Date   

Re: Staging yard wiring question

Scott H. Haycock
 

Sorry.
 
  You said bus wire when I think you mean feeder wire, thus the confusion. 

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 06/21/2021 3:22 PM Blair <smithbr@...> wrote:
 
 

Why is it that no one reads the original post any more?  As I said, there is a relay, and a block detector, for one rail of each track.  My question was focused on the best wiring of the second, common, rail.

Blair

 

On 6/21/2021 4:57 PM, george hohon3 wrote:
I did this exact thing for the exactly the same reason.  In doing so, it prevents the command station from seeing a surge in voltage and therefore, a total power shut down.
 
To make the routing of power to a specific track as simple as possible, I use two, 12-position rotary switches, skipping every other contact so I am never more than one click away from shutting off the power to that track (each rotary switch controls the power to 6 individual tracks).  I also placed a power reading LED neatly between the ties to confirm a "visual" when power was on.  But this feature is no longer needed because all 12 tracks hold "favorite" trains with lighted interiors, along with their startup of sound.  You immediately know what track you've selected . . . .
 
George
in SLO
 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> on behalf of Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:59 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Staging yard wiring question
 
One reason to have each track separately wired would be to prevent all the sound equipped engines in the yard from starting up at the same time when you power up!

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment

> On 06/21/2021 1:38 PM Steve Haas <goatfisher2@...> wrote:
>

> >>>>> I have a 12-track staging yard. . . . . . . .   However, respecting the second bus wire for each track back rail, is there anything that prevents that wire being common to several/all of the tracks?  I.e. could I wire, in the extreme, all 12 back rails to one common bus feed?  I had already assumed I'd run a wire for each track, but it occurs to me that that may be excessive. <<<<
>
> Nothing at all to prevent you from using a "common" bus for the other rail on each of those tracks.
>
> If you think about it, whether you install a second "block" bus for that other rail or tie them all together to a single block bus for the yard the logical flow of electricity is the same.
>
> I'd run that common "block" bus down the middle of the yard, six tracks on one side, six tracks on the other - will reduce the overall length of the individual track feeders.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve
>
> Steve Haas
> Snoqualmie, WA

>
>
> Comments?
>
> Blair
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






Re: Staging yard wiring question

emrldsky
 

On 6/21/2021 2:22 PM, Blair wrote:
My question was focused on the best wiring of the second, common, rail.
Hi Blair,
In my opinion, there can never be too many feeders to any rail. It may seem like a lot more work on paper, but I have found, once you get the rhythm going, it is no big deal. On my layout I have a minimum, of one feeder per section, regardless of size, and one feeder every two feet, for both rails.

Peace,
Mike G.


Re: Staging yard wiring question

Blair
 

Why is it that no one reads the original post any more?  As I said, there is a relay, and a block detector, for one rail of each track.  My question was focused on the best wiring of the second, common, rail.

Blair


On 6/21/2021 4:57 PM, george hohon3 wrote:
I did this exact thing for the exactly the same reason.  In doing so, it prevents the command station from seeing a surge in voltage and therefore, a total power shut down.

To make the routing of power to a specific track as simple as possible, I use two, 12-position rotary switches, skipping every other contact so I am never more than one click away from shutting off the power to that track (each rotary switch controls the power to 6 individual tracks).  I also placed a power reading LED neatly between the ties to confirm a "visual" when power was on.  But this feature is no longer needed because all 12 tracks hold "favorite" trains with lighted interiors, along with their startup of sound.  You immediately know what track you've selected . . . .

George
in SLO


From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> on behalf of Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:59 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Staging yard wiring question
 
One reason to have each track separately wired would be to prevent all the sound equipped engines in the yard from starting up at the same time when you power up!

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment

> On 06/21/2021 1:38 PM Steve Haas <goatfisher2@...> wrote:
>

> >>>>> I have a 12-track staging yard. . . . . . . .   However, respecting the second bus wire for each track back rail, is there anything that prevents that wire being common to several/all of the tracks?  I.e. could I wire, in the extreme, all 12 back rails to one common bus feed?  I had already assumed I'd run a wire for each track, but it occurs to me that that may be excessive. <<<<
>
> Nothing at all to prevent you from using a "common" bus for the other rail on each of those tracks.
>
> If you think about it, whether you install a second "block" bus for that other rail or tie them all together to a single block bus for the yard the logical flow of electricity is the same.
>
> I'd run that common "block" bus down the middle of the yard, six tracks on one side, six tracks on the other - will reduce the overall length of the individual track feeders.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve
>
> Steve Haas
> Snoqualmie, WA

>
>
> Comments?
>
> Blair
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






Re: Staging yard wiring question

george hohon3
 

I did this exact thing for the exactly the same reason.  In doing so, it prevents the command station from seeing a surge in voltage and therefore, a total power shut down.

