Date   
Re: Wiring for DCC Update Announcemen

Gary Chudzinski
 

Alan,

On your website, “Wiring for DCC, Cutting Power to Yard or Roundhouse Tracks,” you state the following:  “Radio Shack carried a 12 position rotary switch, but it was only rated for 300mA. It might work for a while, but eventually may fail due to pitting of the contacts when used at higher currents”

In the smaller scales, where the locomotive draw current less, would it not be helpful to install capacitor(s), maybe  .01 - .05 ufd, across the contacts of a rotary switch?  Seems like I read something about this year’s ago that it can reduce/eliminate contact arcing, which causes pitting.  Or, am I mistaken about this procedure or capacitor value?  Maybe having a senior moment????

Enjoy your website....great information for the DCC learning curve!

Gary Chudzinski

Re: Wiring for DCC Update Announcemen

Don Vollrath
 

What Allan said is correct. Adding a capacitor across the switch may also further degrade the lifetime as the charged capacitor becomes short circuited when the switch closes. 

A capacitor across switch or relay contact is intended to act like a snubber to reduce sparking in circuits where the load is highly inductive, like a relay or magnet coil in DC circuits. 
DonV 

Re: Wiring for DCC Update Announcemen

Max Maginness
 

Arcing effects are less likely on DCC that with the low voltage  DC that the switch ratings are usually given for, because any arc is interrupted when the DCC voltage goes to zero as the polarity reverses.

That aside,  an 0.05 ufd capacitor has only about 400 ohms impedance at the 8 kHz fundamental frequency of the DCC waveform so if present across open contacts will leave the power still slightly on.

 

Max

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Chudzinski
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2019 5:12 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Wiring for DCC Update Announcemen

 

Alan,

On your website, “Wiring for DCC, Cutting Power to Yard or Roundhouse Tracks,” you state the following:  “Radio Shack carried a 12 position rotary switch, but it was only rated for 300mA. It might work for a while, but eventually may fail due to pitting of the contacts when used at higher currents”

In the smaller scales, where the locomotive draw current less, would it not be helpful to install capacitor(s), maybe  .01 - .05 ufd, across the contacts of a rotary switch?  Seems like I read something about this year’s ago that it can reduce/eliminate contact arcing, which causes pitting.  Or, am I mistaken about this procedure or capacitor value?  Maybe having a senior moment????

Enjoy your website....great information for the DCC learning curve!

Gary Chudzinski

Re: Wiring for DCC Update Announcemen

Gary Chudzinski
 

Good info guys...thanks!

Gary C

DCC Wiring Problem on a Small N Scale Layout

thoms.chesley@...
 

Good Afternoon

I am relatively new to DCC and I have a few questions about wiring my layout. Here are the details of what I have done:

1. 3'x10' n scale unitrack layout (double tracked with several spurs) with number 6 turnouts (17 of them).
2. Turnouts are isolated with Kato plastic joiners at the diverging tracks of the turnout and then powered by Kato feeders (24 gauge wire).
3. My Kato feeder wires are going to be stripped of insulation, folded back to create a thicker wire, tinted with solder and then soldered to spade connectors.
4. All feeders are connected to 2 separate terminal barrier strips.
5. The bus wires (16 gauge stranded wire; 2 foot long sections) run from the barrier strips (one for each track) and connect to an NCE Power Cab DCC system.

I am trying to divide and conquer in a logical manner as I have already run into the issue of not being able to get a DCC locomotive running with even one feeder connection despite knowing that the feeders (I tested a couple of them randomly) will power a given section of track using DC. What am I missing here? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

T.-C.

Re: DCC Wiring Problem on a Small N Scale Layout

Don Vollrath
 

You DO have a DCC decoder in the test loco... right??
1. Use a separate piece of track wired directly to the DCC bus according to the NCE instructions for wiring it up and make sure you can control the loco as expected using your NCE PowerCab. If this doesn't work review your wiring of the Power Cab system and make sure you are addressing the loco with the correct DCC loco address. (see #2) If #1 works then the problem is somewhere in your layout track connections, etc. So...
2. Use a voltmeter and measure the AC voltage across the track section where the loco does not respond to DCC commands. There should be 10-16 Vac as measured on the track (the DCC power). Work your way out from the PowerCab Panel and make sure you have the Power Cab plugged into the correct RJ connector and are using the correct curly vs flat cord.

DonV 

Re: DCC Wiring Problem on a Small N Scale Layout

Greg Elmassian
 

Any updates?

Re: DCC Wiring Problem on a Small N Scale Layout

thoms.chesley@...
 

Hi Greg

Thank you for your suggestions. I tested my locomotives and DCC system on a test track. Everything works. I have also made progress with my layout and I am happy to report that the sections of track I have installed and wired are working quite well with my DCC locomotives. I am being patient and meticulous to avoid any further issues. Thanks
Alan

Re: DCC Wiring Problem on a Small N Scale Layout

Greg Elmassian
 

Great news! Sometimes it pays to take a step back to a more basic configuration.

Glad it is working.

Greg

Electro frog not modifying for dcc

Richard_vanRaay
 

Does anyone leave them as they come. It says on the back it is possible. I have modified several but with the extension I am thinking of using them as purchased. At least until I have my track planned better.

Re: Electro frog not modifying for dcc

rsauerbrun
 

Hi Richard,

Yes, our club uses our Peco Electrofrogs right out of the box on our large DCC layout. In the past, we tried several of the "recommended" modifications to Peco's design, but found that these actually made successful use of the turnout more difficult. In the end, we trusted the Peco engineers more than all the folks that think they have "improvements".

