Date   
Re: Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

Rick Allison
 

Ed,


Thank you so much for the reply. It's great that you are rescuing the old layout and incorporating in a (HUGE!) new one. Wish I had that kind of space. My old layout is long gone 


Thanks also for the guidance on placement of the reverse protector; I'll review that and Don V.'s recommendation as well before moving forward. It's exactly why I joined the group.


Alas, I am a cheap SOB and am using SCARM for my layout plans (no where near as versatile as RTS, but pretty easy to learn and 100% free in beta form) so that precludes an exchange of files; but I do appreciate the offer.


Once again, thanks for weighing in on the reversing district.



Re: Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

Rick Allison
 

Don,


Thanks, you're very kind about the drawing. 


All your recommendations make good sense, and isolating at max train length in either direction from crossover B should work well, as I'm not looking to run anything over 90" max. Leaving the crossover A and the upper portions of B at matching polarity with the loops they connect to will simplify the set-up and lessen the need to worry about two trains conflicting an auto-reverser. Excellent.


Yes, I'm planning to use plenty of drops, and single controls for each of the crossovers, but am glad to hear that advice reinforced.


I will give some thought to the multi-operator scenario, though at the moment it's just me and mine. As for isolating the section under the overpass: I was under the impression that a DCC engine operating in a district that experiences a polarity reversal will continue to follow directional cab commands independent of polarity--what then is the advantage of isolating that area?


I may produce an updated drawing based on your (and Ed's) guidance and put it up to have you confirm I've understood properly, and if so, it may be of future use to anyone else crazy enough to try a layout like mine.


Again, thank you for the explanations & input. VERY helpful.


-Rick



Wiring a PIB100 with a 4pdt SWITCH

Elliott Janofsky <ejanofsky@...>
 

I’m having trouble wiring a PTB100 with a 4PDT turnout. I know th Black pr goes to the power supply of the command station of its own 15V500Am   source but do the Orange and yellow pr  go between the command station and switch. Thanks for any help . Elliott Janofsky

Re: DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?

Carl
 

Hello John:

If HO layouts are built on 4x8 sheets of plywood, why can't you cut the plywood into eight 2x2 modules?

I know it might not match any module standard, but could fit some modules in a 4x8 space.

My O-27 modules matched no standards but their own. I had great fun sharing them and they met my needs at the time.

Carl.

On 2/4/2014 9:17 PM, john.p.dunn@... wrote:
 
Guys,
   2x2 modules won't work, corners have to be 4x4 for a 2xX foot layout.
john

Re: DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?

terryintexas7@...
 

When we first started our module club we used 2x2 corners for ease of transport we later went to larger corners with bigger radius curves but 2x2 will work
Terry
 

In a message dated 2/6/2014 8:31:02 A.M. Central Standard Time, carl.blum@... writes:
 

Hello John:

If HO layouts are built on 4x8 sheets of plywood, why can't you cut the plywood into eight 2x2 modules?

I know it might not match any module standard, but could fit some modules in a 4x8 space.

My O-27 modules matched no standards but their own. I had great fun sharing them and they met my needs at the time.

Carl.

On 2/4/2014 9:17 PM, john.p.dunn@... wrote:
 
Guys,
   2x2 modules won't work, corners have to be 4x4 for a 2xX foot layout.
john

Re: Wiring a PIB100 with a 4pdt SWITCH

Tom in Texas
 

Most of the times I have seen a reference to a 4pdt switch, it is being used to create a isolated section of track between the layout and the programming track to prevent locomotives from being connected to both the programming track and the powered main tracks of the layout at the same time

Are you trying to use it this way or to way to operate your programming track with or without your PTB100? For what it is worth my PTB100 is always connected

Tom in Texas



Tom in Texas

Re: Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Rick,

You said “As for isolating the section under the overpass: I was under the impression that a DCC engine operating in a district that experiences a polarity reversal will continue to follow directional cab commands independent of polarity--what then is the advantage of isolating that area?”

