Date   
do I need new bus wires

DAVE STEVENS <FLEXIBLETRACK@...>
 

I am using a lenz 100 on a 18*8 layout,main line & branch.I have a
spare lenz Compact+transformer I would like to use the compact to power
my branch line,which has 1 rail connection with the main line all ready
fitted with insulated rail joiners. Do I need to fit new bus wires and
feeds for the branch,and will trains pass branch to main line on the
same throttle. Any information would be appreciated.

Bachmann Tender Connector

Brian Williams <brianw1138@...>
 

Does anyone happen to know a part number for the connector that mates
to the 2 and 4 pin plugs on a Bachmann Spectrum Tender?

I have some older Rivarossi Y6bs (not DCC ready) and I want to run
them with Bachmann tenders (which are).

I don't expect a bachmann number, since they don't even acknowledge
the thing exists on the locomotive diagrams; but a molex (or other
OEM) number would rule.

Train Navigation

a_allemby <a_allemby@...>
 

Hi, I've seen that Fleishmann has introduced Train Navigation, but
according to the literature it can only be used with their Twin
Centre (6802). Is there any truth in this? I'm currently using the
Lenz (LVZ100) Command Station and would like to use a Train
Navigation System in conjunction with My Lenz set-up. Can anyone
offer advice?
Thanks Adrian

Wiring Walthers/Shin 3-Way Switch for DCC

Dave <dklproductions@...>
 

To all,

I am trying to wire a new DCC friendly Walthers/Shin 3-WAY turnout,
and need some help! I am trying to figure out how to connect the 3
seperate frogs so they are properly powered depending on how the throw
rails are aligned. I have not purchased any type of switch machine
yet, as I do not know what type would be best for this situation. I
was able to solder leads onto the 3 frogs to drop down under the
table, as well as solder jumpers from the closure rails to throw
rails. But how do I make sure the frogs will be powered correctly??

Thanks,
DAVE

Re: The correct solder type for Feeder Wire and Rail joints

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

It sounds like you have a good plan.

Whatever liquid flux you buy, don't buy acid flux. That will eat your
track over time. I can definitely recommend the liquid flux by H&N
mentioned in my website. I use the "gel" for soldering feeders to
rail by using a toothpick to get a drop. I use a q-tip and
the "liquid" for soldering the feeders to the buses. The stuff works
great!

Re: The correct solder type for Feeder Wire and Rail joints

sjanis0249 <sjanis0249@...>
 

Thank you for the speedy response, I will go out an buy some solid
core solder and liquid flux, it was taking too much time to heat the
rails to make the rosin core flow into the joint ( even with a
230/150 Watt Crsaftsman Soldering gun. Meleting was not an issue
though, I was using alligator clips as heat sinks to keep the ties
from melting, However the clips were also probably adding to the
length of time to heat, since they were absorbing some of the heat.

Regarding the Joiners, I am only solder rail joiners on the curves
(36 radius) and using one feeder wire on each radius and then about
every 6 to ten feet solder feeders on straight track sections. I
leave a small gap (1/32 inch) here and there on the straights to
adjust for humidity (Basement is damp in summer, although I run a
dehumidifier) and dry in the winter (to adjust for my wood L girder
bench work).


WiringForDCC@..., "wirefordcc" <wire4dcc_admin@c...>
wrote:

First a few words on soldering joiners:

Electrically, you do not need to solder both feeders to every piece
of
rail and solder the joiners. You only need to do one or the
other.

Mechanically, if you solder every rail joiner, your track may
buckle
as your room temperature changes. Modelers do like to solder the
joiners of flex track to keep from getting a kink in the joint.

Regarding your use of solder:

Solder that is 96% tin and 4% silver and has a rosin core will
definitely work. However, for easiest solderability, I suggest you
use solder that contains 37-40% lead. I have found that solder
with
4% silver and/or no lead takes more heat to solder than solder
containing only .4% or 0% silver and 37-40% lead. I like the high
(4%) silver content lead for soldering G-scale track - which is
able
to take the additional heat a little easier. But for HO track, you
are likely to melt ties.

