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Re: Converting from DC to DCC on existing HO scale layout

catrevey@...
 

Hi all and thanks for the responses. Based on this I think that I have a better understanding of the turnout issue and my existing layout. I would never attempt to mix DC with DCC as this was not my intent with this layout.
Best Regards,
Charles Trevey 


Re: Converting from DC to DCC on existing HO scale layout

Don Vollrath
 

Charles, you have good start for a DC to DCC conversion. Code 83 Atlas turnouts do generally have a dead frog with sometimes marginal point rail connections. Barely noticeable unless you run DC trains at slower speeds. But putting in a keep-alive to each loco like as you convert to DCC will easily overcome those issues without making any changes to the turnouts and allow you to run DCC trains at realistic speeds.
Have fun!


DonV


Re: Converting from DC to DCC on existing HO scale layout

wirefordcc
 

Hi Charles,

Your layout sounds like it is in pretty good shape.  If you have some stalling, you may have trouble with sound locomotives.  Upon power interruption, your sound locomotives may cut out and the sound will restart.  A stay alive capacitor will probably take care of that.  This will be easier than trying to modify your turnouts and powering the frogs.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


Re: Converting from DC to DCC on existing HO scale layout

Paul O <pomilian@...>
 

Charles, convert a couple of your locos to DCC; buy your DCC system of choice; remove your DC transformer; install your new DCC system and have fun running your trains!
Please don’t attempt to mix the two systems; use one or the other.

Paul O


Converting from DC to DCC on existing HO scale layout

catrevey@...
 

Hi. As noted above, I am considering converting some of my locomotives to DCC. I have an existing layout where the track is already painted and ballasted and am concerned about whether the turnouts would need to be altered in some way. My track is Atlas code 83 where the turnouts have insulated frogs. The layout runs well on DC with little to no stalling on these insulated frogs. Would the turnout frogs need to be separately powered or would a locomotive decoder with a stay alive capacitor work is this situation? The layout has two rail wiring, with #14 buss wiring and #20 feeder wires spaced every three feet on center. The turnouts are manually thrown. Thanks in advance for any help.
Regards,
Charles  


Re: DCC Specialties PSX-AR

Don Vollrath
 

Re- bypassing a circuit breaker...
Remove the 2 wires from the OUTPUT/TRACK side of the breaker and connect them to the power Input wires of the breaker. Be sure to get the polarity correct to avoid problems at other power districts boundaries.

Technobabble- note that the AR unit will almost always power up with the same polarity result, provided no conflict at isolating gaps. This means that the polarity of the AR section will always be the same after each booster power up and match that same entrance end. So you could more easily reverse the AR section wires to demonstrate that the issue now occurs at the opposite end and that the AR section wiring works as expected.

DonV


Re: DCC Specialties PSX-AR

William Warren
 

Don and to All,

That is the exact problem that I am having. The locomotives travel through the leg of the wye and enter the #6 turnout and set the buzzer off then proceed to the mainline. When then locomotives leave the mainline, travel through the #6 turnout and enter the leg of the wye, it is a seamless transition. Don, how do I bypass the circuit breaker for the mainline that trips and how do I adjust the timing on the AR so it resets in time not to set off the buzzer? I have a VERY hard time reading manuals and then following what they say to do.. I am a watcher and copier person. If I watch you do it, then I can do it.  

On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 9:17 AM Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote:
I suspect that the mainline circuit breaker is tripping. Temporarily bypass that breaker to see if the psx-ar then allows entrance and exit into the wye from either path. If that works the issue is most likely a timing race between breakers. If that doesn’t work suspect faulty wiring or an isolating gap that is not isolated.


