Date   

Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

Puckdropper
 

Tricky! I think I'd just replace all the axle gears to be sure they're OK. I've seen them slide sideways after the gear cracked. You may be able to confirm this with the NMRA gauge, gauge too narrow is probably the one causing the problem.

These GP30s disassemble pretty nicely, so if I didn't see anything else, I'd take it apart and clean and resolder everything.

Are you seeing a stall or a short?

Puckdropper


Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

thomasmclae
 

A couple of things our club has found over the years, now standard practice for all club members to do to their Loks.
1. set CV11 = 0. This is the timeout timer, depending on your system, how many addresses are in the refresh list, etc. Just set to 0.
2. turn off DC. Bit flag in CV29, lets your Lok run on DC layout power. Some systems will trick your Lok into thinking power is DC, then revert to DCC, then dc. Random pauses. Only enable this before going to a DC layout, Otherwise, turn off.
This eliminates most decoder issues.

Check that your solder joints are not cold joints. Always use flux when soldering, even if the solder says it has flux. (NOT ACID FLUX!!!)


Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

john
 

John,
I have found in the past that some engines will not tolerate a rise and some not a dip in the rails. It isn't uncommon were road bed pieces are joined. The other thing that is not uncommon is electrical pickup. Solder a wire to every piece of rail within three feet of the problem area, be it an inch or a meter, and connect them to the feed. Rail Joiners are notorious for bad connections.
John

On Thursday, April 8, 2021, 10:29:05 AM EDT, Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:


John,
  You don't mention it so I have to ask ... have you determined if the problem is
an Open or a Short?
  P2K locos are notorious for 2 problems.

  1) Split axle gears - will usually "thump, thump, thump" going down the track. 
      Sometimes will stop and start.
  2) Incorrectly shimmed worm gears.  Pull that plastic "clip thingey" that holds
      the worm gear in the top of the truck.  Shim one end until it smooths out.
      Most often will show up going down grade with a load behind it - often
      will not show up without a train behind it or on level track (but sometimes).
      This problem is often referred to as "surging" because the train may or
      may not fully stop going downhill.

  Power pickup - perhaps a wire is broken inside the insulation and is making
and not making contact.  Try running the loco with it's progress blocked and
see if you can measure the power to the motor from the decoder.

  I've had P2K locos that ran very poorly - until I cleaned out all of the old
grease in the trucks with isopropyl and re-lubed with Labelle (plastic
compatible - 104?)
  The backs of the wheels can get crud build up on them - clean with isopropyl.

                            - Keep us informed ... JIm


Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

Jim Betz
 

John,
  You don't mention it so I have to ask ... have you determined if the problem is
an Open or a Short?
  P2K locos are notorious for 2 problems.

  1) Split axle gears - will usually "thump, thump, thump" going down the track. 
      Sometimes will stop and start.
  2) Incorrectly shimmed worm gears.  Pull that plastic "clip thingey" that holds
      the worm gear in the top of the truck.  Shim one end until it smooths out.
      Most often will show up going down grade with a load behind it - often
      will not show up without a train behind it or on level track (but sometimes).
      This problem is often referred to as "surging" because the train may or
      may not fully stop going downhill.

  Power pickup - perhaps a wire is broken inside the insulation and is making
and not making contact.  Try running the loco with it's progress blocked and
see if you can measure the power to the motor from the decoder.

  I've had P2K locos that ran very poorly - until I cleaned out all of the old
grease in the trucks with isopropyl and re-lubed with Labelle (plastic
compatible - 104?)
  The backs of the wheels can get crud build up on them - clean with isopropyl.

                            - Keep us informed ... JIm


Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

John Bauchiero
 

JT, 

I don’t know if your issue could be related to what I am experiencing. I have a Walthers PA-1 that has developed a left side wiper problem on the front truck and depending on how the wheels bias side to side in the truck on a curve or turnout will cause the locomotive stop. I found that only one wheel was making contact most of the time and if it shifted side to side it could lose contact momentarily. I really don’t want to get into a total teardown of the drive system so I am avoiding it for now. 

