Date   

Re: Twisted bus

Jim Betz
 

Bill,
  Your bus wires should -either- be twisted or well separated.  The
worst thing you can do is to tape them together without twisting them.

  What happens is that the wires will create an RF signal that interferes
with the DCC signal (causes noise).  Interference usually shows up as
"I don't have my train - wait, now I have it back (after it has moved a
few feet) - now I don't have it again."  "Don't have" is when the train
does not respond to changes in the throttle - such as you blow the
horn or change speed and the train doesn't respond or has a long
delay.

  There can be other things that will interfere with the connection
between the cab(s) and the train(s).  What DCC system?  How
old is it?  Have you always had this problem or is it new?  Does
plugging in the cab fix it?  Always or only usually or only in some
parts of the layout?

  If you are not having trouble - just leave well enough alone.  If you
are having trouble you might consider attempting to separate them
as far as they can be made and see if that helps.

  If separating the bus wires doesn't work the regrettable fix is to
get them twisted.  Doing that -can- be a big job or it can be a
fairly easy job.  Have you heard of/seen the Wago 221 connectors?

  As I said before - there are other symptoms/causes.  Provide the
answers to the questions above and we can sort out what you 
should do next (if you are having trouble).  The most important
thing you can do for us now is to tell us "why you think you want
to change anything?" -and- provide a fairly accurate description of
the problems you are having (where they occur, what fixes them,
etc.).
                                                                                  - Jim


Re: Scotchlok bus punctures

Blair
 

But if you look at the nature of the opening, the exposed conductor is at the bottom of a canyon.  DCC voltages will not leap that canyon to conduct to another potential; you'd need to tape both conductors together, with the holes in both conductors directly adjacent, then fill the interior of the space with salt water to effect any significant current.

I wouldn't worry too much about puncture holes like that, unless your environment is wet, or you're running 115 VAC through the conductor; that's a whole different world.

Blair

On 2021-08-03 11:50, Steve Hubbard via groups.io wrote:

Not as long as they are openings are unable to touch another conductor.  I would put some liquid tape on them

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Bill Wilken
Sent: Tuesday, August 3, 2021 9:23 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] Scotchlok bus punctures

 

Recently, I had to remove several track feeders that were connected to

my layout's bus with scotchlok connectors. Removing the scotchlok

connectors, however, inevitably results in open punctures of the bus's

plastic coating.  Will have that have any consequences for DCC?

 

Bill Wilken

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Scotchlok bus punctures

Blair
 

Bill

Not electrically, have no fear.  However, practically, if you're in a wet environment(Scotchlok connectors are often used in automotive, trailers, etc.), those holes could admit moisture, which could lead to corrosion over time.  In a household environment, I can't imagine it being a problem, unless you're like my neighbour who has a seasonal stream through his basement because it was built on bedrock and the foundation-to-rock seal has deteriorated.

Blair

On 2021-08-03 9:23, Bill Wilken wrote:
Recently, I had to remove several track feeders that were connected to
my layout's bus with scotchlok connectors. Removing the scotchlok
connectors, however, inevitably results in open punctures of the bus's
plastic coating. Will have that have any consequences for DCC?

Bill Wilken








Re: Scotchlok bus punctures

Steve Hubbard
 

Not as long as they are openings are unable to touch another conductor.  I would put some liquid tape on them

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Bill Wilken
Sent: Tuesday, August 3, 2021 9:23 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] Scotchlok bus punctures

 

Recently, I had to remove several track feeders that were connected to

my layout's bus with scotchlok connectors. Removing the scotchlok

connectors, however, inevitably results in open punctures of the bus's

plastic coating.  Will have that have any consequences for DCC?

 

Bill Wilken

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Scotchlok bus punctures

Bill Wilken
 

Recently, I had to remove several track feeders that were connected to
my layout's bus with scotchlok connectors. Removing the scotchlok
connectors, however, inevitably results in open punctures of the bus's
plastic coating. Will have that have any consequences for DCC?

Bill Wilken


Twisted bus

Bill Wilken
 

I did not twist my power bus when I installed it, but the two wires for
the most part are fairly close together and easily could be taped
together. While I suspect that this would have the same effect as
twisting the two wires together, I would appreciate hearing whether I
am correct.

Bill Wilken


adding Dallee sound to a Digitrax DH465

robf06
 

I have an AF locomotive that I picked up a few years ago that has a Dallee Hi Line Sound card in it. I recently acquired a Digitrax DH465 converter.
I was wondering if anyone has tried to marry the two together or if it can even be done?
--
Rob Fuhst
Grand Haven, MI


Re: Correct DCC Voltage

Keith Elrod
 

I use the Digikeijs system (command station & boosters). It does a fantastic job of keeping voltage regulated. No matter where I test on my layout I get 15.1 volts and all locos run with no problem.


