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Re: Cross over stalling

Don Vollrath
 

Perry, are you sure you are not causing track short circuits by out of sequence movements of the throw bars and points between turnouts? Any insulated joints between turnouts? carefully look at the point on the point rails. Ensure that there is a tiny pointed end where it touches the stock rail. This is where current to the point rail and frog is being picked up or lost. Ensure the linkage to control the throw bar puts adequate pressure to force the point rail to touch the stock rail. Be sure there are no vertical bumps in the rails to lift loco wheels off the rails as a loco rolls through. Adding jumper wires at this time will be tricky but may be necessary. Tighten up any swivel joints with a center punch. Adding conductalube may help.

DonV


Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

Dale Muir
 

Hi John. I'm glad you finally found a solution. Here is another issue that no one mentioned so far:

A few years ago I acquired several Athearn Genesis F3 and F7 units. As I converted them to DCC I programmed in momentum. I hard-wired the decoders so there was no issue with plugs or connectors. I also soldered the decoder leads directly to the trucks. They kept momentarily cutting out, and cycling through the startup sequence. Athearn sent replacement trucks, but they didn't help. The problem was with the truck design. The "wipers" that rest on the axles were not making good contact even after cleaning. I added tiny phosphor bronze wires that contact the wheel treads, and that solved the problem. The phosphor bronze wires were soldered to the brass truck parts meant to pick up current from the axles. This was tricky, and I used a resistance soldering unit and the resistance tweezers to hold the parts together while soldering.

Dale Muir
Geneva, IL


Re: Wiring Advice Needed

Tim
 

Flex track has a tendency for the rail to creep, some more than others. Filling the gap will insure that it stays a gap.

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


Cross over stalling

Perry A Pollino
 

Folks,
I have have  a cross over using Peco electro frog turnouts in N scale. I am running DCC. I have DCC specialties Frog AR controlling power to all my frogs. I use Tortoise switch machines for movement of the points. I am not using Tortoise contacts to power the track in any way.
Yesterday for the first time I tried to run a loco through this cross over. It stalled in the same place in either direction. My RRamp meter shows I have voltage in all portions of the crossover. Even the points. Yet I stall every time.
I have another crossover  on my main line I also have occasional issues with. usually a cleaning will help that one. So I am perplexed.
The only different is the control of each of these. The crossover on the main line both points move with one switch. The other has a switch for each point. 
So I have some questions to help me trouble shoot. I have test leads plugged into my RRamp meter. But it occured to me  I may still be putting enough pleasure on the points to get a good read, yet the locomotive is not creating the pressure. I did try putting pleasure on the loco where it stalled with no success.

I am now regretting not putting jumper wires to all my point rails before mounting them.
I am not about to pull up over 60 turnouts to do this.
So here are my questions:
Has anybody used cunductalube to improve turnout point conductivity at the hinge portion with success? 
Someone I meet at a train show some time ago suggested putting Solder at the hinge as well or small jumper wire. That seems very tricky. However if anyone has experience with this, or other suggestions for improving point conductivity on turnouts that are in place I am  open to suggestions.
Thanks Perry 


Wiring Terminal Article

Carl
 

Hi Gang:

Model Railroad Hobbyist published my article on PVC terminal strips:

https://online.fliphtml5.com/buups/ksic/index.html#p=59

In the comments there is a picture of an easy to do DCC snubber.

Hope you enjoy it and find it useful.

Carl.


Re: Wiring Advice Needed

monty cunningham
 

Just asking, if you use a thin Dremel disk do you necessarily need to fill the gap?


Re: Wiring Advice Needed

Blair
 

Alan

Cut (using Dremel disk or jewelers saw)  through the rail(s) at the desired location, fill the new gap with a bit of styrene glued in (I use epoxy, others use ACC), file smooth the rail head if the styrene protrudes, then paint the rail.  Optionally, use some scenic element to mark where the gap is, because if you do this carefully, it'll be hard to find...

Blair

On 2021-04-19 7:40, alynmar@... wrote:
Does anyone have a suggestion on how to add an isolated section to existing track without having to rip it up and put in insulated rail joiners?  I made a big mistake and forgot to put them in at the end of one power district.

Thanks - Alan


Wiring Advice Needed

alynmar@...
 

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to add an isolated section to existing track without having to rip it up and put in insulated rail joiners?  I made a big mistake and forgot to put them in at the end of one power district.

Thanks - Alan


Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

John White
 


 Well went to the basement to fiddle with the engine. I GOT IT!!!