John 

On Apr 7, 2021, at 10:01 PM, John White <jtw37@...> wrote:

I have to apologize cause this is a bit long, but here goes.

So, here is my multi attempt frustration. I just recently purchased a used Proto 2000 GP30 DC locomotive. Nothing wrong with it running. It ran fine. With me converting to DCC a few years ago, I was definitely converting this one. I'm not a newby to converting DC over to DCC. I've got roughly 100 conversions (give or take) to my credit. So it's not like I don't know how to do this. So I converted it and the problems started. I've used Digitrax and NCE basic decoders, so I think that eliminates decoder problems. I soldered the red and black wires to the trucks, as I've done many times before for good contact. The gray to the bottom connection of the motor and the orange to the top. Everything wired like I've done many, many times with no issues. No wires pinched or anything to make it have a problem down the road. I did have to replace two axle gears making sure no contact between the axles. With all that said, here is what I've been dealing with for the last month. Yea, I said month. Mostly to get away from it and the frustration and dive back in.

 

So here is what I'm dealing with. When I run it on my layout from right to left, it wants to stop or at least pause in or out of the curves, but not always. But that is only once in awhile, cause most of the tie it will stop. So, I just touch it as in nugging it very very lightly. I don't hardly even touch it and it resumes running until the next spot it decides to do it again. It did do this four or five times in one complete run. I kept messing, trying to figure it out and with each try, it did get better to the point of only hesitating two or three times but keeps going. I filed, lightly, the frame so the trucks didn't touch the inside of the opening for the trucks. I also added tape on the same area, but it don't seem to have helped. I made some of the changes to the frame tonight with minor improvements. I also put another exact type of drive powered locomotive and it runs very well, with no issues. So I am totally lost as to what could be causing this problem. I'm not stupid, but this one makes me feel that way and I know better. I just can't figure it out. Also, my track is fine as nothing else does this.

 

Think this one over and see if you can help me solve this problem, that shouldn't be this complicated.

Thanks for reading,

JT



Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

Don Vollrath
 

JT, it is indeed a puzzle. if the headlight also blinks when the loco hesitates or stalls the problem
is definitely a loss of rail power getting to the decoder. Make sure you have continuity from both front and rear trucks on each of the red and black power pickup wires. Look for broken wire strands or replace with new flexible #22 - 24 wires. Disassemble the trucks and clean the bearings and power pickup saddles. Lube the bearings lightly with conductive oil. Solder the red and black wires to the decoder. Do NOT use the plastic saddle clips. (Or if you must... be sure to scrape the copper pads clean)

Also be sure the trucks can swivel without causing the wheels to lift. Particularly important if this model uses a hot chassis for one side of the power pickup. Remove any grease buildup at the truck-chassis swivel joints.

DonV


Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

Blair
 

John

Two thoughts on this.

1) I have a p2K SW8 that was giving me fits with stop-start issues.  Turned out one lead from one truck was broken, so it was running on only one truck's connections on the left side.  That made it sensitive to track dirt, etc.  Could you have a bad truck connection, whether it be a cold solder joint, or a bad/dirty wiper?  The fact that it's unidirectional doesn't really fit this possibility, though.

2) Your unidirectional symptom reminds me of a P2K GP7 loco I finally tore down last month.  Not absolutely sure what fixed it, but complete disassembly of the power train to both trucks, disassembly of both trucks, cleaning all parts, and reassembly seems to have pushed the troll back under the bridge.  Oh, and I shimmed the motor-shaft-to-truck worm gear (both ends) so it didn't slop back and forth on direction change.  I had initially presumed I had a cracked axle gear, as that problem exhibits this way some times, but unless it was microscopic all gears were good, and I took a chance and re-used them and it runs fine now.  Your unidirectional problem, linked with the problem appearing at turns, makes me think mechanical binding, so this could be it.

Hope this helps

Blair


I have to apologize cause this is a bit long, but here goes.

