Date   
Re: Coach Lighting

Carl
 

Hi Gang:

Would these 6 cent diodes work?

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/1N4937/1-AMP-600-VOLT-FAST-RECOVERY-RECTIFIER/1.html

I reuse a lot of things, but some
new items aren't expensive and just easier.

Carl.

On 2/4/2014 9:35 AM, Ed S wrote:
 

Dick,

You just made life a whole lot easier. I have to try that out.
Gleaning those "Current Limiting Diodes" from the cheap led tapes
would be worth it. I think you could just cut the tape around the
"CLD" and use as is.

Ed S


Re: Coach Lighting

Flash Gordon
 

CARL,

You are correct but the part we are stealing is also a current limiting resistor so the LED's will work on 12V.  A diode and a resistor in  one  package.

Ed S


At 10:39 AM 2/4/2014, you wrote:
 

Hi Gang:

Would these 6 cent diodes work?

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/1N4937/1-AMP-600-VOLT-FAST-RECOVERY-RECTIFIER/1.html

I reuse a lot of things, but some new items aren't expensive and just easier.

Carl.

On 2/4/2014 9:35 AM, Ed S wrote:
 

Dick,

You just made life a whole lot easier. I have to try that out.
Gleaning those "Current Limiting Diodes" from the cheap led tapes
would be worth it. I think you could just cut the tape around the
"CLD" and use as is.

Ed S

Re: Coach Lighting

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Yes, those diodes will work,.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Carl
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 9:40 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Coach Lighting

 



Hi Gang:

Would these 6 cent diodes work?

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/1N4937/1-AMP-600-VOLT-FAST-RECOVERY-RECTIFIER/1.html

I reuse a lot of things, but some new items aren't expensive and just easier.

Carl.

On 2/4/2014 9:35 AM, Ed S wrote:

 

Dick,

You just made life a whole lot easier. I have to try that out.
Gleaning those "Current Limiting Diodes" from the cheap led tapes
would be worth it. I think you could just cut the tape around the
"CLD" and use as is.

Ed S





Re: DCC journey

Mark Gurries
 

Your not stuck with the large default LCD based hand controller (ProCab).  NCE has 5 smaller throttles to choose that are all about running trains.

On Feb 3, 2014, at 4:56 PM, microrails@... wrote:



Dan hear, I have both systems.  I started of with a Digitrax Cheif, added radio.  A fiend had a NCE system and I ended up buying the NCE Power Pro with radio, added a NCE Power Cab with radio.  I ended up giving my Digitrax system to my son.  The only thing I don't like about the NCE system is The size of the hand controller. Thats my only complaint. 
Dan in Longview, WA.


From: "William Teeters" <cozyflyr9398@...>
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Monday, February 3, 2014 3:43:02 PM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] DCC journey


That's great but, would you consider Digitrax?. Its amongst  the most popular DCC system out there. It can be run as simply or as complex as you can imagine. 
Sites you can visit are DCCfor everyone, Digitrax of course and DCC-Sound. Great enthueism!, Look at different systems before you make that purchase. Good Luck Bill Teeters Chicago,Peoria and Western ho RR. as seen on RockRail.org.


From: Bruce Bailey
To: "WiringForDCC@..."  
Sent: Monday, February 3, 2014 4:25 PM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] DCC journey

 
Hello,
I already built the table(4x8) and I'm stuck. I'm very patient (2 years and counting), my wife has given me the thumbs up sign. I was going to just DC but when I caught a glimpse of DCC I was hooked. Here's the question: Should I purchase a Bachmann commander 00501 DCC ready set or wait and piece together a better set?
P.s. My has been so great in my endeavor I want to share in the construction.
Thanks again,
Bruce Bailey

Sent from my iPod






Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: Coach Lighting

Joseph Pyland <jpyland@...>
 

Carl,

 

This is the same, and if you want less than 100 they are 5 cents:

 

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Semiconductors/1N4937-E3-54/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtbRapU8LlZD0HbIjlpuZ44w5SbTnHgxIc%3d

 

BTW a 100 are 4.1 cents each.

 

Joe Pyland

Hewitt TX

 

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Carl
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 09:40
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Coach Lighting

 

 

Hi Gang:

Would these 6 cent diodes work?

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/1N4937/1-AMP-600-VOLT-FAST-RECOVERY-RECTIFIER/1.html

I reuse a lot of things, but some new items aren't expensive and just easier.

Carl.