While rosin core solder on HO track definitely works, I suggest you
use a solid solder that has no rosin core and use liquid flux.
With
rosin core, you have to apply heat to melt the rosin. With liquid
flux, you don't need to apply this additional heat since the flux
is
laready liquid. So with liquid flux, you run a slightly lesser
risk
of melting ties.

For more on soldering, see my webpage on soldering:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/solder.htm

Allan

Re: The correct solder type for Feeder Wire and Rail joints

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

First a few words on soldering joiners:

Electrically, you do not need to solder both feeders to every piece of
rail and solder the joiners. You only need to do one or the other.

Mechanically, if you solder every rail joiner, your track may buckle
as your room temperature changes. Modelers do like to solder the
joiners of flex track to keep from getting a kink in the joint.

Regarding your use of solder:

Solder that is 96% tin and 4% silver and has a rosin core will
definitely work. However, for easiest solderability, I suggest you
use solder that contains 37-40% lead. I have found that solder with
4% silver and/or no lead takes more heat to solder than solder
containing only .4% or 0% silver and 37-40% lead. I like the high
(4%) silver content lead for soldering G-scale track - which is able
to take the additional heat a little easier. But for HO track, you
are likely to melt ties.

While rosin core solder on HO track definitely works, I suggest you
use a solid solder that has no rosin core and use liquid flux. With
rosin core, you have to apply heat to melt the rosin. With liquid
flux, you don't need to apply this additional heat since the flux is
laready liquid. So with liquid flux, you run a slightly lesser risk
of melting ties.

For more on soldering, see my webpage on soldering:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/solder.htm

Allan

The correct solder type for Feeder Wire and Rail joints

sjanis0249 <sjanis0249@...>
 

I am soldering feeder wire and also soldering rail joints on code 100
flex track.

I have some electrical repair solder I just purchased and it says it is
lead free, 96% tin and 4% silver, with rosin flux core.

Will this work?

I see reference to Rosin Core solder that is 60% tin and 40% lead in
some railroad books. Is this better or is my mix better, or does it
matter at all?

Re: Installing sound decoders in P2K GP7 & 9s

sjanis0249 <sjanis0249@...>
 

--- In WiringForDCC@..., "brian1961go" <brian1961go@y...>
wrote:

Anyone provide advice on installing sound decoders in P2k GP7 or 9s.
Where do I put the speaker?

I can just sell my older ones and buy new engines with sound but I
have super-detailed two of the engines so I need help in installing
the sound decoder.

TIA, Brian
I had the same issues, Had 3 GP7's with Torpedo tubes installes and
roof mount antenna's (PRR Geeps) and istalling sound proved so time
consuming and so damaging to the exiting frames and engines that I
bought a new Proto 2000 GP9 and found that the shells from both my old
GP7's and GP9's fit perfectly on the new factory proto GP9 frames. All
I had to do was take out the long hood number boards and saw the back
part off so the light bulb would fit. Trainworld had them for
$159...All in all it was easier to buy the new units...The time and
effort to get the old units sound ready was not worth the money or
damage

Re: Prodigy & CV's

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

CVs are not complicated. Here is an explanation of them:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/intro2dcc.htm#a15

Many of the sound equiped locomotives come with a basic instruction
sheet that covers the more common CVs for that locomotive. In the
instruction sheet is usually a web address where you can download the
complete manual. The complete manual usually describes every CV and
what the various values control.

Many basic DCC systems are not capable of accessing all the CVs in a
locomotive. Refer to your manual to see what CVs can be changed.

Prodigy & CV's

aaartlib <aaartlib@...>
 

I've been running on Prodigy and CV's are a complete mystery to me. Is
there an instructional booklet available? I now have a sound (QSI)
equipped loco and would sure appreciate any advice as to getting the
most out of it. Do I need a new DCC system?

how to obtain an NEM 652 socket

wmconquerant <william_neale@...>
 

I'm new to DCC but have successfully hard-wired two locos.

Given that decoders are certain to become obsolete as better and
better become available, I think it would be a good idea to hard-wire
the NEM 652 socket into my non-DCC-ready locos so that I can change
the decoder easily in the future.