You are totally correct in your understanding of train direction control with DCC. The only advantage of isolating a switching yard and powering it through a separate circuit breaker is that this is the area of the layout where operators tend to make mistakes and train cars are most likely to derail and cause short circuits. By isolating power to the tracks and switches in a yard with a separate circuit breaker (CB) district one operator can cause a track short circuit and power to trains on other parts of the layout being used by other operators or simply set up for continuous running will not be interrupted. This is a  hot issue on large club layouts. Some folks go overboard. There are arguments either way. But putting in insulated track joiners for sectionalized ‘block or district’ wiring is easy while you are first laying down the track. Cutting in track gaps and re-wiring is more difficult later, when you (may) decide to add CBs. Ditto for breaking the mainline into detection blocks for signaling.

 

DonV.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of allison.public@...
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 12:41 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

 




Don,

 

Thanks, you're very kind about the drawing. 

 

All your recommendations make good sense, and isolating at max train length in either direction from crossover B should work well, as I'm not looking to run anything over 90" max. Leaving the crossover A and the upper portions of B at matching polarity with the loops they connect to will simplify the set-up and lessen the need to worry about two trains conflicting an auto-reverser. Excellent.

 

Yes, I'm planning to use plenty of drops, and single controls for each of the crossovers, but am glad to hear that advice reinforced.

 

I will give some thought to the multi-operator scenario, though at the moment it's just me and mine. As for isolating the section under the overpass: I was under the impression that a DCC engine operating in a district that experiences a polarity reversal will continue to follow directional cab commands independent of polarity--what then is the advantage of isolating that area?

 

I may produce an updated drawing based on your (and Ed's) guidance and put it up to have you confirm I've understood properly, and if so, it may be of future use to anyone else crazy enough to try a layout like mine.

 

Again, thank you for the explanations & input. VERY helpful.

 

-Rick

 

 




Re: DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?

emrldsky
 

I built a 5 x 9 foot table for my son this past Christmas. Since I knew that he would need to move it from time to time, I built 4 each modules that could be clamped together to make the 5 x 9 table, or whatever shape he wanted. Hindsight shows me that it was a really good move to go to 5 x 9 instead of taking the simpler route of a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood. Plus transport is much easier.

 

He is using Kato HO Unitrack, so breaking down the table at the table interfaces is simplified.

 

Peace,

Mike G.

 

 

 

 

When we first started our module club we used 2x2 corners for ease of transport we later went to larger corners with bigger radius curves but 2x2 will work

Terry

 

In a message dated 2/6/2014 8:31:02 A.M. Central Standard Time, carl.blum@... writes:

 

Hello John:

If HO layouts are built on 4x8 sheets of plywood, why can't you cut the plywood into eight 2x2 modules?

I know it might not match any module standard, but could fit some modules in a 4x8 space.

My O-27 modules matched no standards but their own. I had great fun sharing them and they met my needs at the time.

Carl.

On 2/4/2014 9:17 PM, john.p.dunn@... wrote:

 

Guys,

   2x2 modules won't work, corners have to be 4x4 for a 2xX foot layout.

john

 

Re: Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

Flash Gordon
 

To all:

We all know that if you have a reverse loop, it has to be longer then the length of a train with lighted cars.

I have a situation where a yard is part of a wye. This yard will have lighted passenger cars or a caboose with markers.

My thinking is to is to isolate the whole yard with the wye and use a revereing circuit breaker to control it.

Any thoughts?

Ed S

Re: Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

That is a perfectly good plan Ed. There is nothing wrong with having the entire yard part of an auto-reversing section. When is a high current condition sensed by the AR/CB, it will first try to reverse track polarity (the A-R part) then if the high current condition doesn't go away it will trip out on the overcurrent of a track short. (the CB part). All done in a split second. There may be other issues if your yard is double ended or has multiple entrances when there is more than one loco in motion at a time.

Note also that if your yard is single ended stub/storage tracks fed through a single switch on the wye the polarity can be controlled by the direction of the turnout leading into it. Use a relay or the DPDT switches inside a Tortoise. No need for an expensive auto-reverser.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Ed S
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 11:50 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] RE: Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

To all:

We all know that if you have a reverse loop, it has to be longer then the length of a train with lighted cars.

I have a situation where a yard is part of a wye. This yard will have lighted passenger cars or a caboose with markers.

My thinking is to is to isolate the whole yard with the wye and use a revereing circuit breaker to control it.

Any thoughts?

Ed S





------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo Groups Links

Re: Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

Flash Gordon
 

Don,

Thanks for the confirmation. The wye is the only two points out of the yard district and the yard ends. I put it in so I could turn engines around.

