Re: How DCC signal is superimposed onto AC voltage

Aaron Lau <aaronlwc@...>

Thank you very much. I have a clearer picture on how signal is
superimposed on AC.

Just for curiousity sake, since this is so simple, why wasn't this
being introduced long time ago...like in the 60's or 70's? What make
it so 'acceptable' in the 90's? The only reason I can of (not even
sure if i am right)is that the signal can only be decoded by a
microcontroller. Am i right to say that?

Aros

--- In WiringForDCC@..., Mark Gurries <gurriesm@c...>
wrote:

I would also add this thought.

Most people only think of "AC" to be 60Hz sinewave power as found
in the
AC power outlet. Thus when the term AC is spoken, people jump to
that
concept of what AC means and stick to it. That is not the persons
fault
for that is often all they ever been exposed to (known) as the
definition.

In reality the meaning of AC goes way beyond that specific
implementation and is more generic and basic at the same time. The
terms AC is short for "Alternating Current". AC simply means
current
that is flowing back and forth changing voltage polarity as it
goes at a
rate described in terms of a frequency.

The definition does NOT include or automatically imply a numerical

Voltage Level
Voltage Frequency
Voltage Waveshape

The everyday 120V 60Hz (Sinewave) AC power is but only ONE possible
implementation of AC current flow that we all know so well. It is
a
fixed 120V current that changes polarity 60 times a second.

Many AC toy transformers (old Lionel) also put out AC power. The
only
difference is that they step down the voltage to something safer
such as
16V. But it is still a 60Hz Sinewave.

So DCC introduces yet another signal the ALSO meets the AC
definition.

Low Voltage, Dual Frequency, SquareWave as Don Described below.
In HO
the voltage is 14.25V, 12V for N scale.

Thus to understand DCC, one must free one's mind from fixed
definitions of AC power.

Hope this helps.

Quite simple in theory. There are many means to modulate one
signal
with another, but for DCC the
frequency (or period) of each cycle of AC is changed between two
different frequencies to represent a
binary one or zero. This is a form of integral cycle frequency
shift
keying. For DCC the carrier is
a flat-topped rectangular AC rather than sinusoidal.
The detection means simply looks for the zero crossings and
measures
the time between them to
determine if a one or zero is being transmitted.
The DCC communication protocol (the particular language of ones
and
zeroes) is spelled out in the
details found at www.nmra.org.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Aaron Lau
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:30 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] How DCC signal is superimposed onto AC
voltage

Hi

Can someone explain to me how signal can be superimposed onto a
AC
voltage? I tried finding websites to explain it in technical
term, but
to no avail.

Generally, I can't picture how this can happen, needless to say
how to
decode it.

Aros

http://www.WiringForDCC.com

http://www.WiringForDCC.com

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Linear Technology
Power Supply & Battery Charger Applications Engineer/Manager
---------------------------------------------------------
Model Railroad Club and NMRA DCC presentations are at:
http://www.siliconvalleylines.com/index.html
--------------------------------------------------------
Audio Enthusiast (Love SAE equipment)
----------------------------------------------------------

Peco double slip insulfrog

Elliott Janofsky <ejanofsky@...>

I'm trying to wire a Peco insulfrog double slip to make it more DCC
friendly. Any suggestions? Thanks, Elliott

Re: How DCC signal is superimposed onto AC voltage

Mark Gurries

I would also add this thought.

Most people only think of "AC" to be 60Hz sinewave power as found in the
AC power outlet. Thus when the term AC is spoken, people jump to that
concept of what AC means and stick to it. That is not the persons fault
for that is often all they ever been exposed to (known) as the
definition.

In reality the meaning of AC goes way beyond that specific
implementation and is more generic and basic at the same time. The
terms AC is short for "Alternating Current". AC simply means current
that is flowing back and forth changing voltage polarity as it goes at a
rate described in terms of a frequency.

