Date   

Re: Newbie

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Stranded wire is easier to deal with for the DCC bus as it is more flexible. Solid 22 ga wire is easier to hold in place while soldering track drops to rails. Suitcase connectors are meant for stranded wire. Other opinions may vary.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of keninnf
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 10:32 PM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Newbie

Doing an HO layout and DCC, new to me, have been studying and the next step is to get ready to do busses and drops. Solid wire or stranded? Will be using suitcase connectors.

Ken



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links


Re: Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

mgstewart <mgstewart@...>
 

Reinforcing Don's guidance, the instructions for installing a Hillman 332-04 Insulated Rail Clamp to provide a gap between power districts is to ..."apply a glob of liquid silicone to one end of the abutting rails in each rail pair before installing the clamp...." When the clamp is installed, the silicone sets up to (i) prevent the rails from touching due to expansion and (ii) prevent a short due to moisture collecting in the gap.

Malcolm Stewart


Re: Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

emrldsky
 

Hi Don,

Regarding the recommendations. Those work just fine for the usual flex track
installations. For those using sectional track like Kato, E-Z track and the
like with roadbed attached the "fixes" are different. For example, on the
Kato track, I can put in all the spikes I want to. There are places in each
section to do that. However, those places secure the roadbed itself. The
rails can still slide back and forth on the roadbed without having to apply
a lot of force. Therefore, I end up using some CA type glue to try to secure
the rail to the roadbed when rail movement becomes a problem. If you clean
the rail and the roadbed thoroughly before the glue, it usually works fine
using the thicker versions of the CA. However, if the track has been in use
for a month or so, the CA will often not stick due to various dirt and
contamination that gets on the sides of the rail.

Before gluing the insulating separator into place, it is wise to make sure
everything is exactly where you want it. This is because when you add the
glue for the separator, you lose the option of easily changing things around
since the two sections of track are now secured together. It is almost
impossible to glue in the separator on a stand-alone insulator type rail
joiner. Breaking the joint often results in breaking either or both of the
sectional pieces. Thus the big advantage of using sectional track instead of
flex track is lost.

Decisions, decisions, decisions..

Thanks again.

Mike G.





Bingo! Thanks for the reply Mike. Always nice to know that my advice still
works. I knew it had to be something simple. Always glue a plastic separator
in all insulating gaps and trim it to railhead size after the glue dries.
Otherwise any slight rail or roadbed expansion/contraction movement may
close it up. And as you found out... an intermittent connection can be
frustrating to find. The other trick is to not rely on the rail joiners to
hold track sections in place. Use extra spikes or screws to hold the track
into alignment, especially at gaps to prevent kinking.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behalf Of Mike G
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 10:55 PM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

Hi Don,

Thanks for your reply.

I went back and checked each statement you made so that I could provide an
answer to each one.

Then I found the problem. The problem is that I use Kato track, and thus,
their insulated joiners. Well, the insulated joiners are the same shell as
the normal joiners, except the shell is black, and the electrical contact
piece is not there. That is the problem. There is no isolation piece of
plastic, so it is possible to use the insulated joiners to join two pieces
of track and have the rail ends touch. So the lack of the electrical contact
does nothing except prevent good, solid electrical connection. That was what
was causing the confusion. The rail ends touching was an intermittent
happening. Therefore the symptoms were coming and going. So I have added
plastic separators into the insulated joiners, and now all works as
expected. I will be looking for a different insulated joiner so I do not
have to put in the fix every time I use them. I do not really want to use
the Atlas version of the insulated joiners because they are too unstable
mechanically, and the center insulator is too thick.

Everyone using Kato insulated joiners might want to take note of this
problem.

Thanks,

Mike G.