I needed a circuit breaker for the yard and found one that included a reverser.

Ed S

At 01:14 PM 2/6/2014, you wrote:


That is a perfectly good plan Ed. There is nothing wrong with having the entire yard part of an auto-reversing section. When is a high current condition sensed by the AR/CB, it will first try to reverse track polarity (the A-R part) then if the high current condition doesn't go away it will trip out on the overcurrent of a track short. (the CB part). All done in a split second. There may be other issues if your yard is double ended or has multiple entrances when there is more than one loco in motion at a time.

Note also that if your yard is single ended stub/storage tracks fed through a single switch on the wye the polarity can be controlled by the direction of the turnout leading into it. Use a relay or the DPDT switches inside a Tortoise. No need for an expensive auto-reverser.

DonV

Re: DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?

john
 

Carl,
   A corner has to be a quarter the circumference of the circle (circle of track divided in half). Using the inside corner of your 2x2, the largest radius can only be around 20 inches and then only for you track is right on the edge of your modules. A second track would be about 17 inches/ maybe a tight 18, and so on. A 3x3 corner would give you almost a 36 inch radius for the outside track. With a 4x4 foot corner module you would have an 18 inch or better radius near the inside of your 2 foot module.  You could cookie cut the corner to minimize it some, you end up with a 6 sided module.
   For example, HO uses a 2 inch center but it has to increase to 2.5 in a curve because engines and cars hang over. You have to be at least an inch from the edge so if you had two tracks the inside track will be 1 + 2 +2.5 or 5.5 inches which makes the inside radius 24 -4.5 or 19.5 inches to the center of the inside track. You don't want track too close to the edge of any fall unless you plan to put in plastic guards. Graph paper is easier.
   I don't know the spacing of "O", "O-27", or O-N3, but I am sure it is more than double HO.
   I would suggest that you lay out your plan on graph paper, modules lay out nicely on it because the modules all have similar track layouts. Consider another problem or advantage, each module except the corner needs only two legs. When you go to train shows, look up the modular layouts, Ask the members where they screwed up and don't do that.
   Sorry so wordy.
john

From: Carl
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2014 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?



Hello John:

If HO layouts are built on 4x8 sheets of plywood, why can't you cut the plywood into eight 2x2 modules?

I know it might not match any module standard, but could fit some modules in a 4x8 space.

My O-27 modules matched no standards but their own. I had great fun sharing them and they met my needs at the time.

Carl.

On 2/4/2014 9:17 PM, john.p.dunn@... wrote:
 
Guys,
   2x2 modules won't work, corners have to be 4x4 for a 2xX foot layout.
john





Re: Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

Steve Haas
 

<<We all know that if you have a reverse loop, it has to be longer then the
length of a train with lighted cars.>>

<<I have a situation where a yard is part of a wye. This yard will have
lighted passenger cars or a caboose with markers.>>

<<My thinking is to is to isolate the whole yard with the wye and use a
reversing circuit breaker to control it.>>


Ed,

Don V. has given you a couple of good answers, they'll both work just fine.

There are, however, easier ways to handle this situation.

Your thoughts and Don's responses all center around reversing the yard on
that end of the wye.

Depending on how the other two legs of the wye connect with the rest of the
trackage, it may be easier to easier to use one of the other legs of the wye
for your reversing section.

Here's a simple example:

1) take a piece of paper and draw a large circle on it. At 11 o'clock and 1
o'clock, sketch in the two turnouts that split off the main and lead to the
yard you describe. Bring them down into the center of the layout, bring
them together at the third switch of the wye, and draw the yard below that.

2) Let's call the turnout at 11 o'clock turnout "A", the turnout at 1
0'clock "B", and the turnout that leads into the yard proper "C".

3) Cut double gaps between turnout "A" and "B" and "A" and "C", just to the
right of the frog of turnout "A".

4) Now move one train length counter clockwise from turnout "A" and place
another set of double gaps there. The length of track from this set of gaps
clockwise toward the two sets of gaps just beyond turnout "A" is your
reversing section. It's one train in length, and the resulting gaps are not
likely to be violated by another train.

Take the time to sketch it out - it works pretty good.


Best regards,


Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA

Re: Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

Flash Gordon
 

Steve,

Thanks for your reply. I understand how a conventional wye would work, but I am far from conventional.

