Date   
Re: Cat-5e

Carl
 

Hi Gang:

The thing I like about the RJ Connectors is they are easy to replace. If you put one on "wrong" just cut it off and try again!

I used them for all my turnout motors and the controls. Easy to replace either without any rewiring.

Carl.

Re: Cat-5e

Robert Morrison <Robmorrison@...>
 

Mark,

My Lenz system has "LA152" throttle panels that connect with what Lenz calls a 80160 or 80161 cable.
The correct cable is packaged with the LA152.
It is 6 conductor but only 4 wires are used.
Do you know what a more common term for this would be? RJ-?? something.

Thanks,
Rob Morrison

Re: Cat-5e

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

You are confusing the word CABLE with what RJ-x style connectors are on the ends.

 

CAT-xy CABLES are used for computer-computer communication links (Ethernet, etc) and have 4 twisted pairs of 8 wires inside for improved noise immunity from electrical interference. The additional number+letter designations relate to other construction techniques of the wire that supposedly rate it up to a certain signal transmission speed rating in MHz. There also are other varieties for thermal or fire resistant environments.

 

The ordinary Telco type cables you find in the hardware store are flat (or round) but do not contain twisted pairs. Various AWG sizes also exist.

 

RJ style connectors are named to identify the number of wire space width and having 2, 4, 6 or 8 actual connections inside.

 

Is CAT rated cable better than Telco types? Technically… Yes.

Is there any real advantage to using CAT rated cable in the MRR industry? Probably not unless you have runs that are  100’s of feet long and have evidence of noise interference. The DCC control and cab buss communication frequencies involved are nowhere near the MHz range where CAT style wiring would help.  

 

Sticking with Telco style flat cables with RJ connectors is the lowest cost solution. If it ain’t broke, throwing money at it to convert to CAT rated cabling will only help empty your wallet.

 

DonV

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of lleeblues@...
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 11:01 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Cat-5e

 



For some reason I can not find any file on the difference between RJ-12 cable and CAT-5e cable for cab buss. I know this subject5 has been covered before.

 I would appreciate any info available. I don't know if I need CAT-5e or stay with RJ-12.

Thanks in advance.

 

Leonard Lee Davis




Re: Cat-5e - Update

Robert Heroux
 

Glenn -

You are 100% correct on what you wrote.  We are working on a converter that you will be able to use "CATx" cables and used them with Digitrax and NCE.  This goes with our new product lines to make layout wiring easier not only for the "newbie" but for an experienced modeler as well.  Most of us in model railroading are not electrical/electronic masterminds and that is what is behind the new ACCU-LITES, Inc.  I am using my 30 years of being an engineer for AT&T to help model railroading become easier in this digital age!  My home layout is the best test bed for all of this too!  Makes my life easy so I can RUN trains!

Thanks!

Bob

On Oct 1, 2013, at 6:30 AM, Glenn <ghazel@...> wrote:







Robert Heroux
ACCU-LITES, Inc.
Your DCC Center
118 S. Main St. STE 5
Wauconda, IL 60084

Phone: 847.224.7914
FAX: 847.487.2089
NMRA Member # 143811


Re: Cat-5e - Update

Glenn
 

RJ refers to the connector not the cable. “Cat” refers to the cable and its ability (speed) to transmit data. It does not refer to the number of conductors in the cable. The Cat 5 cable is actually a Cat6 cable that was marketed before the Cat6 standards were in place.

 

Unfortunately networking gurus have fallen into the habit of referring to “Cat” cables when they should call them “RJ” referring to the jack. Cat cables do not always end in RJ connectors. My printer cable is Cat5 with a Centronics connector on one end and a DB25 on the other.

 

Most networking and Telco cables are straight through meaning the pin configuration on both ends are the same: 1-1, 2-2, 6-6. If they are reversed 1-6, 2-5, etc then it is called a crossover cable. Unfortunately manufacturers are lax in identifying these cables and specific use cables beyond the packaging making it hard to identify a loose cable.

 

Networking cables are not always round. I have seen them as flat and rolled. The rolled variety is a flat cable that has been rolled into a round shape with a hollow core, most often around a rope core.

 

Most 4-conductor telephone cables are RJ11, but there is a smaller RJ9, that is that coiled cable from the telephone to the handset on corded phones. These will fit into an RJ11 socket and make contact, but they will be loose.

 

RJ12 is 6-conductor. This size is typically used in Key System telephone networks. To confuse things, as Mark stated, the RJ12’s are wired differently. Actually they are RJ13, RJ14, and RJ25 cables all using the RJ12 plug. They are wired differently depending on where they are used in an office telephone system.

 

The RJ45 has become the standard computer networking connector; most applications use the same pin configuration so different cables are not required. Adaptations are made within the attached devices. This make for less expensive cabling.

 

Glenn

 


From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Mark Gurries
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 03:42
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Cat-5e

 




To answer your specific questions, the Cat Cables  and the RJ12 cables are NOT alike at all.  Both the wiring and the plugs are not compatible with each other. 

 

What DCC system are you using?  The DCC system will determine the type of cables you need to expand the cab/throttle bus of the DCC system.

 

CAT or any ethernet (CAT5, CAT5e & CAT6) cable uses a ROUND 8 conductor cable with a larger 8 conductor telco plug.  They are wired Pin1 to Pin1.  The only DCC system that uses this type of cable is MRC.  MRC also allows use of RJ45 cables too.  See notes below.

