Date   
Re: Switch machine auxilary contacts

CS_listes
 

Hello Dale,
Thank you for the scheme and for the explanations.
Good day.
Charles Soubiran.
Posted by: @selkirk5934 dale_gloer
> I have uploaded a quick hand drawing of a circuit that will do what you need to the FILES section. It is called Relay Schematic.
Bonjour Dale,
Merci pour le schéma et pour les explications.
Bonne journée.
Charles Soubiran.

New file uploaded to WiringForDCC

WiringForDCC@...
 

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Re: Newbie DS 64 programming question

wirefordcc
 

I'm an old timer - I have DS-54's - the DS-64's predecessor. The DS-54 has a button you press and hold to set its address.  Then when you send it a turnout number to set its address, only it changes.  All the other DS-54's, which I didn't press the button on, keep whatever address I had previously put in them.  I know this works because I just did it about a week ago.


If the DS-64 works anything like this - meaning you do something to the DS-64 you want to affect and don't do anything to the others, you should be fine to try it.


Allan Gartner

Wiring For DCC


Newbie DS 64 programming question

chrisn2goldens@...
 

If I have 2 or more DS 64's connected via a loconet cable and want to reprogram the switch (turnout) numbers on one of the DS 64's, do I need to reprogram it offline or online will all the other DS64's ignore the switch signals except the one that has been put in the mode to receive the new switch numbers?  Thanks


Re: Altering LED light strands for layout use

dvollrath@...
 

Cameron, One other thought. There are commercial LEDs out there that have built-in resistors such that each LED is rated to operate directly from 5 or 12V DC. Note that 25 LEDs in a string x 5V = 125V. If you cannot find the location of the current limiting device, pull out one of the LEDs and use your voltmeter to see what voltage is actually across the LED connections when it is carefully wired back into the socket connections. If it is greater than 3.5V, there is probably an integrated  resistor inside. [Or investigate it separately using a 9V battery and external resistors to limit current. Start with a relatively high resistance, say 8-10k and lower it until the LED appears to be the same brightness as when energized in the original string.] If that is the case you can rewire as desired using individual LED parts to operate from a different voltage source of your liking.


As I said before... Don't increase the current beyond what was in the original application as you will seriously shorten the lifetime.


DonV   

Re: Altering LED light strands for layout use

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

I wouldn’t mess with trying to increase the brightness of the individual LEDs themselves as you would be altering their current… and lifetime. But yeah… if you bypass one of the LEDs the current of others would increase, but with little noticeable increase in the brightness.

 

You would be better off simply rebundling them to be two together to yield similar brightness of each C7 type bulb in a continuous string from ‘house to house’. If you don’t need 25 locations or want more linear space between houses, cover (paint?) the LEDs you do not use.

 

But Yeah, all the individual voltage drops of each LED (apparently in your case 25 in a series string) lead up to 65-80 volts of total voltage drop, and there is a resistor or inductor somewhere in that string to limit the current from the 120Vac plug. Look for a rectangular ‘blob’ somewhere in the wiring string. I might be molded into the male plug end. Get out your ohmmeter and find it.

 

But remember that you are dealing with something designed for 120Vac. LEDs are diodes that conduct current in only one direction. The strings might be arranged where one grouping of 25 carries the (+) current and the second grouping wired in anti-parallel carries the (-) current. Each LED tends to ‘sparkle’ or flicker at 30 Hz from 120V, 60 Hz power.

I have also seen 2 LEDs connected anti-parallel within the same plastic housing to directly work from AC current. Still need a mechanism to limit current.

 

Either way, it is difficult to fiddle with commercial LED wiring without knowing for sure what and where the current limiting element(s) are located. Be careful to not alter the actual LED current and to not create a fire hazard for your household. Anything that plugs into a wall outlet should be UL listed according to your insurance company.

