Date   

LiftGate Reverse Section #file-notice

PTJ27
 

Hi,

I hate to ask another reverse loop question, but before I lay all the track and do the wiring, I want to verify that I have it right. A schematic of my proposed layout has been uploaded to the files section as “20210323 Rehab.pdf”.  If the experts could take a look and comment, I would very much appreciate it.

Some background: The original layout was a folded dog-bone with the reverse section between the upper and lower wyes. Command station is a DB150 and auto-reverse via an AR-1. A recent addition, the section on the right (Engine Terminal & Staging deck), is connected to Loconet, but separately powered via a DCS51 configured as a booster and double gapped at entrance and exit.

I intend to replace the AR-1 with a PSX-ARSC and add another PSX-ARSC and configure the CVs to set one as primary and the other as secondary. My intent is to set the reverse section as the track from the upper wye through the liftgate through the double crossover, and including the leg down to the lower level.

While I haven’t scoped out the detail for the industrial areas, I anticipate that they will all be one-way in.

I appreciate any comments.

Thanks,

Paul Jara


Re: NCE DCC EB1 Circuit Breakers

Don Vollrath
 

Tom, there is a difference between a “short “ or short circuit that causes a circuit breaker to trip and a loco to stop, and an “open” that simply causes a loco to stop. Be sure to use the proper words.  In your case It sounds like you have an open connection or broken wire, etc. use a voltmeter to help find where and why you loose DCC track voltage. Shorts can be caused by miswiring of the left and right rails as a loco crosses an isolated boundary between sections. Look for voltage across the same rail isolating gaps. It should be minimal. If there is significant voltage there you have a voltage Mis-match in your wiring. 


DonV 

On Mar 27, 2021, at 6:01 AM, digestnoreply@groups.io wrote:


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TOPICS IN THIS DIGEST: 
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1.  NCE DCC EB1 Circuit Breakers (2)
2.  DB210 with DCC++ EX Command Station
MESSAGES: 
.
1a.  
NCE DCC EB1 Circuit Breakers 
From: trgrassijr@...
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 09:57:44 CDT 

Hello All 
New to this Group 
Hope all are safe and well.

I have a small layout and runs 3 trains at the same time.  Have 14 switches
Use Atlas code 83 track on my layout.
I use NCE Power Cab to control my trains.
sometimes a train would derail at a switch and that would short circuit my entire layout. 
So I decided to setup Districts on my layout I have three districts now and forth one in planned.

My layout was all tied together by switches as cross overs.  also have a double cross over on district 2 and 3  

So I had to isolate the track on district 1 from district 2 and 3   in doing that I ran into a few minor issues.  On District 1 I found I now had a dead section of track which worked fine before I isolated the track.
After many trouble shooting step I found I had a bad feeder wire on a piece of track before the dead section.  I think it was shorting in out somehow.  Replacing the wires will be done soon currently I disconnected them from my buss.

My buss is a 14 AWG stranded pair of speaker wire  

Now with the three districts I have three separate buss lines 

My problem now is on District 2 on a section of the track it short circuits and the train stops 

I have feeders before the section and after the section it is a dead spot not sure what to check

I tried to put my layout here but it would not let me.

Any one have any ideas what to check

Thanks

Tom

 




 

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1b.  
Re: NCE DCC EB1 Circuit Breakers 
From: wirefordcc
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 10:50:13 CDT 

Hi Tom,

Can you upload a drawing of your layout to this groups files section?  Show where your problems are. I or someone else should then be able to help you.

Thank you

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC 

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2a.  
DB210 with DCC++ EX Command Station 
From: Blair
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:40:36 CDT 

A friend recently purchased a Digitrax DB210 as someone told him he'd need one for his layout.

He's trying to figure out how to connect it to his DCC++EX base station.

Can he simply use the signals from his rails to feed the Loconet RailSync wires to the booster (he wouldn't need more than 5A, so the DCC++ rail outputs are otherwise unused)?  What about the 'ground' reference booster input?  I suspect that's not necessary as long as he's running just the one booster for the whole layout - unless he uses a PM42, obviously, or other Digitrax device that needs the reference.  Comments?
Blair


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DonV 


DB210 with DCC++ EX Command Station

Blair
 

A friend recently purchased a Digitrax DB210 as someone told him he'd need one for his layout.