 

RJ11 is a flat 4 conductor cable that use 4 conductors of a 6 conductor telco plug.  The cable can be wired both in pin1 to pin 1form  or flipped as in Pin 1 to Pin6.   The only DCC system that uses this cable is EasyDCC.

 

RJ12 is a flat 6 conductor conductor cable that use a 6 conductor telco plug.  A TRUE RJ12 cable is only wired Pin1 to Pin1.    This cable is used by NCE and Digitrax.

 

 

 

NOTES:

 

1) RJ11 is your common everyday telephone cable you can fine at any store that carries telephone supplies.  RJ11 is a telephone code name/term for this type of cabling.   Technically RJ11 is supposed to be wired Pin1 one to Pin1 per the RJ specifications.   But the specification allows for a flipped cable (Pin1 to Pin6) in they way it is designed.

 

2)  RJ12 is NOT a telephone company term.  It evolved as an data industry term to show that it is wired differently than a RJ11 cable.   Be aware than many time RJ12 cable are mis-identified as RJ11 cables.    That comes about only because you can use a RJ12 in a RJ11 setup and it will work but the reverse is not true.  At first glance at RJ12 may look to be the same as the RJ11 but upon closer inspection you will see the cable is wider/fatter because of the extra two wires. The RJ12 is sometimes called a RJ11 Data Cable since it is used in low speed data systems unlike Ethernet.  

 

3) RJ11-6.   You can get RJ12 Cables incorrectly wired in Pin1 to Pin6 format if your not careful.  They may be called RJ11-6 cables.  Technically such cables will never work with NCE and also run the risk of damaging NCE throttles but in practice it does not happen.  These cables will work with Digitrax but can cause other side effect problems such a flipped booster phasing or in some cases will not allow some digitrax devices to work correctly such as the BDL-16 and BDL-168.  A RJ11-6 cable will work in a RJ11 telephone setup just like the RJ12 will work.

 

4) RJ45 cable is not a CAT cable but uses the same 8 conductor telco connector.  RJ45 cables use a very wide 8 conductor flat cable that looks like a oversize telephone cable.  RJ45 is a technical term used by the telephone company.  This form of a cable will also work on MRC setups.  The term RJ45 cable is often incorrectly associated with CAT cables for the similar reasons R12 and RJ11 cables are mixed up.

 

5) NCE is now offering a new line of cab bus products that use the CAT cables for the layout side of the cab bus wiring.   NCE is attempting to allow on to use the cheaper and more common standard CAT cables to make the cab bus wiring easier.   RJ12 cables are harder to find and one needs to worry about the proper Pin1 to Pin1 wiring of a RJ12 cable when purchasing them.   The older RJ12 versions are still supported.

 

6) RJ means Registered Jack which is a telephone industry term.  It describes a level of wired telephone service as in how many telephone lines (hence number of wires) the connection it will support.   It does not actually state the connectors to be used   The common connectors we associated with RJ11, Rj12 and RJ45 cables are actually part of larger modular connector system that included the flat cable.  This connection system allowed fast, easy and inexpensive cable construction.  These "modern" connection system came long after the RJ definitions were set.

 

 

 

On Sep 30, 2013, at 9:00 PM, <lleeblues@...> <lleeblues@...> wrote:





For some reason I can not find any file on the difference between RJ-12 cable and CAT-5e cable for cab buss. I know this subject5 has been covered before.

 

 I would appreciate any info available. I don't know if I need CAT-5e or stay with RJ-12.

Thanks in advance.

 

Leonard Lee Davis

 

 

Best Regards,

 

Mark Gurries

Electrical Engineer

DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

 

 



Re: Cat-5e

Leonard Davis
 

Thank you Mark, I have NCE Power Cab and SB5. So I take it from what you have said the CAT 5 UTP's really only allow you to wire up the layout easier. So there is no other advantage to the using the CAT 5  other than ease of installation.


L. D.



---In wiringfordcc@..., <gurriesm@...> wrote:

To answer your specific questions, the Cat Cables  and the RJ12 cables are NOT alike at all.  Both the wiring and the plugs are not compatible with each other. 

What DCC system are you using?  The DCC system will determine the type of cables you need to expand the cab/throttle bus of the DCC system.

CAT or any ethernet (CAT5, CAT5e & CAT6) cable uses a ROUND 8 conductor cable with a larger 8 conductor telco plug.  They are wired Pin1 to Pin1.  The only DCC system that uses this type of cable is MRC.  MRC also allows use of RJ45 cables too.  See notes below.

RJ11 is a flat 4 conductor cable that use 4 conductors of a 6 conductor telco plug.  The cable can be wired both in pin1 to pin 1form  or flipped as in Pin 1 to Pin6.   The only DCC system that uses this cable is EasyDCC.

RJ12 is a flat 6 conductor conductor cable that use a 6 conductor telco plug.  A TRUE RJ12 cable is only wired Pin1 to Pin1.    This cable is used by NCE and Digitrax.



NOTES:

1) RJ11 is your common everyday telephone cable you can fine at any store that carries telephone supplies.  RJ11 is a telephone code name/term for this type of cabling.   Technically RJ11 is supposed to be wired Pin1 one to Pin1 per the RJ specifications.   But the specification allows for a flipped cable (Pin1 to Pin6) in they way it is designed.

