Date   
Re: DCC Reversers

donevol <dvollrath@...>
 

So according to your comment ... "there are all sorts of back and forthing going on between the main lines on the rest of the layout" the two mainlines must already be of the required polarity to allow that to occur.
I have posted a possible soultion to your questions about where to place gaps in your sketch. Look in the files section under your reversing folder for the file named One Solution.pdf. Suggested location of required double rail gaps are selected to achieve the longest possible reversing sections. The A-R sections are marked A-R #1, #2, & #3. Note the two isolated track areas wired for fixed polarity. These are necessary to properly trigger auto-reversers as trains roll through from either direction or path. Using the position of throwbars to determine the correct polarity for the obvious reversing balloon loops is more complicated because there are two turnouts. You can slide the actual location of the gaps to better suit actual track lengths so that thr reversing sections are always longer than trains. [I assume the symetrical sketch is not to scale.] For fully automatic operation I suggest using three auto-reversers.

DonV

Re: DCC Reversers

Doug Stuard <dstuard@...>
 

As far as the balloon loops go, you need to double gap each end of each balloon near the turnouts, establishing two reversing sections. Feed each reversing section via an AR unit. You can't use turnout position to control the phase of the balloon tracks, as there are two turnouts involved, and it would depend on which end was being traversed. An AR can handle whatever the situation is.

The rest of the layout can't simply be written off as having been taken care of. As currently drawn, the N main and S. main would have oposite phases. If there is a crossover anywhere between them, you will have a problem, as the entire lower half of the layout then functions as a reverse loop when viewed from the "invisible" part.

I would take one side of the "wye" (doesn't matter which side) and double gap enough trackage to establish another reversing section and feed it through a third AR unit handleany possible conflict.

Doug Stuard

--- In WiringForDCC@..., Mike G <azMikeG@...> wrote:

Hi Dan,

What you see on the diagram is what there is. At least as far as trying to
figure out where the gaps should be and where the reversing mechanism,
regardless of implementation, should be. The rest of the layout is quite
immaterial as far as the issues here goes. As a matter if interest there are
all sorts of back and forthing going on between the main lines on the rest
of the layout. That has all been sorted out. The rest of the layout can be
isolated by gaps if needed and that question is for another day. For now,
the only interest I have is what you see.



Mike G.



From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On
Behalf Of birchardvilleobservatory
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:11 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: DCC Reversers





Hi again..

The Wye... If the north main and south main are connected at their far end
by a "half loop" and there are no crossovers between them, then this isn't a
"reversing Wye" -- the train going up the north main comes back down on the
south main (or the reverse) with no reversal of track power phase needed.
That whole north main, south main and the half loop between them at their
far end is just like a normal passing siding (electrically), with one of the
tracks bent up and stretched out much longer than the first.

Now, if there is are crossover turnouts between the north main and the south
main tracks heading up out of the top of your diagram, it becomes a Wye, and
can be much more complex.

Which is it -- simple stretched and folded siding or complex Wye with at
least one crossover between north main and south main, allowing a train
heading from the north loop up the north main to crossover and continue up
the south main?

Dan

--- In WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
, Mike G <azMikeG@> wrote:

Hi Don,

Thanks for your input.

About the Wye - If trains only came in on the south main and left on the
north main, provided they were running opposing traffic, a reverser would
not be required would it?
Likewise for entering on the north main and exiting on the south main?
This
is because the phases are already set for the direction of the run, and
the
exiting turnout, assuming power routed frogs, would provide the phase
change. Am I correct? If not, what am I missing?



From: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
] On
Behalf Of Vollrath, Don
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:14 PM
To: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Re: DCC Reversers





There are two obvious reversing 'balloon' loops.
However if you want the dual track leading to the 'rest of the layout' set
up for the same North-South track polarity to allow unlimited and
uncomplicated crossovers, the tracks leading to that area form a reversing
wye. Then there is a third reversing track section. The best location of
track gaps and implementation of auto-reversers depends on the actual
length
of track sections, the proposed length of trains and how many trains will
be
moving at the same time on this part of the layout. For best flexibility
it
should be accomplished with 3 reversing sections.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behalf Of emrldsky
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 4:25 PM
To: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: DCC Reversers