He's trying to figure out how to connect it to his DCC++EX base station.

Can he simply use the signals from his rails to feed the Loconet RailSync wires to the booster (he wouldn't need more than 5A, so the DCC++ rail outputs are otherwise unused)?  What about the 'ground' reference booster input?  I suspect that's not necessary as long as he's running just the one booster for the whole layout - unless he uses a PM42, obviously, or other Digitrax device that needs the reference.  Comments?
Blair



Re: NCE DCC EB1 Circuit Breakers

wirefordcc
 

Hi Tom,

Can you upload a drawing of your layout to this groups files section?  Show where your problems are. I or someone else should then be able to help you.

Thank you

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC


NCE DCC EB1 Circuit Breakers

Tom Grassi
 

Hello All 
New to this Group 
Hope all are safe and well.

I have a small layout and runs 3 trains at the same time.  Have 14 switches
Use Atlas code 83 track on my layout.
I use NCE Power Cab to control my trains.
sometimes a train would derail at a switch and that would short circuit my entire layout. 
So I decided to setup Districts on my layout I have three districts now and forth one in planned.

My layout was all tied together by switches as cross overs.  also have a double cross over on district 2 and 3  

So I had to isolate the track on district 1 from district 2 and 3   in doing that I ran into a few minor issues.  On District 1 I found I now had a dead section of track which worked fine before I isolated the track.
After many trouble shooting step I found I had a bad feeder wire on a piece of track before the dead section.  I think it was shorting in out somehow.  Replacing the wires will be done soon currently I disconnected them from my buss.

My buss is a 14 AWG stranded pair of speaker wire  

Now with the three districts I have three separate buss lines 

My problem now is on District 2 on a section of the track it short circuits and the train stops 

I have feeders before the section and after the section it is a dead spot not sure what to check

I tried to put my layout here but it would not let me.

Any one have any ideas what to check

Thanks

Tom

 




 


Re: Remote control of boosters, etc.

Peter Ely
 

 

Another option I’ve used wiring some clubs are delay timers on the AC side. More expensive than Robin’s and the other solutions but perhaps simpler depending on your skills. Of course these are on the more dangerous 120VAC side. ~$15  each . I’ve used items like these for individual boosters, or full nodes, depending on requirements and current capacity.

 

These are transparent to the user and basically when the AC is turned on, these wait a set amount of time before passing the AC through to the device(s).

 

Examples

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M5KH30I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SXB66IS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Cheers, Peter


Re: Remote control of boosters, etc.

thomasmclae
 

The Club layout has a master timer on the layout power supply. All layout electronics, light power converters, Arduinos, etc. on same circuit.
Push button, cycles through 2,3,8,12 hour timeouts.
Layout JMRI PC is on UPS, also on same timer circuit. When powering off, UPS lets computer do controlled power down.
User friendly for club members. Only one timer to turn on. No muss, no fuss.
Thomas
DeSoto, TX


Re: Remote control of boosters, etc.

Robin Becker
 

Blair,

Sounds like a nice project. I've been using cheap ebay TC12000 12v delay relay boards, with In+ connected to Loconet Pin 1 and In- connected to Loconet Pin 2. The boards have a built-in diode on the input so I just add a 10 uF filter cap after the diode to create DC power for the circuit. Downside is that the board draws about 35 mA Railsync when the relay is energized.

Robin

Robin Becker
San Diego, CA

http://drgw.n3ix.com

-----Original Message-----
From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Blair
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2021 8:59 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] Remote control of boosters, etc.

I've built a small detector circuit which detects Railsync on the Loconet cable and, after a programmable delay, energises a relay. That relay turns on my booster at the far end of the basement. A second such circuit enables my collection of UR91/92 and LNWI wireless interfaces mounted at ceiling level in my train room. So, now nothing powers up until my DCS240 is up and "alive". So far this is working quite well. Why did I do this? I disliked having various items scattered around the room that were powered even when I had no intention of running trains.

Comments?

Blair


Remote control of boosters, etc.

