Date   

Proto Power West

jwbardzil <jwbardzil@...>
 

I have numerous Proto Power West Chassis and motors for Athern
shells.
I want to wire these for DCC. I do not know how to do this because
the wiring of these is different than most other engines. Can you
help me?


Re: Directional Differences

Mark Gurries
 

Stephen,

Capacitors will never be responsible "directional differences." So
you can forget about removing them. Also, I suspect that if
Rivarossi provided a plug for a decoder they didn't intend for you
to need to remove any components from their circuit board.

Your problems sound mechanical. If you want to prove it to
yourself, remove the decoder and reinstall the dummy plug that came
with the locomotive. Put the locomotive on a track running from a
regular, DC power pack. It will probably perform just as poorly.

Maybe your locomotive just needs to be broken in. Perhaps it has
something else wrong with it. In any event, it isn't a DCC problem
and is beyond the scope of this DCC forum.

Allan


Murphy's Law: A locomotive will always run better in reverse.
I agree with Allan. Try breaking in your locomotive first, under DC if
you must, will remove that as being a factor. Make sure the wheels are
clean again when you get done before you install the decoder..

Allan is also right in that a capacitors do not effect decoder operation
in terms of direction. It can, however, effect decoder operation
overall and independent of direction.

Many locomotives seem to come with some filtering electronics for the
motor. This filter circuit often consist of a ceramic capacitor and one
or two stick inductors. It exist because some locomotive manufacture
are attempting to reduce the "Radio Wave" interference the motors can
create when they run. Think motor noise & static noise you get on the
TV or Radio type of thing. They add this filter to reduce the
interference to comply with some regulation agency that regulates such
things. To be clear, most locomotive manufactures have NO filter
circuit at all.

The filter circuit was intended to be used with the engine while
operating in DC mode as opposed to DCC. As people have found, DCC
decoders were not designed to work with these filters. In many cases it
has lead to erratic operation. The recommendation is that for DCC, at a
minimum the capacitor should be removed completely (clipped out).
Removing the whole filter is required if you use a decoder with BEMF.


Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Linear Technology
Power Supply & Battery Charger Applications Engineer/Manager
---------------------------------------------------------
Model Railroad Club and NMRA DCC presentations are at:
http://www.siliconvalleylines.com/index.html
--------------------------------------------------------
Audio Enthusiast (Love SAE equipment)
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/gurriesm/
----------------------------------------------------------


Re: System One Booster failue

Mark Gurries
 

Our large club layout has two Wangrow dual 5 amp boosters (for a toal
of 20 amps divided around the layout). These have worked flawlessly
for about 4 years. They have responded to occasional shorts properly,
shutting down power until the offending equipment is located and
removed. Last Friday in the middle of routine operations, the red
short indicators came on on one booster box. After a search, no shorts
could be discovered. Then all lights on the booster box went off.
Despite turning off all power and re-booting, the booster did not come
back on. A meter shows power to the input terminals.

Does anyone know what, if anything, blows out internally on these
boosters. Can they be fixed? Or am I, not for the first time,
overlooking something obvious.

If you get no lights and you can measure power at the input terminals,
then something has gone wrong.

Although System One (Wangrow) is out of business, service can be
obtained. Karl Kobel of System One stated that Ron Sebastian of
DesPlains Hobbies has agreed to be the repair depot of existing System
One equipment.

Suggest people give him a call to check out the service.

Des Plaines Hobbies
(847) 297-2118
1468 Lee St., Des Plaines, IL 60018

http://www.desplaineshobbies.com/

Do not contact NCE (North Coast Engineering) for repair. They have NO
obligation. legal or otherwise, to support System One. The two
companies are seperate entities.

If you wish to purchase replacement equipment, NCE would be your only
choice. However the replacment product will not be the exact same
product.

http://www.ncedcc.com/

You can get more information about System One from the

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NCE-SYS1/

group.

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Linear Technology
Power Supply & Battery Charger Applications Engineer/Manager
---------------------------------------------------------
Model Railroad Club and NMRA DCC presentations are at:
http://www.siliconvalleylines.com/index.html
--------------------------------------------------------
Audio Enthusiast (Love SAE equipment)
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/gurriesm/
----------------------------------------------------------


Re: DCC have to be controlled by computer?