Mike, there is still something peculiar about the S-W corner (of the sketch)
that fouls auto-reversing of the A-R#1 tracks. It is a simple isolated track
section with only one internal turnout and double isolation gaps at 3
entrance/exit locations. If you have gaps near the S-W turnout, Verify that
the stock rail connections (outside rails) of the turnout are indeed the
same polarity as adjoining track at all 3 segments. Either one of your rail
feeds is mistakenly attached to the wrong polarity, or a fixed polarity DCC
source, or the S-W turnout is trying to power route, or one of the gaps is
not really open. You should be able to disconnect what you think is the
power feed for A-R#1 and verify with an ohmmeter that no rail of that entire
section is connected to either DCC main bus wire. Don't forget to verify the
frog if it is powered. If the ohmmeter indicates an open circuit, then (with
your feed wires still disconnected) and DCC power on, you should also be
able to connect either rail to either DCC bus lead at all 3 track ends with
the turnout thrown in either direction without causing a short circuit.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behalf Of Mike G
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 6:54 PM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

Answers are imbedded plus comments after.

Mike,
What happens when a loco rolls from the south main line into reversing
section A-R #1? Note that that the polarity of the south main line is the
same as that of the south turnout you are calling "A". - The loco stops, the
AR unit shuts down.

Are you sure a loco can traverse all the way around loop #3 and pass through
the North-most turnout in both directions?

It does if AR-1 is not connected. If AR-1 is connected the loco stops
crossing the gap on either the main or diverging route and the AR unit shuts
down. This happens going either direction.

Can a loco from "B" successfully take the North-East route around A-R #3 to
A-R loop #2?

It does if AR-1 is not connected. If AR-1 is connected the loco stops
crossing the gap on the main route and the AR unit shuts down. This happens
going either direction.

If you disconnect the output of A-R unit #3 from loop #3 tracks and power
only tracks of A-R #1 from it, does the problem still occur at A-R #1? (this
should be the same as having a separate AR unit for the wye tracks of A-R#1,
except that loop 3 is dead) - Yes, same problem
DonV

Note: The fixed polarity section on the east side, the north west corner,
and the reference polarity for the AR-3/1 unit is B.

Thanks,

Mike G.

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behalf Of emrldsky
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 11:31 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

I do not know what better title to use.
If you want to refer to a diagram, see the file "One Solution.pdf", located
in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/files/ReverseLoops/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/files/ReverseLoops/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/files/ReverseLoops/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/files/ReverseLoops/>
The Southwest turnout and its lead track is of fixed polarity, call it "A".
Then comes AR-1. AR-1 is driven from the same AR unit that controls AR-3.
The track in line is between AR-1 and AR-3 and has fixed polarity "B". The
reference fixed polarity for the AR unit is "B".
When a loco approaches AR-1 from the Southwest turnout, the AR unit shuts
down. The turnout has all power routing removed. The layout passes the
quarter test. When I test the AR-3 polarity changing by shorting the track,
it works fine. When I test the entrance to AR-1 from the Southwest turnout,
it shuts down.
Could this be caused by the AR unit somehow being confused by the fixed
polarity A adjacent to the AR-1, track wise? I ask this because when the
loco enters or exits the AR-3, there is only the one fixed polarity, B, to
deal with. It is also the reference polarity for the AR unit.
The AR unit is a PSX-AR.

------------------------------------



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links


Re: Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Bingo! Thanks for the reply Mike. Always nice to know that my advice still works. I knew it had to be something simple. Always glue a plastic separator in all insulating gaps and trim it to railhead size after the glue dries. Otherwise any slight rail or roadbed expansion/contraction movement may close it up. And as you found out... an intermittent connection can be frustrating to find. The other trick is to not rely on the rail joiners to hold track sections in place. Use extra spikes or screws to hold the track into alignment, especially at gaps to prevent kinking.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike G
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 10:55 PM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

Hi Don,

Thanks for your reply.

I went back and checked each statement you made so that I could provide an
answer to each one.