DonV





Re: DCC Specialties PSX-AR

Jim Betz
 

William,
  Check the trip current settings (jumpers).  If different change them to
the same, if same change one to less than the other.  This sounds
like one of the breakers is seeing the boundary crossing as a short
for a bit and then 'getting it right'.
  Have you tested this with a loco with sound?  With a keep alive?
Is the keep alive working correctly (do a quarter test)?
                                                                                         - Jim


Re: DCC Specialties PSX-AR

Swanny
 

William, you may be seeing a little discussed issue with the timing between DCC Specialties breakers.  Don touched on it, and you'll find mention of it in the PSX-AR manual.  The fix is to program the PSX to delay slightly to allow time for the PSX-AR to properly "reverse" it's polarity.  Done properly, the PSX doesn't see the potential short and shuts down before the AR has a chance to resolve it, which is supposed to happen.  I don't have the docs handy, nor the time to search, but check the AR manual.
Thanks.
John Swanson 


Re: DCC Specialties PSX-AR

Don Vollrath
 

I suspect that the mainline circuit breaker is tripping. Temporarily bypass that breaker to see if the psx-ar then allows entrance and exit into the wye from either path. If that works the issue is most likely a timing race between breakers. If that doesn’t work suspect faulty wiring or an isolating gap that is not isolated.


DonV


Re: DCC Specialties PSX-AR

William Warren
 

The power for the AR is coming from the NCE Power Pro Booster directly. The power for the mainline Peco #6 is coming from a DCC Specialties circuit breaker.


Re: DCC Specialties PSX-AR

Paul O <pomilian@...>
 

William, are you feeding the input of the auto reverser from a circuit breaker?
I had a similar problem with that type of connection. Try feeding the auto reverser directly from your DCC power supply.

Paul O


DCC Specialties PSX-AR

William Warren
 

I have hooked this AR in my wye, but I am still having problems. I have insulated both legs of the wye coming out of the wye and leading into (2) Peco #6 Electrofrog turnout back to the main line. on one side the transition is seamless. On the other side when the lead locomotive leaves the leg of the wye and moves across the insulated rail joiners into the #6 turnout the short buzzer on the AR goes off and there is a momentary pause in the consist as the locomotives leave the wye leg and enter the mainline. It only happens one that one side not the other. I am stumped to trouble shoot to solve the problem. 

Any and all help will be appreciated.

William Warren


Re: Method - was Re: NCE DCC EB1 Circuit Breakers

Jim Zarnick
 

I have 6 EB1s on my layout with many sound locos and a  lighted passenger train,.  No issues…

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io [mailto:w4dccqa@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 12:16 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] Method - was Re: NCE DCC EB1 Circuit Breakers

 

Tom/all,

  There is one approach to wiring that works - and all the rest don't
work as well.  It goes like this:

  What you wire today - you test today (or first thing tomorrow morning).

  Seems simple enough - but the important part of it is that you end up
with an "ever growing - Working - railroad".
  Although testing with a meter can work the best method is to actually
run a train (loco) over the newly wired track that you just wired.  For
example testing with a meter probably would have shown your EB1
to be "OK" but running a loco across that joint would have shown
the flipped wires right away.  Yes, there are ways to test with a meter
that find everything ... but my experience is that running a loco is
quicker and more positive.  Plus you get to run trains!

  One of the worst practices is to wire for days, weeks, or months ... and
then test.

  Sometimes scenery work can cause a short.  Usually only temporary
but not always.  Scenery is often far after the track wiring.
                                                                                                      - Jim

P.S. My experience is that the EB1 breakers are fine (work well) ... until
       you start to use sound locos or lighted passenger trains.  I use
       only the PSX breakers for this reason.


Method - was Re: NCE DCC EB1 Circuit Breakers

Jim Betz
 

Tom/all,

  There is one approach to wiring that works - and all the rest don't
work as well.  It goes like this:

  What you wire today - you test today (or first thing tomorrow morning).

  Seems simple enough - but the important part of it is that you end up
with an "ever growing - Working - railroad".
  Although testing with a meter can work the best method is to actually
run a train (loco) over the newly wired track that you just wired.  For
example testing with a meter probably would have shown your EB1
to be "OK" but running a loco across that joint would have shown
the flipped wires right away.  Yes, there are ways to test with a meter
that find everything ... but my experience is that running a loco is
quicker and more positive.  Plus you get to run trains!

  One of the worst practices is to wire for days, weeks, or months ... and
then test.

  Sometimes scenery work can cause a short.  Usually only temporary
but not always.  Scenery is often far after the track wiring.
                                                                                                      - Jim

P.S. My experience is that the EB1 breakers are fine (work well) ... until
       you start to use sound locos or lighted passenger trains.  I use
       only the PSX breakers for this reason.


