Date   

Re: Droppers to bus

Jerry Michels
 

I am not trying to stir the pot, but we have used both AWG 20 and 22 stranded wire for drops that are over a foot long, depending on the specific location/situation. We use either AGW 12 or 14 for buss wiring (modified extension cords). For over six years these drops have operated flawlessly. We can reliably deliver power to six sound-equipped locomotives per block without problems. If we get over six sound-equipped locomotives in a given block, there is a problem with in-rush current after a derailment; the locomotives will not always reset. Not good form during an open house. This is something we can easily avoid if our members are up to snuff when running trains.

I should mention that we prefer to run our busses in a chase at roughly chest level. A lot of us are starting to have trouble soldering drops to busses while lying on our backs under the layout and dodging molten drops of solder. In some cases, especially large towns with a lot of sidings, we bring the drops together to a terminal block and them to the buss.

My thought is that it is important to 'stress test' a given block to determine its limits. No doubt that drops should be kept as short as possible, but sometimes the drops should be kept as short as 'feasibly' possible.

Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum
www.amarillorailmusuem.com


Re: Droppers to bus

John DeSantis
 

Thanks Morgan. I am in fact using 20AWG wires. 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: PennsyNut <fan4pennsy@...>
Date: 3/18/22 12:08 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Droppers to bus

May I make a suggestion based upon what "I think" you might be wanting to do? If you are talking about two tracks side by side, such as 2" between them, your little wires are going to be about 2". Therefore, what TimR said is right. I've done exactly that and used 22 AWG. No problems. So, it you are talking about more distance/more than 2", that's when you have to think about the wire size. The 22 AWG should be sufficient up to 10". More than that, go to 20 AWG. Or thereabouts. Hope this helps.
Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952.


Re: identification of ? decoder

Allan AE2V
 

Hi Greg,

There is a DCC company called CVP products, (cvpusa.com)  You might want to contact CVP.

But before you do, the easy thing to try is resetting the decoder.  Put the loco on a programming track and set CV8=8.  If this works, the locomotive will now be on address 3.  Then you will be able to set it up.  Note, some systems like NCE, act differently if you enter a leading zero or not.  So if in doubt, try it without and then with a leading zero.  

If that fails, contact CVP.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


identification of ? decoder

Greg Harter
 

A friend of mine bought a loco at a swap meet that looks like it has a decoder, but I can't wake it up.  There is only one identifying mark on it--'CVP'.  Can anybody help identify?

Thanks,
Greg Harter


Re: Droppers to bus

PennsyNut
 

May I make a suggestion based upon what "I think" you might be wanting to do? If you are talking about two tracks side by side, such as 2" between them, your little wires are going to be about 2". Therefore, what TimR said is right. I've done exactly that and used 22 AWG. No problems. So, it you are talking about more distance/more than 2", that's when you have to think about the wire size. The 22 AWG should be sufficient up to 10". More than that, go to 20 AWG. Or thereabouts. Hope this helps.
Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952.


Re: Droppers to bus

Tim
 

Usually drops are smaller wire than the main power bus. For instance, the main power bus on my layout is 12 AWG. The drops that are soldered to the rails are 22 AWG. I try to keep my drops less than 12 inches from the bus to where it's soldered to the rail.

Tim


Re: Droppers to bus

John DeSantis
 

Thanks Tim for your reply. Would you please elaborate on what  you mean by short. Do you mean the distance from the track to where the dropers are connected to each other (Point A) or the overall distance from the track to the bus (Point B).

John

On 03/18/2022 9:06 AM Tim <tarumph@...> wrote:


jdssr, As long as the drops are short that's fine.

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


Re: One reversing loop to support reversing in both directions off the mainline?

Don Vollrath
 

Tim’s relay solution will work also. But it does require that you isolate and re-wire the two turnout section as shown. Then you can dispense with the need of both/either AR controller. Just make sure you use relays to flip the polarity, rather than sliding contacts that will produce a slower noticeable interruption of power.

Either way the operator is responsible for correctly controlling the turnouts.

DonV


Re: Droppers to bus

Tim
 

jdssr, As long as the drops are short that's fine.

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


Droppers to bus

John DeSantis
 

Hi all. I.m a complete novice to dcc. My question is; on a layout with two separate loops, can you connect two droppers, from the outside rails together before conneccting them to the main bus? I have a diagram but I don't know how to upload it.


