Date   

Re: Power

James Cunningham
 

Thank You Allan 


Lenz DCC, Power supply- length of run.

Peter Hall <starsearcher@...>
 

Hi All, 
                I move in 2 weeks.   My new bedroom will be 18ft X 18ft ( 5.5m x 5.5m,  NSW Australia).   What with the world events I'm at the planning stage.   I've got a few health issues so I'm on Lock down until such time as there is a Vaccine, long story.  I also have a brain aneurysm and epilepsy and all the joys that brings.   My life is like groundhog day without remembering anything from the previous day.   Yeah I get good support.   So the KISS method on everything.   I model primarily in On30.   I have  Lenz DC, one set 100, and an LV102.   Both power supplies being NCE P514s.  (5 amps-13.8V)  All Locos have sound.   Turnouts (points) will be Caboose Hobbies ground throws, tho it'll be more a scenery railway, 24 inch radius min.   Apart from Locos nothing else will be hooked onto DCC.   The only electric Turnouts will be in the lower storage yard, powered independently  along with signals.  All storage sidings will be insulated so no standing sounds, lights etc.   Basically control of 1 loco at a time,  and followed and driven around.  ( less is more)  It's more about what I can manage.    So I'd split the plan into 2 sections,  one with the LZV100 and the other with the LV102.  Circuit breakers and feeders to each section of track etc.   It would allow for 2 running Loco sets if someone else joined in.   I would like to know how long a run can each power supply manage?   Would getting other more powerful power supplies make any difference to that?  One basic plan is single track, basically in a windy circle however I also wondered if I could figure 8 it( Inverted?)  Tho this would mean 4 sections,  whether I could double the Bus lines,  one feeding the bottom, one feeding the top.   Locos, magnets, reed switches and relays so that power is switched from the bottom to the top?   The power supplies etc would be centered in the plan and bus lines extending from that central point to about 30 ft each way.   I know it sounds like I want the cheapskate method, but Lenz has become very expensive, because people want more control options.   I'm still on Version 3.5 because I just wanted simple operation.  If I had to buy more LV102s  realistically maybe I'm better off to look at something like MRC DCC which is somewhat cheaper, tho again I wouldn't use/need all the added functions.   Any help would be gratefully appreciated.   Thank you.
.


Re: Power

wirefordcc
 

Hi Jimmy,

The Atlas snap switches were typically operated off the AC accessories output of a model train power pack.  Those power packs put out about 16V AC.  So if you still have one of those laying around, you can use that.  If not, Jameco sells a variety of wall transformers.  You can probably find one that puts out more power than you are using.

Be warned that if your Atlas snap switch doesn't flip immediately, DON'T hold down the button!  You can easily melt your snap switch.

Allan Gartner
Wiring For DCC


Re: Help with wiring a reverse loop

Nick Nelson
 

I really appreciate all of the feedback, as this is my first attempt at wiring everything and like I always do, I don't go simple.  I think I understand the wye now, I updated my photo with my understanding of what everyone said.  Please let me know if I am on the right track.
Thanks again
Nick


Power

James Cunningham
 



I have installed 12 atlas snap relays and directional led lights to my atlas turnouts. I've noticed that when i throw a switch the led lights flicker.
Also some of the snap relays don't change the direction lights the little slide arm doesn't slide is my problem not enough power. I'm using a 
ac adaptor 12 volts 1.25 amps .If that is not enough power what should i be using and where can i get it

                                                                                Jimmy


Re: Auto Reverse Question

mgj21932
 

Pete,
Go to tamvalleydepot.com.  Under product tab you will find both the juicers and circuit breaker, as well as servos and controllers with dedicated wiring and actuator switches (that I like) for turnouts.  Website can be challenging to navigate and open all the products tabs, and read all the way to the bottom, to find everything they offer.
Bill

On Monday, April 13, 2020, 03:05:15 PM EDT, Pete via groups.io <kayakerpc@...> wrote:


Also, What is the full name for "TM"" circuit breaker?
Pete
Bellevue, Wa


Re: Auto Reverse Question

mgj21932
 

Pete:

Responses to your 3 questions:

1.  "Are juicers better than the AR modules I bought?"  You say potAto, I say PotAHto.  Everyone has preferences, and I certainly am not in a position to say one is better than the other.  I picked Tam Valley stuff because I was starting from scratch and wanted components I knew would work together, including their system for controlling turnouts that I felt had distinct advantages -- particularly their fascia -mounted switches with integral LED lights for direction.  Fact that relative timing of juicer and circuit breaker work together favored using both together.  