To make the routing of power to a specific track as simple as possible, I use two, 12-position rotary switches, skipping every other contact so I am never more than one click away from shutting off the power to that track (each rotary switch controls the power to 6 individual tracks).  I also placed a power reading LED neatly between the ties to confirm a "visual" when power was on.  But this feature is no longer needed because all 12 tracks hold "favorite" trains with lighted interiors, along with their startup of sound.  You immediately know what track you've selected . . . .

George
in SLO


From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> on behalf of Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 12:59 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Staging yard wiring question
 
One reason to have each track separately wired would be to prevent all the sound equipped engines in the yard from starting up at the same time when you power up!

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment

> On 06/21/2021 1:38 PM Steve Haas <goatfisher2@...> wrote:
>

> >>>>> I have a 12-track staging yard. . . . . . . .   However, respecting the second bus wire for each track back rail, is there anything that prevents that wire being common to several/all of the tracks?  I.e. could I wire, in the extreme, all 12 back rails to one common bus feed?  I had already assumed I'd run a wire for each track, but it occurs to me that that may be excessive. <<<<
>
> Nothing at all to prevent you from using a "common" bus for the other rail on each of those tracks.
>
> If you think about it, whether you install a second "block" bus for that other rail or tie them all together to a single block bus for the yard the logical flow of electricity is the same.
>
> I'd run that common "block" bus down the middle of the yard, six tracks on one side, six tracks on the other - will reduce the overall length of the individual track feeders.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve
>
> Steve Haas
> Snoqualmie, WA

>
>
> Comments?
>
> Blair
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






Re: Staging yard wiring question

Blair
 

that was covered by the fact that I'm wiring one rail individually, and switching them when selected.  (i.e. when a turnout is aligned for a track, at either end, the track is energized).

On 6/21/2021 3:59 PM, Scott H. Haycock wrote:
One reason to have each track separately wired would be to prevent all the sound equipped engines in the yard from starting up at the same time when you power up!

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment

On 06/21/2021 1:38 PM Steve Haas <goatfisher2@comcast.net> wrote:


I have a 12-track staging yard. . . . . . . . However, respecting the second bus wire for each track back rail, is there anything that prevents that wire being common to several/all of the tracks? I.e. could I wire, in the extreme, all 12 back rails to one common bus feed? I had already assumed I'd run a wire for each track, but it occurs to me that that may be excessive. <<<<
Nothing at all to prevent you from using a "common" bus for the other rail on each of those tracks.

If you think about it, whether you install a second "block" bus for that other rail or tie them all together to a single block bus for the yard the logical flow of electricity is the same.

I'd run that common "block" bus down the middle of the yard, six tracks on one side, six tracks on the other - will reduce the overall length of the individual track feeders.

Best regards,

Steve

Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA


Comments?

Blair












Re: Staging yard wiring question

Scott H. Haycock
 

One reason to have each track separately wired would be to prevent all the sound equipped engines in the yard from starting up at the same time when you power up!

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment

On 06/21/2021 1:38 PM Steve Haas <goatfisher2@comcast.net> wrote:


I have a 12-track staging yard. . . . . . . . However, respecting the second bus wire for each track back rail, is there anything that prevents that wire being common to several/all of the tracks? I.e. could I wire, in the extreme, all 12 back rails to one common bus feed? I had already assumed I'd run a wire for each track, but it occurs to me that that may be excessive. <<<<
Nothing at all to prevent you from using a "common" bus for the other rail on each of those tracks.

If you think about it, whether you install a second "block" bus for that other rail or tie them all together to a single block bus for the yard the logical flow of electricity is the same.

I'd run that common "block" bus down the middle of the yard, six tracks on one side, six tracks on the other - will reduce the overall length of the individual track feeders.

Best regards,

Steve

Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA



Comments?

Blair










Re: Staging yard wiring question

Blair
 

thanks, Steve, for the sanity check.  That's what I thought, but...  So the only reason I might run separate runs is if I want to provide the flexibility to split the yard across two boosters at some point in the future.

I'll probably wire 6 and 6, then, just in case.

Blair

On 6/21/2021 3:38 PM, Steve Haas wrote:
I have a 12-track staging yard. . . . . . . . However, respecting the second bus wire for each track back rail, is there anything that prevents that wire being common to several/all of the tracks? I.e. could I wire, in the extreme, all 12 back rails to one common bus feed? I had already assumed I'd run a wire for each track, but it occurs to me that that may be excessive. <<<<
Nothing at all to prevent you from using a "common" bus for the other rail on each of those tracks.

