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Re: help; pls

wyantj01@...
 

Check out this group: https://groups.io/g/NCE-DCC


Re: question on buss wire connections

frank@...
 

Thanks Joanne for the response and comments. I don't have power routing switches so I am not sure if your situation is comparable.

I am still confused about whether or not I need my buss wire lengths to be consistent with the electrical blocks on my track. It sounds like your tracks are synced up with your buss wires in terms of length but I am not sure i am getting that right??. Also, if you do have the track and buss wires synced together (same start and end point), I am still not clear whether or not that is necessary.?

Thanks again for any clarification.

Frank


Re: Wall wart uses?

Don Weigt
 

Every wall wart I've ever examined closely has all sorts of safety listings printed on it. And, they are used so manufacturers don't need to jump through the hoops to sell products containing the line voltage circuits in the rest of the product, also for compatibility with AC line power all over the world by simply using a different wall wart.

I don't think Blair meant safety was hilarious. But, there's a lot more that goes into reusing a wall wart for a different purpose. Even though I have a dozen or more leftover ones, I haven't yet found one that fit a project's needs. I always have ended up using something else. You may find one that's just what you need, but I haven't yet.

A wall wart may have AC or DC output, if DC it may or may not be filtered, if filtered it may or may not be regulated, finally, its voltage and current ratings may not be compatible with the need.

The only exception to that I've found is all the regulated 5V wall warts that are interchangeable for charging cell phones, tablets, and other electronics. We use one for multiple phones, an emergency radio and my Android tablet.


--
Don Weigt
Connecticut


Re: question on buss wire connections

JoAnn Donaldson
 

Frank,
   My small layout is divided into four Electrical Zones. Each is feed from a output of the PM42 Power Distribution. This so that if I short one Zone it does not affect the other three. Also I have a small yard in the front and a small hidden yard on the back. There I have each length of yard track with it's own buss feed. I use power routing switches. This allows me to keep all the tracks powered. I also have feeders on track that lead to the yards and leaves the yard. So the front zone has three on the yard tracks and one each entering and leaving for a total of five feeders to that Zone Buss. So be careful of which switch you use. I prefer the Power Routing Switch. The problem comes if your moving a train on yard track and need to move another Engine on a parallel track. If the switches are pointing to the track that the train is on you can not operate an engine on the parallel track unless it has it's own feeder.

On Sunday, March 27, 2022, 09:58:28 AM CDT, frank@... <frank@...> wrote:


HELP!!

I am a newbie and have a question about how to properly connect and layout buss wires when there are electrical blocks or districts on the layout. I have two tracks on my layout and a buss wire servicing each track via feeder wires to the buss. I have set up 2 electrical blocks on each track using insulated rail joiners for a total of four electrical blocks or districts in the layout. My question has to do with the buss wires and whether or not I need to create separate buss wire lengths for each of the four electrical blocks on the track? If so, I assume that I would need to cut the buss wires at the appropriate locations (to end up with 4 separate buss wires in total)  so that the length of buss each wire is consistent with the track length for each block? Is this correct or is it unnecessary to do this?

Frank


Re: help; pls

Greg Harter
 

I will check that out.  NCE doesn't know about it, but NCE facebook page might.
Thanks, I didn't realize this was off-topic,.

Greg Harter


question on buss wire connections

frank@...
 

HELP!!

I am a newbie and have a question about how to properly connect and layout buss wires when there are electrical blocks or districts on the layout. I have two tracks on my layout and a buss wire servicing each track via feeder wires to the buss. I have set up 2 electrical blocks on each track using insulated rail joiners for a total of four electrical blocks or districts in the layout. My question has to do with the buss wires and whether or not I need to create separate buss wire lengths for each of the four electrical blocks on the track? If so, I assume that I would need to cut the buss wires at the appropriate locations (to end up with 4 separate buss wires in total)  so that the length of buss each wire is consistent with the track length for each block? Is this correct or is it unnecessary to do this?

Frank


Help

JoAnn Donaldson
 

I am looking for someone in the East Dallas, Richardson, Garland, and/or Mesquite Texas area that is into N Scale and would help me out to finish my N Scale Layout. I can be contacted at joannplano2005@....