Blair
 

I've built a small detector circuit which detects Railsync on the Loconet cable and, after a programmable delay, energises a relay. That relay turns on my booster at the far end of the basement.  A second such circuit enables my collection of UR91/92 and LNWI wireless interfaces mounted at ceiling level in my train room. So, now nothing powers up until my DCS240 is up and "alive".  So far this is working quite well.  Why did I do this?  I disliked having various items scattered around the room that were powered even when I had no intention of running trains.

Comments?

Blair


Re: Combining Multiple Power Bus Wires

Don DeSandre
 

Tam valley makes in in rush current limiter that may help on power up, keeps your breakers from tripping!


From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> on behalf of Daniel via groups.io <danielnapoli@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2021 4:34:39 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Combining Multiple Power Bus Wires
 
Thank you very much Joann and Blair! 
Daniel 

El 13 mar. 2021, a la(s) 15:50, Blair <smithbr@...> escribió:



If you intend to use a lot of locomotives with sound, you'll want to use PSX circuit breakers as they're solid state; I have four PM42 boards in operation, and I have to limit the number of locos in the staging yards, or isolate the locomotives, as on power up the PM42 sections detect the sound locomotives as short circuits, and they start cycle-tripping.  Since these are temporary staging yards, I'm just living with this for now(I just slide a slice of paper under the wheels of some of the locos), but ultimately I'll have to do something to permanently reduce the power-on transient, or replace the PM42 units.

Blair

On 2021-03-13 13:13, JoAnn Donaldson via groups.io wrote:
I agree with the PM42. My layout is split into 4 zones. Each zone is powered by a different output. One other thing that no one has mention and that is you need to have isolated rail joiners between zones. No matter if you use a circuit breaker of a PM42, you can not connect the zones directly to each other.

JoAnn Donaldson

On Saturday, March 13, 2021, 9:44:21 AM CST, Daniel via groups.io <danielnapoli@...> wrote:


Hi, 
Digitrax PM42 may be used as circuit brakers? 
Thank to all by all the help!
Daniel from Argentina 

El 13 mar. 2021, a la(s) 12:03, Wil Davis <wdavis5069@...> escribió:


I agree with the circuit breakers.  The ones I use automatically separate the buses as wires from the booster are daisy chained to the circuit breakers and each breaker has its own output to the bus.



Re: Combining Multiple Power Bus Wires

Daniel
 

Thank you very much Joann and Blair! 
Daniel 

El 13 mar. 2021, a la(s) 15:50, Blair <smithbr@...> escribió:



If you intend to use a lot of locomotives with sound, you'll want to use PSX circuit breakers as they're solid state; I have four PM42 boards in operation, and I have to limit the number of locos in the staging yards, or isolate the locomotives, as on power up the PM42 sections detect the sound locomotives as short circuits, and they start cycle-tripping.  Since these are temporary staging yards, I'm just living with this for now(I just slide a slice of paper under the wheels of some of the locos), but ultimately I'll have to do something to permanently reduce the power-on transient, or replace the PM42 units.

Blair

On 2021-03-13 13:13, JoAnn Donaldson via groups.io wrote:
I agree with the PM42. My layout is split into 4 zones. Each zone is powered by a different output. One other thing that no one has mention and that is you need to have isolated rail joiners between zones. No matter if you use a circuit breaker of a PM42, you can not connect the zones directly to each other.

JoAnn Donaldson

On Saturday, March 13, 2021, 9:44:21 AM CST, Daniel via groups.io <danielnapoli@...> wrote:


Hi, 
Digitrax PM42 may be used as circuit brakers? 
Thank to all by all the help!
Daniel from Argentina 

El 13 mar. 2021, a la(s) 12:03, Wil Davis <wdavis5069@...> escribió:


I agree with the circuit breakers.  The ones I use automatically separate the buses as wires from the booster are daisy chained to the circuit breakers and each breaker has its own output to the bus.



Re: Combining Multiple Power Bus Wires

Blair
 

If you intend to use a lot of locomotives with sound, you'll want to use PSX circuit breakers as they're solid state; I have four PM42 boards in operation, and I have to limit the number of locos in the staging yards, or isolate the locomotives, as on power up the PM42 sections detect the sound locomotives as short circuits, and they start cycle-tripping.  Since these are temporary staging yards, I'm just living with this for now(I just slide a slice of paper under the wheels of some of the locos), but ultimately I'll have to do something to permanently reduce the power-on transient, or replace the PM42 units.

