Date   

Re: DCC Bus reversing question

Don Vollrath
 

However to answer the original question…
You SHOULD be able to wire up an auto-reverser from DCC mains (or use an auto-reversing booster) to feed several PSX (or other brand) electronic circuit breakers that feed several CB protected districts inside a common reversing loop/section. Just make sure each of the circuit breakers react faster than the auto-reversing controller and that there is an initial section of track at both sides of the single AR loops district entrance wired before any CB protected track.
However I’m not sure you would want to do that as the troublesome areas will be at the turnouts and it sounds like costly non-effective overkill.

DonV


Re: Building a yard ladder -Slightly Off-Topic?

Scott H. Haycock
 

Prototype yard throats, as much as possible, were designed so all the switch stands were on the same side of the lead for personnel safety. The switcher would be 'faced' so that the engineer could see the ground crew operating the switch stands. 

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 08/08/2021 4:07 PM ROBERT HULTMAN <hultman@...> wrote:
 
 
 
Assuming the diverging tracks from the ladder turnouts run parallel to each other, the amount of straight track between one turnout's frog & the subsequent turnout's point rails would depend on the distance between track centers.  In the US, back in the earlier days, maybe 40s-50s, the yard tracks were probably 13' on center, more modern yard design probably widens out the track center-to-center distance more than 13'.
 
Bob Hultman in Brentwood TN
 
On Sunday, August 8, 2021, 01:33:04 PM CDT, <alynmar@...> wrote:
 
When building a yard ladder is it acceptable to place your turnouts end to end or should there be some track in between the turnouts, if so what would the recommended track length be in OO scale?     Thank you for any suggestions.

Alan


Re: Bachman DCC EZ track turnouts

Joseph A. Correro, Jr. <joedeyejr@...>
 

Thank you, Glenn!




"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away!"


On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 5:58 PM Glenn <ghazel@...> wrote:
I don't think its possible. I think Bachmann turnouts draw power from the track.
-----Original Message-----
From: <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Sent: Aug 8, 2021 5:10 PM
To: <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Subject: [w4dccqa] Bachman DCC EZ track turnouts

I couldn't get anything from Bachmann regarding how to wire its DCC Onboard turnouts to my bus. Can anyone help me? Thank you!








Re: DCC Bus reversing question

Jim Betz
 

Blair/Don ... and all,

  You don't need to re-invent the wheel.  DCC works just fine as designed.  DCC wiring - if
you follow Gartner's recommendations - is also easy and fool proof (if you follow them
correctly).  Specific responses:

  1) No you don't need to swap railsync wires - and you shouldn't do so.
  2) Yes, you can use some kind of physical switch to "rewire" reversing
       sections.  Most guys like the automated aspect of a Reversing DCC
       circuit breaker.
  3) The best (in my opinion) DCC circuit breakers are the PSX series.  They
       work and work well.  They were designed with sound in mind.  They are
       electronic (which makes them fast).  Yes, they cost a bit more than 
       other brands of DCC circuit breaker - yes, they are worth it.
  4) A reversing section should not be up against another reversing section if
      you are using DCC circuit breakers.  They end up trying to out guess each
      other - and that competition usually goes on forever.  You can, with some
      breakers, set a different trip speed to prevent this ... but it is better to not
      have two reversing sections next to each other.  This is almost always
      possible thru careful selection of where your breaker boundaries are.
  5) A reversing section should be "longer than the longest train you will
      ever run thru it".  It does not have to be "the entire loop" - but most guys
      will set it up that way and it's usually easier.  Another way to say this one
      is "you don't want both ends of the train - or two trains at once - crossing
      the reversing section".  Again, the breaker gets confused and, in this case,
      ends up competing with itself.

  Reversing breakers work like this:

  a) Situation normal.
  b) A short occurs.
  c) The breaker -temporarily- tries reversing the polarity of the reversing
      section.
  d) If that works it leaves it alone and the train continues to run.
  e) If it didn't work then you have an "actual short" and the breaker goes
      into "there's a short" status.
  f) Most modern DCC circuit breakers also have an automated Retry.
     They will wait a second or two and then retest to see if the short is
     still there - this is what allows you to throw the switch and "clear the
     short".