On 2/4/2014 9:35 AM, Ed S wrote:

 

Dick,

You just made life a whole lot easier. I have to try that out.
Gleaning those "Current Limiting Diodes" from the cheap led tapes
would be worth it. I think you could just cut the tape around the
"CLD" and use as is.

Ed S

 

Re: Power Pax ?

terryintexas7@...
 

I have a Zephyr with 3 UT-4 throttles although i have infrared i do not use it
 
I bought the powerpax because the Zephyr didn't have the power to program the sound decoders of QSI and Tsunami
I've used it for 3 years and programmed more than 4 dozen locos
 
I may have shorted it out or it died of old age
 
I ordered a new one
 
 

In a message dated 2/4/2014 3:04:39 P.M. Central Standard Time, trains@... writes:
 

Terry,

At our club we are using a Digitrax system and was having intermittent issues using the Power Pax. We figured out that it would not work using the wireless radio but would work every time if we were plugged directly into loconet. I assume this is probably a Digitrax issue except for the fact that we can program off the programming track using the wireless without the Power Pax connected.

Not sure which system you have but thought I would share this.

 

 

Gary

Re: Coach lighting

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Yes. Using a bridge rectifier corrects for either track polarity and protects the LEDs from reverse voltage.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Thomas Cockle
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 10:01 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Coach lighting

 




I use a bridge rectifier ahead of the LED lighting (so that when I run at my DC-only club the lights work in both directions).   Since a bridge rectifier is actually four diodes, doesn't this solve the reverse voltage problem as well?

Or should I add another diode?

Tom Cockle

McKinleyville CA

 

 

Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:39 pm (PST) . Posted by:

"Ed S" ed.kolt

Max,

Thanks that makes sense. I will include a diode if I decide to power 
LEDs from the track.

Ed S

At 10:14 PM 1/29/2014, you wrote:
>
>
>LED's will stand only a few volts (5-7) in reverse from the normal 
>polarity for lighting them. If on DCC they are under reverse voltage 
>half the time. If you have 2 or 3 in series the reverse voltage 
>might divide evenly, but very unlikely, so it's best to prevent 
>stressing the LED's by adding a regular diode as well. These are 
>usually have minimum reverse rating of at least 59 volts so more 
>than adequate for DCC track voltage levels. And yes someone may be 
>using them without diodes and so far nothing happened, but that's no 
>substitute for a little proper engineering.
>
>
>
>Max




Re: Coach lighting

Flash Gordon
 

I think Don meant no you do not need a fifth diode.

Ed S


At 04:30 PM 2/4/2014, you wrote:
 

Yes. Using a bridge rectifier corrects for either track polarity and protects the LEDs from reverse voltage.

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [ mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Thomas Cockle
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 10:01 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Coach lighting

 




I use a bridge rectifier ahead of the LED lighting (so that when I run at my DC-only club the lights work in both directions).   Since a bridge rectifier is actually four diodes, doesn't this solve the reverse voltage problem as well?

Or should I add another diode?

Tom Cockle

McKinleyville CA

 

Re: DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?

john
 

Guys,
   2x2 modules won't work, corners have to be 4x4 for a 2xX foot layout.
john
   rom: Carl
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Tuesday, February 4, 2014 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?



Hello:

Another way to start a layout is Modules. You could build four 2x2 corners and two 2x4 straight modules. Each module you build will be better than the last until you replace the first with something better. Till then you can move the parts around to fill any room, or your back yard. This is what I did. I had modules that could build a 14' x 42' with a turntable and a 9 track yard. I ran a lot of trains. Then my dream layout construction caught up to where I needed the turntable. I gave the modules to the local club so they had something to run. I learned a lot and gained many skills.

I have a major Digitrax control system and it works fine for me. I like the size of the UT-4 controllers and they do everything I wish. The radio system is OK too.

Good luck, Carl.





Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

Rick Allison
 

I'm putting together my first layout in 40+ years-and I have a couple of wiring questions. I've read through Alan's website but have not found an example that matches my situation, so before I build it I thought it best to come here for a reality check.

The layout is a fairly simple 5x9 consisting of two concentric loops surrounding a figure 8. There is a Walthers/Shinohara "DCC-Friendly" double-crossover connecting the concentric loops at the 6 o'clock position, but wiring that should be pretty straightforward. Where it gets tricky is this:

There is also a double crossover between the inner loop and the left-hand lobe of the figure 8, at about the 11 o'clock position. The top of the right-hand lobe of the 8 is elevated over/above the inner loop, and there is a double-crossover between that right-hand lobe and the outer loop at about the 1 o'clock position.