Re: Wiring a Turntable for DCC

Allan AE2V
 

Dan,

I believe that dual Frog Juicer has a jumper that you need to put in place that gets the two halves of the dual Frog Juicer to work together.  I know the hex Juicers are like that.  You need the jumper installed.

All Frog Juicers have an red/green LED to give you an indication of polarity.  If these aren't changing when the loco goes onto the bridge, it isn't working.  

 

it goes without saying, but the turntable table bridge needs to be connected to the two outputs of the Frog Juicers.  (This mistake has been made many times.)

Allan Gartner
Wiring For DCC


Wiring a Turntable for DCC

dan.b.atkinson@...
 

I asked this on another topic posting earlier but am still having problems. I am using NCE as my system and have a dual frog juicer connected to my bridge track. My trains will run onto and off the turntable when the power wires from the bus are one way and when I reverse them the trains will not run on or off the turntable - this seems to indicate that the AR is not working properly. Does anyone have any suggestion? The turntable ring is powered and I do have an NCC CP6 circuit protector wired in to my booster.

Thanks
Dan Atkinson


Re: Correct DCC Voltage

thomasmclae
 

Several things can cause the start and stop.

Dirty track is the most obvious, especially if Loks stop at the same spot every time!

DC confusion detection is also common on some layouts. In CV29 (or main page in JMRI) turn off DC running. 
Assume 4 pages of technical jargon, but the decoder is tricked into think it is running on DC, stops, then thinks it is DCC and starts. Starting happening at the club after we updated the DCC system.

CV11 timeout. Set this to a high number or 0. (Another page of jargon here) Decoder does not hear from DCC system within timeout limit, stops, hears from system, starts. 
The purpose of this is to prevent runaways, which you could have if a booster lost signal from the main DCC system, and you loose control on that block. 

The last common thing is having more than one throttle with the same Lok selected. They fight of which has control.

The above covers about 90% of issues on the club layout. 

Thomas
DeSoto, TX


Re: Correct DCC Voltage

Michael Munley
 

Zero chance you damaged the locomotives.  Start by cleaning your wheels on your locomotives.  I use clipper oil but Isopropyl alcohol will work too.  Put it on a paper towel and run the locomotives at full speed while you hold them over the paper towel.  Let the wheels spin.  This should clean off the wheels.  If that makes them run better, then turn to cleaning your track.  Many youtube videos exist on this subject.



-----Original Message-----
From: Robert J. Richter <rjr@...>
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jul 3, 2021 2:06 pm
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Correct DCC Voltage

That’s why many of us use “Keep alives” so that we can overcome bad conductivity i.e. “Dirty Track”
 
Robert J. Richter
283 Elm Street
North Reading, MA 01864
 
From: w4dccqa@groups.io [mailto:w4dccqa@groups.io] On Behalf Of D B
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 1:53 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Correct DCC Voltage
 
Try cleaning the contacts (wheels)on your locos and the track.  Sounds like poor electric continuity.  Then check your feeder connections and rail connections if using those for electricity supply to track segments.  
Bill D. 
N&W Steam Only


On Jul 3, 2021, at 1:33 PM, tlm1945 via groups.io <tlm1945@...> wrote:
     What is the preferred or correct DCC voltage?

     I'm new to DCC. i started with the NCE Powercab and have recently upgraded to the SB5 booster. On the power supply for the booster there is a switch where you can select 12v or 13.6 volts. Because the power supply for the Powercab is listed as 13.6 volts output, I selected 13.6 for the SB5. I have 13.6 DCC volts on my track and the locomotives have been running fine. 

     KATO states on their locomotive boxes to not use more that 12 volts. Is 13.6 a danger? I would agree that using 20 volts or so could be damaging, but is 1.6 volts too much?

     The reason I'm asking is that recently several of my locomotives [ KATO, Bachman and BLI] have started to run intermittently. The BLI's actually pulled the voltage down to 10.6 volts. Two new KATO F3 units that I recently installed two NCE decoders in have started to act up. They run and stop and run again. 

     The reason for giving all of this information is it possible that the 13.6 volts has damaged the motors or circuit boards causing the abnormal operating?

     Thank you for any advice, comments, or suggestions. This is one of many questions that I have, but I have to start somewhere. There are no individuals or clubs in my area that I know of that can help me. Everything I have learned or done has been by manufacturers instruction, trial and error, or reliable persons on Utube.

    Thank you....


Re: Correct DCC Voltage

Glenn
 

The intermittent running on A locomotive a sign of dirty wheels. f it occurs on several locomotives in one area try cleaning the track and check wired connections and rail joints.

 

The voltage drop is an indication of a partial short. Check the locomotives for loose wiring that maybe contacting the opposite polarity. If this occurs with several locomotives there maybe a manufacturing flaw.