  On my layout I have just one reversing section - it is the huge loop in
staging - the staging is 5 tracks wide and 3 trains long.  All trains enter
(and exit) staging thru just one track that goes to a switch.  All of the
track past that switch is both Staging and the reversing loop.  I have it
wired with just one circuit breaker.  If it ends up that there are too many
trains in staging (amp draw too high) I will cut the power to some of the
tracks (the ones that the turnouts make "unavailable".
                                                                                                - Jim

  


Building a yard ladder -Slightly Off-Topic?

ROBERT HULTMAN
 

Assuming the diverging tracks from the ladder turnouts run parallel to each other, the amount of straight track between one turnout's frog & the subsequent turnout's point rails would depend on the distance between track centers.  In the US, back in the earlier days, maybe 40s-50s, the yard tracks were probably 13' on center, more modern yard design probably widens out the track center-to-center distance more than 13'.

Bob Hultman in Brentwood TN

On Sunday, August 8, 2021, 01:33:04 PM CDT, <alynmar@...> wrote:

When building a yard ladder is it acceptable to place your turnouts end to end or should there be some track in between the turnouts, if so what would the recommended track length be in OO scale?     Thank you for any suggestions.

Alan


Re: T-25 Wire Staplers

Glenn
 

Hold the stapler so the bottom rests flat on the wire and not on an angle. That way the hammer of the stapler will not touch the wires.

-----Original Message-----
From: <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Sent: Aug 8, 2021 4:47 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] T-25 Wire Staplers


 
Ken,
If you lighten the pressure on the stapler it will penetrate less. It takes very little practice and you can test with a piece of scrap. If you want a piece of plastic between, put a piece of tape on the wire.
jd
 
On Sunday, August 8, 2021, 12:26:58 PM EDT, Ken Harstine <kharstin@...> wrote:
 
 
I am not seeing any T-25 staples with plastic to prevent shorting if the metal breaks through the insulation.  As long as only one wire is run under them it is not a problem but it seems like it is asking for a problem if two wires run under one staple.  Plastic insulation deforms under pressure and it seems like it would might break through the insulation on occasion and with enough time.

Regards,
Ken Harstine

 


Re: Bachman DCC EZ track turnouts

Glenn
 

I don't think its possible. I think Bachmann turnouts draw power from the track.

-----Original Message-----
From: <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Sent: Aug 8, 2021 5:10 PM
To: <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Subject: [w4dccqa] Bachman DCC EZ track turnouts

I couldn't get anything from Bachmann regarding how to wire its DCC Onboard turnouts to my bus. Can anyone help me? Thank you!


Re: DCC Bus reversing question

Blair
 

That's a good point, Don.  Instead of a >10A
DPDT to reverse the booster outputs, I could swap the Railsync signal wires.  If I dedicate a booster to each yard that would work, if I find a small solid state DPDT.
Hmm.  Makes me want to resurrect my DCS100 and DB150 for staging and put my 8A booster elsewhere.

Sent from his Galaxy



Re: Building a yard ladder

Blair
 

I have found the pinwheel style of ladder to be very effective and compact while also being forgiving in clearances.
With Peco C100, 7 turnouts give you 84 degrees curvature at the throat of an 8-track staging yard very nicely.


Sent from his Galaxy



Re: Building a yard ladder

Blair
 

If using PECO C100, they told me they're designed to give you 2" spacing if laid nose-to-tail.  If you want wider spacing, you can easily calculate a length based on the diverging angle(12*) and the desired additional length.
Blair



Sent from his Galaxy



Bachman DCC EZ track turnouts

Joseph A. Correro, Jr. <joedeyejr@...>
 

I couldn't get anything from Bachmann regarding how to wire its DCC Onboard turnouts to my bus. Can anyone help me? Thank you!