I changed out the front truck, which I thought it was the culprit for sometime, but couldn't figure how that could be a problem. After I changed it I ran it for roughly 15 or 20 minutes with no pauses or stopping. So now I have to figure out what is going on with it. Thanks for all the support.

JT


Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

John White
 

And so here we go again. Like I said, I put everything back to DC and what a real nice running engine this thing is. So dismantled DC and put back to DCC. It started out nice for about 16 feet and then the dirty little @#$%^&* just quit. And believe me everything works as it should, except when it is converted to DCC. The only thing left that I haven't totally ignored, is the trucks. So, I will change them out for a different set and see what the outcome is from there. If it does the same thing again I will sell it with the added note, DO NOT CONVERT TO DCC BECAUSE IT DON"T LIKE it! I have done everything that has been suggested and more. I've never had this much trouble with any conversion I've done, including the Athearn Blue Box engines, as that is exactly what this is. The same frame, trucks, drive shaft and motor with the tape in the bottom, which someone before me got rid of all the attachments that came from the manufacture and hard wired it with the wire from the tabs on the trucks to the top of the motor and the bottom brush holder appears to have been changed for one like on top to a screw on the weight for that to complete the circuit. IT RUS GREAT! in DC configuration, but not DCC. I hang my head in disappointment. :-(
JT.


Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

John White
 

Ok, so today I totally dismantled my Proto GP30 and put it back to DC. It operated just like it's supposed to. Now I will again convert it to DCC and see what this will bring to me. Hopefully I'll be done with this frustrating Gremlin infested locomotive. Will post my findings, although it may not include the evasive answer as to what was plaguing this install.
Thanks for all your suggestions.
JT


Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

Jim Betz
 

John,
  The P2K trucks were loaded up with a low quality grease.  It gets 
everywhere - such as on the backs of the wheels where it interferes
with the power pickup.  Eventually it gets hard and will actually
cause the drive to slow down/not work right.
  The fix is to take the shell and bottom cover off of the truck and
flood the truck with isopropyl until -all- of the old grease is gone.
You can see it and it will be a dark yellow if it has solidified and a
less dark yellow before that.  Relube with Labelle plastic compatible
and conductive oil (104?) and you will be surprised how well the
loco runs after removing all of the factory grease.  
  This problem is present in every P2K loco I've ever opened up.
And it doesn't make any difference if the loco has been run 
frequently or not since it was built.  In fact the worst ones are
usually the ones that have never been run and are just now
being put into service.
                                                                             - Jim 


Re: MERG Cbus

Blair
 

Nick
Whoops, I just noticed, this is your thread.  You may hijack at will!
Blair


Re: MERG Cbus

Blair
 

Nick

You've hijacked the thread, this is no longer about MERG Cbus.  It's good form to raise your own new topic instead (by hijacking, you've ensured that those who aren't interested in MERG won't see your posting, as it's filed under "MERG Cbus")).  However, the damage is done, so we'll continue, unless the moderator straightens us out.

Here's another table that will help you with wire gauge to dimensions:

https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/awg-to-mm.html

Here's a page on a site by Mark Gurries, an EE with significant DCC experience, with a lot of info about bus and DCC wiring; it's complementary to the wiring4DCC website, but gets at the underlying reasons a bit differently. 

https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/dcc-general-best-practices/standardizing-wiring-and-connections

You haven't told us how large your layout is or what it's topography is (4x8 oval, basement filling "E" or "W", double deck, multiple yards, etc.); these things have huge effects on the lengths of run and likely current consumption, so it's very hard to tell you if your wiring choices are appropriate or not.  It's likely your layout is on the smaller side, and your choices are therefore okay, but I'm guessing at that.

Blair

On 2021-04-15 4:50, George Hewitt via groups.io wrote:
Nick


The dimensions all relate to the wire size as that carries the current.  

Regards

George (another Aussie)



Re: MERG Cbus

whmvd
 

Hi Nick,

With an NCE system, it's quite likely you may also want to think about a Cab Bus. That's where things like extra wired cabs go, but also, if you want them, mini panels and AIUs (feedback units). Best to investigate those things now rather than too late for comfort.