Then I found the problem. The problem is that I use Kato track, and thus,
their insulated joiners. Well, the insulated joiners are the same shell as
the normal joiners, except the shell is black, and the electrical contact
piece is not there. That is the problem. There is no isolation piece of
plastic, so it is possible to use the insulated joiners to join two pieces
of track and have the rail ends touch. So the lack of the electrical contact
does nothing except prevent good, solid electrical connection. That was what
was causing the confusion. The rail ends touching was an intermittent
happening. Therefore the symptoms were coming and going. So I have added
plastic separators into the insulated joiners, and now all works as
expected. I will be looking for a different insulated joiner so I do not
have to put in the fix every time I use them. I do not really want to use
the Atlas version of the insulated joiners because they are too unstable
mechanically, and the center insulator is too thick.



Everyone using Kato insulated joiners might want to take note of this
problem.



Thanks,

Mike G.

Mike, there is still something peculiar about the S-W corner (of the sketch)
that fouls auto-reversing of the A-R#1 tracks. It is a simple isolated track
section with only one internal turnout and double isolation gaps at 3
entrance/exit locations. If you have gaps near the S-W turnout, Verify that
the stock rail connections (outside rails) of the turnout are indeed the
same polarity as adjoining track at all 3 segments. Either one of your rail
feeds is mistakenly attached to the wrong polarity, or a fixed polarity DCC
source, or the S-W turnout is trying to power route, or one of the gaps is
not really open. You should be able to disconnect what you think is the
power feed for A-R#1 and verify with an ohmmeter that no rail of that entire
section is connected to either DCC main bus wire. Don't forget to verify the
frog if it is powered. If the ohmmeter indicates an open circuit, then (with
your feed wires still disconnected) and DCC power on, you should also be
able to connect either rail to either DCC bus lead at all 3 track ends with
the turnout thrown in either direction without causing a short circuit.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behalf Of Mike G
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 6:54 PM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

Answers are imbedded plus comments after.

Mike,
What happens when a loco rolls from the south main line into reversing
section A-R #1? Note that that the polarity of the south main line is the
same as that of the south turnout you are calling "A". - The loco stops, the
AR unit shuts down.

Are you sure a loco can traverse all the way around loop #3 and pass through
the North-most turnout in both directions?

It does if AR-1 is not connected. If AR-1 is connected the loco stops
crossing the gap on either the main or diverging route and the AR unit shuts
down. This happens going either direction.

Can a loco from "B" successfully take the North-East route around A-R #3 to
A-R loop #2?

It does if AR-1 is not connected. If AR-1 is connected the loco stops
crossing the gap on the main route and the AR unit shuts down. This happens
going either direction.

If you disconnect the output of A-R unit #3 from loop #3 tracks and power
only tracks of A-R #1 from it, does the problem still occur at A-R #1? (this
should be the same as having a separate AR unit for the wye tracks of A-R#1,
except that loop 3 is dead) - Yes, same problem
DonV

Note: The fixed polarity section on the east side, the north west corner,
and the reference polarity for the AR-3/1 unit is B.

Thanks,

Mike G.

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behalf Of emrldsky
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 11:31 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

I do not know what better title to use.
If you want to refer to a diagram, see the file "One Solution.pdf", located
in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/files/ReverseLoops/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/files/ReverseLoops/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/files/ReverseLoops/>
The Southwest turnout and its lead track is of fixed polarity, call it "A".
Then comes AR-1. AR-1 is driven from the same AR unit that controls AR-3.
The track in line is between AR-1 and AR-3 and has fixed polarity "B". The
reference fixed polarity for the AR unit is "B".
When a loco approaches AR-1 from the Southwest turnout, the AR unit shuts
down. The turnout has all power routing removed. The layout passes the
quarter test. When I test the AR-3 polarity changing by shorting the track,
it works fine. When I test the entrance to AR-1 from the Southwest turnout,
it shuts down.
Could this be caused by the AR unit somehow being confused by the fixed
polarity A adjacent to the AR-1, track wise? I ask this because when the
loco enters or exits the AR-3, there is only the one fixed polarity, B, to
deal with. It is also the reference polarity for the AR unit.
The AR unit is a PSX-AR.

