Date   

Re: Controlling HO DCC system MTH ?

Mark Cartwright <marcdecapri@...>
 

Morgan and all....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udyy2gQyNso
Listen to this carefully about people going off in many directions.
and NOT being Focused.
====
Apple was like this circa 1997 with Open Doc...a program which was NEEDED for a Macintosh 9500 computer to get onto the internet... but it didn't work. I know > I stupidly took a On Line History Class which I could not complete....Cause of Open Doc not being compatible with JAVA.
But I digress...
What the NMRA essentially did with DCC is Non Sequitur.
Yes, a Volunteer Organization which did set BASE Standards of Handshaking Code.
Then by allowing the many manufacturers to develop their own proprietary codes...put the DCC (American) Market in disarray...

They created Committees which don't actually talk to one another.
This is NOT the first time the NMRA has done this.
Read down to Question #5 .....
http://www.railwayeng.com/rrhints.htm

and Yes the answer.
Two Committees which for political reasons were allowed bad management.
Here's the video...Trying to speed match a train while being shackled to two other guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okl8ESz01SY
======
If you follow NMRA specifications at 100%....Your layout will fail.
Which has been good for me ...Cause I buy defunct/failed layouts often at 10 cents to the MSRP+ Dollar.
Instead use for example BNSF or UP specifications and give a look see to the European World of DCC.
My apologies, if this seems like a Discussion...but I felt an answer to all these woes should be spoken.
:)) Mark

================================
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_R5fK73Eaw
I created a NOMAD Headquarters Building for my N Scale Layout....Based on this Model 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6214TMDJf4
The National Organization of Modelers and Ardained Designers. (NOMAD)
Cause...The way you guys write about some of these guys, you would think they are ordained by God.
Are you Ordained (Ardained)?
But I know for a fact some John Armstrong designs maybe good at O Scale but they don't work in the confines of N Scale.,
There are some decoders in this world...Which simply do not work on any DCC System even their own to the praises their Advertising Department bestowed upon them.
But i no longer care...I standardized with ESU.


Re: Controlling HO DCC system MTH ?

whmvd
 

THing is, development doesn't happen in a way that helps your view of it. There isn't a standards body that sets standards, after which everyone starts building the same stuff. What happens is that stuff gets developed, and the standards body comes in afterwards looking at raising the best and most consistent practices to a standard, but: the non-standard stuff already exists, ie being sold, and can be very good. Just not compatible.

You are very right in manufacturers getting the message whenb people vote with their wallet. Problem is, a lot of those votes come in before the customers are well enough informed to buy what's best for them.

Ah, economics. You can't beat economics, but sometimes you might want to.
Wouter


On Thu, 30 May 2019 at 16:25, PennsyNut <pennsynut@...> wrote:
Back in the dark ages, our USGovt chose to force the auto mfgrs to standadise the shift quadrant on auto trans to put neutral between drive and reverse. Do you remember that? Well, the NMRA made a feeble attempt to standardize DCC. But the mfgrs apparently think they have better ways of doing things. IMHO I don't see why they do! What is wrong with setting reasonable standards so that we, the poor people (and I refer to the majority of modellers) can purchase a command station and a decoder and expect them to work together. It's bad enough that the decoders are different, but now we have DCS from MTH and it is sole proprietary. Heck even the 3-railers have Lionel and MTH also. And all we have to do is: Refuse to buy MTH. And they will get the message. If their sales drop, who know what they might do? Maybe go away! This business of forcing us to purchase additional equipment to change CV's? Need a booster to change some. Sorry for my rant.
Morgan Bilbo, new to DCC


Re: Controlling HO DCC system MTH ?

Lee Phillips
 

I agree 100%  
Shame the computer people don't get it either 
Lee

On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 11:25 AM PennsyNut <pennsynut@...> wrote:
Back in the dark ages, our USGovt chose to force the auto mfgrs to standadise the shift quadrant on auto trans to put neutral between drive and reverse. Do you remember that? Well, the NMRA made a feeble attempt to standardize DCC. But the mfgrs apparently think they have better ways of doing things. IMHO I don't see why they do! What is wrong with setting reasonable standards so that we, the poor people (and I refer to the majority of modellers) can purchase a command station and a decoder and expect them to work together. It's bad enough that the decoders are different, but now we have DCS from MTH and it is sole proprietary. Heck even the 3-railers have Lionel and MTH also. And all we have to do is: Refuse to buy MTH. And they will get the message. If their sales drop, who know what they might do? Maybe go away! This business of forcing us to purchase additional equipment to change CV's? Need a booster to change some. Sorry for my rant.
Morgan Bilbo, new to DCC


Re: Controlling HO DCC system MTH ?