 

DonV  

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 10:09 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Altering LED light strands for layout use

 



I hope this is a good place to ask this question.
I incorporate Porcelain houses into my Christmas display.
The houses are designed for C7, 7 watt bulbs.
I purchased several strands of LED Christmas lights to use in my display.
I found that 2 bulbs gave about the same of light as the C7.
I know little about LED lights.

I am assuming that the stand of 50 lights in 2 power districts have build in resistors.

IF a bulb is removed the complete section is DEAD.

Now for the question,
Is it possible to remove a bulb, connect the wire ends, as if no bulb existed?
IF a group of 25 LED were to be stripped down to 12, keeping math relatively simple, would the LED be brighter?
I do not know where the resistor is in the stand, would it need to be replaced do a different size and or would the LED be brighter with the reduction of number of LEDs lit?

Again, not knowing LED physics, am I looking at any fire hazard with this thought process?

Just to add to the reasoning of my question, the LEDs on the strand are too close to each other and I have about 2/3 of the lights under the layout doing me no good.  I want to decrease the number and increase the brightness.

Thank you for all input and suggestions.

Cameron D
NE Florida

 




Re: Switch machine auxilary contacts

Dale Gloer
 

Hello Charles, I deleted a previous post to added this updated one.

I assume that both rails of the two tracks leading away from the frog of the switch are gapped at the switch.

You need a monostable relay with at least DPDT contacts capable of handling 5 amps minimum.  The relay should be capable of operating continuously on low voltage depending on what power supply you may have available - 12 VDC is a good choice.  Since you are in France I do not know how to suggest a particular make or brand.  You will have to get help locally for that.

I have uploaded a quick hand drawing of a circuit that will do what you need to the FILES section.  It is called Relay Schematic.

I hope this helps you.

Dale Gloer

New file uploaded to WiringForDCC

WiringForDCC@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the WiringForDCC
group.


File : /Relay schematic.PDF
Uploaded by : dale_gloer <@selkirk5934>
Description : A Quick diagram to answer a specific question


You can access this file at the URL:
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Regards,


dale_gloer <@selkirk5934>

Altering LED light strands for layout use

Cameron Davis
 

I hope this is a good place to ask this question.
I incorporate Porcelain houses into my Christmas display.
The houses are designed for C7, 7 watt bulbs.
I purchased several strands of LED Christmas lights to use in my display.
I found that 2 bulbs gave about the same of light as the C7.
I know little about LED lights.

I am assuming that the stand of 50 lights in 2 power districts have build in resistors.

IF a bulb is removed the complete section is DEAD.

Now for the question,
Is it possible to remove a bulb, connect the wire ends, as if no bulb existed?
IF a group of 25 LED were to be stripped down to 12, keeping math relatively simple, would the LED be brighter?
I do not know where the resistor is in the stand, would it need to be replaced do a different size and or would the LED be brighter with the reduction of number of LEDs lit?

Again, not knowing LED physics, am I looking at any fire hazard with this thought process?

Just to add to the reasoning of my question, the LEDs on the strand are too close to each other and I have about 2/3 of the lights under the layout doing me no good.  I want to decrease the number and increase the brightness.

Thank you for all input and suggestions.

Cameron D
NE Florida


Re: 12 volts bulb and DCC

rg <richg_1998@...>
 

A few times I have seen a recommendation to install a 22 ohm, 1/2 watt resistor. This cuts down on the surge and lengthens light bulb life.
Many replaced the 12 volt bulb with an LED and 1k resistor.
Some do use a 1.5 volt bulb and resistor. The 1.5 volt bulbs run a lot cooler.
i have done measurements using an infra red temperature scanner.
Some DCC systems can run at a higher DCC voltage.

Rich
 
Failure is not an option. it comes bundled with Windows.
Dale Gloer



Re: 12 volts bulb and DCC

rg <richg_1998@...>
 

You are fortunate. I belong to about about twenty train forums. Some running 12 volt bulbs have not been so fortunate.


