Date   
Re: Shorting across power districts

asychis@...
 

DonV writes: "Bill you can verify the booster polarity by placing a small 14-16V lamp across the rail gaps isolating the booster districts. If it lights when placed across gaps in the same rail the polarity is reversed. If no light then polarity is OK. The lamp should light when placed diagonally across the rail gaps when the booster common is connected properly."
 
I would be 99.9% sure this is the problem.  On block is out of phase to the other. Jerry Mihels

Re: Shorting across power districts

wrhastings@...
 

Problem solved. I started out by connecting the boosters together. As part of that, I took Mark's suggestion to heart, and put a #1156 light bulb in series with each leg of the commons. Was still having shorting issues and started isolating shorter and shorter sections of track. Finally came down to a single section, with one turnout on it. Close inspections showed that one of the PC ties was not correctly gapped. Cut the proper gap, and everything is working as it should. Thanks for all of the help and comments.

Bill Hastings

Help on wiring 3 way turnout with tortoise

vincent_roy75@...
 

Good day All,


I have a Peco N scale 3 way turnout that i want to install but I'm a bit confused on how to wire it.. I have read lots of things on the subject but I want to be 100% of what to do before actually doing it.


Here is my setup: My DCC system is NCE. All my other turnouts are connected to a Tortoise and an NCE Switch8 module.


So I have my two Tortoise for the 3 way turnout. Under the turnout, there is already two metal wires from the two frogs. Am I connecting those wire to the Pin#4 on the tortoise?


Any help would be appreciated!!


Thanks


Vince


Re: Shorting across power districts

Mark Gurries
 

On Nov 27, 2014, at 8:59 AM, wrhastings@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

The booster common wire is a bit confusing. I noticed the comment in the manual, but it didn't give much detail. Do I just wire the 3 PB110 cases together?

Yes and there is another step.  As Don stated in his email, you must verify the screw INSIDE the box is in the correct location.  This information is found in you PB110 Manual.

We're running HO scale. Eventually, each booster will eventually connect to 4 PSX breakers -

Do it sooner than latter.  You may burn something up.  There are some potential risk working with HO and PB110 boosters.



Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: Shorting across power districts

wrhastings@...
 

The booster common wire is a bit confusing. I noticed the comment in the manual, but it didn't give much detail. Do I just wire the 3 PB110 cases together?

We're running HO scale. Eventually, each booster will eventually connect to 4 PSX breakers - Upper level mainline, upper level sidings, lower level mainline, and lower level sidings.

Bill Hastings

Re: Shorting across power districts

smckee@...
 

I had that same exact problem on my layout just before the last narrow gauge convention on my layout which is almost a club size layout. Everything was working fine the way I had it and then I had your problem. My friend Mark found out that you have to ground the extra power boxes to the each other by putting a screw in the bottom of the metal box and grounding them to each other. We did that and the problem was solved. Steve McKee

Re: Shorting across power districts

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Bill you can verify the booster polarity by placing a small 14-16V lamp across the rail gaps isolating the booster districts. If it lights when placed across gaps in the same rail the polarity is reversed. If no light then polarity is OK. The lamp should light when placed diagonally across the rail gaps when the booster common is connected properly.

DonV

On Nov 27, 2014, at 9:42 AM, wrhastings@...<mailto:wrhastings@...> [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...<mailto:WiringForDCC@...>> wrote:




I'm trying to get our new club layout up and running for an upcoming holiday open-house. The mainline loop is broken into 3 power districts. Each district is fed by a NCE PB-110A booster, through a PSX circuit breaker. Each booster has it's own power supply. The problem I'm seeing occurs when a locomotive crosses these power districts. While the loco is bridging the districts, the PSX's both trip. Pushing the loco past the gaps allows the breakers to reset and the everything is normal. I thought I might have reversed the polarity on one of the districts, so I switched them, but got the same results.