So I've got two questions:

1 Is this a good or a bad idea?

2 If good, where can I buy the sockets? Have searched web and forums
for hours but found nothing.


Thanks in advance. To see how modellers try to help each other is
truly humbling

Re: DCC Installation Bachmann F(G)n3 Shay

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Bill,

I don't know which variation of the Shay you have. In any event, I
only have experience with the first generation. The first
generation required surgery in the trucks to isolate the pickups
from the motor. I don't recall that Bachmann claimed that the first
generation was DCC ready.

The first generation also had trucks that fell apart. Bachmann came
out with a retrofit that solved some of the problems, but it was a
piece of junk to me.

I think about the third generation, Bachmann came out with new
trucks last year. I installed them about 6 months ago. So far, so
good. Knock on wood. These trucks did have the pickups isolated
from motor.

Bachmann's definition of DCC ready and what really is DCC ready are
two VERY different things. If you want a few laughs, read my
installation notes on the DCC ready Consolidation. The colors in
Bachmann definitley don't match NMRA standards. Neither does LGB,
which doesn't claim to be DCC compatiable. LGB has their own
system - which I understand is based on an outdated Lenz system.

I try to retain as much of the manufacturers hardware, but sometimes
it has to go.

Re: Existing Untwisted + Booster location

KDK <kenkal@...>
 

Thanks for your informative reply Don. Ken

----- Original Message -----
From: Vollrath, Don
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 9:33 AM
Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Re: Existing Untwisted + Booster location


Like Allan's preaching about DCC fiendly turnouts, my advice leans in the direction of providing solutions that work in each and every case. Anecdotal evidence may show that in you're case, it can work without taking any special measures.

However...It DOES depend on what boosters (brand & model) you use, AND the type of wiring, AND your expectations of "trouble free" operation.
Energy efficient boosters (Like NCE) have fast DCC switching elements that tend to accentuate signal 'ringing' on the DCC distribution bus. Long DCC bus lines, the significant inductance of 'open wiring' and lack of R/C terminators magnify those effects. Reasonable buss lengths made from twisted and terminated wire help to suppress them. Boosters with slower switching voltage transitions (like digitraxx) don't aggravate the ringing phenomenon so much. Using them may get you by with more relaxed wiring conditions. But they do create more heat and have much larger heat sink requirements.
Another symptom of wiring inductance shows up as 'slow loco' spots on the layout, particularly with locos or consists that draw more current than others. DCC track power is AC. Track voltage droop with current is caused by a combination of the electrical resistance (R) of the DCC bus system and track wiring (DC ohms as measured by an ohmmeter - a property of the wire gage and length) AND the reactance (AC impedance or 'resistance' at DCC frequencies - XsubL = 2*pi*f*L) caused by inductance (L) of the wiring current path, AND the amount of amperes drawn by the loco(s) at that remote location. Using a larger gage of wire will reduce the R part, but does nothing to reduce wiring reactance. Inductance is affected by distance between the wires and overall length. Twisting the DCC buss wires together reduces inductance to the minimum for a given length.
Your expectations and observations of acceptability may also vary. If you don't operate with locos drawing significant amounts of current you may not notice a loco slow-down or the fact that the DCC system has trouble getting commands to the loco decoder in certain locations of the layout if you're trains are just running around and around....Caused in fact by the effects mentioned above.

As other have said...You're mileage may vary.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 11:52 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Existing Untwisted + Booster location


Thanks for your explanation, Don.

BTW, I've seen almost as many comments saying group all your boosters
together as I have to put the boosters in the center of their
district. Feeling a litle frustrated as the new kid on the block, I
called NCE. They suggested centralizing all the electronics in one
location. This is very confusing to me. Especially since I have a
friend who has a perfectly running, well over 1,000' mainline DCC
layout and yet uses 14 ga. wire, doesn't twist it, only has 3
districts, and centalizes all his boosters in one place. He seems to
violate every rule and yet has the perfect layout. Like most people,
I tend to beieve people who know more than I do. But it's a real
problem when many people on both sides give me directly conflicting
information and yet. fom what little I know each side makes perfect
sense in what they say and believe. Arggggghhhh!





http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links










http://www.WiringForDCC.com



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Re: Existing Untwisted + Booster location

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

Like Allan's preaching about DCC fiendly turnouts, my advice leans in the direction of providing solutions that work in each and every case. Anecdotal evidence may show that in you're case, it can work without taking any special measures.