I have uploaded a file that illustrates the following questions. Just how
many reverse loops are there, really, and where to place the gaps? That
is,
there are two obvious reverse loops, but are there hidden ones? Just how
to
deal with the situation of running multiple trains where some are going in
or out of the loops and others are just runing the outside big circuit?
The file is in the Reverse Loops folder, and is called
"P:&#92;hoTrains&#92;layoutSoftware&#92;xTrkCad&#92;homeModules.pdf"
A few notes about the diagram.
1. All track is connected, even though it may only show as a single line.
2. There are two main lines comming in from the top of the diagram. Those
tracks go out to a black box called "The rest of the Layout"
3. There is an imaginary line that goes from top to bottom of the diagram.
It starts between the two incomming tracks and goes down the page
intersescing the two hroizontal single lines in the middle of each.
4. All the track on the right side of the line is called the "North Loop",
and all the track on the left side of the line is called "South Loop".
5. The North Loop is fed by one DCC booster, the South Loop is fed by
another DCC booster.
6. There are gaps in both rails on each of the single line tracks where
the
line intersects with them.

------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2897 - Release Date: 05/25/10
23:25:00






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2898 - Release Date: 05/26/10
11:26:00



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: DCC Reversers

emrldsky
 

Hi Dan,

What you see on the diagram is what there is. At least as far as trying to
figure out where the gaps should be and where the reversing mechanism,
regardless of implementation, should be. The rest of the layout is quite
immaterial as far as the issues here goes. As a matter if interest there are
all sorts of back and forthing going on between the main lines on the rest
of the layout. That has all been sorted out. The rest of the layout can be
isolated by gaps if needed and that question is for another day. For now,
the only interest I have is what you see.



Mike G.



From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On
Behalf Of birchardvilleobservatory
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:11 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: DCC Reversers





Hi again..

The Wye... If the north main and south main are connected at their far end
by a "half loop" and there are no crossovers between them, then this isn't a
"reversing Wye" -- the train going up the north main comes back down on the
south main (or the reverse) with no reversal of track power phase needed.
That whole north main, south main and the half loop between them at their
far end is just like a normal passing siding (electrically), with one of the
tracks bent up and stretched out much longer than the first.

Now, if there is are crossover turnouts between the north main and the south
main tracks heading up out of the top of your diagram, it becomes a Wye, and
can be much more complex.

Which is it -- simple stretched and folded siding or complex Wye with at
least one crossover between north main and south main, allowing a train
heading from the north loop up the north main to crossover and continue up
the south main?

Dan

--- In WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
, Mike G <azMikeG@...> wrote:

Hi Don,

Thanks for your input.

About the Wye - If trains only came in on the south main and left on the
north main, provided they were running opposing traffic, a reverser would
not be required would it?
Likewise for entering on the north main and exiting on the south main?
This
is because the phases are already set for the direction of the run, and
the
exiting turnout, assuming power routed frogs, would provide the phase
change. Am I correct? If not, what am I missing?



From: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
] On
Behalf Of Vollrath, Don
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:14 PM
To: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Re: DCC Reversers





There are two obvious reversing 'balloon' loops.
However if you want the dual track leading to the 'rest of the layout' set
up for the same North-South track polarity to allow unlimited and
uncomplicated crossovers, the tracks leading to that area form a reversing
wye. Then there is a third reversing track section. The best location of
track gaps and implementation of auto-reversers depends on the actual
length
of track sections, the proposed length of trains and how many trains will
be
moving at the same time on this part of the layout. For best flexibility
it
should be accomplished with 3 reversing sections.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behalf Of emrldsky
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 4:25 PM
To: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: DCC Reversers

I have uploaded a file that illustrates the following questions. Just how
many reverse loops are there, really, and where to place the gaps? That
is,
there are two obvious reverse loops, but are there hidden ones? Just how
to
deal with the situation of running multiple trains where some are going in
or out of the loops and others are just runing the outside big circuit?
The file is in the Reverse Loops folder, and is called
"P:&#92;hoTrains&#92;layoutSoftware&#92;xTrkCad&#92;homeModules.pdf"
A few notes about the diagram.
1. All track is connected, even though it may only show as a single line.
2. There are two main lines comming in from the top of the diagram. Those
tracks go out to a black box called "The rest of the Layout"
3. There is an imaginary line that goes from top to bottom of the diagram.
It starts between the two incomming tracks and goes down the page
intersescing the two hroizontal single lines in the middle of each.
4. All the track on the right side of the line is called the "North Loop",
and all the track on the left side of the line is called "South Loop".
5. The North Loop is fed by one DCC booster, the South Loop is fed by
another DCC booster.
6. There are gaps in both rails on each of the single line tracks where
the
line intersects with them.