That being said, it is very important that you wire the frog properly. We have found that relying on the points to provide the necessary power to all rails works consistently (power routing). Once they get a little dirty, the locos start stalling.

Another Richard

Re: Electro frog not modifying for dcc

Chuck Hart
 

I now have 72 Electro Frog code 55 turnouts installed on my DCC N Scale layout. I have not made any modification to any of them. Been operating for about 10 years now with no problems.
www.pce.cc .
Regards, Chuck

Multiple feeders vs Ground Loops

Don Vollrath
 

This subject comes up every once in a while in various forums.

The whole purpose of providing multiple connections to model RR track rails is to provide a preferred low electrical resistance path for current to flow instead of relying on potentially poor electrical connections at rail joiners or even that of the rail itself (copper vs steel/brass/nickel rail). Providing rail feeder drops at each piece of rail connected to adequately sized DCC (or even DC) bus feeder wiring back to the power booster (or DC throttle) does just that. This gives the best possibility of problem free operation of our trains.

'Ground loop' problems are somewhat different whereas multiple electrical paths, each with a different amount of electrical resistance, exist and tends to allow or force unwanted electrical currents to flow in the wiring between common or 'grounding' connections supposedly of the same potential. It is the unwanted current flow in those paths, and the difference in voltage drop due to the electrical resistance (& impedance at higher frequencies) that causes a disturbance of the voltage signals available at any given point along the wiring. ie - The signal ghosting problem of multiple paths as Mark Gurries explains... For DCC, a long continuous loop of track and/or bus wiring can form multiple signal length timing connections and become a problem for DCC signaling reception at a given point, but only after the loop starts to exceed several hundred feet in total linear circumference. [Somewhat wiring style dependent.] Simply breaking up the track into typical isolated power or booster or even AR section districts and providing DCC bus wiring as a 'T' from the booster rather than a continuous loop tends to avoid those issues.

DonV  

Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

George Galyon
 

You can use a Shinohara double crossover on a DCC layout without any modifications.  See article on "double crossovers" on "Wiring for DCC" web site.  The article is a little hard to find.  You can google "Wiring for HO double crossovers Tutorial"-G.T. Galyon and it should pop up for you. 

Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

wirefordcc
 

George’s article on double crossover’s is at:  http://www.wiringfordcc.com/DoubleCrossover_Galyon.pdf

 

Allan

Wiring For DCC

 

Allan Gartner  WiringForDCC.com 

        

 

new peco 83 electrofrogs

ChooChoo Johnson <cdjohn1523@...>
 

Peco DCC wiring experts,

Q1:  I have the newer PECO SL-E8361 electrofrogs.  I noticed the frog wire slots under the frog appears to be different that the one in Mr. Gartner's and many other video/pics on the internet.  I see many are routed in the slots, but is that really necessary, since current from that wire passes through the frog without having to loop it through the slots?
Q2:  What's the purpose of those slots anyway?

Thanks modelers.
--
ChooChoo Johnson

insulfrog or electrofrog ?

staceyatvt@...
 
Edited

iam building a peco ho code 100 dcc layout  some of the turnouts i will use to enter the fright yard  and exit the yard and some will be used  in the fright yard 
ok question what turnout is better to use the insulfrog or the electrofrogs for dcc
thanks

Re: insulfrog or electrofrog ?

wirefordcc
 

Stacey,

You can always use Electrofrogs.  Insulfrogs may not work well with short wheelbase locomotives or those that only have a few wheels of pick-up on each side.  Insulfrogs are a little simplier to wire up.  So if you want to use Insulfrogs, I'd buy one of the highest size number you intend to use and try it out with all your favorite locomotives.  You still might have a problem with a locomotive you buy in the future.

You can also use Electrofrogs and not wire the frog unless you find you need to.  Note:  The size the dead area on an unpowered Electrofrog is a little larger than that of the Insulfrog.  If you do this, be sure to drop the frog wire down through the benchwork in case you need it in the future.

I use the Electrofrogs so I never have to worry about dead frogs.  You can learn more about Electrofrogs and Insufrogs on my website at: 

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_peco.htm

Allan
Wiring For DCC

Re: insulfrog or electrofrog ?

Clark Propst
 

Electrofrogs were great back in DC days, because they killed power to the track NOT selected. With DCC insulfrogs are the way to go. They’re like the old “Snap track switches” no worries about shorting when switches face each other at sidings and such.
 
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
 

From: staceyatvt@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 6:00 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] insulfrog or electrofrog ?
 
iam building a peco ho code 100 dcc layout  some of the turnouts i will use to enter the fright yard  and exit the yard and some will be used  in the fright yard
ok question what turnouts shuold i use the insulfrog or the electrofrogs
thanks

Re: insulfrog or electrofrog ?

Doug Wagner
 

After trying Insulfrogs on our club's layout, we have decided to convert them to Electrofrogs as we hate having "dead" sections of track!

But that's just us......

Doug Wagner
Bakersfield, California

In a message dated 09/18/19 16:08:08 Pacific Standard Time, staceyatvt@... writes:

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: change part of the question from what should i get to what is better]

iam building a peco ho code 100 dcc layout  some of the turnouts i will use to enter the fright yard  and exit the yard and some will be used  in the fright yard 
ok question what turnout is better to use the insulfrog or the electrofrogs for dcc
thanks