------------------------------------

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links


Re: Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

emrldsky
 

Hi Don,

Thanks for your reply.

I went back and checked each statement you made so that I could provide an
answer to each one.

Then I found the problem. The problem is that I use Kato track, and thus,
their insulated joiners. Well, the insulated joiners are the same shell as
the normal joiners, except the shell is black, and the electrical contact
piece is not there. That is the problem. There is no isolation piece of
plastic, so it is possible to use the insulated joiners to join two pieces
of track and have the rail ends touch. So the lack of the electrical contact
does nothing except prevent good, solid electrical connection. That was what
was causing the confusion. The rail ends touching was an intermittent
happening. Therefore the symptoms were coming and going. So I have added
plastic separators into the insulated joiners, and now all works as
expected. I will be looking for a different insulated joiner so I do not
have to put in the fix every time I use them. I do not really want to use
the Atlas version of the insulated joiners because they are too unstable
mechanically, and the center insulator is too thick.



Everyone using Kato insulated joiners might want to take note of this
problem.



Thanks,

Mike G.

Mike, there is still something peculiar about the S-W corner (of the sketch)
that fouls auto-reversing of the A-R#1 tracks. It is a simple isolated track
section with only one internal turnout and double isolation gaps at 3
entrance/exit locations. If you have gaps near the S-W turnout, Verify that
the stock rail connections (outside rails) of the turnout are indeed the
same polarity as adjoining track at all 3 segments. Either one of your rail
feeds is mistakenly attached to the wrong polarity, or a fixed polarity DCC
source, or the S-W turnout is trying to power route, or one of the gaps is
not really open. You should be able to disconnect what you think is the
power feed for A-R#1 and verify with an ohmmeter that no rail of that entire
section is connected to either DCC main bus wire. Don't forget to verify the
frog if it is powered. If the ohmmeter indicates an open circuit, then (with
your feed wires still disconnected) and DCC power on, you should also be
able to connect either rail to either DCC bus lead at all 3 track ends with
the turnout thrown in either direction without causing a short circuit.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behalf Of Mike G
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 6:54 PM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

Answers are imbedded plus comments after.

Mike,
What happens when a loco rolls from the south main line into reversing
section A-R #1? Note that that the polarity of the south main line is the
same as that of the south turnout you are calling "A". - The loco stops, the
AR unit shuts down.

Are you sure a loco can traverse all the way around loop #3 and pass through
the North-most turnout in both directions?

It does if AR-1 is not connected. If AR-1 is connected the loco stops
crossing the gap on either the main or diverging route and the AR unit shuts
down. This happens going either direction.

Can a loco from "B" successfully take the North-East route around A-R #3 to
A-R loop #2?

It does if AR-1 is not connected. If AR-1 is connected the loco stops
crossing the gap on the main route and the AR unit shuts down. This happens
going either direction.

If you disconnect the output of A-R unit #3 from loop #3 tracks and power
only tracks of A-R #1 from it, does the problem still occur at A-R #1? (this
should be the same as having a separate AR unit for the wye tracks of A-R#1,
except that loop 3 is dead) - Yes, same problem
DonV

Note: The fixed polarity section on the east side, the north west corner,
and the reference polarity for the AR-3/1 unit is B.

Thanks,

Mike G.

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behalf Of emrldsky
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 11:31 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

I do not know what better title to use.
If you want to refer to a diagram, see the file "One Solution.pdf", located
in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/files/ReverseLoops/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/files/ReverseLoops/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/files/ReverseLoops/>
The Southwest turnout and its lead track is of fixed polarity, call it "A".
Then comes AR-1. AR-1 is driven from the same AR unit that controls AR-3.
The track in line is between AR-1 and AR-3 and has fixed polarity "B". The
reference fixed polarity for the AR unit is "B".
When a loco approaches AR-1 from the Southwest turnout, the AR unit shuts
down. The turnout has all power routing removed. The layout passes the
quarter test. When I test the AR-3 polarity changing by shorting the track,
it works fine. When I test the entrance to AR-1 from the Southwest turnout,
it shuts down.
Could this be caused by the AR unit somehow being confused by the fixed
polarity A adjacent to the AR-1, track wise? I ask this because when the
loco enters or exits the AR-3, there is only the one fixed polarity, B, to
deal with. It is also the reference polarity for the AR unit.
The AR unit is a PSX-AR.