JoAnn Donaldson


Re: Wall wart uses?

steambigboy
 

On Sat, Mar 26, 2022 at 09:45 AM, Blair wrote:
what's that got to do with a 400ma 12VDC wall wart?
In terms of safety, the electricity really does not care about the technical spec of the wall wart. If the wall wart is not designed and tested for use with MRR the technical spec.is irrelevant. The safety question should be number 1.
And the fact that somebody call safety concerns "hilarious" is unfortunate and very sad.....

Thanks for reading my post


Re: Wall wart uses?

Blair
 

Has anyone actually read the OP's post, and reply, before chiming in?  Honestly, "Steamiebigboy", what's that got to do with a 400ma 12VDC wall wart?

Wow.  Hilarious.

Blair


Re: Wall wart uses?

steambigboy
 

On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 11:07 AM, Blair wrote:

Unintelligible.  Do you mean on the 20VDC range, the meter reads 14.75VDC?  If so, it's unregulated.

I measured 13.86V on the original power supply which goes with DCS51, I'd expect similar value on the original "wall wart" (2.5A) with DCS50.

  Using it for anything that requires 12VDC unequivocally will certainly violate a warranty, and may produce smoke. 

I'm not aware of any DCC equipment which strictly requires 12V only.

Connecting it to anything that wants 15 volts at any reasonable current will be questionable, because the output will 'sag' towards 12V as you draw more current.

Use it for less critical stuff if you want, but remember, as you load it down that voltage will drop, so performance may change.  Me, I'd shelve it or toss it.

The first concern should be the safety. Does the "wall wart" meet the safety requirement for MRR, specifically the isolation ?

Thanks for reading my post


Re: help; pls

Blair
 

Greg

Respectfully, why not ask on the NCE list, or an NCE facebook page if one exists?  All of your questions deal with NCE-specific non-DCC-wiring topics.  This is totally off-topic for a forum about how to wire a layout for DCC.

Good luck in your search!

Blair

On 2022-03-25 22:38, Greg Harter wrote:

Our club needs to purchase additional NCE ProCab wireless units (4) and wired units (3).

the wireless units we purchased previously I converted to rechargeable batteries and also purchased a charging station.  We also need another charging station.  Can't remember where I got these conversion kits and charging station.  Can anybody help?

I also assume the radio cabs from NCE still only use alkaline batteries.  Is that right?

We also need 5 additional boards where we can plug in a couple of wired units around the layout..  The websites are confusing, I can't tell what specs we should ask for.  Sounds like the boards we originally purchased are no longer available.

Thanks all of youl!

Greg Harter
Columbus (Indiana) Area Railroad Club


help; pls

Greg Harter
 

Our club needs to purchase additional NCE ProCab wireless units (4) and wired units (3).

the wireless units we purchased previously I converted to rechargeable batteries and also purchased a charging station.  We also need another charging station.  Can't remember where I got these conversion kits and charging station.  Can anybody help?

I also assume the radio cabs from NCE still only use alkaline batteries.  Is that right?

We also need 5 additional boards where we can plug in a couple of wired units around the layout..  The websites are confusing, I can't tell what specs we should ask for.  Sounds like the boards we originally purchased are no longer available.

Thanks all of youl!

Greg Harter
Columbus (Indiana) Area Railroad Club


Re: Wall wart uses?

Don Weigt
 

Richard,

What is the power or especially output current rating? Many wall warts are rather low power, won't even power a programming track. Also, some DC wall warts may only rectify the DC, not filter it with a big capacitor. In that case, it won't power a DCC booster or programmer unless the booster or programmer has a big capacitor on its input, or you add one between the wall wart and the booster or programmer.

If you don't have an oscilloscope or graphing multimeter, it's hard to know whether the wall wart output is filtered or unfiltered DC. One way to tell would be to connect a 100 uF or larger 25 to 50 Volt capacitor to the DC output (plus to plus, minus to minus). If the DC measured across the output and capacitor is about 25% higher than the wall wart output alone, then the wall wart's output is unfiltered.