Rich

Re: 12 volts bulb and DCC

Annette and Dante Fuligni
 

I have a Life-Like P2000 Alco S-1 with 12v, 50 ma bulbs, an Atlas RS-3 with 14-16v bulbs and a Bachmann Spectrum motor car with a 12v bulb, all with decoders running on DCC and no melting.

Dante

Re: Switch machine auxilary contacts

CS_listes
 

Bonjour Dale,
Posted by: @selkirk5934 dale_gloer
Date: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:17 pm ((PST))
...
If you are determined to not use the contacts to switch the track power directly then use one set of contacts to operate a relay with contacts rated higher than you ever expect to need.
... Dale Gloer
What relay model should be used:
- monostable
- bistable?
Do you have a diagram to show us
Best regards.
Charles Soubiran.
Bordeaux France.

Quel modèle de relais faut-il utiliser :
- monostable
- bistable ?
Avez-vous un schéma à nous montrer
Meilleures salutations.
Charles Soubiran.
Bordeaux France.

Re: 12 volts bulb and DCC

john
 

Fernando,
   You can use your 12 v lamp, actually any voltage less than track voltage. The trick is to install a resistor in series with it. I have a resistor substation box that makes it easy to find the right resistor. To find the value you need you need your bulb current. If it listed on the package just use the amp meter in your Volt Ohm Meter and use Ohm law. Make sure the wattage of your resistor exceeds the wattage of your bulb.
   I am partial to using Leds. The only problem with them is decoders that put out 1.5 volts which is too low for any diode. The do take care of the heat when you can use them.
john


On Thursday, January 8, 2015 11:11 AM, "dale.gloer@... [WiringForDCC]" wrote:




A 12 volt lamp connected to a DCC decoder will likely melt a plastic shell.  This is because the lamp is operating all the time at approximately 12 volts that is supplied by the decoder.  The reason it does not happen on DC is that the lamp seldom or maybe never operates on 12 volts - it operates on whatever voltage is supplied to the motor to make it run at the speed desired, maybe as low as 6 to 8 volts.  A locomotive on DC with 12 volts supplied will run at very high speed. 

In my opinion it is better to replace the lamp with an LED and suitable current limiting resistor when operating on DCC.  Some decoders are equipped with lamp outputs specifically designed for LEDs and do not require an external resistor.

Dale Gloer



Re: 12 volts bulb and DCC

Dale Gloer
 

A 12 volt lamp connected to a DCC decoder will likely melt a plastic shell.  This is because the lamp is operating all the time at approximately 12 volts that is supplied by the decoder.  The reason it does not happen on DC is that the lamp seldom or maybe never operates on 12 volts - it operates on whatever voltage is supplied to the motor to make it run at the speed desired, maybe as low as 6 to 8 volts.  A locomotive on DC with 12 volts supplied will run at very high speed. 

In my opinion it is better to replace the lamp with an LED and suitable current limiting resistor when operating on DCC.  Some decoders are equipped with lamp outputs specifically designed for LEDs and do not require an external resistor.

Dale Gloer

12 volts bulb and DCC

fernando nunes
 

I read that 12 volts bulb + DCC = melted shell.  The reason is because the lamp will get too hot, but that doesn’t happen in DC, so far as I know. And with a 16 volts bulb in DCC, is there any problem? Besides, how can one identify a 12 volts bulb versus a 16 volts?

Any comments on the subject would be appreciate. Thank you.

Fernando


Re: decoder installation in a IHC GG1

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

I also appreciate the comments by others.

I you run with a hot pantograph on many layouts both rails of the tracks might already be connected together as common ‘ground’. Using a second part of a DPDT switch to connect the decoder black wire of the track connection to both rails while always picking up power from the overhead wire would make it totally compatible with most existing ‘street car’ type layouts. Obviously this is not compatible with 2-rail DCC as both sides of the truck wheels would be connected together. But there would be no need for rail or pantograph gaps or auto-reversing contraptions.

 

Flipping the DPDT switch the other way could connect it back up for 2-rail DCC with a dead pantograph.