------------------------------------



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links


Re: Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Mike, there is still something peculiar about the S-W corner (of the sketch) that fouls auto-reversing of the A-R#1 tracks. It is a simple isolated track section with only one internal turnout and double isolation gaps at 3 entrance/exit locations. If you have gaps near the S-W turnout, Verify that the stock rail connections (outside rails) of the turnout are indeed the same polarity as adjoining track at all 3 segments. Either one of your rail feeds is mistakenly attached to the wrong polarity, or a fixed polarity DCC source, or the S-W turnout is trying to power route, or one of the gaps is not really open. You should be able to disconnect what you think is the power feed for A-R#1 and verify with an ohmmeter that no rail of that entire section is connected to either DCC main bus wire. Don't forget to verify the frog if it is powered. If the ohmmeter indicates an open circuit, then (with your feed wires still disconnected) and DCC power on, you should also be able to connect either rail to either DCC bus lead at all 3 track ends with the turnout thrown in either direction without causing a short circuit.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike G
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 6:54 PM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

Answers are imbedded plus comments after.

Mike,
What happens when a loco rolls from the south main line into reversing
section A-R #1? Note that that the polarity of the south main line is the
same as that of the south turnout you are calling "A". - The loco stops, the
AR unit shuts down.


Are you sure a loco can traverse all the way around loop #3 and pass through
the North-most turnout in both directions?

It does if AR-1 is not connected. If AR-1 is connected the loco stops
crossing the gap on either the main or diverging route and the AR unit shuts
down. This happens going either direction.

Can a loco from "B" successfully take the North-East route around A-R #3 to
A-R loop #2?

It does if AR-1 is not connected. If AR-1 is connected the loco stops
crossing the gap on the main route and the AR unit shuts down. This happens
going either direction.


If you disconnect the output of A-R unit #3 from loop #3 tracks and power
only tracks of A-R #1 from it, does the problem still occur at A-R #1? (this
should be the same as having a separate AR unit for the wye tracks of A-R#1,
except that loop 3 is dead) - Yes, same problem
DonV



Note: The fixed polarity section on the east side, the north west corner,
and the reference polarity for the AR-3/1 unit is B.

Thanks,

Mike G.


-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behalf Of emrldsky
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 11:31 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

I do not know what better title to use.
If you want to refer to a diagram, see the file "One Solution.pdf", located
in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/files/ReverseLoops/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/files/ReverseLoops/>
The Southwest turnout and its lead track is of fixed polarity, call it "A".
Then comes AR-1. AR-1 is driven from the same AR unit that controls AR-3.
The track in line is between AR-1 and AR-3 and has fixed polarity "B". The
reference fixed polarity for the AR unit is "B".
When a loco approaches AR-1 from the Southwest turnout, the AR unit shuts
down. The turnout has all power routing removed. The layout passes the
quarter test. When I test the AR-3 polarity changing by shorting the track,
it works fine. When I test the entrance to AR-1 from the Southwest turnout,
it shuts down.
Could this be caused by the AR unit somehow being confused by the fixed
polarity A adjacent to the AR-1, track wise? I ask this because when the
loco enters or exits the AR-3, there is only the one fixed polarity, B, to
deal with. It is also the reference polarity for the AR unit.
The AR unit is a PSX-AR.

------------------------------------





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links


Re: DCC Turnouts

georgiatrains <gabiker@...>
 

Thanks to everyone's response with clearing up the use of my Atlas
turnouts. I am so relieved.