However...It DOES depend on what boosters (brand & model) you use, AND the type of wiring, AND your expectations of "trouble free" operation.
Energy efficient boosters (Like NCE) have fast DCC switching elements that tend to accentuate signal 'ringing' on the DCC distribution bus. Long DCC bus lines, the significant inductance of 'open wiring' and lack of R/C terminators magnify those effects. Reasonable buss lengths made from twisted and terminated wire help to suppress them. Boosters with slower switching voltage transitions (like digitraxx) don't aggravate the ringing phenomenon so much. Using them may get you by with more relaxed wiring conditions. But they do create more heat and have much larger heat sink requirements.
Another symptom of wiring inductance shows up as 'slow loco' spots on the layout, particularly with locos or consists that draw more current than others. DCC track power is AC. Track voltage droop with current is caused by a combination of the electrical resistance (R) of the DCC bus system and track wiring (DC ohms as measured by an ohmmeter - a property of the wire gage and length) AND the reactance (AC impedance or 'resistance' at DCC frequencies - XsubL = 2*pi*f*L) caused by inductance (L) of the wiring current path, AND the amount of amperes drawn by the loco(s) at that remote location. Using a larger gage of wire will reduce the R part, but does nothing to reduce wiring reactance. Inductance is affected by distance between the wires and overall length. Twisting the DCC buss wires together reduces inductance to the minimum for a given length.
Your expectations and observations of acceptability may also vary. If you don't operate with locos drawing significant amounts of current you may not notice a loco slow-down or the fact that the DCC system has trouble getting commands to the loco decoder in certain locations of the layout if you're trains are just running around and around....Caused in fact by the effects mentioned above.

As other have said...You're mileage may vary.
DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 11:52 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Existing Untwisted + Booster location


Thanks for your explanation, Don.

BTW, I've seen almost as many comments saying group all your boosters
together as I have to put the boosters in the center of their
district. Feeling a litle frustrated as the new kid on the block, I
called NCE. They suggested centralizing all the electronics in one
location. This is very confusing to me. Especially since I have a
friend who has a perfectly running, well over 1,000' mainline DCC
layout and yet uses 14 ga. wire, doesn't twist it, only has 3
districts, and centalizes all his boosters in one place. He seems to
violate every rule and yet has the perfect layout. Like most people,
I tend to beieve people who know more than I do. But it's a real
problem when many people on both sides give me directly conflicting
information and yet. fom what little I know each side makes perfect
sense in what they say and believe. Arggggghhhh!





http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Existing Untwisted + Booster location

Ken <kenkal@...>
 

Thanks for your explanation, Don.

BTW, I've seen almost as many comments saying group all your boosters
together as I have to put the boosters in the center of their
district. Feeling a litle frustrated as the new kid on the block, I
called NCE. They suggested centralizing all the electronics in one
location. This is very confusing to me. Especially since I have a
friend who has a perfectly running, well over 1,000' mainline DCC
layout and yet uses 14 ga. wire, doesn't twist it, only has 3
districts, and centalizes all his boosters in one place. He seems to
violate every rule and yet has the perfect layout. Like most people,
I tend to beieve people who know more than I do. But it's a real
problem when many people on both sides give me directly conflicting
information and yet. fom what little I know each side makes perfect
sense in what they say and believe. Arggggghhhh!