PennsyNut
 

Back in the dark ages, our USGovt chose to force the auto mfgrs to standadise the shift quadrant on auto trans to put neutral between drive and reverse. Do you remember that? Well, the NMRA made a feeble attempt to standardize DCC. But the mfgrs apparently think they have better ways of doing things. IMHO I don't see why they do! What is wrong with setting reasonable standards so that we, the poor people (and I refer to the majority of modellers) can purchase a command station and a decoder and expect them to work together. It's bad enough that the decoders are different, but now we have DCS from MTH and it is sole proprietary. Heck even the 3-railers have Lionel and MTH also. And all we have to do is: Refuse to buy MTH. And they will get the message. If their sales drop, who know what they might do? Maybe go away! This business of forcing us to purchase additional equipment to change CV's? Need a booster to change some. Sorry for my rant.
Morgan Bilbo, new to DCC


Re: Controlling HO DCC system MTH ?

Don Vollrath
 

The 'banner' of the NMRA governs only the DCC signaling interchange to the track and a few particular CVs for normal but minimal operation. From there each manufacturer is free to invent and define what the plethora of other possible CVs actually do and how. So it is not surprising that one needs to carefully read and understand the manual for each brand and type of decoder to determine how to get it to function like you want. Ditto with the variety of DCC control systems. Some are more versatile or limited than others. But your command station and programming method still needs to work in concert with the design of the decoder. DecoderPro exists to help make it somewhat convenient and sense of it all.

DonV


Re: Controlling HO DCC system MTH ?

Mark Cartwright <marcdecapri@...>
 

No
Apparently however - it is the other way around, with the ESU ECoS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJDefT8Udck

I discovered that some DCC Decoders will not fully function even on their own brand (Digitrax to Digitrax Zephyr vs Chief) as some CV's are interpreted differently, but could work effectively that is equally with the ESU ECoS.
====
Now it's  time to tell me this can't possibly be, as all DCC Systems created under the Banner of the NMRA were created equally so.
Q' Pla !
:)) Mark


Re: Controlling MTH DCS system

Richard Gagnon <richg_1998@...>
 

That has been a common discussinion for some time in the Trains.com forums. Not very compatible.

Rich




On Monday, May 27, 2019, 7:43 PM, Gary Chudzinski <chudgr@...> wrote:

I have an S gauge MTH F-3A/B set.  It has the latest DCS version The DCS system leaves a lot to be desired in terms of operating on my NCE DCC system Layout!  Many of the functions operate differently and often the locos do not move when first turned on  until I reinitiate the consist function, even though the audio and lights operate.  There is a significant incompatibility that I doubt will ever be resolved.  Some friends have stripped the DCS decoders, in favor of DCC decoders, from their HO and S locos.  MTH detailing, however, is very nice in both scales!
Gary Chudzinski



Re: Controlling MTH DCS system

Gary Chudzinski
 

I have an S gauge MTH F-3A/B set. It has the latest DCS version The DCS system leaves a lot to be desired in terms of operating on my NCE DCC system Layout! Many of the functions operate differently and often the locos do not move when first turned on until I reinitiate the consist function, even though the audio and lights operate. There is a significant incompatibility that I doubt will ever be resolved. Some friends have stripped the DCS decoders, in favor of DCC decoders, from their HO and S locos. MTH detailing, however, is very nice in both scales!
Gary Chudzinski


Re: Controlling HO DCC system

wirefordcc
 

The MTH DCS system cannot control DCC locomotives. 

Some MTH locomotives can be controlled either by MTH's DCS or DCC systems.  All the MTH locomotives I own are like that.

Allan Gartner
Wiring For DCC


Controlling HO DCC system

Lee Phillips
 

Can anyone tell me if you can control HO DCC using MTH PCS ?


Re: DCC Meters

Mark Gurries
 

On larger layout without a load, you will see the track voltage go up the further you get away from the DCC system or booster powering the track.

The is voltage ringing (spike) on the DCC waveform created by the layout wiring that confuses the meter into reading a higher voltage than what is actually there.

The use a of a ten scope is good in that one can visually ignore the leading edge voltage ringing (Spike) and focus on the flat portion of the DCC waveform for the reading.

The advantage of having a resistive or locomotive head lamp load is it consumes the voltage ringing/spike by absorbing it.  Your presented with a much cleaner reading.

To check for voltage drops in the wiring, you will need a large lamp load such as offered by an 12V automotive lamp.