2.   "Is the TM circuit breaker separate from the juicer?"   Absolutely.  And the circuit breaker operates on a timer that is coordinated with (and intentionally slower) than reaction time of the TM juicer.  There are other circuit breakers out there that will do the same thing.  Most likely one made by  the manufacture of your AR switches could be made to work.  But a circuit breaker is critical.  It will protect all your track segments within the protected block (if you have more than one block, you'll want separate circuit breakers for each block) and performs a different function from your AR switches.

3.   "Would the TM  circuit breaker work with my Digitrax ARs the same as with your juicer?"  I believe so; issue is merely one of relative timing.  I would contact Duncan McRee at TV (dmcree@...) with that question,  

Hope this helps,
Bill

On Monday, April 13, 2020, 02:59:41 PM EDT, Pete via groups.io <kayakerpc@...> wrote:


I just bought and installed two Digitrax BXPA1 AR modules.  I dont know anything about juicers, I'll have to do some research.
Are juicers better than the AR modules I bought?
Is the TM circuit breaker seperate from the juicer?
Would the TM  circuit breaker work with my Digitrax ARs tha same as with your juicer?
Thanks for your help,
Pete


Re: Auto Reverse Question

Pete
 

Also, What is the full name for "TM"" circuit breaker?
Pete
Bellevue, Wa


Re: Auto Reverse Question

Pete
 

I just bought and installed two Digitrax BXPA1 AR modules.  I dont know anything about juicers, I'll have to do some research.
Are juicers better than the AR modules I bought?
Is the TM circuit breaker seperate from the juicer?
Would the TM  circuit breaker work with my Digitrax ARs tha same as with your juicer?
Thanks for your help,
Pete


Re: Auto Reverse Question

mgj21932
 

Pete, 
I'm using Tam Valley frog juicers as AR (Hex Juicer handles up to 3 AR sections).  I use the TM circuit breaker because it is "slower" than the ARs so they detect the short and switch cycles/polarity quicker than the circuit breaker can trip.  
I understand a common problem is circuit breakers that trip faster than the AR.  Not good.  Some Circuit breakers can have timing adjusted but that is beyond my plug-and-play ken.  
Bill

On Monday, April 13, 2020, 12:02:40 PM EDT, Pete via groups.io <kayakerpc@...> wrote:


Thanks Bill, like your summary. 
I did all the steps you mention for my ARs with the exception of the "separate circuit breaker between the AR and your power supply & controller".
My layout is HO and I have two AR sections.
What circuit breakers do you recommend?
Are there any other places I should have circuit breakers?


Re: Auto Reverse Question

Pete
 

Thanks Bill, like your summary. 
I did all the steps you mention for my ARs with the exception of the "separate circuit breaker between the AR and your power supply & controller".
My layout is HO and I have two AR sections.
What circuit breakers do you recommend?
Are there any other places I should have circuit breakers?


Re: Help with wiring a reverse loop

wirefordcc
 

Hi Nick,

Unless I missed something, the problem isn't the loop; it is the wye.  You have a couple of simple options.

1.  Make the loop and most of the wye, part of your auto reverse section. The turnout on the right would not be part of the auto reverse section.

2.  You could use a relay attached to the turnout on the right of the wye that will reverse the polarity of the rest of the reverse section.

See my website at:  http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#c3  Wye diagram "B" is the closest one to your situation.  I show the two tracks going into the wye as green/blue can be shorter to the point that only the turnout in green/blue needs to be not reversing.  The part shown in red/black would be your reversing section.

Allan Gartner
Wiring For DCC


Re: Auto Reverse Question

mgj21932
 

Nick,

I am fairly new at this DCC wiring and certainly am not an electronics expert.  But I’ve read a lot and learned even more from this group.  