Re: T-25 Wire Staplers

john
 

Ken,
If you lighten the pressure on the stapler it will penetrate less. It takes very little practice and you can test with a piece of scrap. If you want a piece of plastic between, put a piece of tape on the wire.
jd

On Sunday, August 8, 2021, 12:26:58 PM EDT, Ken Harstine <kharstin@...> wrote:


I am not seeing any T-25 staples with plastic to prevent shorting if the metal breaks through the insulation.  As long as only one wire is run under them it is not a problem but it seems like it is asking for a problem if two wires run under one staple.  Plastic insulation deforms under pressure and it seems like it would might break through the insulation on occasion and with enough time.

Regards,
Ken Harstine


Re: DCC Bus reversing question

Don Weigt
 

I've only just begun to use auto reversing, and had no problems so far on my modest applications. But, the thought has occurred to be that boosters should have an external phase control. In cases like Blair's, the reversing could be controlled by some external event and not need to use auto reverse or an external switch or relay of any kind.

I'm surprised that it isn't a standard booster feature. It's simple enough to invert the driving signal from the command station to reverse the output phase. One XOR logic gate will do it... I may investigate adding that to my EasyDCC dual boosters.

Don Weigt
Connecticut

--
Don Weigt
Connecticut


Re: Building a yard ladder

Scott H. Haycock
 

The key measurement for laying out yard tracks is center-to-center spacing. in HO this is usually 2'' on straight track. Lay it out. Most HO turnouts have to be shortened for ladders. The NMRA website will have their standards somewhere and they will have this info for OO scale.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 08/08/2021 12:33 PM alynmar@... wrote:
 
 
When building a yard ladder is it acceptable to place your turnouts end to end or should there be some track in between the turnouts, if so what would the recommended track length be in OO scale?     Thank you for any suggestions.

Alan


Building a yard ladder

alynmar@...
 

When building a yard ladder is it acceptable to place your turnouts end to end or should there be some track in between the turnouts, if so what would the recommended track length be in OO scale?     Thank you for any suggestions.

Alan


Re: DCC Bus reversing question

Allan AE2V
 

Hi Blair,

I'll wait until you post your diagram.  You are right, the rule about avoiding adjacent reversing units is a good one.

Allan


Re: T-25 Wire Staplers

 

I am not seeing any T-25 staples with plastic to prevent shorting if the metal breaks through the insulation.  As long as only one wire is run under them it is not a problem but it seems like it is asking for a problem if two wires run under one staple.  Plastic insulation deforms under pressure and it seems like it would might break through the insulation on occasion and with enough time.

Regards,
Ken Harstine


Re: DCC Bus reversing question

Blair
 

Allan

My problem is a bit more complicated.   I think I'll generate a picture and post it later, it will explain things better.  Essentially, if an area served by 3 or 4 PSX breakers must all be either normal or reversed, why would you do it incrementally with several PSX-AR units, particularly as they are electrically adjacent and therefore violate the "no AR sections adjacent" rule previously discussed many times?  I realize that rule may or may not apply to PSX-AR units, but it's still a good practice.

Blair


On 2021-08-08 8:54, wirefordcc wrote:
Hi Blair,

For people that have some form of electronic circuit breakers and need reversing, think about products like the PSX-AR that has both in one unit.  The obvious advantage is that they are designed to work together.  They are all solid state, too, so you don't have the relay switching problem.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


Re: DCC Bus reversing question

Allan AE2V
 

Hi Blair,

For people that have some form of electronic circuit breakers and need reversing, think about products like the PSX-AR that has both in one unit.  The obvious advantage is that they are designed to work together.  They are all solid state, too, so you don't have the relay switching problem.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


Re: PSX Circuit Breaker Issue

Swanny
 

Sorry for the tardy reply, but I must report that I've seen this problem for quite some time on my RR, which includes about 18 PSX and 4 PSXAR devices.  Upon reporting it to Tony's and asking for a possible solution, I was told in an email response that this behavior is considered normal.  Not what I wanted or expected to hear, given the reason for using these devices!
John

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