Look in the photo section, if you list the albums by latest first my album should come up first. ( Ed S stuff).

Open the album and look at the "complete layout". At this point let me say my layout is geared to switching and making up trains. It will have two main tracks that will be kept clear while switching is taking place in the yards. DCC made this all possible.

At the bottom is the yard I am talking about. To the left is one leg of the wye and way over to the right is the other leg. You will see that there are two yards involved.

The left one is a passenger yard so I can back passenger cars into a station. The yard to the right is a freight yard for staging.

Neither leg is long enough for a lighted passenger train or a freight train with a lit caboose. Both legs need to lead into the yards so I can clear the main while cutting the cars.

My plan is to put gaps in the wye legs near the main line and consider all that yardage as one district, controlled by a circuit breaker / reverser. ( even a few tail light bulbs in critical areas). I am using an 8 amp booster for the whole layout with 4 amp circuit breakers for the large districts. Most of my engine are very old and some draw near one amp. So a lash-up or helper can draw two or three amps.

Once a train is in a yard, another train can enter the other yard so I could be working a passenger spotting and another person can be cutting freight cars.

I know it looks complicated but like I said I am not a conventional person.

Take a look and let me know if you see any errors in my logic. Next up is a triple cross over using two double slip switches and four turnouts that create another reverse.

Ed S

At 03:08 PM 2/6/2014, you wrote:



<<We all know that if you have a reverse loop, it has to be longer then the
length of a train with lighted cars.>>

<<I have a situation where a yard is part of a wye. This yard will have
lighted passenger cars or a caboose with markers.>>

<<My thinking is to is to isolate the whole yard with the wye and use a
reversing circuit breaker to control it.>>

Ed,

Don V. has given you a couple of good answers, they'll both work just fine.

There are, however, easier ways to handle this situation.

Your thoughts and Don's responses all center around reversing the yard on
that end of the wye.

Depending on how the other two legs of the wye connect with the rest of the
trackage, it may be easier to easier to use one of the other legs of the wye
for your reversing section.

Here's a simple example:

1) take a piece of paper and draw a large circle on it. At 11 o'clock and 1
o'clock, sketch in the two turnouts that split off the main and lead to the
yard you describe. Bring them down into the center of the layout, bring
them together at the third switch of the wye, and draw the yard below that.

2) Let's call the turnout at 11 o'clock turnout "A", the turnout at 1
0'clock "B", and the turnout that leads into the yard proper "C".

3) Cut double gaps between turnout "A" and "B" and "A" and "C", just to the
right of the frog of turnout "A".

4) Now move one train length counter clockwise from turnout "A" and place
another set of double gaps there. The length of track from this set of gaps
clockwise toward the two sets of gaps just beyond turnout "A" is your
reversing section. It's one train in length, and the resulting gaps are not
likely to be violated by another train.

Take the time to sketch it out - it works pretty good.

Best regards,

Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA

_

Re: Wiring a PIB100 with a 4pdt SWITCH

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

The use of a switch for the programming track is to allow you to alternately run Full DCC power OR Programming power/signals from the PTB100 on the same piece of track. One can simply use a DPDT switch so that the power for that track section comes from either the DCC bus system or the PTB100 programming booster. The basic idea is to be able to run a loco from normal parts of the layout directly onto the programming track. [No need to lift and adjust wheels.] But be aware that the multi-axle pick-up will temporarily connect DCC rail power onto the programming track as it rolls in under DCC power even when the toggle switch is set for 'programming'.

So the big question is... Will there be any damage to the PTB100 if one should connect full DCC track voltage power onto the programming track terminals? I for one am not willing to challenge that answer. You can create a rule and rely on your operators to NEVER allow a powered loco to run onto the programming track while the selector switch is set for programming [and you know how that will turn out], OR you can add positive protection to prevent that from happening by using another part of the same switch (3or4-PDT) to create a sufficient dead zone leading up to the programming track when the switch is set for programming so that cannot accidently happen.

