Date   

Re: MERG Cbus

Ken Bates
 

Yes, it does do what you think it does.

 

It uses 2 wires for the BUS and 2 wires (12v) to power the modules, in most cases.

 

I am using it, and very pleased with it as well.

 

If you join MERG you find a wealth of info and help, with a forum where any problems are discussed.

 

Ken

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of nick.monksfield@...
Sent: 14 April 2021 06:49
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] MERG Cbus

 

Hi all,

I am in the process of building my first HO scale layout. I have all the benchwork sorted and am currently in the process of laying cork roadbed to my design. I have an NCE Powercab DCC system for the control of locos. I am nearly ready to start my wiring.

I am constantly reading things (researching) from the web and came across a site called MERG. I am quite interested in using a system they have developed for controlling my point motors, signals and even street and building lighting. It is called Cbus and as far as I can tell works in a similar way to DCC in that it has a bus wire that transmits commands to the accessories from a central control (in my case I am planning on using a computer to control this).

My question is - Does anybody here use this system, or know anything about it, and is it what I think it is?

Thanks

Nick


MERG Cbus

Nick Monksfield
 

Hi all,
I am in the process of building my first HO scale layout. I have all the benchwork sorted and am currently in the process of laying cork roadbed to my design. I have an NCE Powercab DCC system for the control of locos. I am nearly ready to start my wiring.
I am constantly reading things (researching) from the web and came across a site called MERG. I am quite interested in using a system they have developed for controlling my point motors, signals and even street and building lighting. It is called Cbus and as far as I can tell works in a similar way to DCC in that it has a bus wire that transmits commands to the accessories from a central control (in my case I am planning on using a computer to control this).
My question is - Does anybody here use this system, or know anything about it, and is it what I think it is?
Thanks
Nick


Re: Website Now Secure

Joseph A. Correro, Jr.
 

Thank you Allan!

Jody Correro



"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away!"


On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 9:57 AM wirefordcc <bigboy@...> wrote:
Greetings everyone,

The Wiring for DCC is now secure.  You will notice that it is now https://www.WiringForDCC.com.  You don't have to do anything special.  If you don't see the https in the URL, hit the refresh on your browser.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


Re: Short Circuit on One of my Districts

Jim Betz
 

Tom,

  A gap has either closed up or opened that you depend upon.  Your 
symptoms indicate that it is a closed gap.  Probably due to cleaning
track because we often press down too hard and move the track in
the ties one direction or the other.  Look near any turnouts or 
whereever you have 'district boundaries'.
                                                                                 - Jim


Website Now Secure

wirefordcc
 

Greetings everyone,

The Wiring for DCC is now secure.  You will notice that it is now https://www.WiringForDCC.com.  You don't have to do anything special.  If you don't see the https in the URL, hit the refresh on your browser.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


Re: Walthers switch 942-101 and NCE PowerPro

ryan_henry@...
 

Thanks everyone for the excellent feedback. This community is a great resource. I think the NCE mini panel will incorporate the various methods of switch control that I will need.

I appreciate the help.
Ryan 


Re: What is a "throat controlled relay"

Tim Tedrow
 

Got it.

Thanks,
Tim


Short Circuit on One of my Districts

Tom Grassi
 

Hello All,

 

When I installed my  NCE EB1’s I tested my trains all when well.

 

Today is the first day of running my trains after I changed all my Tortoise machines to use .037 wire.   No electrical change was made

 

Train 1 runs fine.   District 1

 

Train 2 is my problem  District 2

 

Train 3  District 3 ran fine had to trim the .037 wire on one switch for the engine to drive over the switch.

 

Now for Train 2  when it hits a section of track the EB1 trips.  I lose power.

 

So I reset the EB1 moved the train past the area and it ran fine.

 

So I backed up the train and it tripped in another spot.

 

That was right at where I have feeder connected to the buss for this district.

 

Powered of the DCC system and removed the feeders from the buss.