Wouter


On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 at 09:10, Nick Monksfield <nick.monksfield@...> wrote:
Thanks Ken.
I am definitely going to join MERG to reap the benefits.
As I am nearing wiring on my layout I think I need 3 bus lines, one for DCC, a 12 volt one for accessories and one for the Cbus. Is this correct? I'm assuming that the 12 volt line will power the Cbus modules and their outputs (for example the point motors)?
Also I have been looking into what wire/cable I can buy here in Australia, and they don't seem to rely on AWG like the US, most of the wires I can see are graded on either cross-section, Amperage or area, and I'm not sure if these measurements include or exclude the insulation. I am a bit confused as to what I should get. I am thinking that I need 14 or 16AWG for the DCC bus with 22AWG feeders but can't seem to work out the equivalent here in Oz. I also have no idea what to get for the other bus runs (12 volt and Cbus).
Does anyone have any knowledge of where I can get the appropriate wire/cable and what I need here in Oz? I have looked at Bunnings and at Jaycar but have just confused myself.


Re: MERG Cbus

George Hewitt
 

Nick


The dimensions all relate to the wire size as that carries the current.  

Regards

George (another Aussie)



Re: MERG Cbus

Nick Monksfield
 

Thanks Ken.
I am definitely going to join MERG to reap the benefits.
As I am nearing wiring on my layout I think I need 3 bus lines, one for DCC, a 12 volt one for accessories and one for the Cbus. Is this correct? I'm assuming that the 12 volt line will power the Cbus modules and their outputs (for example the point motors)?
Also I have been looking into what wire/cable I can buy here in Australia, and they don't seem to rely on AWG like the US, most of the wires I can see are graded on either cross-section, Amperage or area, and I'm not sure if these measurements include or exclude the insulation. I am a bit confused as to what I should get. I am thinking that I need 14 or 16AWG for the DCC bus with 22AWG feeders but can't seem to work out the equivalent here in Oz. I also have no idea what to get for the other bus runs (12 volt and Cbus).
Does anyone have any knowledge of where I can get the appropriate wire/cable and what I need here in Oz? I have looked at Bunnings and at Jaycar but have just confused myself.


Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

whmvd
 

John,

If I were you, I'd add one intermediate testing stage between weighted/DC and non-weighted/DCC, as that changes two big variables at one time. I'd do non-weighted/DC in between to cut one of those out.

Wouter


On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 at 14:32, John White <jtw37@...> wrote:
Well guys, I have read everything that you have given me and most of it, I have tried and will keep trying. Those of you who have the Proto 2000 locomotives know about the heavy weight in them, know how much room there isn't to run wires. So my next step is to totally remove it from the equation and wire it again and see what the results will be. But first I'm going to wire it totally for DC, which I didn't have that problem with and see how it acts and that will be with the weight in place. If it works fine like it did originally I will wire it for DCC without the weight and see what the outcome will be. Never have I ever had this issue with any locomotive, be it Proto, Athearn, Atlas, AHM, Bachmann, Mehano, Model Power or Kato. Even the old clunky pancake motors that I experimented with just for fun. I've been in the hobby since 1974 off & on, so I'm just a bit frustrated about it. And then I have six acres to tend to, with trees down this past winter and attempting to get rid of things not needed anymore. So right now my Model Railroad time, unfortunately is a bit limited, but I will continue with this post till I either solve the problem or solve the problem, because I'm not letting it win.
Thanks for all your input as it keeps me focused on the issue at hand. Until next post.
JT


Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

John White
 

Well guys, I have read everything that you have given me and most of it, I have tried and will keep trying. Those of you who have the Proto 2000 locomotives know about the heavy weight in them, know how much room there isn't to run wires. So my next step is to totally remove it from the equation and wire it again and see what the results will be. But first I'm going to wire it totally for DC, which I didn't have that problem with and see how it acts and that will be with the weight in place. If it works fine like it did originally I will wire it for DCC without the weight and see what the outcome will be. Never have I ever had this issue with any locomotive, be it Proto, Athearn, Atlas, AHM, Bachmann, Mehano, Model Power or Kato. Even the old clunky pancake motors that I experimented with just for fun. I've been in the hobby since 1974 off & on, so I'm just a bit frustrated about it. And then I have six acres to tend to, with trees down this past winter and attempting to get rid of things not needed anymore. So right now my Model Railroad time, unfortunately is a bit limited, but I will continue with this post till I either solve the problem or solve the problem, because I'm not letting it win.
Thanks for all your input as it keeps me focused on the issue at hand. Until next post.
JT


Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

John White
 

I forgot to put this in the last post, It acts like it just is not picking up power from the track and a slight nudge, not even moving it and it takes off, but not always. How dumb, right. I'm just going to have to do like in my last post and stick with it. Thanks.
JT

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