Best regards



Larry





--- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Euper" <peuper@...> wrote:

To ?? We generally like to put our name at the end of our messages :>)

Yes, if the turnouts worked fine in a DC layout they will generally
work as
good on a DCC layout, observing the same wiring rules. Also the
turnouts
should be in good shape or at least serviceable, to correct any
visible
problems.
I use insulated frogs for all my turnouts then power the frog thru a
switch
to ensure correct polarity depending on turnout position.
The WiringforDCC web site covers all this in much detail.

Regards

Phil Euper in SC

----- Original Message -----
From: "georgiatrains" gabiker@...
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 10:59 AM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] DCC Turnouts


I am currently building a new DCC layout (first time DCC). I have
aquantity
of app 15year old Atlas turnouts from a prevous layout. Can these be
readily used in my new DCC system or should I purchase all new DCC
turnouts?

Thanks



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links



Newbie

keninnf <keninnf@...>
 

Doing an HO layout and DCC, new to me, have been studying and the next step is to get ready to do busses and drops. Solid wire or stranded? Will be using suitcase connectors.

Ken


Re: DCC Turnouts

wirefordcc <wire4dcc@...>
 

Many early Atlas turnouts had a cast metal frog that you can't solder to. If you have one of these, see my website at: http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_atlas_roco.htm#a1 You can still power these frogs by using a small brass screw.

Also many early Atlas turnouts were made of brass. I echo Paul's concern. These require MUCH, MUCH more cleaning than those made of nickel silver. If you can't afford all new turnouts, then do as Paul suggests and make them replacable as budget allows.

Allan
Wiring For DCC

--- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, "georgiatrains" <gabiker@...> wrote:

I am currently building a new DCC layout (first time DCC). I have aquantity of app 15year old Atlas turnouts from a prevous layout. Can these be readily used in my new DCC system or should I purchase all new DCC turnouts?

Thanks


Re: DCC Turnouts

Paul O <pomilian@...>
 

First answer: YES, you can use them with DCC.
They have plastic frogs and there are no special wiring concerns.

Second answer: Are they made with steel or brass rails?
Either of these have a much higher maintenance factor then the newer
nickel-silver ones.
If you decide to use the older ones (cost factor to replace) I'd suggest not
soldering them in place so you can easily replace them as time and funds
allow.

Paul O

-----Original Message-----
From: georgiatrains


I am currently building a new DCC layout (first time DCC). I have
aquantity of app 15year old Atlas turnouts from a prevous layout. Can these
be readily used in my new DCC system or should I purchase all new DCC
turnouts?

Thanks


Re: DCC Turnouts

Phil Euper <peuper@...>
 

To ?? We generally like to put our name at the end of our messages :>)

Yes, if the turnouts worked fine in a DC layout they will generally work as good on a DCC layout, observing the same wiring rules. Also the turnouts should be in good shape or at least serviceable, to correct any visible problems.
I use insulated frogs for all my turnouts then power the frog thru a switch to ensure correct polarity depending on turnout position.
The WiringforDCC web site covers all this in much detail.

Regards

Phil Euper in SC

----- Original Message -----
From: "georgiatrains" <gabiker@mindspring.com>
To: <WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 10:59 AM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] DCC Turnouts


I am currently building a new DCC layout (first time DCC). I have aquantity of app 15year old Atlas turnouts from a prevous layout. Can these be readily used in my new DCC system or should I purchase all new DCC turnouts?

Thanks



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links



DCC Turnouts

georgiatrains <gabiker@...>
 

I am currently building a new DCC layout (first time DCC). I have aquantity of app 15year old Atlas turnouts from a prevous layout. Can these be readily used in my new DCC system or should I purchase all new DCC turnouts?

Thanks


Re: DCC COMPATIBLE MOTORS

Max Maginness
 

You need a high frequency decoder and you could try connecting a 470 ohms
(more or less OK) resistor across the motor terminals.