 

I then started Train 2 again and now it moved thru that spot but trips and the same spot as it did the first time.

 

 

The spot in question is an Atlas switch.   This is part of a double cross over with 4 Atlas switches.

 

Remember I said above the Train 3 worked fine well that train goes thru the same double cross over as train 2 does passes over two of the 4 atlas switches.

 

Now 2 of the 4 atlas switches have insulators on both rails. The plastic yellow ones.  Easier to see

 

Both Train2 and Train 3 ran over this double cross over with no issue prior to the EB1 setup which requires insulation.

 

 

So possible two problems here.

 

1.       How can a feeder go bad?  Same size wire used on all my feeders  Buss wire is new this year.

 

2.       Train 2 trips circuit at a switch but goes over several over switches of the same make and model.  All Atlas   which happen to be plastic frogs.   And Train 2 has 6 wheels per truck.     I heard that smaller engines have issues on DCC  systems with switches that have plastic frogs.

 

 

When I put my volt meter on the section of track it read the same level of volts thru out the section

 

 

 

Any ideas or suggestions.

 

 

Thank you

 

Tom

 

 

 

 

--
Tom Grassi
trgrassijr@...


Re: What is a "throat controlled relay"

john
 

Could you be talking about automating a reverse loop or using occupancy to throw an approached switch.

At my club (Crossroads Rail Road Club, Vandalia, Ohio), i automated two switches (Tortoise) one at the end of a single track reverse loop and one at the end of a double main to a single track through a yard. The project started with a purchased timer relay that is activated with a DIY light detector and a DPDT relay to throw the switches restart the timer every time a gap between cars passes over the light sensor and an additional 30 seconds after the train passes. 

Since i built the circuit i have found light detectors and relay modules for cheap on line making DIY unnecessary. These module could be put in configurations that automate your imagination or just throw a switch when it is approached.

jd



On Sunday, April 11, 2021, 09:35:13 AM EDT, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote:


A throat controlled relay is  a DPDT relay used to set the polarity of the reversing loop based on the position of a turnout or “throat “ to following tracks. The fast acting  relay takes the place of a sometimes finicky (and expensive) AR controller. 
You provide the relay. You figure out how to selectively turn it on/off depending on the position of the throw bar of the turnout. 
Allan shows how to do this on his website using a 12Vdc relay and a diode with the relay coil wired from a Tortoise or other stall type reversible   turnout motor. The relay provides a fast polarity switch and greater amp capacity than other ‘slide switch’ mechanisms. 

DonV 


Re: Walthers switch 942-101 and NCE PowerPro

David Klemm
 

You don’t need one way. At the NMMRC we have 3 ways to control a turnout and they all report in JMRI. We use a panel, a throttle (including phone) or a JMRI panel. 

As others have stated you need a device at the turnout to tell the DCC system what is the state. We use Tam Valley products and there are others. 

BTW, during open houses we disable the panels. All those green and red lights attract little fingers that push them to see what happens. That results in ‘crashes’ on the layout. 

David Klemm
12 PRO


From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> on behalf of ryan_henry@... <ryan_henry@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 8, 2021 6:58:54 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Walthers switch 942-101 and NCE PowerPro
 
John thank you for the input.  I have been using JMRI also and that has been an issue for me too. If a switch has been thrown from fascia since the last JMRI switch command I don't have an accurate panel view of the route. I feel like I need to choose one method exclusively for switch control, only fascia, only DCC cab, or only JMRI to reduce my chances of putting a train where I didn't intend for it to go. Maybe using the other indication options to a central local control panel would be way to go also.

Open to other options, switch types, or general suggestions.

Thanks everyone,
Ryan 


Re: What is a "throat controlled relay"

Don Vollrath
 

A throat controlled relay is  a DPDT relay used to set the polarity of the reversing loop based on the position of a turnout or “throat “ to following tracks. The fast acting  relay takes the place of a sometimes finicky (and expensive) AR controller. 
You provide the relay. You figure out how to selectively turn it on/off depending on the position of the throw bar of the turnout. 
Allan shows how to do this on his website using a 12Vdc relay and a diode with the relay coil wired from a Tortoise or other stall type reversible   turnout motor. The relay provides a fast polarity switch and greater amp capacity than other ‘slide switch’ mechanisms. 