So, here is my multi attempt frustration. I just recently purchased a used Proto 2000 GP30 DC locomotive. Nothing wrong with it running. It ran fine. With me converting to DCC a few years ago, I was definitely converting this one. I'm not a newby to converting DC over to DCC. I've got roughly 100 conversions (give or take) to my credit. So it's not like I don't know how to do this. So I converted it and the problems started. I've used Digitrax and NCE basic decoders, so I think that eliminates decoder problems. I soldered the red and black wires to the trucks, as I've done many times before for good contact. The gray to the bottom connection of the motor and the orange to the top. Everything wired like I've done many, many times with no issues. No wires pinched or anything to make it have a problem down the road. I did have to replace two axle gears making sure no contact between the axles. With all that said, here is what I've been dealing with for the last month. Yea, I said month. Mostly to get away from it and the frustration and dive back in.

 

So here is what I'm dealing with. When I run it on my layout from right to left, it wants to stop or at least pause in or out of the curves, but not always. But that is only once in awhile, cause most of the tie it will stop. So, I just touch it as in nugging it very very lightly. I don't hardly even touch it and it resumes running until the next spot it decides to do it again. It did do this four or five times in one complete run. I kept messing, trying to figure it out and with each try, it did get better to the point of only hesitating two or three times but keeps going. I filed, lightly, the frame so the trucks didn't touch the inside of the opening for the trucks. I also added tape on the same area, but it don't seem to have helped. I made some of the changes to the frame tonight with minor improvements. I also put another exact type of drive powered locomotive and it runs very well, with no issues. So I am totally lost as to what could be causing this problem. I'm not stupid, but this one makes me feel that way and I know better. I just can't figure it out. Also, my track is fine as nothing else does this.

 



Re: It shouldn't be doing this.

Andrew Wood
 

Beating bad/warped wheel to wiper contact or a weird bit of junk in there. 
Andrew Wood
Australia 

Sent from Andrew's iPhone

On 8 Apr 2021, at 19:20, John White <jtw37@...> wrote:



I have to apologize cause this is a bit long, but here goes.

So, here is my multi attempt frustration. I just recently purchased a used Proto 2000 GP30 DC locomotive. Nothing wrong with it running. It ran fine. With me converting to DCC a few years ago, I was definitely converting this one. I'm not a newby to converting DC over to DCC. I've got roughly 100 conversions (give or take) to my credit. So it's not like I don't know how to do this. So I converted it and the problems started. I've used Digitrax and NCE basic decoders, so I think that eliminates decoder problems. I soldered the red and black wires to the trucks, as I've done many times before for good contact. The gray to the bottom connection of the motor and the orange to the top. Everything wired like I've done many, many times with no issues. No wires pinched or anything to make it have a problem down the road. I did have to replace two axle gears making sure no contact between the axles. With all that said, here is what I've been dealing with for the last month. Yea, I said month. Mostly to get away from it and the frustration and dive back in.

 

So here is what I'm dealing with. When I run it on my layout from right to left, it wants to stop or at least pause in or out of the curves, but not always. But that is only once in awhile, cause most of the tie it will stop. So, I just touch it as in nugging it very very lightly. I don't hardly even touch it and it resumes running until the next spot it decides to do it again. It did do this four or five times in one complete run. I kept messing, trying to figure it out and with each try, it did get better to the point of only hesitating two or three times but keeps going. I filed, lightly, the frame so the trucks didn't touch the inside of the opening for the trucks. I also added tape on the same area, but it don't seem to have helped. I made some of the changes to the frame tonight with minor improvements. I also put another exact type of drive powered locomotive and it runs very well, with no issues. So I am totally lost as to what could be causing this problem. I'm not stupid, but this one makes me feel that way and I know better. I just can't figure it out. Also, my track is fine as nothing else does this.

 

Think this one over and see if you can help me solve this problem, that shouldn't be this complicated.

Thanks for reading,

JT


It shouldn't be doing this.

John White
 

I have to apologize cause this is a bit long, but here goes.