From what I understand you can wire the AR segment with more than one entrance as long as the entrances are from segments that is not themselves wired for AR.  (Two AR segments back-to-back will fight one another.).  

Segment your power bus with a branch to serve the AR track segment.  Put your AR switch in line on the power bus branch, up-stream from your track feeders for that segment.  Then wire the track feeders normally and your AR will work whichever way a train enters.  

Be sure to have a separate circuit breaker between the AR and your power supply & controller.  

Use insulating connectors at both ends of the AR segment (and at any other point of connection to an adjacent non-AR segment). 

Please, anyone, if I’ve got that wrong, correct me.  No hard feelings here.   Trying to be helpful but testing limits of my knowledge too. 

Bill Demarest


On Apr 12, 2020, at 9:26 PM, Nick Nelson via groups.io <nnelson97@...> wrote:

I am wiring an area of my layout that has an interior loop with multiple entrances.  This loop may need to be reversed depending on the direction in which a train enters it.  I have seen several diagrams showing a single entrance but not one for two.  Is this possible is the first question, and if so, where do i connect my auto reverser or revesers to it.  I am using a digitrax system.  If i could upload a diagram i would.
Thanks
Nick 


Re: Help with wiring a reverse loop

Carl
 

Hello Nick:

To me it looks like the upper left side of the Wye could be the reversing section. Only trains crossing this area can reverse direction.

Pick a point above the Wye and call it "center". Then think of trains circling CW or CWW around this point. Actually with your Wye once a train changes from CW to CCW there isn't a way to reverse to CW without backing up.

Carl.

On 4/12/2020 8:26 PM, Nick Nelson via groups.io wrote:
I have a internal loop that can cause several reverse.  I am looking for some assistance with where to set my auto reverser as well as insulated.  I have uploaded my layout in the photos under Nicks Layout.  The issue in question is the inner loop on the left side.
Thanks
Nick


Help with wiring a reverse loop

Nick Nelson
 

I have a internal loop that can cause several reverse.  I am looking for some assistance with where to set my auto reverser as well as insulated.  I have uploaded my layout in the photos under Nicks Layout.  The issue in question is the inner loop on the left side.
Thanks
Nick


Auto Reverse Question

Nick Nelson
 

I am wiring an area of my layout that has an interior loop with multiple entrances.  This loop may need to be reversed depending on the direction in which a train enters it.  I have seen several diagrams showing a single entrance but not one for two.  Is this possible is the first question, and if so, where do i connect my auto reverser or revesers to it.  I am using a digitrax system.  If i could upload a diagram i would.
Thanks
Nick 


Re: Wiring Peco PL26 Switch to PL11 motor

pekka_groups
 

And I correct myself: Should have read the subject field more carefully: You are using the PL 26, so please ignore previous message, sorry

pekka

Ps: Always remember to put brain into gear before engaging mouth :(

On 2020-04-02 20:33, pekka_groups via groups.io wrote:
Are your other turnouts operating well?

According to this:

https://www.maurienne-trains.com/images/Image/Peco/PL-11%20Instructions.pdf

it apppears that the green wire is the common, not the black. Did you connect the green wire(s) to one output of the CDU and the red and black wires through push buttons to the other output terminal of the CDU?

Did you test the motors before installing them to the turnout? Did the motors throw when you touched the wires with DCUs output wires (green to one output terminal and either red or black to the other terminal)?

Are you using push buttons or toggle switches? The PL-11 point motors should NOT be operated with ordinary toggle switches. Use push buttons or momentary centre-off toggle switches which will return to center-off position when relased. Those are often referred as "mom-off-mom" or "(on)-off-(on)".

The drawing on the instruction sheet is -- I think -- misleading: the PL-26 point operating switch is a strange animal: it is a momentary switch and the common terminal is not the center terminal! If you are using ordinary two way toggle switches, the capacitor will be held discharged and it will not become charged unless it is disconnected (due to release of finger on button, or toggle switches returning to center-off position). If you are using three-way center-off toggle switches, the common terminal is most often the center terminal, and the point motor's red/black wires should be connected to the two outermost connectors. See, if the switch (if you are using a toggle switch) has any markings that would confirm which connector is the common terminal.