------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2897 - Release Date: 05/25/10
23:25:00






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2898 - Release Date: 05/26/10
11:26:00

Re: DCC Reversers

Dan Janda
 

Hi again..

The Wye... If the north main and south main are connected at their far end by a "half loop" and there are no crossovers between them, then this isn't a "reversing Wye" -- the train going up the north main comes back down on the south main (or the reverse) with no reversal of track power phase needed. That whole north main, south main and the half loop between them at their far end is just like a normal passing siding (electrically), with one of the tracks bent up and stretched out much longer than the first.

Now, if there is are crossover turnouts between the north main and the south main tracks heading up out of the top of your diagram, it becomes a Wye, and can be much more complex.

Which is it -- simple stretched and folded siding or complex Wye with at least one crossover between north main and south main, allowing a train heading from the north loop up the north main to crossover and continue up the south main?

Dan

--- In WiringForDCC@..., Mike G <azMikeG@...> wrote:

Hi Don,

Thanks for your input.

About the Wye - If trains only came in on the south main and left on the
north main, provided they were running opposing traffic, a reverser would
not be required would it?
Likewise for entering on the north main and exiting on the south main? This
is because the phases are already set for the direction of the run, and the
exiting turnout, assuming power routed frogs, would provide the phase
change. Am I correct? If not, what am I missing?



From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On
Behalf Of Vollrath, Don
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:14 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Re: DCC Reversers





There are two obvious reversing 'balloon' loops.
However if you want the dual track leading to the 'rest of the layout' set
up for the same North-South track polarity to allow unlimited and
uncomplicated crossovers, the tracks leading to that area form a reversing
wye. Then there is a third reversing track section. The best location of
track gaps and implementation of auto-reversers depends on the actual length
of track sections, the proposed length of trains and how many trains will be
moving at the same time on this part of the layout. For best flexibility it
should be accomplished with 3 reversing sections.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behalf Of emrldsky
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 4:25 PM
To: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: DCC Reversers

I have uploaded a file that illustrates the following questions. Just how
many reverse loops are there, really, and where to place the gaps? That is,
there are two obvious reverse loops, but are there hidden ones? Just how to
deal with the situation of running multiple trains where some are going in
or out of the loops and others are just runing the outside big circuit?
The file is in the Reverse Loops folder, and is called
"P:&#92;hoTrains&#92;layoutSoftware&#92;xTrkCad&#92;homeModules.pdf"
A few notes about the diagram.
1. All track is connected, even though it may only show as a single line.
2. There are two main lines comming in from the top of the diagram. Those
tracks go out to a black box called "The rest of the Layout"
3. There is an imaginary line that goes from top to bottom of the diagram.
It starts between the two incomming tracks and goes down the page
intersescing the two hroizontal single lines in the middle of each.
4. All the track on the right side of the line is called the "North Loop",
and all the track on the left side of the line is called "South Loop".
5. The North Loop is fed by one DCC booster, the South Loop is fed by
another DCC booster.
6. There are gaps in both rails on each of the single line tracks where the
line intersects with them.

------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2897 - Release Date: 05/25/10
23:25:00



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: DCC Reversers

Dan Janda
 

I reviewed your .pdf file. There is a single line shown near the top which seems to be in the place that would make that would allow a shortcut from the north loop to the south loop (or the reverse).

Ignoring that... you have two reverse loops. You say there are gaps in the single line tracks -- there needs to be gaps on the loop side of the loop throat turnouts in both rails of both tracks, as without them, you'll have short circuits. Rather than the electronic reverser units, this kind of "balloon track" reversing loop can readily be handled by a DPDT switch which is synchronized with the throat turnout, and which reverses the phase of the DCC signal in the balloon track depending on the turnout setting.