Both of those double-crossovers each use a Walthers/Shinohara curved turnout plus three Atlas turnouts tied together with a 45-degree crossover. (See file HORRTG Layout Polarity Plan.jpg.)

My main question is: With insulating joiners separating the 45-degree crossovers from their respective inner and outer loops, can I use a single auto-reverser (like a Digitrax AR1) between my booster/bus and the figure 8, thereby reversing polarity on the entire figure 8 when an engine crosses over to or from either the inner or outer loops? Or do I need an auto-reverser near each of those double-crossovers? Or...?

Secondary question--although it's a small layout running 3 engines tops, is it worth setting up those two crossovers in such a way as to prevent two engines hitting the reversing figure 8 at more or less the same time (wiring the switches to ensure only one crossover can diverge at a time, or wiring the crossovers with a sensor so that if one is in use the other is de-powered, for example?).
 
Sorry for the lengthy description; hopefully I've got the ''HORRTG Layout Polarity Plan' file or Picture uploaded correctly to better explain what I'm trying to do...

Thanks in advance for your guidance,

- Rick

Re: Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

Flash Gordon
 

Rick,


We seem to be on the same "track", I am also returning to HO after decades away. 


We both have a 5 x 9 area. Mine was first created back in the 90's with my sons. When they left the layout went up in the barn rafters for about 15 years. After retiring I decided to redo it last year.'


See drawing in (Ed S stuff).  I do not have any reverses in my 5x9, but another drawing shows where I will be adding a little more track.  The new section will have a reverse loop, a wye and a double cross over between 2 main tracks. So I have reverses to deal with.


From reading an experimenting I have decided to reverse protect whole districts. 


I started layout in the program RTS 8.0 which shows wiring conflicts and resolved those. Now I am using XTrkCAd 4.03a so I can work on clearances.


Looking at your lay out I see the reverse loop in the middle. I would put a reverse protector to the left of switch 7 and protect that whole district. Then gap all the track leading into that district.


If your are using RTS 8 you can send me the file and I can try it out and I can send you mine if your are interested.


Ed S

Re: Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Rick,

You have done well to draw out the track plan using different colors to identify rail polarity. Note that one must traverse both the A and B double crossovers in order to reverse the direction of a train. It looks easier to me to isolate the polarity reversing issue at crossover B.

 

1.       At crossover B Provide isolating joiners at both frog rails on both of the lower turnouts leading to the diamond. The upper turnouts and the diamond of B remain fixed at the polarity of the outer loop.

2.       Determine the maximum length of a train. Follow the inner loop tracks of the figure 8 from crossover B about that same distance in both directions from B. This is where you need to place additional isolating joiners or gaps on both rails for the minimum practical length of auto-reversing track.

3.       Going CW from B, I would put insulating joiners at the point end of the siding turnout at the 6 o’clock position of the loop. If that is not far enough from B, put them at the point end of the three-way turnout, keeping the lower turnout and siding as part of the isolated loop.

4.       Going CCW from B, I would place isolating gaps past the overpass, maybe near the 5 or 6 o’clock position of the left loop of the figure 8… or even at the turnout near the 10 o’clock position.

5.       That isolated track segment, including the two lower turnouts at B, form the polarity reversing section. Wire those tracks to the AR-1 auto-reverser.

6.       All other tracks on the layout including crossover C are constant polarity. Be sure to provide plenty of track droppers for adequate DCC connections.

 

You could interlock the double crossovers of A and B, but it is probably not worth the effort. That would also prevent the opportunity of a long continuous single train run overall of the mainline tracks in both directions.

For simplicity I recommend providing a single PB or toggle switch to select ‘straight’ or X-over for all 4 motor controlled turnouts at each of the double crossovers. Then there is no need to fiddle with multiple switches.  

 

If you plan on multiple operators. It might pay in the long run to further isolate the figure 8 loop into two pieces by adding insulating joiners at B on the straight track between the two lower turnouts. For now wire those tracks up to the single AR-1. But in the future you may want to add a 2nd AR-1 for independent multiple train operations at the industry tracks while another train uses the overpass. You may also want to isolate the yard under the overpass from the A crossover, and feed it via an electronic CB protected district.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Rick Allison
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 9:43 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

 




I'm putting together my first layout in 40+ years-and I have a couple of wiring questions. I've read through Alan's website but have not found an example that matches my situation, so before I build it I thought it best to come here for a reality check.