Mark Gurries
 

snorring@aol.com wrote:

dcc doesn't have to be controlled by a computer.
True. No computer "PC" is needed.

What is called the command station is actually a computer design
specifically to run DCC and nothing else. You simply do need to know it
is a computer and simply call it by it purposeful name. Command
Station.

What is possible on some brands of DCC systems is a connection to a
common PC computer to enhance your DCC experience. Applications such as
signalling or programming complex decoders can be used. But again to
run and program your engines "decoders", you do NOT need it.

DCC does require a power supply that is DCC not DC.
I think there is some terminology confusion here.

DCC is a control system. It has nothing to do with power.

DC is a power source/supply who's voltage has a constant polarity

AC is a power source/supply who's voltage has a constantly changing
polarity.

All DCC systems require some form of power supply to power them.

Some DCC systems do not come with a power supply and allow you to use
your old DC power pack to act as a TEMPORARY power supply. It is
expected that you would purchase a power supply the meets the
specification as shown in your DCC manual. Doing so otherwise will
restrict your ability to get the most out of your DCC system.

Some DCC systems do come with a power supply in the package which
simplifies your life in terms of getting up and running. Typically
these are entry level system.

The type of power supply that can be used with DCC systems can
potentially vary. Consult with your manual. However, to the best of my
knowledged, all DCC system can take advantage of both DC or a AC power
source voltages on its input. Circuits inside these system (rectifiers)
make it possible. The idea is based in the interest of giving you
maximum flexibility and cost saving in finding a suitable power supply.
It also makes the input power connection to the DCC system simple and
accident proof in terms of wire connection polarity.

By all means check out the Wiring for DCC section on beginners for more
information.

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Linear Technology
Power Supply & Battery Charger Applications Engineer/Manager
---------------------------------------------------------
Model Railroad Club and NMRA DCC presentations are at:
http://www.siliconvalleylines.com/index.html
--------------------------------------------------------
Audio Enthusiast (Love SAE equipment)
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/gurriesm/
----------------------------------------------------------


Re: slow speed at grades

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

You mean other than doing like they do on the prototype - increase the
throttle.

SOME decoders have "back EMF compensation." This is also known
as "speed compensation" and a few other similar sounding names. Most
decoders do not have this feature. You will have to examine the
features for your decoder to determine if it has this feature.

Back EMF compensation senses the load put on a locomotive when it goes
up a grade and increases the power to the motor to compensation.
Likewise, when going down a grade, it senses this, too, and decreases
the power to the motor.

If your decoder has back EMF compensation, it usually comes from the
factory deactivated. You will need to activate it. How you activate
it varies with the manufacturer and the decoder. Usually it is as
simple as setting a CV.

Many decoders have variable back EMF compensation. You can set these
decoders anywhere from no compensation to maximum compensation. At
maximum compensation, you will see very little, if any, speed change
when the train is on a grade. How much compensation is up to you.
Try a value and see how the train reacts.


slow speed at grades

ed_gaws
 

hi all,
how do i fix speed drop at grades


System One Booster failue

p.reardon@sbcglobal.net <p.reardon@...>
 

Our large club layout has two Wangrow dual 5 amp boosters (for a toal
of 20 amps divided around the layout). These have worked flawlessly
for about 4 years. They have responded to occasional shorts properly,
shutting down power until the offending equipment is located and
removed. Last Friday in the middle of routine operations, the red
short indicators came on on one booster box. After a search, no shorts
could be discovered. Then all lights on the booster box went off.
Despite turning off all power and re-booting, the booster did not come
back on. A meter shows power to the input terminals.

Does anyone know what, if anything, blows out internally on these
boosters. Can they be fixed? Or am I, not for the first time,
overlooking something obvious.


Re: Directional Differences

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Stephen,

Capacitors will never be responsible "directional differences." So
you can forget about removing them. Also, I suspect that if
Rivarossi provided a plug for a decoder they didn't intend for you
to need to remove any components from their circuit board.

Your problems sound mechanical. If you want to prove it to
yourself, remove the decoder and reinstall the dummy plug that came
with the locomotive. Put the locomotive on a track running from a
regular, DC power pack. It will probably perform just as poorly.