 

But, if single rail continuity is good, or at least as good as the catenary, and either rail connection will return power to the source there should be no need for the additional switch part to return power to both rails.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 6:39 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] decoder installation in a IHC GG1

 




Thank’s for the explanations. I conclude there is no problem in connecting the pantographs wire to the left terminal of the switch, if I want DCC operation from overhead, which is my main question. Another question is related with breaks in the connection from overhead that may be solved by dual power pick-up or ”keep-alive”, as you stated. However, I intend to run the engine as two rails and only occasionally from overhead.

 

Best regards

 

Fernando




Re: decoder installation in a IHC GG1

fernando nunes
 

Thank’s for the explanations. I conclude there is no problem in connecting the pantographs wire to the left terminal of the switch, if I want DCC operation from overhead, which is my main question. Another question is related with breaks in the connection from overhead that may be solved by dual power pick-up or ”keep-alive”, as you stated. However, I intend to run the engine as two rails and only occasionally from overhead.


Best regards


Fernando

Re: decoder installation in a IHC GG1

Mark Gurries
 

On Jan 5, 2015, at 10:19 PM, 'Glenn' ghazel@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

IMHO: Run as two rail only and forget getting power from the overhead.


Yes that is always the option but does not address the problem.  Nothing is improved or solved.

If you are running engines only from the overhead, then wire that as one side of the polarity and both rails as the other. Traction modelers do this in both DC and DCC

Understood as I stated before.   But I know that not everyone does this. 

Yes there is a solution and a benefit, also more problems. You would need to select which rail would be the same polarity as the overhead


Right as I stated.

and duplicate all electrical nuances, I.e. gaps, polarity reversal, insulated frogs, etc. 


True but not nearly as bad.   Pantograph polarity issue would be limited to

1) Reverse loops.
2) Crossings.
3) Wye's

In such cases, the pantograph section where the opposing polarities would meet would be replaced by a short dead section (few inches) of pantograph power and depend 100% on the all wheel pickup until you passed clear of the pantograph polarity zone.  Think of it as a very large gap.  This solution is very simple to implement.  No small precision gaps required.

The pantograph within the reversing section would remain assigned to the same rail as before and have its polarity determined by the autoreverser.

There would not be any polarity issue for turnouts.
It would also mean more wiring.

Wiring yes.  But not much more wiring since you simply taping into the existing close by track feeders for the rail assigned to be the pantograph power.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 19:27
To: $WiringForDCC
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] decoder installation in a IHC GG1

 




I am not an "electric engine" expert as it relates to model using live overhead wire power pickup.   Here are my thoughts on the subject.

 

IF the engine was design to ONLY pickup power from the pantograph, then a “switch" to select between rail and pantograph is not required.

 

However...

 

IF the engine offers the option of using all wheel pick up or pantograph pickup, then we have options for simultaneous dual power pickup.    The only question is what polarity does the pantograph represent relative to the wheel pickup.  I do not know if there is a “NMRA standard” governing this and even if there is how many follow it.  In this case, a switch is only needed to set the polarity of the pantograph power with respect to the wheel pickup power.  In one direction it would represent a short and in the other it would offer supplemental power pickup.  One can quickly figure out which position it needs to be in.  The dual power pickup, both rails + pantograph, physically gives you the same effect as having more wheel pickup.  Granted it only improves pickup for one rail, but it does cut the problem in half giving one more reliable power pickup operation.

 

Adding dual power pickup would be far cheaper than adding a Keep Alive.   But I agree if the dual pickup power option does not solve your power pickup problem, then keep alive is your next best bet.

 

 

On Jan 5, 2015, at 7:20 AM, 'Vollrath, Don' dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



The DCC decoder should work from the pantograph or rail/wheel pick-up. Using a SPDT switch to select either one or the other modes makes sense. [Obviously the wheels must be isolated for two rail pick-up to avoid shorting out any DCC signal that is on the rails, motor isolated from frame, etc.]