I assume the "rest of the layout" is essentially a single mainline track with industrial sidings, etc. My way to visualize this would be to imagine that you stretched the two balloon tracks out to the left and right and pulled the "rest of the layout" into line. If that works, then there are just these two reversing loops.

I use the Atlas undertable deluxe switch motors (snap switches that have two SPDT auxiliary contacts on them). I use one of the auxiliary contact sets to power my turnout frogs. I use the other to power a two-color LED mounted trackside and a equivalent LEDs on the control panel (actually included in the actuating push button switches). In the case of the reversing loop balloon track switching, I connected a 12 volt DPDT relay to the switch motor auxiliary contact that powers the red LED (the relay is pulled when the red LED is on)

I owe the idea to this Wiring For DCC web pages... thanks, guys.

Dan

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "emrldsky" <azMikeG@...> wrote:

I have uploaded a file that illustrates the following questions. Just how many reverse loops are there, really, and where to place the gaps? That is, there are two obvious reverse loops, but are there hidden ones? Just how to deal with the situation of running multiple trains where some are going in or out of the loops and others are just runing the outside big circuit?
The file is in the Reverse Loops folder, and is called "P:&#92;hoTrains&#92;layoutSoftware&#92;xTrkCad&#92;homeModules.pdf"
A few notes about the diagram.
1. All track is connected, even though it may only show as a single line.
2. There are two main lines comming in from the top of the diagram. Those tracks go out to a black box called "The rest of the Layout"
3. There is an imaginary line that goes from top to bottom of the diagram. It starts between the two incomming tracks and goes down the page intersescing the two hroizontal single lines in the middle of each.
4. All the track on the right side of the line is called the "North Loop", and all the track on the left side of the line is called "South Loop".
5. The North Loop is fed by one DCC booster, the South Loop is fed by another DCC booster.
6. There are gaps in both rails on each of the single line tracks where the line intersects with them.

Re: DCC Reversers

emrldsky
 

Hi Don,

Thanks for your input.

About the Wye - If trains only came in on the south main and left on the
north main, provided they were running opposing traffic, a reverser would
not be required would it?
Likewise for entering on the north main and exiting on the south main? This
is because the phases are already set for the direction of the run, and the
exiting turnout, assuming power routed frogs, would provide the phase
change. Am I correct? If not, what am I missing?



From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On
Behalf Of Vollrath, Don
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:14 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Re: DCC Reversers





There are two obvious reversing 'balloon' loops.
However if you want the dual track leading to the 'rest of the layout' set
up for the same North-South track polarity to allow unlimited and
uncomplicated crossovers, the tracks leading to that area form a reversing
wye. Then there is a third reversing track section. The best location of
track gaps and implementation of auto-reversers depends on the actual length
of track sections, the proposed length of trains and how many trains will be
moving at the same time on this part of the layout. For best flexibility it
should be accomplished with 3 reversing sections.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behalf Of emrldsky
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 4:25 PM
To: WiringForDCC@... <mailto:WiringForDCC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: DCC Reversers

I have uploaded a file that illustrates the following questions. Just how
many reverse loops are there, really, and where to place the gaps? That is,
there are two obvious reverse loops, but are there hidden ones? Just how to
deal with the situation of running multiple trains where some are going in
or out of the loops and others are just runing the outside big circuit?
The file is in the Reverse Loops folder, and is called
"P:&#92;hoTrains&#92;layoutSoftware&#92;xTrkCad&#92;homeModules.pdf"
A few notes about the diagram.
1. All track is connected, even though it may only show as a single line.
2. There are two main lines comming in from the top of the diagram. Those
tracks go out to a black box called "The rest of the Layout"
3. There is an imaginary line that goes from top to bottom of the diagram.
It starts between the two incomming tracks and goes down the page
intersescing the two hroizontal single lines in the middle of each.
4. All the track on the right side of the line is called the "North Loop",
and all the track on the left side of the line is called "South Loop".
5. The North Loop is fed by one DCC booster, the South Loop is fed by
another DCC booster.
6. There are gaps in both rails on each of the single line tracks where the
line intersects with them.