2)  RJ12 is NOT a telephone company term.  It evolved as an data industry term to show that it is wired differently than a RJ11 cable.   Be aware than many time RJ12 cable are mis-identified as RJ11 cables.    That comes about only because you can use a RJ12 in a RJ11 setup and it will work but the reverse is not true.  At first glance at RJ12 may look to be the same as the RJ11 but upon closer inspection you will see the cable is wider/fatter because of the extra two wires. The RJ12 is sometimes called a RJ11 Data Cable since it is used in low speed data systems unlike Ethernet.  

3) RJ11-6.   You can get RJ12 Cables incorrectly wired in Pin1 to Pin6 format if your not careful.  They may be called RJ11-6 cables.  Technically such cables will never work with NCE and also run the risk of damaging NCE throttles but in practice it does not happen.  These cables will work with Digitrax but can cause other side effect problems such a flipped booster phasing or in some cases will not allow some digitrax devices to work correctly such as the BDL-16 and BDL-168.  A RJ11-6 cable will work in a RJ11 telephone setup just like the RJ12 will work.

4) RJ45 cable is not a CAT cable but uses the same 8 conductor telco connector.  RJ45 cables use a very wide 8 conductor flat cable that looks like a oversize telephone cable.  RJ45 is a technical term used by the telephone company.  This form of a cable will also work on MRC setups.  The term RJ45 cable is often incorrectly associated with CAT cables for the similar reasons R12 and RJ11 cables are mixed up.

5) NCE is now offering a new line of cab bus products that use the CAT cables for the layout side of the cab bus wiring.   NCE is attempting to allow on to use the cheaper and more common standard CAT cables to make the cab bus wiring easier.   RJ12 cables are harder to find and one needs to worry about the proper Pin1 to Pin1 wiring of a RJ12 cable when purchasing them.   The older RJ12 versions are still supported.

6) RJ means Registered Jack which is a telephone industry term.  It describes a level of wired telephone service as in how many telephone lines (hence number of wires) the connection it will support.   It does not actually state the connectors to be used.   The common connectors we associated with RJ11, Rj12 and RJ45 cables are actually part of larger modular connector system that included the flat cable.  This connection system allowed fast, easy and inexpensive cable construction.  These "modern" connection system came long after the RJ definitions were set.



On Sep 30, 2013, at 9:00 PM, <lleeblues@...> <lleeblues@...> wrote:



For some reason I can not find any file on the difference between RJ-12 cable and CAT-5e cable for cab buss. I know this subject5 has been covered before.

 I would appreciate any info available. I don't know if I need CAT-5e or stay with RJ-12.
Thanks in advance.

Leonard Lee Davis



Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: Cat-5e

Mark Gurries
 

To answer your specific questions, the Cat Cables  and the RJ12 cables are NOT alike at all.  Both the wiring and the plugs are not compatible with each other. 

What DCC system are you using?  The DCC system will determine the type of cables you need to expand the cab/throttle bus of the DCC system.

CAT or any ethernet (CAT5, CAT5e & CAT6) cable uses a ROUND 8 conductor cable with a larger 8 conductor telco plug.  They are wired Pin1 to Pin1.  The only DCC system that uses this type of cable is MRC.  MRC also allows use of RJ45 cables too.  See notes below.

RJ11 is a flat 4 conductor cable that use 4 conductors of a 6 conductor telco plug.  The cable can be wired both in pin1 to pin 1form  or flipped as in Pin 1 to Pin6.   The only DCC system that uses this cable is EasyDCC.

RJ12 is a flat 6 conductor conductor cable that use a 6 conductor telco plug.  A TRUE RJ12 cable is only wired Pin1 to Pin1.    This cable is used by NCE and Digitrax.



NOTES:

1) RJ11 is your common everyday telephone cable you can fine at any store that carries telephone supplies.  RJ11 is a telephone code name/term for this type of cabling.   Technically RJ11 is supposed to be wired Pin1 one to Pin1 per the RJ specifications.   But the specification allows for a flipped cable (Pin1 to Pin6) in they way it is designed.

2)  RJ12 is NOT a telephone company term.  It evolved as an data industry term to show that it is wired differently than a RJ11 cable.   Be aware than many time RJ12 cable are mis-identified as RJ11 cables.    That comes about only because you can use a RJ12 in a RJ11 setup and it will work but the reverse is not true.  At first glance at RJ12 may look to be the same as the RJ11 but upon closer inspection you will see the cable is wider/fatter because of the extra two wires. The RJ12 is sometimes called a RJ11 Data Cable since it is used in low speed data systems unlike Ethernet.  

3) RJ11-6.   You can get RJ12 Cables incorrectly wired in Pin1 to Pin6 format if your not careful.  They may be called RJ11-6 cables.  Technically such cables will never work with NCE and also run the risk of damaging NCE throttles but in practice it does not happen.  These cables will work with Digitrax but can cause other side effect problems such a flipped booster phasing or in some cases will not allow some digitrax devices to work correctly such as the BDL-16 and BDL-168.  A RJ11-6 cable will work in a RJ11 telephone setup just like the RJ12 will work.