If you think about it, whether you install a second "block" bus for that other rail or tie them all together to a single block bus for the yard the logical flow of electricity is the same.

I'd run that common "block" bus down the middle of the yard, six tracks on one side, six tracks on the other - will reduce the overall length of the individual track feeders.

Best regards,

Steve

Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA


Comments?

Blair












Re: Auto Reverser (s)

wirefordcc
 

Ted,

It sounds like your AR1 is not reversing when it should.  I think it is adjustable.  Try adjusting it.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


Re: Auto Reverser (s)

Blair
 

Maybe swap in a different AR1?  It's possible the relay contacts are welded in the unit, and it's unable to properly switch states.  Or, the circuit is fried completely, and unable to energize the relay.  I threw out one last year, as it failed to operate at all even when swapped into a location where another one had been working fine.

Blair

On 6/21/2021 3:00 PM, BillMellott wrote:
What else changed in your system Ted?
Maybe new Booster? New Short Detection? (add a PSX-1 or other?)
 
anything?
 
I know for me.. and the HMRC (Housatonic Model Railway Club) layout.. I had a great many AR's in PSX-1 districts - without a problem... and without me having fully read instructions on the PSX-1 or AR's in use layout (many different AR Mfg's)
Everything worked great.. till one day we finally got to using the Wye in one Yard.. and the Wye would not work correctly.
Long story short I had to adjust the CV setting in the PSX-1 for longer delay for the AR to trigger correctly.
 
Bill


From: w4dccqa@groups.io [mailto:w4dccqa@groups.io] On Behalf Of Ted Atkinson
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 2:49 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] Auto Reverser (s)

Had used a Digitrax AR1 Auto Reverse Controller, prior to upgrading bus to 14 gauge from 16 gauge, on one reversing section and it worked fine.  Now it allows locos thru one end of the loop but shorts the system at the other end.  Tried reversing the wiring into the reverser and the problem is solved at one end of the loop but not the other (ie the short is now at the other end of the loop).

I substituted a tam valley dual frog juicer, adjusted for reverse loops and it works fine.

Unfortunately, I have several of the Digitrax units and would prefer to get them working without buying another Tam Valley unit.

Any suggestions would be appreciated

Thx, Ted


Re: Auto Reverser (s)

 

What else changed in your system Ted?
Maybe new Booster? New Short Detection? (add a PSX-1 or other?)
 
anything?
 
I know for me.. and the HMRC (Housatonic Model Railway Club) layout.. I had a great many AR's in PSX-1 districts - without a problem... and without me having fully read instructions on the PSX-1 or AR's in use layout (many different AR Mfg's)
Everything worked great.. till one day we finally got to using the Wye in one Yard.. and the Wye would not work correctly.
Long story short I had to adjust the CV setting in the PSX-1 for longer delay for the AR to trigger correctly.
 
Bill



From: w4dccqa@groups.io [mailto:w4dccqa@groups.io] On Behalf Of Ted Atkinson
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 2:49 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] Auto Reverser (s)

Had used a Digitrax AR1 Auto Reverse Controller, prior to upgrading bus to 14 gauge from 16 gauge, on one reversing section and it worked fine.  Now it allows locos thru one end of the loop but shorts the system at the other end.  Tried reversing the wiring into the reverser and the problem is solved at one end of the loop but not the other (ie the short is now at the other end of the loop).

I substituted a tam valley dual frog juicer, adjusted for reverse loops and it works fine.

Unfortunately, I have several of the Digitrax units and would prefer to get them working without buying another Tam Valley unit.

Any suggestions would be appreciated

Thx, Ted


Re: Staging yard wiring question

Steve Haas
 

I have a 12-track staging yard. . . . . . . . However, respecting the second bus wire for each track back rail, is there anything that prevents that wire being common to several/all of the tracks? I.e. could I wire, in the extreme, all 12 back rails to one common bus feed? I had already assumed I'd run a wire for each track, but it occurs to me that that may be excessive. <<<<
Nothing at all to prevent you from using a "common" bus for the other rail on each of those tracks.

If you think about it, whether you install a second "block" bus for that other rail or tie them all together to a single block bus for the yard the logical flow of electricity is the same.

I'd run that common "block" bus down the middle of the yard, six tracks on one side, six tracks on the other - will reduce the overall length of the individual track feeders.

Best regards,

Steve

Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA



Comments?

Blair


Auto Reverser (s)

Ted Atkinson
 

Had used a Digitrax AR1 Auto Reverse Controller, prior to upgrading bus to 14 gauge from 16 gauge, on one reversing section and it worked fine.  Now it allows locos thru one end of the loop but shorts the system at the other end.  Tried reversing the wiring into the reverser and the problem is solved at one end of the loop but not the other (ie the short is now at the other end of the loop).