 

Check the wiring of the decoders, not just the motor wire. I had that problem in my lighting. The short caused the decoder to over heat and shut down. When it cooled, service was restored for a bit.

 

Glenn

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Sent: Jul 3, 2021 2:06 PM
To: <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Correct DCC Voltage


That’s why many of us use “Keep alives” so that we can overcome bad conductivity i.e. “Dirty Track”

 

Robert J. Richter

283 Elm Street

North Reading, MA 01864

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io [mailto:w4dccqa@groups.io] On Behalf Of D B
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 1:53 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Correct DCC Voltage

 

Try cleaning the contacts (wheels)on your locos and the track.  Sounds like poor electric continuity.  Then check your feeder connections and rail connections if using those for electricity supply to track segments.  

Bill D. 

N&W Steam Only



On Jul 3, 2021, at 1:33 PM, tlm1945 via groups.io <tlm1945@...> wrote:

     What is the preferred or correct DCC voltage?

     I'm new to DCC. i started with the NCE Powercab and have recently upgraded to the SB5 booster. On the power supply for the booster there is a switch where you can select 12v or 13.6 volts. Because the power supply for the Powercab is listed as 13.6 volts output, I selected 13.6 for the SB5. I have 13.6 DCC volts on my track and the locomotives have been running fine. 

     KATO states on their locomotive boxes to not use more that 12 volts. Is 13.6 a danger? I would agree that using 20 volts or so could be damaging, but is 1.6 volts too much?

     The reason I'm asking is that recently several of my locomotives [ KATO, Bachman and BLI] have started to run intermittently. The BLI's actually pulled the voltage down to 10.6 volts. Two new KATO F3 units that I recently installed two NCE decoders in have started to act up. They run and stop and run again. 

     The reason for giving all of this information is it possible that the 13.6 volts has damaged the motors or circuit boards causing the abnormal operating?

     Thank you for any advice, comments, or suggestions. This is one of many questions that I have, but I have to start somewhere. There are no individuals or clubs in my area that I know of that can help me. Everything I have learned or done has been by manufacturers instruction, trial and error, or reliable persons on Utube.

    Thank you....

 

 


Re: Correct DCC Voltage

Allan AE2V
 

The motor hooked up to a DCC decoder does not see the track voltage.  So if you have 13.6 for your track voltage, you are fine.

If too much voltage was a problem, you would have fried something and would not see stuttering.

Keep alives are good, but sooner or later, you will need to clean your track.  So now is a good time to start.

Stuttering or erratic operation can be caused by a corrupted DCC signal.  If you layout is large, you may find that twisting your track bus and installing RC filters at the bus ends can help.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


Re: Correct DCC Voltage

Robert J. Richter
 

That’s why many of us use “Keep alives” so that we can overcome bad conductivity i.e. “Dirty Track”

 

Robert J. Richter

283 Elm Street

North Reading, MA 01864

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io [mailto:w4dccqa@groups.io] On Behalf Of D B
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 1:53 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Correct DCC Voltage

 

Try cleaning the contacts (wheels)on your locos and the track.  Sounds like poor electric continuity.  Then check your feeder connections and rail connections if using those for electricity supply to track segments.  

Bill D. 

N&W Steam Only



On Jul 3, 2021, at 1:33 PM, tlm1945 via groups.io <tlm1945@...> wrote:

     What is the preferred or correct DCC voltage?

     I'm new to DCC. i started with the NCE Powercab and have recently upgraded to the SB5 booster. On the power supply for the booster there is a switch where you can select 12v or 13.6 volts. Because the power supply for the Powercab is listed as 13.6 volts output, I selected 13.6 for the SB5. I have 13.6 DCC volts on my track and the locomotives have been running fine. 

     KATO states on their locomotive boxes to not use more that 12 volts. Is 13.6 a danger? I would agree that using 20 volts or so could be damaging, but is 1.6 volts too much?

     The reason I'm asking is that recently several of my locomotives [ KATO, Bachman and BLI] have started to run intermittently. The BLI's actually pulled the voltage down to 10.6 volts. Two new KATO F3 units that I recently installed two NCE decoders in have started to act up. They run and stop and run again. 

     The reason for giving all of this information is it possible that the 13.6 volts has damaged the motors or circuit boards causing the abnormal operating?

     Thank you for any advice, comments, or suggestions. This is one of many questions that I have, but I have to start somewhere. There are no individuals or clubs in my area that I know of that can help me. Everything I have learned or done has been by manufacturers instruction, trial and error, or reliable persons on Utube.

    Thank you....


Re: Correct DCC Voltage

D B
 

Try cleaning the contacts (wheels)on your locos and the track.  Sounds like poor electric continuity.  Then check your feeder connections and rail connections if using those for electricity supply to track segments.  
Bill D. 
N&W Steam Only

On Jul 3, 2021, at 1:33 PM, tlm1945 via groups.io <tlm1945@...> wrote:

     What is the preferred or correct DCC voltage?