4) RJ45 cable is not a CAT cable but uses the same 8 conductor telco connector.  RJ45 cables use a very wide 8 conductor flat cable that looks like a oversize telephone cable.  RJ45 is a technical term used by the telephone company.  This form of a cable will also work on MRC setups.  The term RJ45 cable is often incorrectly associated with CAT cables for the similar reasons R12 and RJ11 cables are mixed up.

5) NCE is now offering a new line of cab bus products that use the CAT cables for the layout side of the cab bus wiring.   NCE is attempting to allow on to use the cheaper and more common standard CAT cables to make the cab bus wiring easier.   RJ12 cables are harder to find and one needs to worry about the proper Pin1 to Pin1 wiring of a RJ12 cable when purchasing them.   The older RJ12 versions are still supported.

6) RJ means Registered Jack which is a telephone industry term.  It describes a level of wired telephone service as in how many telephone lines (hence number of wires) the connection it will support.   It does not actually state the connectors to be used.   The common connectors we associated with RJ11, Rj12 and RJ45 cables are actually part of larger modular connector system that included the flat cable.  This connection system allowed fast, easy and inexpensive cable construction.  These "modern" connection system came long after the RJ definitions were set.



On Sep 30, 2013, at 9:00 PM, <lleeblues@...> <lleeblues@...> wrote:



For some reason I can not find any file on the difference between RJ-12 cable and CAT-5e cable for cab buss. I know this subject5 has been covered before.

 I would appreciate any info available. I don't know if I need CAT-5e or stay with RJ-12.
Thanks in advance.

Leonard Lee Davis



Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Cat-5e

Leonard Davis
 

For some reason I can not find any file on the difference between RJ-12 cable and CAT-5e cable for cab buss. I know this subject5 has been covered before.

 I would appreciate any info available. I don't know if I need CAT-5e or stay with RJ-12.
Thanks in advance.

Leonard Lee Davis

(No subject)

Peter Kirchhoff
 











From: Peter Kirchhoff 9/30/2013 9:17:40 PM
From: Peter Kirchhoff 9/30/2013 9:17:40 PM

(No subject)

Peter Kirchhoff
 











From: Peter Kirchhoff 9/29/2013 11:11:31 PM
From: Peter Kirchhoff 9/29/2013 11:11:31 PM

Re: Plder Lifelike to DCC

Puckdropper
 

Check the connections.  Make sure track voltage is making its way to the decoder.  You can insert a pin (such as those from a resistor) in the holes of the 9-pin JST connector to check for voltage.


If you've got another decoder, try plugging that in.  It might be a good idea to remove the Mars light connections first.



---In wiringfordcc@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

Well, now I am frustrated, and would like suggestions...

I started the conversion and all went just fine. Got all the wires hooked up, even using the two filament bulb as a MARS light. I taped the decoder down, and left the cover off. Off to the test track. Ir ran fine, after I cleaned the wheels. The headlight would not light and the MARS light was way too dim. Simple solution - change the dropping resistor. Took the engine to the bench and removed the headlight resistor. Left the two wire ends bare. Went back to the test track and used clip leads to switch in and out the resistors of various values until I found a reasonable one. It did get hot to the touch. Back to the bench. Installed the desired resistor using the next higher wattage in the headlight circuit, and removed the resistor for the MARS light. Back to the test track. Now nothing works. Cannot read CV, no motion, no lights. No difference if a resistor is clipped in or left out of the MARS light circuit.

So, where did I foul up? This is the second engine with these symptoms. The only two common items are both are trying to use TCS decoders, TH141, and I am the guy worked on both of them.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of azMikeG@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 11:52 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: RE: RE: [WiringForDCC] Plder Lifelike to DCC

 




O.K., Now I am puzzeled. There are two headlights, an upper and a lower headlight. The lower is no problem - two leads. However, the upper headlight has three leads coming out of it. They went all the way back to the circuit board, which I have removed. I removed most of the components on the top of the circuit board before I discovered the three lead headlight. Does anyone have a schematic of the wiring? I can make guesses as to what it was for, but I would like to have some idea for sure before I proceed.

 

I measured between the three leads in all the combinations and came out that between any two leads, with any polarity there is about 35 ohms, cold.

 

Thanks,

Mike G.

 



---In WiringForDCC@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

I was comparing my engine to the example on the website. Mine has a newer(?) circuit board in it, or at least it has a few more components on it. The loco itself has two headlights, so there a set of 3 white wires (one per headlight, and a common).

There are still two screws that hold the circuit board in place, but one of them also holds what I believe to be a voltage regulator, in place as well.

(picture available if requested)

I just want verification, that if I use a different decoder from TCS that the same wiring for the decoder plug is valid.



---In WiringForDCC@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

Mike,

 

Does this example from the TCS web site help you?

 

http://tinyurl.com/njxzpt6

 

Ross

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto: WiringForDCC@... ] On Behalf Of azMikeG@...
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 7:47 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Plder Lifelike to DCC

 



I have an older Lifelike / Proto 2000  E-8a in MKT red livery and is DC. It is full of a large weight and has a circuit board in it. The front headlight hooks up to the circuit board. Not much room for a decoder. Is there a prodedure documented somewhere? Any suggestions?

 

Thanks,

Mike G.