 

The layout is a fairly simple 5x9 consisting of two concentric loops surrounding a figure 8. There is a Walthers/Shinohara "DCC-Friendly" double-crossover connecting the concentric loops at the 6 o'clock position, but wiring that should be pretty straightforward. Where it gets tricky is this:

 

There is also a double crossover between the inner loop and the left-hand lobe of the figure 8, at about the 11 o'clock position. The top of the right-hand lobe of the 8 is elevated over/above the inner loop, and there is a double-crossover between that right-hand lobe and the outer loop at about the 1 o'clock position.

 

Both of those double-crossovers each use a Walthers/Shinohara curved turnout plus three Atlas turnouts tied together with a 45-degree crossover. (See file HORRTG Layout Polarity Plan.jpg.)

 

My main question is: With insulating joiners separating the 45-degree crossovers from their respective inner and outer loops, can I use a single auto-reverser (like a Digitrax AR1) between my booster/bus and the figure 8, thereby reversing polarity on the entire figure 8 when an engine crosses over to or from either the inner or outer loops? Or do I need an auto-reverser near each of those double-crossovers? Or...?

 

Secondary question--although it's a small layout running 3 engines tops, is it worth setting up those two crossovers in such a way as to prevent two engines hitting the reversing figure 8 at more or less the same time (wiring the switches to ensure only one crossover can diverge at a time, or wiring the crossovers with a sensor so that if one is in use the other is de-powered, for example?).

 

Sorry for the lengthy description; hopefully I've got the ''HORRTG Layout Polarity Plan' file or Picture uploaded correctly to better explain what I'm trying to do...

 

Thanks in advance for your guidance,

 

- Rick

 




Re: Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

Rick Allison
 

Ed,


Thank you so much for the reply. It's great that you are rescuing the old layout and incorporating in a (HUGE!) new one. Wish I had that kind of space. My old layout is long gone 


Thanks also for the guidance on placement of the reverse protector; I'll review that and Don V.'s recommendation as well before moving forward. It's exactly why I joined the group.


Alas, I am a cheap SOB and am using SCARM for my layout plans (no where near as versatile as RTS, but pretty easy to learn and 100% free in beta form) so that precludes an exchange of files; but I do appreciate the offer.


Once again, thanks for weighing in on the reversing district.



Re: Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

Rick Allison
 

Don,


Thanks, you're very kind about the drawing. 


All your recommendations make good sense, and isolating at max train length in either direction from crossover B should work well, as I'm not looking to run anything over 90" max. Leaving the crossover A and the upper portions of B at matching polarity with the loops they connect to will simplify the set-up and lessen the need to worry about two trains conflicting an auto-reverser. Excellent.


Yes, I'm planning to use plenty of drops, and single controls for each of the crossovers, but am glad to hear that advice reinforced.


I will give some thought to the multi-operator scenario, though at the moment it's just me and mine. As for isolating the section under the overpass: I was under the impression that a DCC engine operating in a district that experiences a polarity reversal will continue to follow directional cab commands independent of polarity--what then is the advantage of isolating that area?


I may produce an updated drawing based on your (and Ed's) guidance and put it up to have you confirm I've understood properly, and if so, it may be of future use to anyone else crazy enough to try a layout like mine.


Again, thank you for the explanations & input. VERY helpful.


-Rick



Wiring a PIB100 with a 4pdt SWITCH

Elliott Janofsky <ejanofsky@...>
 

I’m having trouble wiring a PTB100 with a 4PDT turnout. I know th Black pr goes to the power supply of the command station of its own 15V500Am   source but do the Orange and yellow pr  go between the command station and switch. Thanks for any help . Elliott Janofsky

Re: DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?

Carl
 

Hello John:

If HO layouts are built on 4x8 sheets of plywood, why can't you cut the plywood into eight 2x2 modules?

I know it might not match any module standard, but could fit some modules in a 4x8 space.

My O-27 modules matched no standards but their own. I had great fun sharing them and they met my needs at the time.

Carl.

On 2/4/2014 9:17 PM, john.p.dunn@... wrote:
 
Guys,
   2x2 modules won't work, corners have to be 4x4 for a 2xX foot layout.
john

Re: DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?

terryintexas7@...
 

