Date   

Re: Help with DCC wiring of kato unitrack!

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Whoops! I see that when I added the "How to wire this turnout"
feature to my website, I missed the Kato turnouts. Sorry about that.

I just updated the website. You should find the information you seek
there now. Go to http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_kato.htm

I strongly recommend soldered connections to the track. However,
given that there is so much plastic in the Unitrack, if your soldering
skills really are weak, you may do more harm than good. If you use
joiners with wires attached to them, you should be good for several
years IF THE JOINERS ARE TIGHT ON THE RAILS. Long term, you may start
developing problems. Therefore, you really should solder your
connections.

Allan


Help with DCC wiring of kato unitrack!

sugelle@sbcglobal.net <sugelle@...>
 

HELP!!! I am new to the hobby and I am currently building a dcc N
scale layout using KATO Unitrack. I am building the Manning Oaks
#4417 layout plan that I downloaded from KATOUSA.com under the section
for N scale layouts. The layout uses 6 left hand #6 swithces
(turnouts) as well as a double crossover. I read on this website the
articles on how to make the Unitrack #6 turnouts "DCC Friendly" by
removing the tab or wiper arm that powers the frogs and to do the same
with the Unitrack double crossover. I made theses modifications this
weekend but now I am totally confused on how to wire the layout??? I
already ran my bus wire under the layout but I have no clue on how and
where to properly wire the switches and double crossover as they
relate to the layout. Also, would it be O.K. to use the terminal
Unijoiners as feeders and solder the ends of them to the bus wires or
should I really solder feeders directly to the track? (My soldering
skills are weak). Since my skills and knowledge of the hobby are very
limited, please be specific as possible!


Re: Automatic Train Control

robert_scheffler
 

Jan,

No problem. I've added it to the solutions worth considering ;-)
Glad to hear it. We're pretty flexible for updates and features. The
firmware running now hasn't changed in several months. It's about due for a
update. If you have any features or functions that seem to be lacking,
please let me know.

Do your system feature slow starts and stops?
At the moment, it just sends a 'kick' to get the motor moving when running
at slow speed. Since it doesn't have any Back-EMF or way to detect what the
physical motor is doing, slow speed can be a bit tricky. It is really more
dependant on the mechanics of the trolley/loco. The Brill trolley shown in
my pictures is quite finicky at slow speeds. It has the factory motor. It
works very nice with a 'normal' motor, not the factory pancake in the Brill.
We could add a more flexible ramp or curve to get your motor stable at slow
speeds. This would take the form of 'settings' that you could 'tweak' for
your specific trolley, much the same as CV's in a mobile DCC decoder.

Your homepage say you're considering a DCC version.
Been considering it, but we have a much more aggressive plan for this that I
can't quite talk about yet, more like a universal throttle...

As we're using a Lenz system, using Loconet is a non-starter.
I understand and agree. I have NCE, Lenz, MRC, and Digitrax here, you are
right, committing to one is a non-starter for the others. Have a plan, but
still working on the solution.


I suppose that is about the limit for what we should talk about on-list, if
you have more questions or comments, best to send me off-list so I don't
offend anyone here. If anyone else has questions, please let me know!

Bob Scheffler
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.dcctester.com "Test all the data on your Rails!"


Re: Automatic Train Control

Jan Frelin <jan.frelin@...>
 

At 13:05 2005-07-01 -0600, Robert Scheffler wrote:

Not sure if you are interested in DC control. Keeping all the warnings Mark
has described about mixing DC and DCC on the track level in mind. This
system will only work with DC:
<http://www.pricom.com/Trains/TrainController.html>http://www.pricom.com/Trains/TrainController.html

It has up to 8 station sensors (for me Hall-Effect sensors) that simply
'close' when the Trolley is over them. You put a small magnet on the bottom
of your Trolley and the controller can start and stop at any station. It can
change position of up to 4 twin-coil switch machines, or 4 slow-motion
switch machines.

I have one setup on my layout with 4 switch tracks and 8 station sensors. It
drives from any point to any point using a scripting-like table of events.
You just say "Drive East at 40%", "Wait For Station A", "Stop for 5
seconds", "Throw Turnout 2", "Drive West at 50%", "Wait for Station B",
"Stop for 25 Seconds", etc... This would be considered a "ROUTE". You can
create many "ROUTES" and then build them up into a "SCHEDULE" so that the
movements are not just a "BUMP AND REVERSE" type of controller.

Having an automatic line is actually pretty cool because it really does run
itself. It doesn't use a computer once you have the "ROUTES" set. When you
power it on, it just starts the "SCHEDULE" you have stored. The programming
of the "ROUTES" is done with a PC, but after that, no PC needed.