The definition does NOT include or automatically imply a numerical

Voltage Level
Voltage Frequency
Voltage Waveshape

The everyday 120V 60Hz (Sinewave) AC power is but only ONE possible
implementation of AC current flow that we all know so well. It is a
fixed 120V current that changes polarity 60 times a second.

Many AC toy transformers (old Lionel) also put out AC power. The only
difference is that they step down the voltage to something safer such as
16V. But it is still a 60Hz Sinewave.

So DCC introduces yet another signal the ALSO meets the AC definition.

Low Voltage, Dual Frequency, SquareWave as Don Described below. In HO
the voltage is 14.25V, 12V for N scale.

Thus to understand DCC, one must free one's mind from fixed traditional
definitions of AC power.

Hope this helps.

Quite simple in theory. There are many means to modulate one signal
with another, but for DCC the
frequency (or period) of each cycle of AC is changed between two
different frequencies to represent a
binary one or zero. This is a form of integral cycle frequency shift
keying. For DCC the carrier is
a flat-topped rectangular AC rather than sinusoidal.
The detection means simply looks for the zero crossings and measures
the time between them to
determine if a one or zero is being transmitted.
The DCC communication protocol (the particular language of ones and
zeroes) is spelled out in the
details found at www.nmra.org.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Aaron Lau
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:30 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] How DCC signal is superimposed onto AC voltage

Hi

Can someone explain to me how signal can be superimposed onto a AC
voltage? I tried finding websites to explain it in technical term, but
to no avail.

Generally, I can't picture how this can happen, needless to say how to
decode it.

Aros

http://www.WiringForDCC.com

http://www.WiringForDCC.com

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Linear Technology
Power Supply & Battery Charger Applications Engineer/Manager
---------------------------------------------------------
Model Railroad Club and NMRA DCC presentations are at:
http://www.siliconvalleylines.com/index.html
--------------------------------------------------------
Audio Enthusiast (Love SAE equipment)
----------------------------------------------------------

Re: How DCC signal is superimposed onto AC voltage

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>

Quite simple in theory. There are many means to modulate one signal with another, but for DCC the frequency (or period) of each cycle of AC is changed between two different frequencies to represent a binary one or zero. This is a form of integral cycle frequency shift keying. For DCC the carrier is a flat-topped rectangular AC rather than sinusoidal.
The detection means simply looks for the zero crossings and measures the time between them to determine if a one or zero is being transmitted.
The DCC communication protocol (the particular language of ones and zeroes) is spelled out in the details found at www.nmra.org.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Aaron Lau
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:30 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] How DCC signal is superimposed onto AC voltage

Hi

Can someone explain to me how signal can be superimposed onto a AC
voltage? I tried finding websites to explain it in technical term, but
to no avail.

Generally, I can't picture how this can happen, needless to say how to
decode it.

Aros

http://www.WiringForDCC.com

Re: How DCC signal is superimposed onto AC voltage

brianw1138@...

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Aaron Lau" <aaronlwc@...>

How DCC signal is superimposed onto AC voltage

Aaron Lau <aaronlwc@...>

Hi

Can someone explain to me how signal can be superimposed onto a AC
voltage? I tried finding websites to explain it in technical term, but
to no avail.

Generally, I can't picture how this can happen, needless to say how to
decode it.

Aros

Re: Turnout Control via PC?

steve <snorring@...>

I went through this thought process about a year ago.

I purchased a DS54, CVP's products, Lenz or Atlas, Team digiatal.

I like the CVP product you need the edge connector and some time
soldering. The DS 54 is overkill i use it for crossing signals and i
really like the lenz/atlas product since it is very simple.

I am using JMRI to contol the decoders. Tony's has a very good review
of all the stationary decoders. \$8-10 per turnout is what the cost
is. I like using the computer and Macros to set up routes, especially
when running my yard. 1 button throws 8 switches.

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Kyle" <kaysievert@s...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

I am tempted to use a PC to control the switches on my layout.

Now, an easy way would be to buy a bunch of DS54's and to go broke
over that.
From what I can tell doing some research is, that it'll cost \$10 and
up per turnout to control them with a PC.
Way too costly, since I'm planning on having 32 turnouts on my layout.