Bill Hastings

Re: Shorting across power districts

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Bill be sure to connect up booster common wires between the three boosters. For the 10 amp NCE PB110 units you need to open them up and connect up the grounding screw inside. Check the manual. Also verify the trip point of the PSX breakers are at an appropriate setting. Hopefully you are in O scale or larger to be using 10 amp boosters.

DonV

On Nov 27, 2014, at 9:42 AM, wrhastings@...<mailto:wrhastings@...> [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...<mailto:WiringForDCC@...>> wrote:




I'm trying to get our new club layout up and running for an upcoming holiday open-house. The mainline loop is broken into 3 power districts. Each district is fed by a NCE PB-110A booster, through a PSX circuit breaker. Each booster has it's own power supply. The problem I'm seeing occurs when a locomotive crosses these power districts. While the loco is bridging the districts, the PSX's both trip. Pushing the loco past the gaps allows the breakers to reset and the everything is normal. I thought I might have reversed the polarity on one of the districts, so I switched them, but got the same results.


Bill Hastings

Shorting across power districts

wrhastings@...
 

I'm trying to get our new club layout up and running for an upcoming holiday open-house. The mainline loop is broken into 3 power districts. Each district is fed by a NCE PB-110A booster, through a PSX circuit breaker. Each booster has it's own power supply. The problem I'm seeing occurs when a locomotive crosses these power districts. While the loco is bridging the districts, the PSX's both trip. Pushing the loco past the gaps allows the breakers to reset and the everything is normal. I thought I might have reversed the polarity on one of the districts, so I switched them, but got the same results.


Bill Hastings


STEPHEN LAMB v

Stephen Lamb
 

Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco

Mark Gurries
 

Len

I understand you point.  However if I was to do motor tuning, I would do it with the decoder installed so that the tuning is done working with the actual target motor.   Using a different motor to tune will not give you the results you want and you will have to re-tune again when you installed the decoder..

A better way to say this is that programming with a resistor for a motor load is fine but one should avoid doing any type of motor tuning until the decoder is installed a connected to the target motor.

As stated your "No No" falsely “implies" there is some bad electrical reason that can damage the decoder which I know you know is not true.


Everyone

From a pure resistance value point of view, the resistance value must allow enough current to pass the minimum programming acknowledge pulse current of 60ma but high enough so that it does not exceed the decoder current rating.

Stated another way, for a 1Amp decoder running on 12V, any resistance value between 12 and 200 ohms will work.

HOWEVER from a safest and practical thermal standpoint, I would ONLY use a 200 Ohms 1 Watt resistor* because going any lower in resistance value will cause the resistor to get hotter and require a physically larger resistor with a higher watt rating as well as increase the cost with nothing gained.  Using a resistor with a less than a 1 watt rating will potentially cause the resistor to burn up IF you decide to test the motor control after the programming is complete.   

EXCEPTION:  In cases where one is using a full decoder as a FUNCTION ONLY decoder to control lights such as installed in a caboose where there is no motor, then there is the option of using a much smaller resistor, such as a 1/4 watt rating, provided you follow this one RULE.    RULE: You enable the speed table and turn all the speed steps to zero.  That way if you attempt to run the decoder like a engine with speed commands, the motor output will remain at 0 and do nothing.  The only time the resistor will be used is on the programming track where the resistor will never generate any heat of any consequence when it is used to generate the acknowledge current pulse.

Hope this helps clarifies things for everyone.


On Nov 17, 2014, at 1:17 PM, len.jask@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

I use mostly ZIMO decoders and the no-no was through their USA distributor. A lot has to do with speed testing and back EMF that the decoder is looking for.  A resistor can't provide back EMF. I use an old chassis and have it set on test rollers. Since adjusting speed is part of the decoder programming why use a resistor? My logic.


Len Jaskiewicz


Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

Bob H <rehandjr@...>
 

Take care where the wire passes through the hole in the metal studs that the insulation does not wear off.  A grommet of some sort would be advised.