When we first started our module club we used 2x2 corners for ease of transport we later went to larger corners with bigger radius curves but 2x2 will work
Terry
 

In a message dated 2/6/2014 8:31:02 A.M. Central Standard Time, carl.blum@... writes:
 

Hello John:

If HO layouts are built on 4x8 sheets of plywood, why can't you cut the plywood into eight 2x2 modules?

I know it might not match any module standard, but could fit some modules in a 4x8 space.

My O-27 modules matched no standards but their own. I had great fun sharing them and they met my needs at the time.

Carl.

On 2/4/2014 9:17 PM, john.p.dunn@... wrote:
 
Guys,
   2x2 modules won't work, corners have to be 4x4 for a 2xX foot layout.
john

Re: Wiring a PIB100 with a 4pdt SWITCH

Tom in Texas
 

Most of the times I have seen a reference to a 4pdt switch, it is being used to create a isolated section of track between the layout and the programming track to prevent locomotives from being connected to both the programming track and the powered main tracks of the layout at the same time

Are you trying to use it this way or to way to operate your programming track with or without your PTB100? For what it is worth my PTB100 is always connected

Tom in Texas



Tom in Texas

Re: Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Rick,

You said “As for isolating the section under the overpass: I was under the impression that a DCC engine operating in a district that experiences a polarity reversal will continue to follow directional cab commands independent of polarity--what then is the advantage of isolating that area?”

You are totally correct in your understanding of train direction control with DCC. The only advantage of isolating a switching yard and powering it through a separate circuit breaker is that this is the area of the layout where operators tend to make mistakes and train cars are most likely to derail and cause short circuits. By isolating power to the tracks and switches in a yard with a separate circuit breaker (CB) district one operator can cause a track short circuit and power to trains on other parts of the layout being used by other operators or simply set up for continuous running will not be interrupted. This is a  hot issue on large club layouts. Some folks go overboard. There are arguments either way. But putting in insulated track joiners for sectionalized ‘block or district’ wiring is easy while you are first laying down the track. Cutting in track gaps and re-wiring is more difficult later, when you (may) decide to add CBs. Ditto for breaking the mainline into detection blocks for signaling.

 

DonV.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of allison.public@...
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 12:41 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Reality Check Needed - See File and/or Read Description

 




Don,

 

Thanks, you're very kind about the drawing. 

 

All your recommendations make good sense, and isolating at max train length in either direction from crossover B should work well, as I'm not looking to run anything over 90" max. Leaving the crossover A and the upper portions of B at matching polarity with the loops they connect to will simplify the set-up and lessen the need to worry about two trains conflicting an auto-reverser. Excellent.

 

Yes, I'm planning to use plenty of drops, and single controls for each of the crossovers, but am glad to hear that advice reinforced.

 

I will give some thought to the multi-operator scenario, though at the moment it's just me and mine. As for isolating the section under the overpass: I was under the impression that a DCC engine operating in a district that experiences a polarity reversal will continue to follow directional cab commands independent of polarity--what then is the advantage of isolating that area?

 

I may produce an updated drawing based on your (and Ed's) guidance and put it up to have you confirm I've understood properly, and if so, it may be of future use to anyone else crazy enough to try a layout like mine.

 

Again, thank you for the explanations & input. VERY helpful.

 

-Rick

 

 




Re: DCC journey What is best for your Father's Son?

emrldsky
 

I built a 5 x 9 foot table for my son this past Christmas. Since I knew that he would need to move it from time to time, I built 4 each modules that could be clamped together to make the 5 x 9 table, or whatever shape he wanted. Hindsight shows me that it was a really good move to go to 5 x 9 instead of taking the simpler route of a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood. Plus transport is much easier.

 

He is using Kato HO Unitrack, so breaking down the table at the table interfaces is simplified.

 

Peace,

Mike G.

 

 

 

 

When we first started our module club we used 2x2 corners for ease of transport we later went to larger corners with bigger radius curves but 2x2 will work

Terry

 

In a message dated 2/6/2014 8:31:02 A.M. Central Standard Time, carl.blum@... writes:

 

Hello John:

If HO layouts are built on 4x8 sheets of plywood, why can't you cut the plywood into eight 2x2 modules?

I know it might not match any module standard, but could fit some modules in a 4x8 space.

My O-27 modules matched no standards but their own. I had great fun sharing them and they met my needs at the time.

Carl.

On 2/4/2014 9:17 PM, john.p.dunn@... wrote:

 

Guys,

   2x2 modules won't work, corners have to be 4x4 for a 2xX foot layout.

john