Is there a cheaper way to do this? I don't necessarily need DCC
control, since I'm not planning on using my throttle to control the
turnouts. A cheap PC I/O interface maybe?

I looked into the following stationary decoders:
Digitrax DS54
CML DAC10
Team Digital SMD8

Here's my current setup:
Peco PL10 twin-coil motors
Digitrax Zephir
Loco Buffer II
Spare PC

If any of you know of a solution that would cost less than \$10 per
turnout, I'd be very interested.

Thanks!

Re: Turnout Control via PC?

Just because you have DCC in your locomotives, doesn't mean you need
to use electronics to control your turnouts. The old fashioned way -
using a center-off momentary toggle switch - is still a good way to
control turnouts.

I'm using DS-54s to control my mainline turnouts. All my other
turnouts are controlled the old fashioned way.

Allan

getting started with DCC

tundrathe <tundrathe@...>

I am about to start building a medium sized ho layout, after an
absence of about 40 years. I am starting from "scratch". I would
greatly appreciate some recommendations, especially with respect to
dcc operating systems, Lenz vs Digitrax vs ?, type of turnouts to use,
etc.

thanks.

N Gauge LED lighting

alangdance <alangdance@...>

I would like to add some LEDs to my coaches about 7 or 8 Leds. I want
to control them from a Loco decoder. What is the best way to wire
these up. Is it possible to do this. Is there any drawing showning me
how to do this.

Turnout Control via PC?

Kyle <kaysievert@...>

Hi everyone,

I am tempted to use a PC to control the switches on my layout.

Now, an easy way would be to buy a bunch of DS54's and to go broke
over that.
From what I can tell doing some research is, that it'll cost \$10 and
up per turnout to control them with a PC.
Way too costly, since I'm planning on having 32 turnouts on my layout.

Is there a cheaper way to do this? I don't necessarily need DCC
control, since I'm not planning on using my throttle to control the
turnouts. A cheap PC I/O interface maybe?

I looked into the following stationary decoders:
Digitrax DS54
CML DAC10
Team Digital SMD8

Here's my current setup:
Peco PL10 twin-coil motors
Digitrax Zephir
Loco Buffer II
Spare PC

If any of you know of a solution that would cost less than \$10 per
turnout, I'd be very interested.

Thanks!

Testking Offers \$99 deal

freezer_john2004 <freezer_john2004@...>

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Re: Three way turnout

Bob,

A 3-way turnout is planned for my next website update. That will
probably happen over the Christmas holiday break.

Allan

Re: IDC Connectors

jmscnw <jmscnw@...>

Doug,

Thanks for the clarification. I did find Allan's recommendation for the
517-905 IDC's on the web site. The Mouser catalog confused me because
it states: 22-18 tap wire only. I will order some today.

James

Re: IDC Connectors

Doug Stuard <dstuard@...>

3M ScotchLok 905 connectors accomodate 18-14 AWG on the "run" and 22-
18 AWG on the "tap" connection. They are single blade connectors.
I dont believe there is a dual blade (similar to the ScotchLok 567,
12-10 run, 18-14 tap) for your smaller wire.

http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/utilities_telecom/electrical
_contractors/node_GSPV65GVLXbe/root_GST1T4S9TCgv/vroot_GSBCDFDZ1Zge/g
vel_RZZJLFZNT6gl/theme_us_electricalcontractors_3_0/command_AbcPageHa
ndler/output_html

Doug

b --- In WiringForDCC@..., "John Churchward"
<jcebay@n...> wrote:

Hi
I do not have the catalogue but I have just started wiring up
and laying
using just those gauges and I have used a 3m scotchlok which has a
1/4"
blade recepticle built in. That means if you have a problem you
can just
unclip that feeder. It does mean that you have to buy a bag of
well but you can also put more than one feeder into the blade if
you want
to.........works well for me

Regards

John Churchward
-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On
Behalf Of jmscnw
Sent: 01 December 2005 00:10
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] IDC Connectors

I am using 14 gauge wire for bus and 20 gauge wire for feeders.
I am not sure which type will work well for DCC.
I have a Mouser catalog which sells several types.

http://www.WiringForDCC.com

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Three way turnout

Bob Young <bob.young@...>

Would you consider sending me a diagram the depicts the proper wiring
for a three way switch (turnout) for DCC compatibility?