------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2897 - Release Date: 05/25/10
23:25:00

Re: DCC Reversers

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

There are two obvious reversing 'balloon' loops.
However if you want the dual track leading to the 'rest of the layout' set up for the same North-South track polarity to allow unlimited and uncomplicated crossovers, the tracks leading to that area form a reversing wye. Then there is a third reversing track section. The best location of track gaps and implementation of auto-reversers depends on the actual length of track sections, the proposed length of trains and how many trains will be moving at the same time on this part of the layout. For best flexibility it should be accomplished with 3 reversing sections.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of emrldsky
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 4:25 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: DCC Reversers

I have uploaded a file that illustrates the following questions. Just how many reverse loops are there, really, and where to place the gaps? That is, there are two obvious reverse loops, but are there hidden ones? Just how to deal with the situation of running multiple trains where some are going in or out of the loops and others are just runing the outside big circuit?
The file is in the Reverse Loops folder, and is called "P:&#92;hoTrains&#92;layoutSoftware&#92;xTrkCad&#92;homeModules.pdf"
A few notes about the diagram.
1. All track is connected, even though it may only show as a single line.
2. There are two main lines comming in from the top of the diagram. Those tracks go out to a black box called "The rest of the Layout"
3. There is an imaginary line that goes from top to bottom of the diagram. It starts between the two incomming tracks and goes down the page intersescing the two hroizontal single lines in the middle of each.
4. All the track on the right side of the line is called the "North Loop", and all the track on the left side of the line is called "South Loop".
5. The North Loop is fed by one DCC booster, the South Loop is fed by another DCC booster.
6. There are gaps in both rails on each of the single line tracks where the line intersects with them.



------------------------------------

http://www.WiringForDCC.comYahoo! Groups Links

Re: DCC Reversers

emrldsky
 

I have uploaded a file that illustrates the following questions. Just how many reverse loops are there, really, and where to place the gaps? That is, there are two obvious reverse loops, but are there hidden ones? Just how to deal with the situation of running multiple trains where some are going in or out of the loops and others are just runing the outside big circuit?
The file is in the Reverse Loops folder, and is called "P:&#92;hoTrains&#92;layoutSoftware&#92;xTrkCad&#92;homeModules.pdf"
A few notes about the diagram.
1. All track is connected, even though it may only show as a single line.
2. There are two main lines comming in from the top of the diagram. Those tracks go out to a black box called "The rest of the Layout"
3. There is an imaginary line that goes from top to bottom of the diagram. It starts between the two incomming tracks and goes down the page intersescing the two hroizontal single lines in the middle of each.
4. All the track on the right side of the line is called the "North Loop", and all the track on the left side of the line is called "South Loop".
5. The North Loop is fed by one DCC booster, the South Loop is fed by another DCC booster.
6. There are gaps in both rails on each of the single line tracks where the line intersects with them.

Re: Rail Gaps

Glenn
 

The only reason I can see for gapping the buss wires is to prevent looping
the signal and distorting it.

Gapping the rail is a different issue.

Let say you have a passing track (psst: the Brits call this a loop) at XYZ
junction. The XYZ branch track switch is giving you physical problems. You
grab the needle nose pliers, track gauge, screwdriver, sledge hammer and
begin working on it.

Let's assume the layout is in operation whether club meeting or just friends
over. You lay the screw driver across the rails, place the gauge in place,
and try arc welding the points together. By this time the room is filling
with smoke from several decoders going up in smoke so you use the sledge to
knock out some windows for ventilation.

Now if the layout had been gapped, you could have isolated your work area so
your work would not have affected the rest of the layout. Even if you did
not finish your work, you could run trains on the rest of the layout to vent
some frustration from not having solved the problem.

Gapping allows you to isolate sections of the layout for whatever reason.

Gapping rail is easy using epoxy. Make sure the rail is secure and in gauge
at the proposed site. Cut the gap; insert a non metallic shim between the
rail ends that has been coated with epoxy. Build up some epoxy on the inside
and outside of the gap covering both rail ends.

The shim is insurance the rail ends will not move together. It should not be
wider than the web of the rail and centered over it.

When the epoxy is cured, file the top and inside of the rail head so bare
metal shows. Do not file the rail web flush to the metal, the epoxy will act
like a rail joiner and hold the rails in alignment.