Maybe your locomotive just needs to be broken in. Perhaps it has
something else wrong with it. In any event, it isn't a DCC problem
and is beyond the scope of this DCC forum.

Allan


Murphy's Law: A locomotive will always run better in reverse.


Directional Differences

stephenaslancaster <stephenlancaster@...>
 

Hello I am New to to this group
I have a new Rivarossi Heisler locomotive,into which I plugged
a Digitrax dz143pn decoder. In reverse it runs great,however in
forward it runs poorly,it jerks along and takes more voltage to get it
to start.
I have asked in other forums and got some feedback about the circuit
board ie cutting out some caps,but have upon examination that it has
alot of surface mount componates. Any ideas?
Thanks Stephen


Re: DCC have to be controlled by computer?

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

You might find this webpage on DCC for Beginners interesting:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/intro2dcc.htm

Allan


--- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, "oreboats" <adam@r...> wrote:
Does DCC have to be controlled by a computer? Can you use a normal
DC
power supply and the have an encoder send the signals? How hard is
it
to program DCC?


Re: Dual gauge wiring for DCC

Jan Frelin <jan.frelin@...>
 

Greg, have you seen Tillig products? They seem close to what you want. (H0e
= H0n30).
/Jan

At 16:16 2005-06-10 +0000, Greg Codori wrote:

--- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, "wirefordcc" <wire4dcc_admin@c...>
wrote:
Greg,

I'm pretty well caught up with things, so I'll try to add material on
dual gauge wiring this summer.

I will go visit a layout with dual gauge track and see what was done
or should have been done. Then I will make some drawings as needed.

What brand of turnouts are you using?

Allan
I haven't decided what brand to use, but most likely will either hand
lay or use a peco switch (n scale) and build a HO/HOn30 switch out of
it. My intention was to have the standard gauge continue straight and
have the HOn30 deviate off to the left. I thought an easy solution was
to use a left hand switch (n scale) and add the standard gauge track to
it.

Does that make much sense?

Greg




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DCC have to be controlled by computer?

oreboats <adam@...>
 

Does DCC have to be controlled by a computer? Can you use a normal DC
power supply and the have an encoder send the signals? How hard is it
to program DCC?


Re: DCC have to be controlled by computer?

snorring@...
 

dcc doesn't have to be controlled by a computer. DCC does require a pwer
supply that is DCC not DC.


Re: Dual gauge wiring for DCC

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Greg,

Regarding your idea for your trackwork, try asking your question on a
Yahoo group on narrow gauge. I think I've seen a way for a narrow
gauge track to diverge from a standard gauge track without using a
turnout. I'm sure you can get good advice about your dual gauge needs
and how you should approach it on a narrow gauge chat group. I don't
want to try to give advice on a topic I know little about.

I'm going to visit my friends dual gauge layout and study it. Look
for dual gauge information on my website later this summer. Go to
http://home.comcast.net/~wire4dcc_admin and sign up for update
announcements. When I update the Wiring For DCC website, you will
receive an announcement.

Allan


Re: Dual gauge wiring for DCC

gcodori
 

--- In WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com, "wirefordcc" <wire4dcc_admin@c...>
wrote:
Greg,

I'm pretty well caught up with things, so I'll try to add material on
dual gauge wiring this summer.

I will go visit a layout with dual gauge track and see what was done
or should have been done. Then I will make some drawings as needed.

What brand of turnouts are you using?

Allan
I haven't decided what brand to use, but most likely will either hand
lay or use a peco switch (n scale) and build a HO/HOn30 switch out of
it. My intention was to have the standard gauge continue straight and
have the HOn30 deviate off to the left. I thought an easy solution was
to use a left hand switch (n scale) and add the standard gauge track to
it.

Does that make much sense?

Greg


Re: Dual gauge wiring for DCC

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Greg,

I'm pretty well caught up with things, so I'll try to add material on
dual gauge wiring this summer.

I will go visit a layout with dual gauge track and see what was done
or should have been done. Then I will make some drawings as needed.

What brand of turnouts are you using?

Allan


Dual gauge wiring for DCC

gcodori
 

Hi, first post...

Are there any references for wiring dual gauge trackage (switches) to
be DCC friendly?