Max



From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ed
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 8:20 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WiringForDCC] DCC COMPATIBLE MOTORS





I have a couple of motors installed in some locomotives (maxon & faulhaler)
that I ran when I was on DC. I am gradually converting all to DCC. I
recently tried to install a decoder in the Faulhaler loco but I cannot get
it to work with the decoder. I have yet to try the Maxon locomotives. Are
these motors somehow incompatible with DCC or must I wire them differently?

Ed Robinson



_____

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3278 - Release Date: 11/25/10


DCC COMPATIBLE MOTORS

Ed
 

I have a couple of motors installed in some locomotives (maxon & faulhaler) that I ran when I was on DC. I am gradually converting all to DCC. I recently tried to install a decoder in the Faulhaler loco but I cannot get it to work with the decoder. I have yet to try the Maxon locomotives. Are these motors somehow incompatible with DCC or must I wire them differently?

Ed Robinson


Re: Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

emrldsky
 

Answers are imbedded plus comments after.

Mike,
What happens when a loco rolls from the south main line into reversing
section A-R #1? Note that that the polarity of the south main line is the
same as that of the south turnout you are calling "A". - The loco stops, the
AR unit shuts down.


Are you sure a loco can traverse all the way around loop #3 and pass through
the North-most turnout in both directions?

It does if AR-1 is not connected. If AR-1 is connected the loco stops
crossing the gap on either the main or diverging route and the AR unit shuts
down. This happens going either direction.

Can a loco from "B" successfully take the North-East route around A-R #3 to
A-R loop #2?

It does if AR-1 is not connected. If AR-1 is connected the loco stops
crossing the gap on the main route and the AR unit shuts down. This happens
going either direction.


If you disconnect the output of A-R unit #3 from loop #3 tracks and power
only tracks of A-R #1 from it, does the problem still occur at A-R #1? (this
should be the same as having a separate AR unit for the wye tracks of A-R#1,
except that loop 3 is dead) - Yes, same problem
DonV



Note: The fixed polarity section on the east side, the north west corner,
and the reference polarity for the AR-3/1 unit is B.

Thanks,

Mike G.

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behalf Of emrldsky
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 11:31 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

I do not know what better title to use.
If you want to refer to a diagram, see the file "One Solution.pdf", located
in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/files/ReverseLoops/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/files/ReverseLoops/>
The Southwest turnout and its lead track is of fixed polarity, call it "A".
Then comes AR-1. AR-1 is driven from the same AR unit that controls AR-3.
The track in line is between AR-1 and AR-3 and has fixed polarity "B". The
reference fixed polarity for the AR unit is "B".
When a loco approaches AR-1 from the Southwest turnout, the AR unit shuts
down. The turnout has all power routing removed. The layout passes the
quarter test. When I test the AR-3 polarity changing by shorting the track,
it works fine. When I test the entrance to AR-1 from the Southwest turnout,
it shuts down.
Could this be caused by the AR unit somehow being confused by the fixed
polarity A adjacent to the AR-1, track wise? I ask this because when the
loco enters or exits the AR-3, there is only the one fixed polarity, B, to
deal with. It is also the reference polarity for the AR unit.
The AR unit is a PSX-AR.

------------------------------------


Re: Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Mike,
What happens when a loco rolls from the south main line into reversing section A-R #1? Note that that the polarity of the south main line is the same as that of the south turnout you are calling "A".
Are you sure a loco can traverse all the way around loop #3 and pass through the North-most turnout in both directions?
Can a loco from "B" successfully take the North-East route around A-R #3 to A-R loop #2?
If you disconnect the output of A-R unit #3 from loop #3 tracks and power only tracks of A-R #1 from it, does the problem still occur at A-R #1? (this should be the same as having a separate AR unit for the wye tracks of A-R#1, except that loop 3 is dead)
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of emrldsky
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 11:31 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