On May 22, 2019, at 1:09 PM, Richard Gagnon via Groups.Io <richg_1998@...> wrote:

When I connected my Harbor Freight meters to the output of the Power Cab 
Had a loco on the track running. They all showed close to 13.6 vac. My Tek scope verified. I did the math conversion.
I figured whatever reading I got would be a bench mark as the loco was running fine and the system was.new
Rich



On Tuesday, May 21, 2019, 1:41 PM, Rop Honnor <robbie.honnor@...> wrote:

The accuracy of an AC volts reading when monitoring a DCC potential depends largely upon the sampling rate of your meter.

As stated DCC waveform is square format bi-polar not sinusoidal which is what an AC volts meter uses as its algorithm, therefore the higher the sampling frequency the more chance there is of an accurate DCC reading.

My three (cheapish) meters show a scatter of around +/- 5 volts measuring DCC on the AC volts scale as compared to the reading I see on my PicoScope set up for DCC.

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com




Re: How to set up locomotive

wirefordcc
 

Lloyd,

 

Do you have a Zephyr or a Chief?  (I assume since you had your system for a while, you don’t have an Evolution.)

 

You said you don’t know how to set up a locomotive on your system.  Do you know how to power up your system and use it?

 

Do you still have the manual?

 

Allan Gartner  WiringForDCC.com 

        

 


Re: How to set up locomotive

Lloyd Earnest <oldquaker71@...>
 

I have Digitrax


Re: How to set up locomotive

wirefordcc
 

LLoyd,

Who's DCC system do you have?

Allan


How to set up locomotive

Lloyd Earnest <oldquaker71@...>
 

I have had my DCC set up for a couple of years. For the past year I I have been unable to do anything with it because of a health problem. I have the engines set up but can not remember how to put the numbers in the controller to run the train 🚂.  Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank yo


Re: DCC Meters

Richard Gagnon <richg_1998@...>
 

When I connected my Harbor Freight meters to the output of the Power Cab 
Had a loco on the track running. They all showed close to 13.6 vac. My Tek scope verified. I did the math conversion.
I figured whatever reading I got would be a bench mark as the loco was running fine and the system was.new
Rich



On Tuesday, May 21, 2019, 1:41 PM, Rop Honnor <robbie.honnor@...> wrote:

The accuracy of an AC volts reading when monitoring a DCC potential depends largely upon the sampling rate of your meter.

As stated DCC waveform is square format bi-polar not sinusoidal which is what an AC volts meter uses as its algorithm, therefore the higher the sampling frequency the more chance there is of an accurate DCC reading.

My three (cheapish) meters show a scatter of around +/- 5 volts measuring DCC on the AC volts scale as compared to the reading I see on my PicoScope set up for DCC.


Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

George Galyon
 

You can contact me at redvdub1@...
G. T. Galyon


Re: DCC Meters

Don Vollrath
 

See http://wiringfordcc.com/track.htm#a4
Except for checking or adjusting the voltage output of a booster, the accuracy of any DCC volt meter reading is unimportant unless it is obtained at the actual section of track with a significant amount of current being drawn. The simple reason is that you are probably trying to look for and/or verify voltage drops... which occur only when current is being drawn. 'Open circuit' voltmeter readings are misleading with any ordinary meter due to the peculiar DCC voltage waveform that may be present. See http://wiringfordcc.com/dcc_waveforms.htm 

Use Allan's topical index at http://wiringfordcc.com/site_map.htm to find discussions and answers to many oft-repeated questions on this forum.
DonV


Re: DCC Meters

Rop Honnor
 

The accuracy of an AC volts reading when monitoring a DCC potential depends largely upon the sampling rate of your meter.

As stated DCC waveform is square format bi-polar not sinusoidal which is what an AC volts meter uses as its algorithm, therefore the higher the sampling frequency the more chance there is of an accurate DCC reading.

My three (cheapish) meters show a scatter of around +/- 5 volts measuring DCC on the AC volts scale as compared to the reading I see on my PicoScope set up for DCC.


Re: Rail joiners & PECO

Jennifer Lobo
 

I agree Scott. I use Peco Streamline code 100 track and rail joiners. Too tight is way better than too loose. I use a pair of long nosed pliers to push them on. I too file the ends...especially the inside of the rail where the burr stops the joiner from going on. I also squeeze the rail joiners twice with side cutters between the centre and the ends to make them even tighter.

The rule of thumb is:  Buy plenty of joiners as there will be wastage.

Regards Geoff Clarke OO gauge in Canada


On Tuesday, May 21, 2019, 8:06:35 p.m. EDT, Scott <scottmac99@...> wrote:


I've been wrestling with Peco OO joiners, but I would much rather they were too tight than too loose.  I file the ends of the rails where I cut them (best way to check if any burrs is to gently run your fingertip over the ends).  Then I use really solid gloves before pushing the two sections of track together.  [At my age, if I don't wear gloves for almost any sort of task, then I can usually virtually guarantee that I'll rip some sort of hole in my finger.]