You do not need to insert your favorite current interrupter (switch, et al)
in the wiring during construction. When needed simply cut the feeder wires
and reconnect them with wire nuts or solder. Also the cut wires will allow
you to connect an alternate power source to the section for testing.

If the section proves chronic then you may want to consider the expense of
adding a disconnect devise.

Glenn

Point of clarification

Glenn
 

In the olden days we tried to get the out of box style of track plan to be
called an oval. One where the track(s) runs around the outside of the layout
running by the same point in the same direction. A roundy-roundy.

A loop therefore would be:
A return (reverse) loop at the end, and sometimes middle, of a single
track section is for the purpose of turning a train around. But in model
terms it was to send the train back on the same track.
A secondary reference is the ends of a dog-bone track plan, double
(parallel) track, to return the train on the opposite track. Rail polarity
is different with reference to the layout, but remains the same for
direction of travel.

We also tried to get track switches to be called turn-outs instead of
switches which would refer to electrical switches only. But the prototype
wouldn't listen.

Glenn

Re: Gotta post this!

Doug Stuard <dstuard@...>
 

Not so much. I was trying to grab post #4449, but the post somehow got delayed by 7 hours.

4468 is good nonetheless. :^D

Doug

--- In WiringForDCC@..., rg <richg_1998@...> wrote:

From: Doug Stuard <dstuard@...>
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Gotta post this!
To: WiringForDCC@...
Date: Monday, May 24, 2010, 4:59 PM
Post # for my favorite Loco!





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That is great. Thanks.

Rich

Re: sound decoder issues - Lifelike Proto 2000

Robert Heroux
 

Stu -

If hitting F6 twice does not do anything, most likely you will need to do a hard reset to the decoder. Your loco should have come with a magnetic wand. Follow the intructions in your manual that came with the loco using the wand and do the hard reset. Once done you should be ok.

Hope this helps.

Bob

On May 23, 2010, at 11:49 PM, acmee001 wrote:

Hi all

I have a Lifelike Proto SD9 sound unit (first runs)which has always operated properly. Recently, while running the loco came off the track but continued to operate at fast revs. Due to its (and my) location it took about 30 secs to isolate it. The DCC system did not see a short during this incident (Digitrax)

On re-running it, the sound revs, lights and all functions except the motor work. So the loco just sits. An internalexamination does not reveal any loose wires, mechanical malfunction or burnt boards etc.

Given some of the discussions I have noted, have I inadvertently overloaded the decoder? - and how can I check with an ohm meter (if that is possible)to validate my suspicions. In fact, are there any other checks that you would recommend that I undertake.

thanks for your time - regards Stu

Robert Heroux
ACCU-LITES, Inc.
118 S. Main St. STE 12
Wauconda, IL 60084

Your DCC Center

Phone: 847.224.7914
FAX: 847.487.2089

http://www.acculites.com

Vedr. sound decoder issues - Lifelike Proto 2000

Ivar Aas <ivaraas@...>
 

If this SD have the QSI decoder, I suspect it have come in shutdown mode 1. If you acidently double clicked F9 when having the problem, this could happends.
Try doubleclick F6 to get it out of tha mode. See the QSI manual.

Ivar Aas

All American System RR.
Lørenskog, Norway
Using EasyDCC.




________________________________
Fra: acmee001 <acmee001@...>
Til: WiringForDCC@...
Sendt: man, mai 24, 2010 6:49:58 AM
Emne: [WiringForDCC] sound decoder issues - Lifelike Proto 2000

Hi all


On re-running it, the sound revs, lights and all functions except the motor work. So the loco just sits. An internalexamination does not reveal any loose wires, mechanical malfunction or burnt boards etc.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Gotta post this!

rg <richg_1998@...>
 

From: Doug Stuard <dstuard@...>
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Gotta post this!
To: WiringForDCC@...
Date: Monday, May 24, 2010, 4:59 PM
Post # for my favorite Loco!





------------------------------------

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------------------------------------------------------

That is great. Thanks.

Rich

Re: Rail Gaps

georgebriscoe10
 

Hi Tim,



It does help and gives me a reason why I should gap the rails as well as the Buss. It can't do any harm and it may make the signal "cleaner". Your analogy of constructive and destructive interference at the beach is good.