     I'm new to DCC. i started with the NCE Powercab and have recently upgraded to the SB5 booster. On the power supply for the booster there is a switch where you can select 12v or 13.6 volts. Because the power supply for the Powercab is listed as 13.6 volts output, I selected 13.6 for the SB5. I have 13.6 DCC volts on my track and the locomotives have been running fine. 

     KATO states on their locomotive boxes to not use more that 12 volts. Is 13.6 a danger? I would agree that using 20 volts or so could be damaging, but is 1.6 volts too much?

     The reason I'm asking is that recently several of my locomotives [ KATO, Bachman and BLI] have started to run intermittently. The BLI's actually pulled the voltage down to 10.6 volts. Two new KATO F3 units that I recently installed two NCE decoders in have started to act up. They run and stop and run again. 

     The reason for giving all of this information is it possible that the 13.6 volts has damaged the motors or circuit boards causing the abnormal operating?

     Thank you for any advice, comments, or suggestions. This is one of many questions that I have, but I have to start somewhere. There are no individuals or clubs in my area that I know of that can help me. Everything I have learned or done has been by manufacturers instruction, trial and error, or reliable persons on Utube.

    Thank you....


Correct DCC Voltage

tlm1945@...
 

     What is the preferred or correct DCC voltage?

     I'm new to DCC. i started with the NCE Powercab and have recently upgraded to the SB5 booster. On the power supply for the booster there is a switch where you can select 12v or 13.6 volts. Because the power supply for the Powercab is listed as 13.6 volts output, I selected 13.6 for the SB5. I have 13.6 DCC volts on my track and the locomotives have been running fine. 

     KATO states on their locomotive boxes to not use more that 12 volts. Is 13.6 a danger? I would agree that using 20 volts or so could be damaging, but is 1.6 volts too much?

     The reason I'm asking is that recently several of my locomotives [ KATO, Bachman and BLI] have started to run intermittently. The BLI's actually pulled the voltage down to 10.6 volts. Two new KATO F3 units that I recently installed two NCE decoders in have started to act up. They run and stop and run again. 

     The reason for giving all of this information is it possible that the 13.6 volts has damaged the motors or circuit boards causing the abnormal operating?

     Thank you for any advice, comments, or suggestions. This is one of many questions that I have, but I have to start somewhere. There are no individuals or clubs in my area that I know of that can help me. Everything I have learned or done has been by manufacturers instruction, trial and error, or reliable persons on Utube.

    Thank you....


Re: Wiring a Circuitron DT-1 to a DCC system

Don Weigt
 

Eric/Ric,

If what Don wrote is true, that all you can do is power it from the DCC system, then I'd say, don't do it, unless you have a great surplus of DCC power. DCC power is relatively expensive, given it's from AC, converted to DC, then converted into DCC. It's expensive to add another booster if you load your track power down too much with stationary devices.

That external full wave rectifier DonV mentions should be one made for higher frequencies. Typical ones are made to be efficient at power line frequencies. DCC is primarily about 100 times that frequency and have components quite a bit higher. Common power rectifiers aren't very efficient at those higher frequencies: the diodes turn on and off too slowly, and leak power across from one DCC wire to the other that never makes it to the DC load.

Also, even though DCC is much higher frequency than power line AC, the voltage still goes to zero momentarily as it reverses polarity. Any DC device powered by it will need some energy storage in a capacitor on its input. If there isn't one built into the circuit board, you might have to add one for the circuit to work properly.

It would be better to run a DC bus around your layout if you're going to have multiple DT-1s, building lights, and so on to power. It would be very easy to run a length of "speaker wire" from any DC source on your layout to the DT-1.


--
Don Weigt
Connecticut


Re: Wiring a Circuitron DT-1 to a DCC system

Don Vollrath
 

Eric/Ric … what do you expect the DT-1 to do on a DCC system? Just get operating power from the track? (Add an external full wave rectifier between DCC power and the DC input to the board) You still need to utilize the IR sensors and output drivers as intended with DC systems. The DR-1 can’t do anything else.

DonV


Re: Wiring a Circuitron DT-1 to a DCC system

Puckdropper
 

I've found a fiberglass scratch brush is great for cleaning the rail before soldering. It takes paint and scenery materials off quickly without damaging the ties like a Dremel tool can. I'll often use it on new track as well as old to clean off any oxidation that's occurred.

A good no-clean also Flux helps a lot. If it takes more than 2 seconds to solder a feeder, you'll probably be melting ties.

One more tip: wipe that iron tip on wet paper towel or a sponge just before you apply it to the joint.

Puckdropper

781 - 800 of 13568