This is my product, so sorry for the plug, since you didn't get any better
answers, I though you might appreciate this.
No problem. I've added it to the solutions worth considering ;-) Do your
system feature slow starts and stops?

Your homepage say you're considering a DCC version. As we're using a Lenz
system, using Loconet is a non-starter.

/Jan


Re: Automatic Train Control

robert_scheffler
 

Not sure if you are interested in DC control. Keeping all the warnings Mark
has described about mixing DC and DCC on the track level in mind. This
system will only work with DC:
http://www.pricom.com/Trains/TrainController.html

It has up to 8 station sensors (for me Hall-Effect sensors) that simply
'close' when the Trolley is over them. You put a small magnet on the bottom
of your Trolley and the controller can start and stop at any station. It can
change position of up to 4 twin-coil switch machines, or 4 slow-motion
switch machines.

I have one setup on my layout with 4 switch tracks and 8 station sensors. It
drives from any point to any point using a scripting-like table of events.
You just say "Drive East at 40%", "Wait For Station A", "Stop for 5
seconds", "Throw Turnout 2", "Drive West at 50%", "Wait for Station B",
"Stop for 25 Seconds", etc... This would be considered a "ROUTE". You can
create many "ROUTES" and then build them up into a "SCHEDULE" so that the
movements are not just a "BUMP AND REVERSE" type of controller.

Having an automatic line is actually pretty cool because it really does run
itself. It doesn't use a computer once you have the "ROUTES" set. When you
power it on, it just starts the "SCHEDULE" you have stored. The programming
of the "ROUTES" is done with a PC, but after that, no PC needed.


This is my product, so sorry for the plug, since you didn't get any better
answers, I though you might appreciate this.

Bob Scheffler
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PRICOM Design
www.pricom.com


Re: Automatic Train Control

Jan Frelin <jan.frelin@...>
 

At 11:18 2005-07-01 -0700, Mark Gurries wrote:

Friends,

My club has a requirement for a tram that just goes back and forth
between it's terminal track and staging/storage. We want this to be
automatically controled. There are several kits for doing just this on
the market, but all I have found are DC based. As this track is
connected with the general layout, we would prefer a DCC solution, but
this seems to require a computer, a computer interface, and track
detectors.

My question is: Is there a simpler solution with DCC? What's the
cheapest DCC-based solution (without building your own hardware or
sofware)?
Nothing is simpler or more cost effective than a DC solution.

DCC has layout automation software for DCC.

<http://www.freiwald.com/>http://www.freiwald.com/

is an example of such software.

But you will need a computer, a computer interface to the DCC system,
sensors in the track (DC will need that too) and do some programming.

Definitely more expensive and requires a computer running to make it
happen. The DC solution would be hands off easy to setup and forget.
That's what I suspected, thanks for confirming.


Some thoughts...

Generally mixing DC and DCC is not recommended by anyone. I can result
in destruction of a booster, DC throttle or both if both power sources
connect to each other. (DCC is a form of AC power) If you must run DC,
the recommendation is that one have a master switch that toggle the
whole layout between DC or DCC but NEVER both at the same time. Many
layouts have done this successfully. There was an article about how one
club did it in MR magazine.

If you MUST have DC and DCC present, there are some recommended rules.

1) Isolate at least a 12: section of track the goes between the DC power
section of the layout and the DCC powered portion of the layout. A no
mans land with not power. Using a momentary center off switch, you
would toggle the power of the dead section of track to DC or DCC
depending on which side of the dead section of track you need to get
power from. The key is momentary switch. A standard toggle will no be
safe for you will forget to turn it off.
That solution is something like what I had in mind. We don't want any
rolling stock straying into the way of the automatic tram, anyway.

Thanks for a comprehensive answer.

Yours,
Jan


Re: Automatic Train Control

Mark Gurries
 

Friends,

My club has a requirement for a tram that just goes back and forth
between it's terminal track and staging/storage. We want this to be
automatically controled. There are several kits for doing just this on
the market, but all I have found are DC based. As this track is
connected with the general layout, we would prefer a DCC solution, but
this seems to require a computer, a computer interface, and track
detectors.

My question is: Is there a simpler solution with DCC? What's the
cheapest DCC-based solution (without building your own hardware or
sofware)?
Nothing is simpler or more cost effective than a DC solution.

DCC has layout automation software for DCC.

http://www.freiwald.com/

is an example of such software.

But you will need a computer, a computer interface to the DCC system,
sensors in the track (DC will need that too) and do some programming.