Blair

On 2021-03-13 13:13, JoAnn Donaldson via groups.io wrote:
I agree with the PM42. My layout is split into 4 zones. Each zone is powered by a different output. One other thing that no one has mention and that is you need to have isolated rail joiners between zones. No matter if you use a circuit breaker of a PM42, you can not connect the zones directly to each other.

JoAnn Donaldson

On Saturday, March 13, 2021, 9:44:21 AM CST, Daniel via groups.io <danielnapoli@...> wrote:


Hi, 
Digitrax PM42 may be used as circuit brakers? 
Thank to all by all the help!
Daniel from Argentina 

El 13 mar. 2021, a la(s) 12:03, Wil Davis <wdavis5069@...> escribió:


I agree with the circuit breakers.  The ones I use automatically separate the buses as wires from the booster are daisy chained to the circuit breakers and each breaker has its own output to the bus.



Re: Combining Multiple Power Bus Wires

JoAnn Donaldson
 

I agree with the PM42. My layout is split into 4 zones. Each zone is powered by a different output. One other thing that no one has mention and that is you need to have isolated rail joiners between zones. No matter if you use a circuit breaker of a PM42, you can not connect the zones directly to each other.

JoAnn Donaldson

On Saturday, March 13, 2021, 9:44:21 AM CST, Daniel via groups.io <danielnapoli@...> wrote:


Hi, 
Digitrax PM42 may be used as circuit brakers? 
Thank to all by all the help!
Daniel from Argentina 

El 13 mar. 2021, a la(s) 12:03, Wil Davis <wdavis5069@...> escribió:


I agree with the circuit breakers.  The ones I use automatically separate the buses as wires from the booster are daisy chained to the circuit breakers and each breaker has its own output to the bus.



Re: Combining Multiple Power Bus Wires

Daniel
 

Hi, 
Digitrax PM42 may be used as circuit brakers? 
Thank to all by all the help!
Daniel from Argentina 

El 13 mar. 2021, a la(s) 12:03, Wil Davis <wdavis5069@...> escribió:


I agree with the circuit breakers.  The ones I use automatically separate the buses as wires from the booster are daisy chained to the circuit breakers and each breaker has its own output to the bus.



Re: Combining Multiple Power Bus Wires

Wil Davis
 

I agree with the circuit breakers.  The ones I use automatically separate the buses as wires from the booster are daisy chained to the circuit breakers and each breaker has its own output to the bus.



Re: Combining Multiple Power Bus Wires

Wil Davis
 

I agree with the circuit breakers.  The ones I use automatically separate the buses as wires from the booster are daisy chained to the circuit breakers and each breaker has its own output to the bus.



Re: Combining Multiple Power Bus Wires

David McBrayer
 

Alan,

My first suggestion would be to acquire (if you have not already done so) and install a multi-circuit DCC circuit breaker.  Yes, there will be a cost - paid one time.  A short circuit on the track using your Power Pro without a circuit breaker may be VERY costly.  Per the instructions, ndividually feed each power district from the circuit breaker assembly.  Check out the reliable sources: NCE, the Files section for this Group, and Wiring for DCC web site (W4DCC),  for a start.  I'm having a senior moment re the others--somebody help me out here. 

--Dave McBrayer

On 03/12/2021 3:16 PM, alynmar@... wrote:
I am building a new layout that will be in three sections, each with its own power bus.  What is the best way to combine/connect these wires together with the wires from my 
NCE Power Pro?
Alan

--
Dave McBrayer
Castro Valley, CA 


Combining Multiple Power Bus Wires

alynmar@...
 

I am building a new layout that will be in three sections, each with its own power bus.  What is the best way to combine/connect these wires together with the wires from my 
NCE Power Pro?
Alan


Re: Traditional Long Reversing Sections modified to Very Short Reverser Tracks

Brian Eiland
 

Just found out how to add photos and diagrams in an album,...added some


Added album Reverser Track considerations, long vs short #photo-notice

w4dccqa@groups.io Notification <noreply@...>
 

Brian Eiland <railandsail@...> added the album Reverser Track considerations, long vs short: Looking at alternatives as to where and how long my reverser tracks need to be

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