Direct E'Mail is bob.young@...

Re: IDC Connectors

jmscnw <jmscnw@...>

John,

Do you remember the 3M stock number ?

Thanks,
James

Hi
I do not have the catalogue but I have just started wiring up
and laying
using just those gauges and I have used a 3m scotchlok which has a
1/4"
blade recepticle built in. That means if you have a problem you can
just
unclip that feeder. It does mean that you have to buy a bag of
well but you can also put more than one feeder into the blade if
you want
to.........works well for me

Regards

John Churchward

Re: IDC Connectors

John Churchward <jcebay@...>

Hi
I do not have the catalogue but I have just started wiring up and laying
using just those gauges and I have used a 3m scotchlok which has a 1/4"
blade recepticle built in. That means if you have a problem you can just
unclip that feeder. It does mean that you have to buy a bag of blades as
well but you can also put more than one feeder into the blade if you want
to.........works well for me

Regards

John Churchward

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On
Behalf Of jmscnw
Sent: 01 December 2005 00:10
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] IDC Connectors

I am using 14 gauge wire for bus and 20 gauge wire for feeders.
I am not sure which type will work well for DCC.
I have a Mouser catalog which sells several types.

http://www.WiringForDCC.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

a.. Visit your group "WiringForDCC" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WiringForDCC-unsubscribe@...

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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IDC Connectors

jmscnw <jmscnw@...>

I am using 14 gauge wire for bus and 20 gauge wire for feeders.
I am not sure which type will work well for DCC.
I have a Mouser catalog which sells several types.

Re: Peco Code100 Points

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>

Well...a combination of lucky & smart.
1. With electro-frog you recognized the need to provide insulated rail joiners at the diverging frog rails and permanently wired power for other track extensions. Good move.
2. But with a brand new switch you don't yet see a need to have the point rails and metal frog powered through extra rail feeders and a separate external switch. So far you have good connections to power those rails. Just wait until the points get dirty and internal connections start to corrode.
3. Without derailments you have not yet seen what happens when you get a wheel to opposite polarity point rail short while the point rail is being powered through the tiny contact area of the opposite point from a 5 or 8 amp booster. As soon as you burn the points good once or twice, re-read #2.

4. With insul-frog you don't need the insulated track joiners at diverging frog rails as those rails don't switch polarity. The frog itself is insulated. But now you have a known dead spot in the track. Usually works OK with all-wheel pick-up on diesels.
5. You can still have something similar to problem #3 above as connections to the inner turnout rails are bonded together be metal to metal contacts in the plastic molds rather than good solid soldered connections. Eventually you will wish you had added more rail feeder drops.

You don't HAVE TO do anything to these switches to run trains with DCC (except recognize the need for #1 above). Your luck and annoyance level may vary. Making them more DCC Friendly simply reduces the probable occurance of occasional annoying problems that takes the fun out of running trains when they keep stalling at track switches.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Nigel Freeman
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 2:04 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Peco Code100 Points

I am new to modelling and trying out wiring of points prior to
building layout.
I have read a lot about wiring of Peco points, so tonight I set up
three straights with a point to see what happens.
I did it with both Elctrofrog and Insulfrog.
With Electro I used insulated joiners on the frog rails and no other
change and all three straights have power feeds and everything ran
with no problems.
I then changed to insulfrog using the same straights and metal joiners
on teh frog instead of insulated and again no problem.
Is this because I am not using a point switch for switching the frog
power or am I just lucky that I am not getting shorts.
The electrofrog is the same as the code 55 and old turnouts in the
wiring peco turnout section of web site.
Can someone please explain why I was lucky.
Thanks
Nigel

http://www.WiringForDCC.com