Re: Plder Lifelike to DCC

emrldsky
 

And that would get the loco running again? How? 

On 26 Sep 2013, at 14:20, azMikeG@... wrote:

 

Well, now I am frustrated, and would like suggestions...

I started the conversion and all went just fine. Got all the wires hooked up, even using the two filament bulb as a MARS light. I taped the decoder down, and left the cover off. Off to the test track. Ir ran fine, after I cleaned the wheels. The headlight would not light and the MARS light was way too dim. Simple solution - change the dropping resistor. Took the engine to the bench and removed the headlight resistor. Left the two wire ends bare. Went back to the test track and used clip leads to switch in and out the resistors of various values until I found a reasonable one. It did get hot to the touch. Back to the bench. Installed the desired resistor using the next higher wattage in the headlight circuit, and removed the resistor for the MARS light. Back to the test track. Now nothing works. Cannot read CV, no motion, no lights. No difference if a resistor is clipped in or left out of the MARS light circuit.

So, where did I foul up? This is the second engine with these symptoms. The only two common items are both are trying to use TCS decoders, TH141, and I am the guy worked on both of them.



---In WiringForDCC@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

Mike you have encountered a P2K E8 with a hardware circuit to make the top light flash as a Mars light. The top bulb actually has two low voltage filaments. The IC you called a voltage regulator feeds a dual ‘555 timer chip that alternates the side-side bulb filaments.

For conversion to DCC you should consider ripping out the entire circuit board, replacing the headlights with LEDs and hard wiring the decoder in place (or use a harness with a plug). Many DCC decoders can simulate the flashing of a Mars light using a single filament bulb or LED. You could also try to manipulate a DCC ditch lights feature to flash and alternate the top dual incandescent bulb like a Mars light. (caution, it is a low voltage lamp, so use a current limiting resistor.)

 

Never count on an old unit being wired according to the NMRA standards. Verify every wire, every time.

As long as you are making the DCC conversion, make it a Tsunami and add sound. There should be plenty of room for a Hi-Bass speaker.

DonV  

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of azMikeG@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 11:52 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: RE: RE: [WiringForDCC] Plder Lifelike to DCC

 




O.K., Now I am puzzeled. There are two headlights, an upper and a lower headlight. The lower is no problem - two leads. However, the upper headlight has three leads coming out of it. They went all the way back to the circuit board, which I have removed. I removed most of the components on the top of the circuit board before I discovered the three lead headlight. Does anyone have a schematic of the wiring? I can make guesses as to what it was for, but I would like to have some idea for sure before I proceed.

 

I measured between the three leads in all the combinations and came out that between any two leads, with any polarity there is about 35 ohms, cold.

 

Thanks,

Mike G.

 



---In WiringForDCC@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

I was comparing my engine to the example on the website. Mine has a newer(?) circuit board in it, or at least it has a few more components on it. The loco itself has two headlights, so there a set of 3 white wires (one per headlight, and a common).

There are still two screws that hold the circuit board in place, but one of them also holds what I believe to be a voltage regulator, in place as well.

(picture available if requested)

I just want verification, that if I use a different decoder from TCS that the same wiring for the decoder plug is valid.



---In WiringForDCC@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

Mike,

 

Does this example from the TCS web site help you?

 

http://tinyurl.com/njxzpt6

 

Ross

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto: WiringForDCC@... ] On Behalf Of azMikeG@...
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 7:47 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Plder Lifelike to DCC

 



I have an older Lifelike / Proto 2000  E-8a in MKT red livery and is DC. It is full of a large weight and has a circuit board in it. The front headlight hooks up to the circuit board. Not much room for a decoder. Is there a prodedure documented somewhere? Any suggestions?

 

Thanks,

Mike G.




Re: Plder Lifelike to DCC

Andrew Wood
 

Rip the "Mars" light out, fit a standard led... Then program the led to Mars effect

Andrew Wood
Maffra, Victoria


On 26 Sep 2013, at 14:20, azMikeG@... wrote:

 

Well, now I am frustrated, and would like suggestions...

I started the conversion and all went just fine. Got all the wires hooked up, even using the two filament bulb as a MARS light. I taped the decoder down, and left the cover off. Off to the test track. Ir ran fine, after I cleaned the wheels. The headlight would not light and the MARS light was way too dim. Simple solution - change the dropping resistor. Took the engine to the bench and removed the headlight resistor. Left the two wire ends bare. Went back to the test track and used clip leads to switch in and out the resistors of various values until I found a reasonable one. It did get hot to the touch. Back to the bench. Installed the desired resistor using the next higher wattage in the headlight circuit, and removed the resistor for the MARS light. Back to the test track. Now nothing works. Cannot read CV, no motion, no lights. No difference if a resistor is clipped in or left out of the MARS light circuit.

So, where did I foul up? This is the second engine with these symptoms. The only two common items are both are trying to use TCS decoders, TH141, and I am the guy worked on both of them.



---In WiringForDCC@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

Mike you have encountered a P2K E8 with a hardware circuit to make the top light flash as a Mars light. The top bulb actually has two low voltage filaments. The IC you called a voltage regulator feeds a dual ‘555 timer chip that alternates the side-side bulb filaments.