Definitely more expensive and requires a computer running to make it
happen. The DC solution would be hands off easy to setup and forget.

Some thoughts...

Generally mixing DC and DCC is not recommended by anyone. I can result
in destruction of a booster, DC throttle or both if both power sources
connect to each other. (DCC is a form of AC power) If you must run DC,
the recommendation is that one have a master switch that toggle the
whole layout between DC or DCC but NEVER both at the same time. Many
layouts have done this successfully. There was an article about how one
club did it in MR magazine.

If you MUST have DC and DCC present, there are some recommended rules.

1) Isolate at least a 12: section of track the goes between the DC power
section of the layout and the DCC powered portion of the layout. A no
mans land with not power. Using a momentary center off switch, you
would toggle the power of the dead section of track to DC or DCC
depending on which side of the dead section of track you need to get
power from. The key is momentary switch. A standard toggle will no be
safe for you will forget to turn it off.

2) Another option to isolate the approach track from the DCC portion of
the layout and power it through a Lenz LT100.

http://www.lenz.com/products/modules/index.htm

The LT100 is connected to your DC power pack output. It monitors for
signs of DCC and will instantly disconnect the DC power pack from the
track protecting both system.

I should say that running a locomotive from DC section of track to a DCC
section of track can lead to a runaway locomotive. Most decoder make a
decision on first power up to run in DCC or DC mode. As long as power
is maintained, that decision remains true. So if the decoder see DCC
power after while it has been running in DC mode, the decoder will not
recognize the DCC and assume the DCC is nothing more than full throttle
DC power and vrooom.....

The reverse DCC to DC is less predictable. The engine may simple stop
and not run OR switch to DC mode with a very erratic reaction in the
process.

Part of the randomness to all this is the nature of an engine rolling on
track with the corresponding momentary loss of power. Dirt, oxidation,
clean wheel, number of wheel pickups and other such factor play into the
experience.


Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Linear Technology
Power Supply & Battery Charger Applications Engineer/Manager
---------------------------------------------------------
Model Railroad Club and NMRA DCC presentations are at:
http://www.siliconvalleylines.com/index.html
--------------------------------------------------------
Audio Enthusiast (Love SAE equipment)
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/gurriesm/
----------------------------------------------------------


Automatic Train Control

Jan Frelin <jan.frelin@...>
 

Friends,

My club has a requirement for a tram that just goes back and forth
between it's terminal track and staging/storage. We want this to be
automatically controled. There are several kits for doing just this on
the market, but all I have found are DC based. As this track is
connected with the general layout, we would prefer a DCC solution, but
this seems to require a computer, a computer interface, and track
detectors.

My question is: Is there a simpler solution with DCC? What's the
cheapest DCC-based solution (without building your own hardware or
sofware)?


Fw: Welcome to WiringForDCC

Jerry Silver <jsilver9@...>
 

Tom,
Well, I signed up for this forum and posted a message. Here are the links.......
Jerry

----- Original Message -----
From: "WiringForDCC Moderator" <WiringForDCC-owner@yahoogroups.com>
To: <jsilver9@tampabay.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:58 AM
Subject: Welcome to WiringForDCC



Hello,

Welcome to the WiringForDCC_Q&A_Forum group at Yahoo! Groups, a
free, easy-to-use email group service. Please
take a moment to review this message.

This forum is dedicated to answering your questions about wiring your model trains for Digital Command Control. This forum is associated with the Wiring For DCC website, http://www.WiringForDCC.com. Please keep your questions on the topic of DCC. If you feel that you would like to help others, you are invited to join this forum.

Please limit postings to this group to questions and answers pertaining wiring your layout and trains for DCC.

To learn more about the WiringForDCC_Q&A_Forum group, please visit
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To start sending messages to members of this group, simply
send email to
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Regards,

Allan Gartner
Moderator, WiringForDCC_Q&A_Forum
www.WiringForDCC.com



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Re: '3-rail' diagram?

jsilver6307 <jsilver9@...>
 

--- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, "wirefordcc"
<wire4dcc_admin@c...> wrote:
Jerry,

If you want to show us a drawing, you need to post it to the file
area. Drawings attached to emails are removed by Yahoo.

I may be able to answer your question without seeing it. You are
correct, 3-rail is easy because the outside rails are common. Three
rail is particularly advantagous with reverse loops. Unlike 2 rail,
you don't have to do anything special for 3-rail.

Allan
Sorry, Allan - new to this also. I've posted the diagram to
the 'files' section. I's probably one of your drawing that I modified.
The layout we're working on will be large (78' by 40') and require
several power districts. Great way to start the hobby!
Jerry


Re: '3-rail' diagram?