My PTB100 is always connected also (to the switch). Run the loco in. flip the sw to Programming. Do whatever. Flip the sw back to Normal and run the loco out.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Tom
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 10:18 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Wiring a PIB100 with a 4pdt SWITCH

Most of the times I have seen a reference to a 4pdt switch, it is being used to create a isolated section of track between the layout and the programming track to prevent locomotives from being connected to both the programming track and the powered main tracks of the layout at the same time

Are you trying to use it this way or to way to operate your programming track with or without your PTB100? For what it is worth my PTB100 is always connected

Tom in Texas



Tom in Texas

------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo Groups Links

Re: Wiring a PIB100 with a 4pdt SWITCH

Elliott Janofsky <ejanofsky@...>
 

Don and others, thanks for responses. What I'm trying to do is get the PTB 100 wired with the 4PDT switch so when I throw the switch to place my programming track into programing mode from layout track mode after driving an engine onto it, the PBB100 goes on as well. I can' t determine where the leads are placed relative to ;the switch. I don't want to combine track power with the PTB power. I want to know where the leads of the PTB must be placed. Thanks, Elliott Janofsky

-----Original Message-----
From: Vollrath, Don
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 3:59 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Re: Wiring a PIB100 with a 4pdt SWITCH

The use of a switch for the programming track is to allow you to alternately run Full DCC power OR Programming power/signals from the PTB100 on the same piece of track. One can simply use a DPDT switch so that the power for that track section comes from either the DCC bus system or the PTB100 programming booster. The basic idea is to be able to run a loco from normal parts of the layout directly onto the programming track. [No need to lift and adjust wheels.] But be aware that the multi-axle pick-up will temporarily connect DCC rail power onto the programming track as it rolls in under DCC power even when the toggle switch is set for 'programming'.

So the big question is... Will there be any damage to the PTB100 if one should connect full DCC track voltage power onto the programming track terminals? I for one am not willing to challenge that answer. You can create a rule and rely on your operators to NEVER allow a powered loco to run onto the programming track while the selector switch is set for programming [and you know how that will turn out], OR you can add positive protection to prevent that from happening by using another part of the same switch (3or4-PDT) to create a sufficient dead zone leading up to the programming track when the switch is set for programming so that cannot accidently happen.

My PTB100 is always connected also (to the switch). Run the loco in. flip the sw to Programming. Do whatever. Flip the sw back to Normal and run the loco out.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Tom
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 10:18 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Wiring a PIB100 with a 4pdt SWITCH

Most of the times I have seen a reference to a 4pdt switch, it is being used to create a isolated section of track between the layout and the programming track to prevent locomotives from being connected to both the programming track and the powered main tracks of the layout at the same time

Are you trying to use it this way or to way to operate your programming track with or without your PTB100? For what it is worth my PTB100 is always connected

Tom in Texas



Tom in Texas

------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo Groups Links







------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo Groups Links

Re: DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?

Chuck Stiles
 

Carl

Another option to consider: see the pictures I posted of the tilted table construction, I am in the process of building to save space
The table fits thru a 36 wide door folded. its 5 x 8 but easily could be 5 x 9. I can roll it around the garage to get it out of the way, and it fits inside my trailer for transport. You just pull two pins and tilt it to the side.

Chuck



On Thursday, February 6, 2014 2:41 PM, "john.p.dunn@..." wrote:
 
Carl,
   A corner has to be a quarter the circumference of the circle (circle of track divided in half). Using the inside corner of your 2x2, the largest radius can only be around 20 inches and then only for you track is right on the edge of your modules. A second track would be about 17 inches/ maybe a tight 18, and so on. A 3x3 corner would give you almost a 36 inch radius for the outside track. With a 4x4 foot corner module you would have an 18 inch or better radius near the inside of your 2 foot module.  You could cookie cut the corner to minimize it some, you end up with a 6 sided module.
   For example, HO uses a 2 inch center but it has to increase to 2.5 in a curve because engines and cars hang over. You have to be at least an inch from the edge so if you had two tracks the inside track will be 1 + 2 +2.5 or 5.5 inches which makes the inside radius 24 -4.5 or 19.5 inches to the center of the inside track. You don't want track too close to the edge of any fall unless you plan to put in plastic guards. Graph paper is easier.
   I don't know the spacing of "O", "O-27", or O-N3, but I am sure it is more than double HO.
   I would suggest that you lay out your plan on graph paper, modules lay out nicely on it because the modules all have similar track layouts. Consider another problem or advantage, each module except the corner needs only two legs. When you go to train shows, look up the modular layouts, Ask the members where they screwed up and don't do that.
   Sorry so wordy.
john
From: Carl
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2014 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?