I hope this helps.

pekka

On 31.3.2020 16.33, James Cunningham via Groups.Io wrote:
HELP 

I have a Peco three way turnout trying to wire the switch to motor using a CDU and 16v 2amp power supply it does nothing but make noise will not work  can you please tell me what i’m doing wrong

    Thanks 
      Jimmy
On Mar 26, 2020, at 9:24 PM, Michael Maioriello <bronxstrings@...> wrote:

What gauge are you using, also what system do you use. I uses Lenz system 3.6 and must use circuit breakers. The science behind this is that LENZ Invented that’s out there and smart people ran with free technology. I am not up-to date on the newer systems to pick from. Good Luck!

On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 10:18 PM Michael Boyle <boyle10017@...> wrote:
Greetings,
I've read, and been told, to offset the rail gaps between power districts. What is the science behind this and do we do that everywhere (for example in a reversing loop)?
Thanks,
Michael




Re: Wiring Peco PL26 Switch to PL11 motor

pekka_groups
 

Are your other turnouts operating well?

According to this:

https://www.maurienne-trains.com/images/Image/Peco/PL-11%20Instructions.pdf

it apppears that the green wire is the common, not the black. Did you connect the green wire(s) to one output of the CDU and the red and black wires through push buttons to the other output terminal of the CDU?

Did you test the motors before installing them to the turnout? Did the motors throw when you touched the wires with DCUs output wires (green to one output terminal and either red or black to the other terminal)?

Are you using push buttons or toggle switches? The PL-11 point motors should NOT be operated with ordinary toggle switches. Use push buttons or momentary centre-off toggle switches which will return to center-off position when relased. Those are often referred as "mom-off-mom" or "(on)-off-(on)".

The drawing on the instruction sheet is -- I think -- misleading: the PL-26 point operating switch is a strange animal: it is a momentary switch and the common terminal is not the center terminal! If you are using ordinary two way toggle switches, the capacitor will be held discharged and it will not become charged unless it is disconnected (due to release of finger on button, or toggle switches returning to center-off position). If you are using three-way center-off toggle switches, the common terminal is most often the center terminal, and the point motor's red/black wires should be connected to the two outermost connectors. See, if the switch (if you are using a toggle switch) has any markings that would confirm which connector is the common terminal.

I hope this helps.

pekka

On 31.3.2020 16.33, James Cunningham via Groups.Io wrote:
HELP 

I have a Peco three way turnout trying to wire the switch to motor using a CDU and 16v 2amp power supply it does nothing but make noise will not work  can you please tell me what i’m doing wrong

    Thanks 
      Jimmy
On Mar 26, 2020, at 9:24 PM, Michael Maioriello <bronxstrings@...> wrote:

What gauge are you using, also what system do you use. I uses Lenz system 3.6 and must use circuit breakers. The science behind this is that LENZ Invented that’s out there and smart people ran with free technology. I am not up-to date on the newer systems to pick from. Good Luck!

On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 10:18 PM Michael Boyle <boyle10017@...> wrote:
Greetings,
I've read, and been told, to offset the rail gaps between power districts. What is the science behind this and do we do that everywhere (for example in a reversing loop)?
Thanks,
Michael




Re: Wiring Peco PL26 Switch to PL11 motor

James Cunningham
 

Thanks Rob  


Re: Wiring Peco PL26 Switch to PL11 motor

Max Maginness
 

To ask a more basic question

 

Are these HO turnouts?

Are they the type where the blades of  one switch can become jammed against the other set unless it is moved first?

Max

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Sutcliffe
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 4:24 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Wiring Peco PL26 Switch to PL11 motor

 

The other issue these turnouts may have is wheel tread bridging at the frogs.

May have to use the nail polish trick to prevent shorts.



On Apr 1, 2020, at 11:33 AM, Robert Morrison via groups.io <robmorrison42@...> wrote:

 

Jimmy,

The PL-11 instructions seem to have some exceptions regarding 3-ways. The most common problem is not getting the PL-11 properly aligned and set against the ties. I don’t have a 3-way to look at but I think they would be awkward to work with because of the two throw bars close together. 

Try the Peco web site for help

Rob Morrison