I have a layout design where a narrow gauge line deviates from the dual
gauge trackage (the dual gauge trackage becomes seperate lines of
standard and narrow gauge).

Any ideas on wiring something like this?

Thanks!


Re: Multiple booster power districts

Mark Gurries
 

Digitrax recommends "Home Ground" wiring...tying all the booster grounds
together. Loconet also forms a home ground too in parallel. But it is
not intended to carry any current. Without the home ground wiring, the
boosters will still work with asymmetrical pickup locomotives, BUT your
running a risk since your depending on the very small low current
loconet ground wires to carry very high booster currents! Not design
for or recommended!


Hope this helps.



I have a question about multiple boosters and locomotives, especially
brass steam locomotives, at the boundary between booster power
districts. My question is: how do I prevent a locomotive with
asymmetric power pick up (like most brass steam) from stalling at the
power district boundary? If I am using all Digitrax boosters and have
the ground pins all connected, does this eliminate the problem?

On my layout, I have a DCS100 which is powering everything except the
engine terminal, which is powered by an Easy DCC booster. The Easy
DCC booster doesn't have a ground pin like the Digitrax does. When a
steamer hits the boundary it stops.

As far as I can tell the DCS100 establishes the ground at half the DCC
voltage with 4 diodes in series connected in reverse polarity to the
DCC track signal between rail A and B and the ground pin is connected
between diodes 2 and 3. I once tried using the same scheme on the
Easy DCC booster and it somewhat mitigated the problem for low current
engines because while they were crossing the boundary they saw half
voltage and continued to run. But the high current engines will still
stall at slow speed. Would an all Digitrax system prevent this
problem or have I understood the design correctly and the same problem
will still exist?

Dale.




http://www.WiringForDCC.com
Yahoo! Groups Links






Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Linear Technology
Power Supply & Battery Charger Applications Engineer/Manager
---------------------------------------------------------
Model Railroad Club and NMRA DCC presentations are at:
http://www.siliconvalleylines.com/index.html
--------------------------------------------------------
Audio Enthusiast (Love SAE equipment)
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/gurriesm/
----------------------------------------------------------


Re: Multiple booster power districts

wirefordcc <wire4dcc_admin@...>
 

Dale,

I'm back from the convention and ran the test as promised. I ran
several Rivarossi locomotives that have asymetrical power pickups and
confirmed that all ran without any problem, even at very slow speeds,
between booster districts. Both boosters used in the test were
Digitrax boosters.

Allan


Re: DCC wiring

Vollrath, Don <dvollrath@...>
 

You don't really need a separate booster for just the engine service / turntable area just because it is 35 ft away. Power that section with a separate bus run from the existing booster or simply extend the existing DCC bus along the track leading to that area of the layout. But use twisted pair wiring, 14-18 ga, and put an R-C terminator at the far end. {0.1 MFD 50V, 150 ohms 2W)

Using the rubber/plastic insulated rail joiners for gapping rail is a good idea. Easier than cutting rail. Provides a positive 'plug' to prevent the gap from closing.

But learn how to solder small (20-22 ga) feeder drop wires to the rail. Use plenty of these to conduct rail current so that you almost never rely on a slip-joint type rail joiner between rail sections to conduct current.

DonV

-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of zekda99
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 1:17 AM
To: WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WiringForDCC] DCC wiring


Hi I am new to this, snd trying to figure out how to wire a new setup.
using prodigy Advance system.

A couple of things I'd like to know:

1: do I need a booster if next area is 35 ft away, this is the
turntable area basically only...yards are only 10' away. (from main)

2: I am using plastic inusulators instead of cutting track and
soldering (am using track wire connectors)

3: Do have a tad of experience with electroncis due due to 20 yrs
working with the Cdn air force....(you know the ones that use duct
tape and lockiwire to hold things together)

4: main thing is i want to put in a lighting system at my control
panel with a green light when all is okay but switching to a red lite
when there is a short. 0AND I HAVE REAL PROPLEMS FINGING DECODERS TO
FIT BACHMANN, PECO EETC ENGINGES.....NO SOUND INFOLVED...'


PLEASE TRY TO HELP ME AS IT COSTS A FORTUNE FOR EVERY SCREWUP I MKE..


mT





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