Hello John:

If HO layouts are built on 4x8 sheets of plywood, why can't you cut the plywood into eight 2x2 modules?

I know it might not match any module standard, but could fit some modules in a 4x8 space.

My O-27 modules matched no standards but their own. I had great fun sharing them and they met my needs at the time.

Carl.

On 2/4/2014 9:17 PM, john.p.dunn@... wrote:
 
Guys,
   2x2 modules won't work, corners have to be 4x4 for a 2xX foot layout.
john







Re: DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?

Carl
 

Hello John:

Let's try again. This 24" x24" module is for home use. Putting the outside track 2" from the edge would give you a 22" radius. The second track less 2.5" would be 19.5" radius, still larger than the 18" radius that comes with sets. Now this doesn't allow for bridge track, but even this bridge track could be curved.

The goal is to help someone have some fun at home. My suggestion was to build small modules and not be stuck with a 4x8 foot table. I built modules for O-27 track ( 13.5 radius ) and put the two mainlines 6" apart. I also displayed them at many train shows including two National Conventions. I do look at the other module set ups for ideas.

Build something. Have fun.

Carl.
Sent from my NOOK

john.p.dunn@... wrote:

 

Carl,
   A corner has to be a quarter the circumference of the circle (circle of track divided in half). Using the inside corner of your 2x2, the largest radius can only be around 20 inches and then only for you track is right on the edge of your modules. A second track would be about 17 inches/ maybe a tight 18, and so on. A 3x3 corner would give you almost a 36 inch radius for the outside track. With a 4x4 foot corner module you would have an 18 inch or better radius near the inside of your 2 foot module.  You could cookie cut the corner to minimize it some, you end up with a 6 sided module.
   For example, HO uses a 2 inch center but it has to increase to 2.5 in a curve because engines and cars hang over. You have to be at least an inch from the edge so if you had two tracks the inside track will be 1 + 2 +2.5 or 5.5 inches which makes the inside radius 24 -4.5 or 19.5 inches to the center of the inside track. You don't want track too close to the edge of any fall unless you plan to put in plastic guards. Graph paper is easier.
   I don't know the spacing of "O", "O-27", or O-N3, but I am sure it is more than double HO.
   I would suggest that you lay out your plan on graph paper, modules lay out nicely on it because the modules all have similar track layouts. Consider another problem or advantage, each module except the corner needs only two legs. When you go to train shows, look up the modular layouts, Ask the members where they screwed up and don't do that.
   Sorry so wordy.
john

From: Carl <carl.blum@...>
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2014 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?



Hello John:

If HO layouts are built on 4x8 sheets of plywood, why can't you cut the plywood into eight 2x2 modules?

I know it might not match any module standard, but could fit some modules in a 4x8 space.

My O-27 modules matched no standards but their own. I had great fun sharing them and they met my needs at the time.

Carl.

On 2/4/2014 9:17 PM, john.p.dunn@... wrote:
 
Guys,
   2x2 modules won't work, corners have to be 4x4 for a 2xX foot layout.
john





Re: DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?

john
 

Carl,
   I find it amazing how the O gauges can make those tight radii, I have a little narrow gauge G layout and it is the same. My mind set is on HO and big HO engines are not happy on small radius turns and to be honest I like panorama even on a portable layout.
   There is definitely room for everyone and their ideas. To be honest, I wouldn't be having nearly as much fun without what I have learned from everyone else.john

From: Carl Blum
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2014 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?



Hello John:

Let's try again. This 24" x24" module is for home use. Putting the outside track 2" from the edge would give you a 22" radius. The second track less 2.5" would be 19.5" radius, still larger than the 18" radius that comes with sets. Now this doesn't allow for bridge track, but even this bridge track could be curved.

The goal is to help someone have some fun at home. My suggestion was to build small modules and not be stuck with a 4x8 foot table. I built modules for O-27 track ( 13.5 radius ) and put the two mainlines 6" apart. I also displayed them at many train shows including two National Conventions. I do look at the other module set ups for ideas.

Build something. Have fun.