For conversion to DCC you should consider ripping out the entire circuit board, replacing the headlights with LEDs and hard wiring the decoder in place (or use a harness with a plug). Many DCC decoders can simulate the flashing of a Mars light using a single filament bulb or LED. You could also try to manipulate a DCC ditch lights feature to flash and alternate the top dual incandescent bulb like a Mars light. (caution, it is a low voltage lamp, so use a current limiting resistor.)

 

Never count on an old unit being wired according to the NMRA standards. Verify every wire, every time.

As long as you are making the DCC conversion, make it a Tsunami and add sound. There should be plenty of room for a Hi-Bass speaker.

DonV  

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of azMikeG@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 11:52 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: RE: RE: [WiringForDCC] Plder Lifelike to DCC

 




O.K., Now I am puzzeled. There are two headlights, an upper and a lower headlight. The lower is no problem - two leads. However, the upper headlight has three leads coming out of it. They went all the way back to the circuit board, which I have removed. I removed most of the components on the top of the circuit board before I discovered the three lead headlight. Does anyone have a schematic of the wiring? I can make guesses as to what it was for, but I would like to have some idea for sure before I proceed.

 

I measured between the three leads in all the combinations and came out that between any two leads, with any polarity there is about 35 ohms, cold.

 

Thanks,

Mike G.

 



---In WiringForDCC@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

I was comparing my engine to the example on the website. Mine has a newer(?) circuit board in it, or at least it has a few more components on it. The loco itself has two headlights, so there a set of 3 white wires (one per headlight, and a common).

There are still two screws that hold the circuit board in place, but one of them also holds what I believe to be a voltage regulator, in place as well.

(picture available if requested)

I just want verification, that if I use a different decoder from TCS that the same wiring for the decoder plug is valid.



---In WiringForDCC@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

Mike,

 

Does this example from the TCS web site help you?

 

http://tinyurl.com/njxzpt6

 

Ross

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto: WiringForDCC@... ] On Behalf Of azMikeG@...
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 7:47 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Plder Lifelike to DCC

 



I have an older Lifelike / Proto 2000  E-8a in MKT red livery and is DC. It is full of a large weight and has a circuit board in it. The front headlight hooks up to the circuit board. Not much room for a decoder. Is there a prodedure documented somewhere? Any suggestions?

 

Thanks,

Mike G.




Re: Plder Lifelike to DCC

emrldsky
 

Well, now I am frustrated, and would like suggestions...

I started the conversion and all went just fine. Got all the wires hooked up, even using the two filament bulb as a MARS light. I taped the decoder down, and left the cover off. Off to the test track. Ir ran fine, after I cleaned the wheels. The headlight would not light and the MARS light was way too dim. Simple solution - change the dropping resistor. Took the engine to the bench and removed the headlight resistor. Left the two wire ends bare. Went back to the test track and used clip leads to switch in and out the resistors of various values until I found a reasonable one. It did get hot to the touch. Back to the bench. Installed the desired resistor using the next higher wattage in the headlight circuit, and removed the resistor for the MARS light. Back to the test track. Now nothing works. Cannot read CV, no motion, no lights. No difference if a resistor is clipped in or left out of the MARS light circuit.

So, where did I foul up? This is the second engine with these symptoms. The only two common items are both are trying to use TCS decoders, TH141, and I am the guy worked on both of them.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of azMikeG@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 11:52 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: RE: RE: [WiringForDCC] Plder Lifelike to DCC

 




O.K., Now I am puzzeled. There are two headlights, an upper and a lower headlight. The lower is no problem - two leads. However, the upper headlight has three leads coming out of it. They went all the way back to the circuit board, which I have removed. I removed most of the components on the top of the circuit board before I discovered the three lead headlight. Does anyone have a schematic of the wiring? I can make guesses as to what it was for, but I would like to have some idea for sure before I proceed.

 

I measured between the three leads in all the combinations and came out that between any two leads, with any polarity there is about 35 ohms, cold.

 

Thanks,

Mike G.

 



---In WiringForDCC@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

I was comparing my engine to the example on the website. Mine has a newer(?) circuit board in it, or at least it has a few more components on it. The loco itself has two headlights, so there a set of 3 white wires (one per headlight, and a common).

There are still two screws that hold the circuit board in place, but one of them also holds what I believe to be a voltage regulator, in place as well.

(picture available if requested)

I just want verification, that if I use a different decoder from TCS that the same wiring for the decoder plug is valid.



---In WiringForDCC@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

Mike,

 

Does this example from the TCS web site help you?

 

http://tinyurl.com/njxzpt6

 

Ross

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto: WiringForDCC@... ] On Behalf Of azMikeG@...
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 7:47 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Plder Lifelike to DCC

 



I have an older Lifelike / Proto 2000  E-8a in MKT red livery and is DC. It is full of a large weight and has a circuit board in it. The front headlight hooks up to the circuit board. Not much room for a decoder. Is there a prodedure documented somewhere? Any suggestions?

 

Thanks,

Mike G.




Re: Older Lifelike to DCC

Paul O
 

OK Mike, it was just a wild shot.

For the headlight with the dual filament, what I did was use a four-function decoder (TCS TH141) and wired each filament to a separate output. I don’t remember just how I set up the functions, but it was to simulate a MARS light.

You’ll have to experiment to find out which wire is the common on that bulb, and wire it to the blue lead.