So, here is my multi attempt frustration. I just recently purchased a used Proto 2000 GP30 DC locomotive. Nothing wrong with it running. It ran fine. With me converting to DCC a few years ago, I was definitely converting this one. I'm not a newby to converting DC over to DCC. I've got roughly 100 conversions (give or take) to my credit. So it's not like I don't know how to do this. So I converted it and the problems started. I've used Digitrax and NCE basic decoders, so I think that eliminates decoder problems. I soldered the red and black wires to the trucks, as I've done many times before for good contact. The gray to the bottom connection of the motor and the orange to the top. Everything wired like I've done many, many times with no issues. No wires pinched or anything to make it have a problem down the road. I did have to replace two axle gears making sure no contact between the axles. With all that said, here is what I've been dealing with for the last month. Yea, I said month. Mostly to get away from it and the frustration and dive back in.

 

So here is what I'm dealing with. When I run it on my layout from right to left, it wants to stop or at least pause in or out of the curves, but not always. But that is only once in awhile, cause most of the tie it will stop. So, I just touch it as in nugging it very very lightly. I don't hardly even touch it and it resumes running until the next spot it decides to do it again. It did do this four or five times in one complete run. I kept messing, trying to figure it out and with each try, it did get better to the point of only hesitating two or three times but keeps going. I filed, lightly, the frame so the trucks didn't touch the inside of the opening for the trucks. I also added tape on the same area, but it don't seem to have helped. I made some of the changes to the frame tonight with minor improvements. I also put another exact type of drive powered locomotive and it runs very well, with no issues. So I am totally lost as to what could be causing this problem. I'm not stupid, but this one makes me feel that way and I know better. I just can't figure it out. Also, my track is fine as nothing else does this.

 

Think this one over and see if you can help me solve this problem, that shouldn't be this complicated.

Thanks for reading,

JT


Re: Walthers switch 942-101 and NCE PowerPro

John Bauchiero
 

Ryan,

I tested Engine Driver to find that I am mistaken. It does not take a response from JMRI to show turnout positions. 

John Bauchiero

On Apr 5, 2021, at 1:24 PM, ryan_henry@... wrote:

I am using Walthers switch machine's 942-101 with fascia control and DCC. From the Procab-R of my NCE PowerPro system i have no trouble throwing the switches either direction. The switches also operate correctly from the fascia control. My problem/question is if I operate the switch reverse from the cab the (now=) position updates correctly (now=rev) if I was the operate the switch back to the normal position from the fascia the cab position still indicates (now=rev). There isn't a real-time status position update on the cab. Is there the ability to have the real-time switch position update on the cab? If I'm out of sight from the fascia control and indication, I would like to know which route on the turnout my train will take by looking and the procab even if has been operated by fascia since the last procab command.

I hope that makes sense.....
Thanks,
Ryan


Re: Walthers switch 942-101 and NCE PowerPro

John Bauchiero
 

Ryan,  

I don’t have a pro cab only a power cab but from my experience with NCE the cab controller only sends commands to the Walters machine. There isn’t any confirmation response to the cab, the cab only remembers the last thing it sent. I believe engine driver through JMRI will receive a response, though I am not 100% sure. 

The machines have multiple feedback options to drive other sets of facia LEDs near your second position or daisy chain the facia controller to a second controller.

John Bauchiero 

On Apr 5, 2021, at 2:28 PM, ryan_henry@... wrote:

I am using Walthers switch machine's 942-101 with fascia control and DCC. From the Procab-R of my NCE PowerPro system i have no trouble throwing the switches either direction. The switches also operate correctly from the fascia control. My problem/question is if I operate the switch reverse from the cab the (now=) position updates correctly (now=rev) if I was the operate the switch back to the normal position from the fascia the cab position still indicates (now=rev). There isn't a real-time status position update on the cab. Is there the ability to have the real-time switch position update on the cab? If I'm out of sight from the fascia control and indication, I would like to know which route on the turnout my train will take by looking and the procab even if has been operated by fascia since the last procab command.