Re: One reversing loop to support reversing in both directions off the mainline?

Tim
 

This arrangement requires two reversing sections unless, as DonV mentioned, the distance between the wye switches is long enough to hold the entire train. Using two relays, one connected to each turnout, handles this quite well. I've put another picture in your folder.

w4dccqa@groups.io | Photo

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


Re: One reversing loop to support reversing in both directions off the mainline?

Don Vollrath
 

As long as the entire train will fit in the proposed section A-B and the back to back turnouts remain fixed polarity… just provide double rail isolating gaps at A and B and another AR controller for section A-B powered directly from the mains booster. No other changes required.

The fixed polarity back to back turnouts will separate the two AR sections with a long enough fixed polarity section so that they will operate independently of each other. PERIOD (see and ignore previous long winded discussions on this subject)

DonV


Re: One reversing loop to support reversing in both directions off the mainline?

wyantj01@...
 

Don
Thanks for your quick response. I had convinced myself that the proposed reversing section would not work.  I re-posted the photo with some additional identifiers in order to gain a better personal understanding of how this will work.  Assuming there is no phase change when a train enters the proposed section at point A, this section will definitely change phase at B.  If the train continues through point D, that reversing section may change phase.  The fact that a train will span both reversing sections is immaterial.
Please let me know if I have this right.
Thanks
Jeremy


Photo SharedReversingLoop3.jpg uploaded #photo-notice

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Re: Reverse Loop problem

Tom Anderson
 

Thanks Jim. 


On Mar 15, 2022, at 10:15 AM, Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:

Tom,

  Your layout wiring is fine - assuming no closed gaps for the reversing loop.
I'm sorry to say that the most likely source of the problem is the use of the PM42.
The PM42s were designed a -long- time ago and do not do well with 'modern'
DCC locos ... especially any with sound.  Or with a lighted passenger train.
  So even if the reverse loop was working correctly I'd be recommending you
use a PSX-AR to power that loop.  The power to the PSX-AR should be fed
directly from the track bus (i.e. "booster power") and not from the output of the
PM42.
  If it were me I'd also replace the PM42 entirely and replace it with a standard
PSX (or more if there are other power districts).
                                                                                               - Jim in the PNW

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Re: Reverse Loop problem

Tim
 

I would use a DPDT relay with a 12V coil powered by the switch machine contacts for this. Assuming that the two turnouts are pretty close together, I'd connect it to turnout 1 so that it energized when turnout 1 is thrown (lined for the loop). I don't recommend using the contacts directly because they are often very slow acting and of limited current capacity. You can get a relay rated for 10 A for less than $10.

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


Re: Reverse Loop problem

Jim Betz
 

Tom,

  Your layout wiring is fine - assuming no closed gaps for the reversing loop.
I'm sorry to say that the most likely source of the problem is the use of the PM42.
The PM42s were designed a -long- time ago and do not do well with 'modern'
DCC locos ... especially any with sound.  Or with a lighted passenger train.
  So even if the reverse loop was working correctly I'd be recommending you
use a PSX-AR to power that loop.  The power to the PSX-AR should be fed
directly from the track bus (i.e. "booster power") and not from the output of the
PM42.
  If it were me I'd also replace the PM42 entirely and replace it with a standard
PSX (or more if there are other power districts).
                                                                                               - Jim in the PNW


Reverse Loop problem

Tom Anderson
 

Good Morning,

 

          I have a reverse loop (picture uploaded) that is not working correctly.

 

          I am using a Digitrax PM42 with district 2 setup as a reversing loop.

 

          The train is traveling right to left on the diagram. If it attempts to enter the loop at Switch #2, the layout shorts out. If I attempt to enter the loop from Switch #1, the train proceeds normally and exits back out through Switch #2 normally.

 

          Not sure what I have wrong. Any help would be appreciated.

 

Tom Anderson

 

 

Tom Anderson

Business Information Systems

P.O. Box 160396

Boiling Springs, SC  29316

 

(864) 621-8607

 


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File /Reverse Loop.pdf uploaded #file-notice

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Re: One reversing loop to support reversing in both directions off the mainline?

Don Vollrath
 

After seeing your sketch… that will work fine providing your proposed new AR section is long enough to support the whole train. Easiest add-on with minimal changes.

There are other ways… including using 2 “throat controlled relays” to avoid using the AR units.

DonV

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