Regards.............George.



To: WiringForDCC@...
From: timgibbs@...
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 18:56:58 +1000
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Rail Gaps





Hi George,

With DCC the supply voltage is an AC pulse that is superimposed as a control
signal. To work, the decoder needs to receive sharp edged pulses as a
control signal. The sharp edge of the pulse is both on and off, with the
width of the on pulse being important and the width off pulse important.

If you form a loop with pulse signals you will have the pulses running
around the loop. Now the connection to the booster is at position zero or
the start of the loop. Now a train at one quarter the way around the loop
will receive two sets of signals from the booster. The first signal will
have travelled one quarter the way around the loop, the second signal will
have travelled three quarters the way around the loop. OK both signals are
suppose to travel at the speed of light, but in reality there may be slight
delay in the signal having to travel the longer distance. So instead of the
decoder receiving one sharp set of pulses it will receive two pulses.
Signals to the decoder will be the sum of the two pulses, because the pulses
have travelled different distances the edges on the on and off pulse will be
blurred and there may be a slight change of the on and off pulse widths. Now
add contact problems between the wheel and track, electrical motor noise,
etc. and in some circumstances this could corrupt the control signal to the
decoder. This may affect the control to the train providing unreliable
operation.

Some people recommend termination networks at the end of the buses to stop
the pulses being reflected back down the bus at the end of the bus. Imaging
the waves at the beaching running up the beach than running down to meet the
new arriving wave. Sometimes they add, sometimes they muddle.

Hope this helps

Tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





_________________________________________________________________
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Re: sound decoder issues - Lifelike Proto 2000

bigashrob9c7
 

Hi Stu

Try pressing F6 twice the loco may be in neutral, Also remove the body and check the chip has not come loose gently push the chip down to make sure it is seated properly. I have had this trouble with Atlas locos and all the problem was the chip had come loose BUT a note of caution QSI chips are static sensitive so ground yourself before handling them

Best Regards
Ashley

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "acmee001" <acmee001@...> wrote:

Hi all

I have a Lifelike Proto SD9 sound unit (first runs)which has always operated properly. Recently, while running the loco came off the track but continued to operate at fast revs. Due to its (and my) location it took about 30 secs to isolate it. The DCC system did not see a short during this incident (Digitrax)

On re-running it, the sound revs, lights and all functions except the motor work. So the loco just sits. An internalexamination does not reveal any loose wires, mechanical malfunction or burnt boards etc.

Given some of the discussions I have noted, have I inadvertently overloaded the decoder? - and how can I check with an ohm meter (if that is possible)to validate my suspicions. In fact, are there any other checks that you would recommend that I undertake.

thanks for your time - regards Stu

Re: Programming Track Booster

rg <richg_1998@...>
 

I have programmed the Tsunami, Digitrax and LokSound with my NCE Power Cab using the program track with no issues.
At our club, we use the Power Pro 5 amp system with no issues. We consider the 5 amp system to be a booster versus the Power Cab.
One guy has some switchers with MRC sound decoders that run just fine.

Rich


Inside every older person is a younger person wondering,
what happened?

Re: Programming Track Booster

Christopher j Killgore <cochoochoo@...>
 

Excuse me, but the Soundtrax programming booster is a two way device. I use it it to read and program Tsunami and QSI decoders, but with a NCE system connected to the computer with a USb-serial adapter. I have found that DecoderPro will not always identify decoders as it depends on what codes the manufacturers install in the decoders. Also, you might do a search on Blueline decoders as there have been other messages about programming oddities.

Chris

acmee001 wrote:

Thanks Doug - appreciated

what you suggest seems logical so I might pull it out or install a DPDT and get around it that way. Thankyou once again. Stu

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Doug Stuard" <dstuard@...> wrote:

I'm not familiar with the booster you are using, but it may be that, while the booster provides the necessary oomph TO the programming track, it does not provide the ability for the command station to detect what is on the far side of the booster. Like any amplifier, it's a one-way device unless a separate reverse path is explicitly provided.

But I could be wrong...