Re: Switch 8 MK2 and Button Board

Tom Grassi
 

Alan,

thanks for the reply.

Yes I know about the extra terminals on the newer version of the Switch 8 MK2

I have had 3 Switch 8 MK2 already and not one of them worked with the button board.  As I said in my first posting the old style switch 8 mk2 works great with button board.

I have been working with Larry the DCCguy  and he has his switch 8 mk2 working fine with just using DC power  but he did say he received a bad batch of Switch 8 MK2 that did not not work.

I am sending my Switch 8 MK2 and Button Board to NCE with the wire I used and button see if they can get it to work.

I have one more Switch 8 MK2 I will place on the layout to be able to switch the tortoise motors using my power cab.   I have the NCE USB board on order so I can connect with my Laptop soon.

I like to push buttons they are nearby and makes it easier than going thru the levels on the power cab I know once the assy is select I can double click on it to toggle the switch.  but when you have many switches the panel board is easier
With that said I need the Switch 8 MK2 new version to work with the ButtonBoard

Thanks
Tom 

--
Tom Grassi
trgrassijr@...


Re: Switch 8 MK2 and Button Board

wirefordcc
 

Hi Tom,

I noticed the extra set of contacts on the Switch8-MkII.  I had initially wired it up wrong when using the Button Board.  Once I realized my mistake, I was fine.  Here is what I wrote about it on my website:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/first_look_NCE.htm#a3

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


Switch 8 MK2 and Button Board

Tom Grassi
 

Hello All,

Been having a problem setting up an NCE Switch 8 MK2 using a Button Board.

I have two SWITCH 8 MK2  both have a button board connected.  One works great push the button the track switches use the power cab and the track switches.  That Switch 8 MK2 happens to be an older version than my second one.
Both were purchased with the last six months.  The new version has an additional terminal with three screws for a relay board .  My original Switch 8 MK2 does not have this. NCE support claims that there is no software difference between the two I found that hard to believe since there is a physical difference in the board.

Both boards are wired the same and are connected to the same buss line 

I have 4 buss lines on my layout each are a district which I use NCE EB1 

Switches are controlled by Tortoise machines are and located in all 4 districts.

I watched several videos on how to hook this up and they all have different ways.  

I am using DCC only on them and not sure why the one works and the other does not work.

Any one out there have any suggestions.

Thank you

Tom





--
Tom Grassi
trgrassijr@...


Re: NCE DCC EB1 Circuit Breakers

Tom Grassi
 

Hello
I was able to get my EB1's setup and working.   The track isolation took a little work and I had to replace some pieces of track the Dremel tools cut the rails no problem but on small pieces of track it tore it off the ties.

Since I had to replace the track I used isolated rail joiners.  couple of the larger sections of track worked well.

The EB1 that was shorting or open was a wiring problem.  I had to flip the two wires on the buss line at the EB1 connection polarity was wrong.

Thanks again for all the responses.
Tom

--
Tom Grassi
trgrassijr@...


LiftGate Reverse Section #file-notice

PTJ27
 

Hi,

I hate to ask another reverse loop question, but before I lay all the track and do the wiring, I want to verify that I have it right. A schematic of my proposed layout has been uploaded to the files section as “20210323 Rehab.pdf”.  If the experts could take a look and comment, I would very much appreciate it.

Some background: The original layout was a folded dog-bone with the reverse section between the upper and lower wyes. Command station is a DB150 and auto-reverse via an AR-1. A recent addition, the section on the right (Engine Terminal & Staging deck), is connected to Loconet, but separately powered via a DCS51 configured as a booster and double gapped at entrance and exit.

I intend to replace the AR-1 with a PSX-ARSC and add another PSX-ARSC and configure the CVs to set one as primary and the other as secondary. My intent is to set the reverse section as the track from the upper wye through the liftgate through the double crossover, and including the leg down to the lower level.

While I haven’t scoped out the detail for the industrial areas, I anticipate that they will all be one-way in.

I appreciate any comments.

Thanks,

Paul Jara

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