Re: Existing Untwisted

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

The issue is not the need for an electrostatic or EMI shield, so providing one with aluminum wrap won't help....It is inductance and subsequent transmission line effects caused by it that causes the problems. If inductance of the wiring is too great, it introduces voltage loss at DCC frequencies such that there is too little voltage left at the track to operate the decoder or train. Compounding this problem is reflected-wave effects of open (unterminated) two wire transmission lines that causes garbled communication signals to loco decoders. Using short DCC bus runs (short from booster to track) is one answer. Running the two DCC bus wires as close to each other as possible [i.e. - Twisting them together] reduces inductance for the same length of wire and allows the use of longer runs before problems begin to develop. [Running the bus wires in parallel but several inches apart makes the situation worse.] Terminating the end of the DCC bus runs with the proper R/C network (twisted or not) reduces the effects of transmission line reflections. Doing both (twisting + r/c terminators) is your best bet for trouble free operation....Even then, one can expect problems if the distance from booster to track is >50ft. Expect real problems with lengths of 165ft. The solution is to split the layout into several booster districts, each about 60-80 ft long around the layout, with extra boosters mounted near the center of each district so the DCC bus fans out only ~30-40 ft in either direction. Even then...Use a twisted wire DCC bus with R/C terminators at each end.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 12:44 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Existing Untwisted


The Wiring for DCC site lists keeping cable runs to less than 30 feet
as about the only somewhat solution for existing layouts w/o twisted
bus wires wires. I was discussing this with a friend who is building
his layout. Unfortunately, he brought up the iissue of twisting AFTER
he had already run about 165', untwisted and track feeds in place. The
other 165 feet WILL be twisted.

He asked if wrapping the wire with aluminum foil would help. I don't
know if it would, but with my untrained mind, I would suspect it
would, unless grounded, concentrate the interence more so? Or does the
interference pass through the foil? Can someone comment to its
possible effectiveness?

I was also wondering if wrapping (1 to 3 per foot)another wire
(18ga.?) around those untwisted bus wires and grounding one or both
ends (acting like shielding?)would help?

Thanks in advance. Ken





http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

Existing Untwisted

Ken <kenkal@...>
 

The Wiring for DCC site lists keeping cable runs to less than 30 feet
as about the only somewhat solution for existing layouts w/o twisted
bus wires wires. I was discussing this with a friend who is building
his layout. Unfortunately, he brought up the iissue of twisting AFTER
he had already run about 165', untwisted and track feeds in place. The
other 165 feet WILL be twisted.

He asked if wrapping the wire with aluminum foil would help. I don't
know if it would, but with my untrained mind, I would suspect it
would, unless grounded, concentrate the interence more so? Or does the
interference pass through the foil? Can someone comment to its
possible effectiveness?

I was also wondering if wrapping (1 to 3 per foot)another wire
(18ga.?) around those untwisted bus wires and grounding one or both
ends (acting like shielding?)would help?

Thanks in advance. Ken

DCC Installation Bachmann F(G)n3 Shay

hairylanding <hairylanding@...>
 

OK, so I'm attempting to install an LGB decoder and Phoenix sound
system in the Bachmann G Scale Shay. I have installed numerous motor
and sound decoders in O scale locomotives. But this one is a mystery.

Bachmann says this locomotive is "DCC Ready". Apparently this is a bit
of an overstatement! Thus far I have the LGB decoder talking to the
motor in test mode but cannot get it to work with the shay's track
pickups. This may be because the motor in the trucks are not isolated
from the pickups!

After readung a couple of articles on DCC installation in this model,
particularly the one by Allan Gartner, it appears that one throws away
the circuit board that came with the model and, basically, rewires the
whole thing. Is all this really necessary. Do I have to dissassemble
the trucks and rewire them to isolate the motor from the power pickups?
The Bachmann wiring diagrams and wire list (on the DC Wiring diagram)
look like all one has to do is hook the decoder up to the correct
terminal positions. Apparently not, huh?

The color coding of the decoder wires on the DCC Wiring diagram
definitely do not conform to accepted DCC standards. BTW, neither does
the the color coding on the LGB decoder! Does Bachmann assume one is
using one of there special decoders? If so, which one?

Any help appreciated ..... Bill

Re: Peco On30 turnouts

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Chuck,

I have not seen a Peco On30. If no one else replies, you will have to
compare your On30 to the diagrams on my website. It should be easy to
figure out which diagram your turnout resembles.

Allan



--- In WiringForDCC@..., "chuck_wolfson" <cwolfson@s...>
wrote:
Are the Peco On30 turnouts basically the same for DCC purposes as
the
HO Electrofrog turnouts?

Thanks in advance for any help.