Carl.
Sent from my NOOK

john.p.dunn@... wrote:

 
Carl,
   A corner has to be a quarter the circumference of the circle (circle of track divided in half). Using the inside corner of your 2x2, the largest radius can only be around 20 inches and then only for you track is right on the edge of your modules. A second track would be about 17 inches/ maybe a tight 18, and so on. A 3x3 corner would give you almost a 36 inch radius for the outside track. With a 4x4 foot corner module you would have an 18 inch or better radius near the inside of your 2 foot module.  You could cookie cut the corner to minimize it some, you end up with a 6 sided module.
   For example, HO uses a 2 inch center but it has to increase to 2.5 in a curve because engines and cars hang over. You have to be at least an inch from the edge so if you had two tracks the inside track will be 1 + 2 +2.5 or 5.5 inches which makes the inside radius 24 -4.5 or 19.5 inches to the center of the inside track. You don't want track too close to the edge of any fall unless you plan to put in plastic guards. Graph paper is easier.
   I don't know the spacing of "O", "O-27", or O-N3, but I am sure it is more than double HO.
   I would suggest that you lay out your plan on graph paper, modules lay out nicely on it because the modules all have similar track layouts. Consider another problem or advantage, each module except the corner needs only two legs. When you go to train shows, look up the modular layouts, Ask the members where they screwed up and don't do that.
   Sorry so wordy.
john
From: Carl
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2014 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?



Hello John:

If HO layouts are built on 4x8 sheets of plywood, why can't you cut the plywood into eight 2x2 modules?

I know it might not match any module standard, but could fit some modules in a 4x8 space.

My O-27 modules matched no standards but their own. I had great fun sharing them and they met my needs at the time.

Carl.

On 2/4/2014 9:17 PM, john.p.dunn@... wrote:
 
Guys,
   2x2 modules won't work, corners have to be 4x4 for a 2xX foot layout.
john









Re: DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?

Carl
 

Hi Chuck:

I do like your tip up layout. Wiring with it up should be nice. And I like the storage too.

For now I have a "finished" layout.

Thanks, Carl.
Sent from my NOOK

Chuck Stiles <capnchuck@...> wrote:

 

Carl

Another option to consider: see the pictures I posted of the tilted table construction, I am in the process of building to save space
The table fits thru a 36 wide door folded. its 5 x 8 but easily could be 5 x 9. I can roll it around the garage to get it out of the way, and it fits inside my trailer for transport. You just pull two pins and tilt it to the side.

Chuck



On Thursday, February 6, 2014 2:41 PM, "john.p.dunn@..." <john.p.dunn@...> wrote:
 
Carl,
   A corner has to be a quarter the circumference of the circle (circle of track divided in half). Using the inside corner of your 2x2, the largest radius can only be around 20 inches and then only for you track is right on the edge of your modules. A second track would be about 17 inches/ maybe a tight 18, and so on. A 3x3 corner would give you almost a 36 inch radius for the outside track. With a 4x4 foot corner module you would have an 18 inch or better radius near the inside of your 2 foot module.  You could cookie cut the corner to minimize it some, you end up with a 6 sided module.
   For example, HO uses a 2 inch center but it has to increase to 2.5 in a curve because engines and cars hang over. You have to be at least an inch from the edge so if you had two tracks the inside track will be 1 + 2 +2.5 or 5.5 inches which makes the inside radius 24 -4.5 or 19.5 inches to the center of the inside track. You don't want track too close to the edge of any fall unless you plan to put in plastic guards. Graph paper is easier.
   I don't know the spacing of "O", "O-27", or O-N3, but I am sure it is more than double HO.
   I would suggest that you lay out your plan on graph paper, modules lay out nicely on it because the modules all have similar track layouts. Consider another problem or advantage, each module except the corner needs only two legs. When you go to train shows, look up the modular layouts, Ask the members where they screwed up and don't do that.
   Sorry so wordy.
john
From: Carl <carl.blum@...>
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2014 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?



Hello John:

If HO layouts are built on 4x8 sheets of plywood, why can't you cut the plywood into eight 2x2 modules?

I know it might not match any module standard, but could fit some modules in a 4x8 space.

My O-27 modules matched no standards but their own. I had great fun sharing them and they met my needs at the time.

Carl.

On 2/4/2014 9:17 PM, john.p.dunn@... wrote:
 
Guys,
   2x2 modules won't work, corners have to be 4x4 for a 2xX foot layout.
john