DonV 


Re: Walthers switch 942-101 and NCE PowerPro

Jim Betz
 

Ryan,
  It is not your switch (brand) nor your system (NCE) - all DCC layouts
(pretty much) operate the same basic way.  The part you are missing
is the "turnout status feedback" to JMRI/whoever cares.
  If you throw turnouts using the fascia - there are ways to get the
current status of the turnout ... but they aren't as simple as just
using DCC.
  The best of those methods - in my opinion - is to use LCC to
"control the layout" and DCC to control the trains.  If you do that
most guys would not use a stationary decoder to control the
turnout ... simply because decoders are DCC and DCC is a
"send and pray" system (you don't actually know that the
turnout has gotten the command and acted on it - you just
know that the command has been sent.
  Another method for doing this that some guys are using is
to use Arduinos.  

  ===> It is not important, and some would say not even desirable,
           to have your layout control use DCC.

  Implementing any kind of computer control of your layout is
not easy and can (usually? often?) involves a whole new layer of
"technology".  
  The choice to use DCC, LCC, Arduinos, ... whatever ... to control
your layout is often driven by the choice to implement some sort of
signaling system.

  I will tell you what my choice is/was.  My layout will be TT&TO which
means that it will not have signals.  It is based upon an actual 
prototype RR - in the late 40's/early 50's - and there weren't any
signals in use in that era.  BUT - I have considerable hidden track
in my staging.  So I have chosen to use LCC for staging and hand
thrown turnouts for the visible layout - with a few tortoise driven
turnouts where the turnout is hard to reach.  My layout room is
30 x 15 with a 10 x 10 bump out on one end.  There is one visible
layer and staging is under 2/3rds of the entire visible layout.  The
layout is "Ops oriented" and will have a crew of 6 or 7.
  Some of what I'm doing is based upon my preference to not use
DCC controlled turnouts.  I - this is me - do not like using DCC to
throw turnouts.  My other preference is that I don't want to use a
general purpose computer (JMRI, RR & Co., whatever) in order to
control the layout ... so to do my staging I had to choose between
"manual" and either LCC or arduino controls.

  Your methods may vary - model railroading is a series of choices
(some call them "compromises") and the above reflects what I
decided.
                                                                             - Jim


Re: What is a "throat controlled relay"

jnwoofer
 

Greg/Blair,

If you look at Allan's page, the basic "throat controlled relay" is inside the Tortoise when you are using 2-7 contacts.  As you set the route through the throat (using contacts 1 and 8), the other contacts change accordingly, allowing the polarity to be swapped (and some people will call this "extended power routing", by the way).  Allan does show a color version of the tortoise contacts below #4 of the "Reversing a Balloon Track with a Tortoise".

If you don't use the Tortoise contacts, he shows you can use an external separate relay in the first diagram under #1.  The relay is above the block labelled "Tortoise".

The DPDT switch on the left side of that same diagram is used to control both the route through the turnout and the loop polarity.

So, the "throat controlled relay" is just the relay part, not the DPDT switch or the combination of the DPDT switch and the relay.

Hope this helps!
Jim






The action of pubining the selection of the turnout setting (contacts 1 and 8) and an additional relay outside of the tortoise onto a DPDT switch used to control both the Tortoise and the track polarity.


Re: Walthers switch 942-101 and NCE PowerPro

Al Silverstein
 

Ryan,
 
I am not sure that this thread is a proper topic for this forum but your problem is not unique.
 
By NMRA Standards all decoders must be able to receive their commands from the rails.
 
The transmission of decoder commands is a broadcast scenario, in short it is a one way communication initiated by the command station and received by the decoder.
 