 

Good luck,

 

Paul O

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of azMikeG@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 6:22 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: [WiringForDCC] Older Lifelike to DCC

 

 

 

Thanks Paul,

You were probably looking at my earlier post about a PA that I was converting. This is a different engine - an E8. The boards do not look at all alike.. The one in the E8 does not have terminals like the one you posted. The wires are soldered into the board at various places.

Peace,

Mike G.

Re: Plder Lifelike to DCC

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Mike you have encountered a P2K E8 with a hardware circuit to make the top light flash as a Mars light. The top bulb actually has two low voltage filaments. The IC you called a voltage regulator feeds a dual ‘555 timer chip that alternates the side-side bulb filaments.

For conversion to DCC you should consider ripping out the entire circuit board, replacing the headlights with LEDs and hard wiring the decoder in place (or use a harness with a plug). Many DCC decoders can simulate the flashing of a Mars light using a single filament bulb or LED. You could also try to manipulate a DCC ditch lights feature to flash and alternate the top dual incandescent bulb like a Mars light. (caution, it is a low voltage lamp, so use a current limiting resistor.)

 

Never count on an old unit being wired according to the NMRA standards. Verify every wire, every time.

As long as you are making the DCC conversion, make it a Tsunami and add sound. There should be plenty of room for a Hi-Bass speaker.

DonV  

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of azMikeG@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 11:52 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: RE: RE: [WiringForDCC] Plder Lifelike to DCC

 




O.K., Now I am puzzeled. There are two headlights, an upper and a lower headlight. The lower is no problem - two leads. However, the upper headlight has three leads coming out of it. They went all the way back to the circuit board, which I have removed. I removed most of the components on the top of the circuit board before I discovered the three lead headlight. Does anyone have a schematic of the wiring? I can make guesses as to what it was for, but I would like to have some idea for sure before I proceed.

 

I measured between the three leads in all the combinations and came out that between any two leads, with any polarity there is about 35 ohms, cold.

 

Thanks,

Mike G.

 



---In WiringForDCC@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

I was comparing my engine to the example on the website. Mine has a newer(?) circuit board in it, or at least it has a few more components on it. The loco itself has two headlights, so there a set of 3 white wires (one per headlight, and a common).

There are still two screws that hold the circuit board in place, but one of them also holds what I believe to be a voltage regulator, in place as well.

(picture available if requested)

I just want verification, that if I use a different decoder from TCS that the same wiring for the decoder plug is valid.



---In WiringForDCC@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

Mike,

 

Does this example from the TCS web site help you?

 

http://tinyurl.com/njxzpt6

 

Ross

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto: WiringForDCC@... ] On Behalf Of azMikeG@...
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 7:47 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Plder Lifelike to DCC

 



I have an older Lifelike / Proto 2000  E-8a in MKT red livery and is DC. It is full of a large weight and has a circuit board in it. The front headlight hooks up to the circuit board. Not much room for a decoder. Is there a prodedure documented somewhere? Any suggestions?

 

Thanks,

Mike G.




Re: Older Lifelike to DCC

emrldsky
 

 

Thanks Paul,

You were probably looking at my earlier post about a PA that I was converting. This is a different engine - an E8. The boards do not look at all alike.. The one in the E8 does not have terminals like the one you posted. The wires are soldered into the board at various places.

Peace,

Mike G.

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of azMikeG@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 12:52 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: RE: RE: [WiringForDCC] Plder Lifelike to DCC

 

 

O.K., Now I am puzzeled. There are two headlights, an upper and a lower headlight. The lower is no problem - two leads. However, the upper headlight has three leads coming out of it. They went all the way back to the circuit board, which I have removed. I removed most of the components on the top of the circuit board before I discovered the three lead headlight. Does anyone have a schematic of the wiring? I can make guesses as to what it was for, but I would like to have some idea for sure before I proceed.

 

I measured between the three leads in all the combinations and came out that between any two leads, with any polarity there is about 35 ohms, cold.

 

Thanks,

Mike G.

 



---In WiringForDCC@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

I was comparing my engine to the example on the website. Mine has a newer(?) circuit board in it, or at least it has a few more components on it. The loco itself has two headlights, so there a set of 3 white wires (one per headlight, and a common).

There are still two screws that hold the circuit board in place, but one of them also holds what I believe to be a voltage regulator, in place as well.

(picture available if requested)

I just want verification, that if I use a different decoder from TCS that the same wiring for the decoder plug is valid.



---In WiringForDCC@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

Mike,

 

Does this example from the TCS web site help you?

 

http://tinyurl.com/njxzpt6

 

Ross

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto: WiringForDCC@... ] On Behalf Of azMikeG@...
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 7:47 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Older Lifelike to DCC

 



I have an older Lifelike / Proto 2000  E-8a in MKT red livery and is DC. It is full of a large weight and has a circuit board in it. The front headlight hooks up to the circuit board. Not much room for a decoder. Is there a prodedure documented somewhere? Any suggestions?

 

Thanks,

Mike G.

Re: Plder Lifelike to DCC

Scott H. Haycock
 

Mike, 
I suspect that the upper, 3 lead bulb(white, blue, and red wires) is a Mars light. This bulb would brighten and dim and would be controlled by the DC circuit board. While you could plug a decoder into the circuit board, I would remove it and replace it with a decoder designed to fit the same space. Several manufacturers make decoders designed to do just this. You may have to replace the bulbs, depending on the decoder, But with the 3 wire bulb, you would only need the white and blue wires, as the Mars lighting effect would be controlled by the decoder.