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Jerry,

I just viewed the drawing you uploaded. Yes, you have modified it
correctly.

Allan


New file uploaded to WiringForDCC

WiringForDCC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the WiringForDCC
group.

File : /3-rail power diagram.jpg
Uploaded by : jsilver6307 <jsilver9@tampabay.rr.com>
Description : 3-rail diagram?

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/files/3-rail%20power%20diagram.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

jsilver6307 <jsilver9@tampabay.rr.com>


Re: '3-rail' diagram?

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Jerry,

If you want to show us a drawing, you need to post it to the file
area. Drawings attached to emails are removed by Yahoo.

I may be able to answer your question without seeing it. You are
correct, 3-rail is easy because the outside rails are common. Three
rail is particularly advantagous with reverse loops. Unlike 2 rail,
you don't have to do anything special for 3-rail.

Allan


'3-rail' diagram?

Jerry Silver <jsilver9@...>
 

Does the attached/modified 2-rail drawing represent DCC wiring for 'O' gage (3-rail)? I'm new to model railroading and have chosen to use 3-rail 'O' as my base platform. I've not been able to find much information (that I can interpret as 3-rail information) on wiring that is specific to 3-rail. I thought 3-rail would be easy because the outside rails are common and the inside rail is signal. Maybe I'm wrong!!
Advice/council appreciated - THANKS!


Re: wiring a block

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Please see the section for beginners regarding blocks on the Wiring
For DCC website.

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/intro2dcc.htm#a16

Allan


Re: Peco code 75 power routing

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Nobby,

The easiest thing to do is outlined in the Wiring For DCC website at:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm#a14

This section of the website is for power routing frogs when you don't
have any kind of switch machine under the layout.

It actually operates off the throwbar. So if you are using Peco
turnouts and are flipping them with your fingertip, this approach
should still work. The only problem you might run into is if the
spring in the micro switch is stronger than the Peco spring. If using
ground throws, this approach works fine.

Allan


Peco code 75 power routing

Nobby Clarke <nobbyclarke2@...>
 

Hi

new to the group and DCC I am in the middle of building a new layout
with Peco code 75 my problem is I am not using any point motors on any
of my switiches I can not work out how to power route the frog as
everything I read is all about motors which I am not using! how do I
power route under the layout.

Nobby


Re: wiring a block

mike thurston <zekda99@...>
 

I've found the easiest way to insulate track is to use
those white plastic insulators you can buy from local
hobby stores. I use 3 pieces of store bought straight
track for each block minimum. 1st hooks up to flex
track on one end then the insulators (x2 required for
dcc) then on the end of the next i use store bought
terminal wires on both then the last one can easily
hook back up to flex track. the reason this is the
simplist is that there are no gaps left from cutting
track pieces. The worst place you can put insulators
is on curves if you are cutting track.

For DCC both rails have to be insulated and both have
to have their own power..just make sure you don't
cross the wires anywhere.. easiest way is to start
from one side of the rail and follow that rail all
around the layout and marking it by either putting a
pin on that side or even a bright colored mark....then
do the same with the other and you shouldn't have any
problems.

mt
--- "Louis A. Angelucci" <loua2000_99@yahoo.com>
wrote:


---------------------------------
I have read teh big red book on dcc and I am confused
about how to
actually wire a block on my N scael layout. I intend
to install a
dgitrax DCC system. How long is a block in terms of
track length? What
is typical?

Do you actually cut the track and install insulators?
do you cut both
tracks? In an existent layout how is a block
installed? How do you
intall the insulators? How do you prevent damage to
the track where
the installation is made?

I know this is probably basic information but it is
causing me anxiety
with my layout. Whenever I cut track that track
section is the cause
of derailment. This is my concern.

please let me know

thank you




http://www.WiringForDCC.com



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wiring a block

Louis A. Angelucci <loua2000_99@...>
 

I have read teh big red book on dcc and I am confused about how to
actually wire a block on my N scael layout. I intend to install a
dgitrax DCC system. How long is a block in terms of track length? What
is typical?

Do you actually cut the track and install insulators? do you cut both
tracks? In an existent layout how is a block installed? How do you
intall the insulators? How do you prevent damage to the track where
the installation is made?

I know this is probably basic information but it is causing me anxiety
with my layout. Whenever I cut track that track section is the cause
of derailment. This is my concern.

please let me know

thank you


Proto Power West

jwbardzil <jwbardzil@...>
 

I have numerous Proto Power West Chassis and motors for Athern
shells.
I want to wire these for DCC. I do not know how to do this because
the wiring of these is different than most other engines. Can you
help me?

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