight in DCC

fernando nunes
 

Hello everybody,


When a loco runs forward in DCC the headlight, linked to the white wire of the decoder, is on (provided the F0 button is on), and in reverse direction it turns off. Is there any way to keep the headlight on, in reverse direction, if I wish to, though still linked to the white wire? (don’t want to assign it to aux1 or 2).


Fernando 

Re: 12 volts bulb and DCC

Annette and Dante Fuligni
 

Bob,

All the locos involved have plastic shells.

Dante

Re: 12 volts bulb and DCC

Robert Heroux
 

Dante -

I would say you did have good fortune smiling upon you and you may want to by some lottery tickets.. LOL  I have seen some get by with 12 volt only to find out later they were Brass loco’s with poor after market paint jobs and not plastic… Live and learn.

Bob







Robert Heroux
ACCU-LITES, Inc.
Your DCC Center
118 S. Main St. STE 5
Wauconda, IL 60084

Phone: 847.224.7914
FAX: 847.487.2089
NMRA Member # 143811


Re: 12 volts bulb and DCC

Annette and Dante Fuligni
 

I rather doubt that good fortune has anything to do with my experience with 12v bulbs. The principles of physics apply to matters such as lamp voltage (and the heat generated thereby) and the characteristics of materials such as plastic. These are not subject to luck. And before installing the TCS decoders, I checked their website installation examples. There were no warnings regarding bulb wattages (one example did change to LEDs but without mention of concern for plastic melting.

Dante

Auto Reverse Section question

mooredw@...
 

Hi all
I added a pdf file to the files section "autoreversesection-WestboroCentralRR.pdf"

Could anyone look at it and comment on it - I think the area in orange is all I need to have  covered by my AR.

Thanks
Dave
Ottawa, ON, Canada


Re: Switch machine auxilary contacts

CS_listes
 

Hello Dale,
Thank you for the scheme and for the explanations.
Good day.
Charles Soubiran.
Posted by: @selkirk5934 dale_gloer
> I have uploaded a quick hand drawing of a circuit that will do what you need to the FILES section. It is called Relay Schematic.
Bonjour Dale,
Merci pour le schéma et pour les explications.
Bonne journée.
Charles Soubiran.