Doug Stuard



--- In WiringForDCC@..., "acmee001" <acmee001@> wrote:

I have recently installed a a Soundtrax PTB-100 programming booster within my Digitrax setup because I thought it would assist with programming Blueline BLI. While the item functions as per the manual, I note that the JMRI program that I utilise to program locos, is coming up with the message that it is unable to identify the decoder.

This is happening with all decoders including the common - ones which normally would not present an issue to JMRI and the system.
Before I pull it out - has anyone experienced this and from a wiring perspective, have I created incompatibility issues with loadings and data handling? I use the Digitrax MS100 at about 16k baud as the interface and wondered whether there is a timing issue although this isn't mentioned in error codes.
I do have a loco buffer ready to install but not sure which way to proceed now.

thanks once again Stu




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Re: Programming Track Booster

Dale Gloer
 

I have a PTB connected to my programming track using a DCS100 and have had no problems.

There is no special function used to determine a decoder type - the values of CV 7 & 8 are read back from the decoder the same way that any other CV is read. (CV 7 & 8 are used by the JMRI software to determine the decoder type. You can also read them back manually and look up the values in the decoder manual or online with a search.) If JMRI is not able to determine the decoder type then you may have a JMRI setup problem. Of course if you cannot read back any CV value then there is a problem with your hardware setup with the PTB.

Have you watched the LEDs on the PTB when trying to read from the decoder? The flashing green led will go on steady and then the yellow will flash on decoder acknowledgment. If the red led is on you have a problem with the PTB.

Dale Gloer

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Doug Stuard" <dstuard@...> wrote:

You would think that there would be the provision for the command station/programmer to recognize the programming booster as a "decoder" so as to permit programming to proceed.

Perhaps someone with direct knowldge (always a good thing) can chime in.

Doug Stuard


--- In WiringForDCC@..., "acmee001" <acmee001@> wrote:

Thanks Doug - appreciated

what you suggest seems logical so I might pull it out or install a DPDT and get around it that way. Thankyou once again. Stu

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Doug Stuard" <dstuard@> wrote:

I'm not familiar with the booster you are using, but it may be that, while the booster provides the necessary oomph TO the programming track, it does not provide the ability for the command station to detect what is on the far side of the booster. Like any amplifier, it's a one-way device unless a separate reverse path is explicitly provided.

But I could be wrong...

Doug Stuard



--- In WiringForDCC@..., "acmee001" <acmee001@> wrote:

I have recently installed a a Soundtrax PTB-100 programming booster within my Digitrax setup because I thought it would assist with programming Blueline BLI. While the item functions as per the manual, I note that the JMRI program that I utilise to program locos, is coming up with the message that it is unable to identify the decoder.

This is happening with all decoders including the common - ones which normally would not present an issue to JMRI and the system.

Before I pull it out - has anyone experienced this and from a wiring perspective, have I created incompatibility issues with loadings and data handling? I use the Digitrax MS100 at about 16k baud as the interface and wondered whether there is a timing issue although this isn't mentioned in error codes.

I do have a loco buffer ready to install but not sure which way to proceed now.

thanks once again Stu

Re: Rail Gaps Point of clarification

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

If you refer to your 'type 1' as a "circle" of track, and your 'type 2' as a "reversing track or loop" (because the train literally turns around and comes back to it self on the same track) it makes a simple distinction.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of thomas_applink@...
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:52 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Rail Gaps Point of clarification

I am a little confused too. We need to clarify what we are talking about. There are two types of "loop".
1. Regular loop. Same as out-of-the box circle or loop. Train goes in one direction. There is an inside and outside rail. (Track looks like "O") 2. Reversing loop. Track loops back to switch, and merges to one track. 'Left' track can be followed around to become 'Right' track. (track looks like "P")

For type 1, the only reason not to connect the buss as a loop would be signal interference, as the signal follows the wire and meets at the far edge of the loop. For this reason, having the buss and track gaped at some point on the layout may eliminate some odd errors. If you have no problems, don't worry about it.

For type 2, you need to wire the same as you would for DC, but maybe using a DCC reversing module instead of a dpdt switch. Polarity rules still apply.
Thomas

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Harvey L. McRae" <hlmcrae@...> wrote:

Evidently you have not comprehended what I wrote. I'll persue this no further as it does not make sense to carry on this discussion.

Thanks.


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