However pantograph pick-up for DCC may suffer from many intermittent breaks in the connection. If this happens, try adding one of the ‘keep-alive’ / carry-over gadgets to improve continuity pf power.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 7:19 AM
To: wiringfordcc@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] decoder installation in a IHC GG1

 





I've recently installed a decoder in a IHC GG1 (two motors), It works fine. But I have a doubt. In DC, operation can be done through the pantographs or both rails by means of a switch in the bottom of the chassis. To install the decoder I had to disconnect the wire linked to the pantographs. I’ve soldered the black wire of the decoder to the terminal in the middle of the switch, which is linked to the left wheels pick-up in the right position of the switch button. In the other position, the black wire would be linked to the pantographs, if I've soldered the respective wire to the left terminal of the switch. Can I resolder it to the switch for operation through the pantographs in DCC? Or is it not advisable?

 

Thank's.

 

Fernando

 





 

Best Regards,

 

Mark Gurries

Electrical Engineer

DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

 

 

 



Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: decoder installation in a IHC GG1

Glenn
 

IMHO: Run as two rail only and forget getting power from the overhead. If you are running engines only from the overhead, then wire that as one side of the polarity and both rails as the other. Traction modelers do this in both DC and DCC

 

Yes there is a solution and a benefit, also more problems. You would need to select which rail would be the same polarity as the overhead and duplicate all electrical nuances, I.e. gaps, polarity reversal, insulated frogs, etc. It would also mean more wiring.

 

Glenn

 

 

 


From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 19:27
To: $WiringForDCC
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] decoder installation in a IHC GG1

 




I am not an "electric engine" expert as it relates to model using live overhead wire power pickup.   Here are my thoughts on the subject.

 

IF the engine was design to ONLY pickup power from the pantograph, then a “switch" to select between rail and pantograph is not required.

 

However...

 

IF the engine offers the option of using all wheel pick up or pantograph pickup, then we have options for simultaneous dual power pickup.    The only question is what polarity does the pantograph represent relative to the wheel pickup.  I do not know if there is a “NMRA standard” governing this and even if there is how many follow it.  In this case, a switch is only needed to set the polarity of the pantograph power with respect to the wheel pickup power.  In one direction it would represent a short and in the other it would offer supplemental power pickup.  One can quickly figure out which position it needs to be in.  The dual power pickup, both rails + pantograph, physically gives you the same effect as having more wheel pickup.  Granted it only improves pickup for one rail, but it does cut the problem in half giving one more reliable power pickup operation.

 

Adding dual power pickup would be far cheaper than adding a Keep Alive.   But I agree if the dual pickup power option does not solve your power pickup problem, then keep alive is your next best bet.

 

 

On Jan 5, 2015, at 7:20 AM, 'Vollrath, Don' dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:



The DCC decoder should work from the pantograph or rail/wheel pick-up. Using a SPDT switch to select either one or the other modes makes sense. [Obviously the wheels must be isolated for two rail pick-up to avoid shorting out any DCC signal that is on the rails, motor isolated from frame, etc.]

However pantograph pick-up for DCC may suffer from many intermittent breaks in the connection. If this happens, try adding one of the ‘keep-alive’ / carry-over gadgets to improve continuity pf power.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 7:19 AM
To: wiringfordcc@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] decoder installation in a IHC GG1

 





I've recently installed a decoder in a IHC GG1 (two motors), It works fine. But I have a doubt. In DC, operation can be done through the pantographs or both rails by means of a switch in the bottom of the chassis. To install the decoder I had to disconnect the wire linked to the pantographs. I’ve soldered the black wire of the decoder to the terminal in the middle of the switch, which is linked to the left wheels pick-up in the right position of the switch button. In the other position, the black wire would be linked to the pantographs, if I've soldered the respective wire to the left terminal of the switch. Can I resolder it to the switch for operation through the pantographs in DCC? Or is it not advisable?

 

Thank's.

 

Fernando

 





 

Best Regards,

 

Mark Gurries

Electrical Engineer

DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com