Simple filtering increases the average output voltage by "filling in" the voltage between rectified peaks. That does NOT increase the power the wall wart can safely deliver. It actually decreases it. But, for example, if the filtered voltage measured divided by the unfiltered voltage is 1.25, then divide the wall wart's current rating by that same 1.25 for an approximate filtered DC current rating. The maximum output power, the current times the voltage, is about the same.

Overloading it too much will at some point result in a drastic reduction in wall wart efficiency, more heat generation, and sagging output voltage. The wall wart probably is safe even if its output is short circuited, but don't rely on that, and don't load it so it's trying to output more wattage (power) than its rating.

Don Weigt

--
Don Weigt
Connecticut


Re: Wall wart uses?

Blair
 

Unintelligible.  Do you mean on the 20VDC range, the meter reads 14.75VDC?  If so, it's unregulated.  Using it for anything that requires 12VDC unequivocally will certainly violate a warranty, and may produce smoke.  Connecting it to anything that wants 15 volts at any reasonable current will be questionable, because the output will 'sag' towards 12V as you draw more current.

Use it for less critical stuff if you want, but remember, as you load it down that voltage will drop, so performance may change.  Me, I'd shelve it or toss it.

Your call.

Blair 

On 24/03/2022 12:20, Richard Neil via groups.io wrote:

20 DCV = 14.75-14.95... use or not?
Thanks_._,_._,_


Re: Wall wart uses?

Andy - Arlington TX <andy.j1s@...>
 

1 Amp at 12VDC will run a dedicated DCC decoder programming/test track with a SPROG II.

2 Amps at 12VDC will run a DCC++EX setup's motor driver board (the DCC track bus driver) for a small layout running a few N scale locomotives.

-- Andy - Arlington TX


Re: Wall wart uses?

Steve Hubbard
 

I have 4 - 3 amp regulated 12VDC wall warts, so they are available.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Don Vollrath
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2022 9:13 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Wall wart uses?

 

Any true “wall wart” where the ‘box’ plugs directly into the wall outlet is generally too small in watt and ampere rating to correctly power a DCC booster intended to operate a train. But you  might find one with a 1 to 2 amp rating suitable to operate a booster dedicated to feed DCC to an accessory bus. Be sure to read the nameplate rating and know if the voltage output is regulated or not.

 

DonV

 

 

 

 


Re: Wall wart uses?

Don Vollrath
 

Any true “wall wart” where the ‘box’ plugs directly into the wall outlet is generally too small in watt and ampere rating to correctly power a DCC booster intended to operate a train. But you might find one with a 1 to 2 amp rating suitable to operate a booster dedicated to feed DCC to an accessory bus. Be sure to read the nameplate rating and know if the voltage output is regulated or not.

DonV


Re: Wall wart uses?

PennsyNut
 

BillN: Anything that is DC only!
Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952.


Re: Wall wart uses?

Bill Nelson
 

Can't it be used to power a DCC track layout? 


Re: Wall wart uses?

Richard Neil
 

20 DCV = 14.75-14.95... use or not?
Thanks


-----Original Message-----
From: Blair <smithbr@...>
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Sent: Tue, Mar 22, 2022 2:40 pm
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Wall wart uses?

Richard
Get your voltmeter, set it to 20V range, and plug in the adapter in and measure the output with no load.  If it's a regulated supply, it will read 12V.  If it's not regulated, it may well be providing 16-20 volts, because the 12V, 400ma indicates what it will do with that much load; the output is higher at lower loads.
If it's regulated, you can use it for
- LED lights in buildings
- powering an Arduino, though 9V would be better.
- Powering a few Tortoises (30 ma per (or less), so up to 12 would be okay)
- any other small load application that comes along - there are lots of hobby devices that are 12V powered.
If it's NOT regulated, mark it clearly as such, and, I don't know, sequester it back in the garage?  I don't keep them around because sooner or later, someone will take the ratings plate literally.
Blair

On 2022-03-22 17:19, Richard Neil via groups.io wrote:
I found an AC-DC wall wart in the garage.  It's 120V, 11W and output is 12V, 400mA.  It's from an old phone charger.  What can I use it for? Thanks for suggestions.
Richard

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