There are other DCC command systems that have additional means of sending commands to decoders in addition to the broadcasting of switch command via the rails.
 
The NCE system can keep track of switch command sent to a switch machine by a throttle or other layout control device that can cause a switch command to be sent from the command station via the rails to a DCC turnout controller. 
 
When you send a switch command via a NCE throttle to a 942-101 device you are sending that command via the rails. The NCE system knows that the switch command was sent and can keep track of that command. The JMRI system knows that the switch command was sent and keep track of that command. Neither device can detect when a local push button is pressed because the 942-101 does not have a circuit that can provide feed back to either the NCE Power Pro or the JMRI.
 
What is needed for the passing of switch control information to received by the NCE Power Pro or the JMRI from a 942-101 device is a connect to a feedback circuit that sends local switch command activity back to the NCE Power Pro system and the JMRI. 
 
Not being a NCE user to control my layout I can only suggest that you ask the question on a NCE forum how you can obtain the necessary feedback from a 942-101 so that your NCE Power Pro can display the correct orientation of the turnout that is being controlled by a 942-101. 
 
Al Silverstein
 

From: ryan_henry@...
Sent: Thursday, April 8, 2021 7:58 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Walthers switch 942-101 and NCE PowerPro
 
John thank you for the input.  I have been using JMRI also and that has been an issue for me too. If a switch has been thrown from fascia since the last JMRI switch command I don't have an accurate panel view of the route. I feel like I need to choose one method exclusively for switch control, only fascia, only DCC cab, or only JMRI to reduce my chances of putting a train where I didn't intend for it to go. Maybe using the other indication options to a central local control panel would be way to go also.

Open to other options, switch types, or general suggestions.

Thanks everyone,
Ryan 


Re: What is a "throat controlled relay"

Blair
 

Greg

As I see it, that's a DPDT toggle switch, or a slider, the output from it is used to both control the Tortoise and the track polarity.  "SV #1" is probably "SW #1", i.e. switch number 1.

Although, it could just as easily be a DPDT relay controlled by an automation system.
Blair


Re: Walthers switch 942-101 and NCE PowerPro

ryan_henry@...
 

John thank you for the input.  I have been using JMRI also and that has been an issue for me too. If a switch has been thrown from fascia since the last JMRI switch command I don't have an accurate panel view of the route. I feel like I need to choose one method exclusively for switch control, only fascia, only DCC cab, or only JMRI to reduce my chances of putting a train where I didn't intend for it to go. Maybe using the other indication options to a central local control panel would be way to go also.

Open to other options, switch types, or general suggestions.

Thanks everyone,
Ryan 


Re: What is a "throat controlled relay"

wirefordcc
 

Hi Tim,

A throat controlled relay is one that is activated by a turnout that is at the throat of a balloon track.  I used them to reverse the polarity of the balloon track depending on which way the turnout is thrown.  For examples, go to my website at:  https://wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#a46

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


Re: What is a "throat controlled relay"

Paul O <pomilian@...>
 

Tim, can you supply a little more context as to where this phrase was used?

Paul O

On Apr 10, 2021, at 1:46 PM, Tim Tedrow via groups.io <Black_dog_42000@...> wrote:

What is a "throat controlled relay"?
Who makes them?

Thanks,
Tim


What is a "throat controlled relay"

Tim Tedrow
 

What is a "throat controlled relay"?
Who makes them?

Thanks,
Tim


Re: Wye Track Reverser

Aaron Splawn
 

Thanks for the quick response Don!  I moved the gaps closer to the turnouts without any problems and everything seems to be working great.  I also tried moving one set outside the turnout, but immediately had a shorting problem; however, the end of the reversing track flows directly into a small switching yard, and then into a balloon loop, so it didn't surprise me. 

Anyhow, now I can pull a normal size narrow gauge train around the layout and through the wye without any issues...

Thanks for the help!  Hopefully it will help another member as well.

Aaron Splawn (Roseville, Ca.)

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