I do not know what better title to use.
If you want to refer to a diagram, see the file "One Solution.pdf", located in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/files/ReverseLoops/.
The Southwest turnout and its lead track is of fixed polarity, call it "A". Then comes AR-1. AR-1 is driven from the same AR unit that controls AR-3. The track in line is between AR-1 and AR-3 and has fixed polarity "B". The reference fixed polarity for the AR unit is "B".
When a loco approaches AR-1 from the Southwest turnout, the AR unit shuts down. The turnout has all power routing removed. The layout passes the quarter test. When I test the AR-3 polarity changing by shorting the track, it works fine. When I test the entrance to AR-1 from the Southwest turnout, it shuts down.
Could this be caused by the AR unit somehow being confused by the fixed polarity A adjecent to the AR-1, track wise? I ask this because when the loco enters or exits the AR-3, there is only the one fixed polarity, B, to deal with. It is also the reference polarity for the AR unit.
The AR unit is a PSX-AR.



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links


Two Fixed Polarities Confusing AR Units

emrldsky
 

I do not know what better title to use.
If you want to refer to a diagram, see the file "One Solution.pdf", located in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/files/ReverseLoops/.
The Southwest turnout and its lead track is of fixed polarity, call it "A". Then comes AR-1. AR-1 is driven from the same AR unit that controls AR-3. The track in line is between AR-1 and AR-3 and has fixed polarity "B". The reference fixed polarity for the AR unit is "B".
When a loco approaches AR-1 from the Southwest turnout, the AR unit shuts down. The turnout has all power routing removed. The layout passes the quarter test. When I test the AR-3 polarity changing by shorting the track, it works fine. When I test the entrance to AR-1 from the Southwest turnout, it shuts down.
Could this be caused by the AR unit somehow being confused by the fixed polarity A adjecent to the AR-1, track wise? I ask this because when the loco enters or exits the AR-3, there is only the one fixed polarity, B, to deal with. It is also the reference polarity for the AR unit.
The AR unit is a PSX-AR.


Re: Can I run a Genesis A-B-A trio from a single decoder?

Milt Spanton
 

Thanks to all for your insights. Price isn't the driver, performance is, so the common power pick-ups are a must. The load - even though these are Genesis top-end motors - seems to be the limiting factor. I appreciate your collective help.

Milt Spanton


Re: Wiring product inquiry

Stan
 

--- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, "papasmurf" <papa.smurf5@...> wrote:

Have any of you folks used the Posi family of connectors in your layout wiring? http://posi-lock.com/
Plan to use them wherever they'll work for me. TTFN...papasmurf in NH
I used them for a number of years on O2 and Temp sensors and they worked great, but not for a connector that you want to re-use many times, after a couple of go rounds you usually have to strip a new end
I have tried, as well as a number of clubs Anderson Power Poles one internet source is: http://www.powerwerx.com/ I really like the modular approach to their design and the contact design is really beefy, (you can actually get different size contacts for each circuit and build the plug to any configuration you ever could want


Re: Reversing Loop Problems

emrldsky
 

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all your suggestions. I had just about figured out the AR unit
had gone bad, based on the other suggestions. I pretty much already meet
those criteria.

So, I went out and measured a few voltages and did the shorting test and
measured again. Then I tried the same loco that had been causing the
failures. Well, Murphy is alive and well at my place. Everything started
working as expected and did so for about an hour. Sure makes trouble
shooting hard that way!



You need to ensure that the current path to each end of the reversing
section is solid. Try adding feeders from the output of the AR unit to the
end of the loop nearest the diverging route.

Doug Stuard

--- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
, "emrldsky" <azMikeG@...> wrote:

This one has me stumped.
I have a reversing loop controlled by an AR unit. Entering and departing
the loop using the straight path everything works fine.
However, when trying to enter or leave using the diverging path the loco
stops and the AR unit shuts down. Clear the short by moving the loco back
into or out of the reversing loop and the AR unit recovers. All turnouts
associated with the reversing loop have both rails of the diverging output
path and the straight output gaped. The failure happens regardless of which
way the turnout is positioned.
By checking voltage differences across the gap of the same rail, I can
determine the polarity swap did not happen when the loco began to cross the
gap.

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