I hope that makes sense.....
Thanks,
Ryan


Walthers switch 942-101 and NCE PowerPro

ryan_henry@...
 

I am using Walthers switch machine's 942-101 with fascia control and DCC. From the Procab-R of my NCE PowerPro system i have no trouble throwing the switches either direction. The switches also operate correctly from the fascia control. My problem/question is if I operate the switch reverse from the cab the (now=) position updates correctly (now=rev) if I was the operate the switch back to the normal position from the fascia the cab position still indicates (now=rev). There isn't a real-time status position update on the cab. Is there the ability to have the real-time switch position update on the cab? If I'm out of sight from the fascia control and indication, I would like to know which route on the turnout my train will take by looking and the procab even if has been operated by fascia since the last procab command.

I hope that makes sense.....
Thanks,
Ryan


Re: Cobalt ADS-2sx Wiring

Allan AE2V
 

Alan,

18 gauge should be fine to operate the Peco motors.  Even 20 would probably be okay.

Allan Gartner


Cobalt ADS-2sx Wiring

alynmar@...
 

I am going to be using Cobalt ADS -SX accessory decoders with my Peco twistlok point motors.  What would be the recommended size wire to use in connecting the two units?  My initial thought was either 16 or 18 gauge stranded wire.

Alan Roman


Re: Converting from DC to DCC on existing HO scale layout

catrevey@...
 

Hi all and thanks for the responses. Based on this I think that I have a better understanding of the turnout issue and my existing layout. I would never attempt to mix DC with DCC as this was not my intent with this layout.
Best Regards,
Charles Trevey 


Re: Converting from DC to DCC on existing HO scale layout

Don Vollrath
 

Charles, you have good start for a DC to DCC conversion. Code 83 Atlas turnouts do generally have a dead frog with sometimes marginal point rail connections. Barely noticeable unless you run DC trains at slower speeds. But putting in a keep-alive to each loco like as you convert to DCC will easily overcome those issues without making any changes to the turnouts and allow you to run DCC trains at realistic speeds.
Have fun!


DonV


Re: Converting from DC to DCC on existing HO scale layout

Allan AE2V
 

Hi Charles,

Your layout sounds like it is in pretty good shape.  If you have some stalling, you may have trouble with sound locomotives.  Upon power interruption, your sound locomotives may cut out and the sound will restart.  A stay alive capacitor will probably take care of that.  This will be easier than trying to modify your turnouts and powering the frogs.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


Re: Converting from DC to DCC on existing HO scale layout

Paul O <pomilian@...>
 

Charles, convert a couple of your locos to DCC; buy your DCC system of choice; remove your DC transformer; install your new DCC system and have fun running your trains!
Please don’t attempt to mix the two systems; use one or the other.

Paul O


Converting from DC to DCC on existing HO scale layout

catrevey@...
 

Hi. As noted above, I am considering converting some of my locomotives to DCC. I have an existing layout where the track is already painted and ballasted and am concerned about whether the turnouts would need to be altered in some way. My track is Atlas code 83 where the turnouts have insulated frogs. The layout runs well on DC with little to no stalling on these insulated frogs. Would the turnout frogs need to be separately powered or would a locomotive decoder with a stay alive capacitor work is this situation? The layout has two rail wiring, with #14 buss wiring and #20 feeder wires spaced every three feet on center. The turnouts are manually thrown. Thanks in advance for any help.
Regards,
Charles  


Re: DCC Specialties PSX-AR

Don Vollrath
 

Re- bypassing a circuit breaker...
Remove the 2 wires from the OUTPUT/TRACK side of the breaker and connect them to the power Input wires of the breaker. Be sure to get the polarity correct to avoid problems at other power districts boundaries.

Technobabble- note that the AR unit will almost always power up with the same polarity result, provided no conflict at isolating gaps. This means that the polarity of the AR section will always be the same after each booster power up and match that same entrance end. So you could more easily reverse the AR section wires to demonstrate that the issue now occurs at the opposite end and that the AR section wiring works as expected.

DonV

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