---- Original Message ----
From: "banjopaul2@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...>
Sent: 11/17/2014 5:25:05 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

 

I am building a new layout that will be raised and lowered by using a hoist system in my garage. To lower the weight of the benchwork I used metal studs. Can I drill holes in the metal studs and run the buss wires through the studs. Any help would greatly be appreciated.


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Re: Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

Michael Murray
 

You may want to consider installing bushings to prevent the wire’s insulation from potentially becoming damaged.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw7cavIpgm4

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 2:28 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

 

 

There should be no real issues as long as you use twisted pairs for the DCC busses and feeders and always run the wire pairs through the same hole in the metallic studs.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 3:23 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

 





I am building a new layout that will be raised and lowered by using a hoist system in my garage. To lower the weight of the benchwork I used metal studs. Can I drill holes in the metal studs and run the buss wires through the studs. Any help would greatly be appreciated.





Re: Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

john
 

Metal studs,
   I have never considered using metal studs. They have a wonderful strength / weight ratio and warpage shouldn't be a problem if it is braced. You may want to use the insulators and grommets that are commercially available because the cut out holes are usually sharp enough to cut meat, including fingers.
   How about keeping us informed on your progress, problems, and successes you have.


On Monday, November 17, 2014 5:27 PM, "'Vollrath, Don' dvollrath@... [WiringForDCC]" wrote:




There should be no real issues as long as you use twisted pairs for the DCC busses and feeders and always run the wire pairs through the same hole in the metallic studs.
DonV
 
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 3:23 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs
 



I am building a new layout that will be raised and lowered by using a hoist system in my garage. To lower the weight of the benchwork I used metal studs. Can I drill holes in the metal studs and run the buss wires through the studs. Any help would greatly be appreciated.







Re: Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

Glenn
 

I don’t know why, but an electrician was drilling holes through metal studs then inserting grommets even when running other wires through pre-punched holes. The wires he was running were small gauge, probably a sound system.

 

I had to ask. He said the pre-punched holes were “clean” while the drilled holes were ragged and could cut the insulation.

 

Glenn


From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 17:28
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

 




There should be no real issues as long as you use twisted pairs for the DCC busses and feeders and always run the wire pairs through the same hole in the metallic studs.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 3:23 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

 



I am building a new layout that will be raised and lowered by using a hoist system in my garage. To lower the weight of the benchwork I used metal studs. Can I drill holes in the metal studs and run the buss wires through the studs. Any help would greatly be appreciated.



 


Re: Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

There should be no real issues as long as you use twisted pairs for the DCC busses and feeders and always run the wire pairs through the same hole in the metallic studs.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 3:23 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

 




I am building a new layout that will be raised and lowered by using a hoist system in my garage. To lower the weight of the benchwork I used metal studs. Can I drill holes in the metal studs and run the buss wires through the studs. Any help would greatly be appreciated.




Buss Wiring Through Metal Studs

PAUL RISELL
 

I am building a new layout that will be raised and lowered by using a hoist system in my garage. To lower the weight of the benchwork I used metal studs. Can I drill holes in the metal studs and run the buss wires through the studs. Any help would greatly be appreciated.

Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco

jazzmanlj
 

I use mostly ZIMO decoders and the no-no was through their USA distributor. A lot has to do with speed testing and back EMF that the decoder is looking for.  A resistor can't provide back EMF. I use an old chassis and have it set on test rollers. Since adjusting speed is part of the decoder programming why use a resistor? My logic.


Len Jaskiewicz

Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco

dvollrath@...
 

Rich, If all you want to do is re-program the decoder address all you need to do is hook up pins 4 and 8 of the NMRA plug to the programming track (normally the black and red power pick-up wires). However, you cannot read the decoder without having a motor (or resistor load) also attached. You do not need to read the decoder in order to blindly program CVs on the programming track.

DonV.

Re: programing a decoder thats not in a loco

richg_1998@...
 

Many do it.
Give us the links you mention so we can all verify this data.

Rich