The wiring color code is a NMRA standard, so hooking up the wires from the trucks, motor, and lights should be straight forward. The upper, Mars light would be wired to a accessory function, like and programmed with CVs to simulate the effect.

As has been mentioned, knowing what decoder you want to use will allow for a more precise answer.    

 

 

O.K., Now I am puzzeled. There are two headlights, an upper and a lower headlight. The lower is no problem - two leads. However, the upper headlight has three leads coming out of it. They went all the way back to the circuit board, which I have removed. I removed most of the components on the top of the circuit board before I discovered the three lead headlight. Does anyone have a schematic of the wiring? I can make guesses as to what it was for, but I would like to have some idea for sure before I proceed.

 

I measured between the three leads in all the combinations and came out that between any two leads, with any polarity there is about 35 ohms, cold.

 

Thanks,

Mike G.

 



---In WiringForDCC@..., wrote:

I was comparing my engine to the example on the website. Mine has a newer(?) circuit board in it, or at least it has a few more components on it. The loco itself has two headlights, so there a set of 3 white wires (one per headlight, and a common).

There are still two screws that hold the circuit board in place, but one of them also holds what I believe to be a voltage regulator, in place as well.

(picture available if requested)

I just want verification, that if I use a different decoder from TCS that the same wiring for the decoder plug is valid.



---In WiringForDCC@..., wrote:

Mike,

 

Does this example from the TCS web site help you?

 

http://tinyurl.com/njxzpt6

 

Ross

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto: WiringForDCC@... ] On Behalf Of azMikeG@...
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 7:47 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Plder Lifelike to DCC

 




I have an older Lifelike / Proto 2000  E-8a in MKT red livery and is DC. It is full of a large weight and has a circuit board in it. The front headlight hooks up to the circuit board. Not much room for a decoder. Is there a prodedure documented somewhere? Any suggestions?

 

Thanks,

Mike G.


Re: Older Lifelike to DCC

Paul O
 

Mike, I uploaded a drawing of the light boards from my Lifelike/Walthers PA/PB units. These were the newer units so I don’t know if they are close to what you have or not,  but maybe it’ll help. The dual filament bulb is to simulate a MARS light.

In the FILES section; ALCO PA & PB Wiring Diag.bmp

 

Paul O

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of azMikeG@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 12:52 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: RE: RE: [WiringForDCC] Plder Lifelike to DCC

 

 

O.K., Now I am puzzeled. There are two headlights, an upper and a lower headlight. The lower is no problem - two leads. However, the upper headlight has three leads coming out of it. They went all the way back to the circuit board, which I have removed. I removed most of the components on the top of the circuit board before I discovered the three lead headlight. Does anyone have a schematic of the wiring? I can make guesses as to what it was for, but I would like to have some idea for sure before I proceed.

 

I measured between the three leads in all the combinations and came out that between any two leads, with any polarity there is about 35 ohms, cold.

 

Thanks,

Mike G.

 



---In WiringForDCC@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

I was comparing my engine to the example on the website. Mine has a newer(?) circuit board in it, or at least it has a few more components on it. The loco itself has two headlights, so there a set of 3 white wires (one per headlight, and a common).

There are still two screws that hold the circuit board in place, but one of them also holds what I believe to be a voltage regulator, in place as well.

(picture available if requested)

I just want verification, that if I use a different decoder from TCS that the same wiring for the decoder plug is valid.



---In WiringForDCC@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

Mike,

 

Does this example from the TCS web site help you?

 

http://tinyurl.com/njxzpt6

 

Ross

 

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto: WiringForDCC@... ] On Behalf Of azMikeG@...
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 7:47 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Older Lifelike to DCC

 



I have an older Lifelike / Proto 2000  E-8a in MKT red livery and is DC. It is full of a large weight and has a circuit board in it. The front headlight hooks up to the circuit board. Not much room for a decoder. Is there a prodedure documented somewhere? Any suggestions?

 

Thanks,

Mike G.

Re: Plder Lifelike to DCC

emrldsky
 

O.K., Now I am puzzeled. There are two headlights, an upper and a lower headlight. The lower is no problem - two leads. However, the upper headlight has three leads coming out of it. They went all the way back to the circuit board, which I have removed. I removed most of the components on the top of the circuit board before I discovered the three lead headlight. Does anyone have a schematic of the wiring? I can make guesses as to what it was for, but I would like to have some idea for sure before I proceed.

 

I measured between the three leads in all the combinations and came out that between any two leads, with any polarity there is about 35 ohms, cold.

 

Thanks,

Mike G.

 



---In WiringForDCC@..., <wiringfordcc@...> wrote:

I was comparing my engine to the example on the website. Mine has a newer(?) circuit board in it, or at least it has a few more components on it. The loco itself has two headlights, so there a set of 3 white wires (one per headlight, and a common).

There are still two screws that hold the circuit board in place, but one of them also holds what I believe to be a voltage regulator, in place as well.

(picture available if requested)

I just want verification, that if I use a different decoder from TCS that the same wiring for the decoder plug is valid.