I substituted a tam valley dual frog juicer, adjusted for reverse loops and it works fine.

Unfortunately, I have several of the Digitrax units and would prefer to get them working without buying another Tam Valley unit.

Any suggestions would be appreciated

Thx, Ted


Staging yard wiring question

Blair
 

I have a 12-track staging yard; in order to implement detection, I need to run one bus wire for each track's front rail, having run that wire through both an on/off switch and a current detector. All is fine there.  However, respecting the second bus wire for each track back rail, is there anything that prevents that wire being common to several/all of the tracks?  I.e. could I wire, in the extreme, all 12 back rails to one common bus feed?  I had already assumed I'd run a wire for each track, but it occurs to me that that may be excessive.

Comments?

Blair


Re: 1156 Bulb Short Protection and Powercab

John Bauchiero
 

I have to agree with Morgan. I do run NCE but the 1156 did not work for me. I use the 1157’s brake filament. One filament of the 1157  is equivalent to the 1156 and the second is a higher current. The 1156 would not light on a short but worse, it would warm up and not pass enough current to the existing locos. I got brave and tried the 1156s in parallel without total satisfaction. So when using the high current 1157 element it worked well and the PowerCab did not trip. It lit on a short but I am not one to leave a short condition for a long time.  I’m a gambler but not to a point to risk my rolling stock.  I am sure if the current was slightly higher and more instantaneous, the PowerCab would go into protect mode. 

This doesn’t mean this is the best way to protect the PowerCab but until I install a real protector, it will have to do.

I am tending to lean toward the DCC Specialties PSX breakers. Flexible, functional and future DCC worthy. I would welcome comments or corrections. 

John

On Jun 18, 2021, at 10:22 AM, PennsyNut <fan4pennsy@...> wrote:

Just for those of y'all that don't use NCE. I use a 1157 bulb with my Digitrax and it works like it's supposed to. I mounted it at the center of my layout/command station, visible all long my shelf layout. And it has functioned perfectly. No matter where I stand, if I see it flash or light up. I know instantly where the problem is. And it's usually right where I'm at. LOL
Morgan Bilbo, slightly over one year with very basic DCC


Re: 1156 Bulb Short Protection and Powercab

PennsyNut
 

Just for those of y'all that don't use NCE. I use a 1157 bulb with my Digitrax and it works like it's supposed to. I mounted it at the center of my layout/command station, visible all long my shelf layout. And it has functioned perfectly. No matter where I stand, if I see it flash or light up. I know instantly where the problem is. And it's usually right where I'm at. LOL
Morgan Bilbo, slightly over one year with very basic DCC


Re: 1156 Bulb Short Protection and Powercab

Dave Hamernik
 

Thanks Ken.


Re: 1156 Bulb Short Protection and Powercab

 

This is what the NCE sites says about protection of the Powercab

"The Power Cab has built in overload for basic self-protection that will continuously try to reset until destroyed if left uncorrected. The Power Cab does not have circuit breakers that will trip or fuses that will blow. Use the new EB1 v1.1 electronic circuit breaker to protect the Power Cab against short circuits."

The power supply only supports 2 Amperes of current.  This increases the trip time for chem fuses.

Best,
Ken Harstine


Re: 1156 Bulb Short Protection and Powercab

Dave Hamernik
 

That makes a lot of sense Blair. Thank you. 


Re: 1156 Bulb Short Protection and Powercab

Blair
 

Dave,

It's a function of prior-current, I suspect - if the bulb was already seeing significant current(i.e. a couple of locos running at speed), then the filament is already warming, so when the short occurs, it takes less time to light up, and hence acts before the powercab; if the filament was cold (i.e. a single low-current loco crawling into a turnout that is in the wrong position), then the booster sees the short before the filament warms.  That's what I think is going on.

I suppose a chart showing which boosters/systems will benefit from bulb-style protection, and which won't, might be useful, but how many people are still deploying bulb protection?

Blair

On 2021-06-16 15:43, Dave Hamernik wrote:
Well I guess wiring up my 1156 bulbs was a bit of an exercise in futility since the powercab responds more quickly. However, the bulbs sometimes do respond first so at the end of the day, they offer an extra level of protection. Not sure why they sometimes light before the powercab but…

Thanks for your response. 
Dave


Re: 1156 Bulb Short Protection and Powercab

Dave Hamernik
 

Well I guess wiring up my 1156 bulbs was a bit of an exercise in futility since the powercab responds more quickly. However, the bulbs sometimes do respond first so at the end of the day, they offer an extra level of protection. Not sure why they sometimes light before the powercab but…

Thanks for your response. 
Dave

301 - 320 of 13042